posted 14 October 2007 09:09 AM EDT (US)
Hi all,
Preface
This is a guide to beating the best god in the game, known as Isis. You will be playing the god which is said to be best against Isis, known as Thor. That being said, Thor is not superior to Isis. There is no god in the game that would be at an advantage against Isis. Thor is just not as inferior to Isis as most other gods are.
The following describes a tactics that I have worked out over hundreds (if not thousands) of games against Isis. It is my personal tactics. I am not claiming that it is the only thing that can be done, but it is what works best for me, and I can really recommend it.
It especially is a tactics that does not rely on the Ragnarok + Flaming Weapons power. You can play that combo along with this tactics, but the tactics is designed to fight and defeat Isis in real combat. This especially means that the game will not be boring, because you will not try to FM asap in order to get your single shot Ragnarok, with which you will win or die trying. The tactics you are about to read allows to deal with all advantages that Isis has and still fight and defeat her with success. I have described it before in several threads, but here it is again in a compiled andhopefully comprehensive form.
Note that most of this guide can also be used against Ra, since from Thor's standpoint, Isis and Ra play similarly. The main difference is that from Ra you can expect roc drops, while Isis will usually come up with anc/ecl.
Archaic Age
You advance late for an ultra-heavy econ. Your goal is to FH quickly, for which you need a strong classical economy. For that reason, you make(in the following order if possible):
You may or may not start out making a second ulf. Making him means sacrificing a little speed in return for better scouting.
8 hunters with hunting dogs and pig sticker. Research Hand Axe as soon as you can spare the 120 food without lacking food for more vills.
6 Gatherers to wood, complete with a cart of their own. Research Pick Axe once you can spare the 120 wood without running out of houses or ox carts.
6 Dwarves to gold, complete with cart.
Build your temple defensively at your home base. This is imperative due to your late advance, but poses no real problem. You will grasp map control later.
Advance with Forseti for Hersirs that can counter the awesome Eggy myth units and ulfsarks that will make an excellent job against enemy elephants. You also get a Healing Spring, but do not cast it before heroic age unless the opponent attempts a barracks-based rush.
Start your armory during the advance. This way your ulfsark has something useful to do. You need the armory for the FH as wel las cheap Thor ups.
Classical Age
Noticing your late advance, some Isises may decide to make barracks units and rush you. However, Isis does not advance early either, and her classical units suck. If she does classical rush, she cannot go FH, so you engage her in classical battle, where your units are better. However, most Isises will go FH.
Make two or three longhouses near your temple (i.e. near your home base). This prepares production capacity in case of a rush while costing you only some wood, of which you have plenty thanks to your powerful economy. Do not use these longhouses yet unless you scout enemy barracks or barracks units. Keep your temple on aq hersirs and grasp any relics that you can get, preferably valuable ones. However, if you are not classical-rushed, then stop hersir production when you have 3 or 4 hersirs. You need the money for the heroic advance.
Only if you are classical-rushed: Make sure you have at least 3 longhouses and spam RC/TA. Use your armory to get cheap Thor ups. Normally, numbers are more important, but you already have the armory and excess resources thanks to your late advance. If you do not mess up, you can beat back the Isis rush.
The usual case, however, is that the Isis heads straight for FH, so that is what the rest of this guide focuses on.
Set one of your hersirs on guard order on the ox cart of your hunters, because you can be sure that Isis' free sphinx will be searching for them. You may also task your free troll with the same guard order, but one hersirs there is imperative.
With regard to your plentiful resources, the inclination is now great to grasp a second TC. Don't. It will cause you to reach heroic too late, and not getting hill forts and the Hall of Thanes upgrade in time. Consider it an unbreakable guideline not to take a TC before you got a hill fort. Also, do not make more than three longhouses before heroic age.
Instead, get Hall of Thanes (HoT) asap. It will make the difference against the overpowered enemy myth that you are sure to face. This includes sphinxes, scorpions, and of course anc/ecl.
Heroic Age
Advance to heroic age asap worshipping Bragi. As soon as you have started the advance, set your temple back on aq hersirs and manually make more hersirs in your longhouses! You were saving your resources for heroic, but now that you have paid for it, you need hersirs for the anc/ecl that is sure to come. Make sure you get HoT before anc/ecl occurs! See that you get 8 hersirs quickly. After that, set your longhouses to aq RC.
Often enough, you will find yourself being able to get to heroic even before Isis does. Once in heroic, immediately make a hill fort. This must be built forward, at a strategically important location from which you control a TC and at least one remote gold mine. You should endeavor to make a second hill fort near the first one asap afterwards.
Once you have 1-2 hill forts, you are free to take TCs, preferably starting with the one near your hill fort(s). Set your hill forts to aq huskarls! Do not make any jarls. They are overrated and lose even to Isis' myth units. In all cases where you would make jarls, use RC instead (use HoT hersirs to beat his myth. Unlike jarls, HoT hersirs can actually do the job.) All good Isises start out spamming chariots against you. RC alone will be too weak to beat those. Huskarls alone can be countered too easily with axemen. However, a mixture of RC from your longhouses, huskarls from your hill forts, and HoT hersirs against her myth is a very powerful army that Isis will have great difficulties dealing with. Note that RC have the same combat power as jarls, but are faster and better against chariots. Huskarls have the same combat power as ulfsarks, but are faster and better against chariots as well and can also fight non-chariot units while chariots are firing at them from the second row. Huskarls can also fight phants as long as those are low in number. Since elephants are expensive and train very slowly, no Isis can spam a lot of them quickly, not in early heroic age.
That being said, research Swine Array and Call of Valhalla asap in your longhouses. You want to be able to unleash powerful Forseti+Bragi ulfsarks once the Isis dedicates a considerable amount of pop to elephants. This is quite likely to happen when she sees you fight primarily with husks and RC. Do not be afraid of camels. These pretty much tie with RC and lose to huskies, so camels need not trigger a change in your unit composition.
She will likely mix in axemen when she sees your huskarls. Do not be impressed by that, but of course micro your huskies on her chariots. Use RC to fight the axemen. The more axemen you encounter, the more RC you use. Add longhouses when you can. You want her to dedicate pop in axemen, because axes are slow and crappy units that are only good against your infantry. Any pop invested in axemen is pop not invested in phants, chariots, and siege towers. Use your RC to take out any siege towers that you spot. Remember that RC get a fat bonus against siege.
If she is bringing a phant/axe mix, respond with ulfs/RC. Your Forseti up helps your ulfs survive against both while they kill the phants, and your RC are superior to the axemen and any priests that you see running around. Add as many battle boars as you can muster. They are good against everything, but especially against her buildings. If you run low on favor, make more HoT hersirs in your temple and counter her myth with them.
Avoid making any TA. All of your units are fast ones(even your hersirs), which is a huge advantage for you. TA would slow down your army movements considerably. You should be able to defeat any Eggy unit combination without TA. Against spears, use husks/ulfs/RC. Against axemen, use RC. Keep your armory busy until you have at least full bronze.
Place your healing spring near your forward hill forts. Optimal is a position where both hill forts and the nearby TC protect the spring. This is a location from which you control the map and where your wounded units can quickly get to. Now it would prove a fat mistake if you had placed your spring at your home longhouses earlier in the game. Make sure to use the spring as often as possible.
Mythic Age
From there, dominate the map, establish a trading route and advance to mythic age. Once your advance has begun, aq vills in all your TCs in preparation for ragnarok. Try to gain time so that you can make more vills and stockpile resources for titan gate and past-rag time with them. Research the gate before rag if possible. Make sure to get as many ups as possible. You should especially have full iron hack and pierce armor before rag. However, once you are being raided or losing ground due to the diminishing pop available to your military, cast ragnarok.
Right after casting ragnarok, make the titan gate if you managed to research it. Use your remaining ragnarockers to attack. Pick multiple targets for them (two or three). One target should be a rear TC of him that is likely to be undefended. The other heroes attack his front so he cannot move his army back to defend. Manually queue up several vills in all your TCs so the food needed for them is reserved. Set the rally point of the TCs to their adjacent farms, so your food income is automatically re-established when your pop drops back below the limit after ragging. You should have continuous gold income all the time thanks to your trading route.
When you are again making regular troops, make sure to get Sons of Sleipnir asap. With these you can practically disable his chariots and render them worthless. Next thing that you get are Baldr rams with engineers and draft horses. Use these to finish him off.
Example
All that theory is cool, but what does this tactics look like in a real game?
Here is a nice example that I played:http://freenet-homepage.de/Death/replays/Example_Game_Dap_strat_vs_Isis.rcx
One mistake that you should not copy is my low number of longhouses. I should have made considerably more in heroic age. Other than that, I think the example is pretty good. Oh, and the first 20 seconds were pretty crappy. Close your eyes until these are over.
Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
This is a guide to beating the best god in the game, known as Isis. You will be playing the god which is said to be best against Isis, known as Thor. That being said, Thor is not superior to Isis. There is no god in the game that would be at an advantage against Isis. Thor is just not as inferior to Isis as most other gods are.
The following describes a tactics that I have worked out over hundreds (if not thousands) of games against Isis. It is my personal tactics. I am not claiming that it is the only thing that can be done, but it is what works best for me, and I can really recommend it.
It especially is a tactics that does not rely on the Ragnarok + Flaming Weapons power. You can play that combo along with this tactics, but the tactics is designed to fight and defeat Isis in real combat. This especially means that the game will not be boring, because you will not try to FM asap in order to get your single shot Ragnarok, with which you will win or die trying. The tactics you are about to read allows to deal with all advantages that Isis has and still fight and defeat her with success. I have described it before in several threads, but here it is again in a compiled and
Note that most of this guide can also be used against Ra, since from Thor's standpoint, Isis and Ra play similarly. The main difference is that from Ra you can expect roc drops, while Isis will usually come up with anc/ecl.
You advance late for an ultra-heavy econ. Your goal is to FH quickly, for which you need a strong classical economy. For that reason, you make
Noticing your late advance, some Isises may decide to make barracks units and rush you. However, Isis does not advance early either, and her classical units suck. If she does classical rush, she cannot go FH, so you engage her in classical battle, where your units are better. However, most Isises will go FH.
The usual case, however, is that the Isis heads straight for FH, so that is what the rest of this guide focuses on.
If she is bringing a phant/axe mix, respond with ulfs/RC. Your Forseti up helps your ulfs survive against both while they kill the phants, and your RC are superior to the axemen and any priests that you see running around. Add as many battle boars as you can muster. They are good against everything, but especially against her buildings. If you run low on favor, make more HoT hersirs in your temple and counter her myth with them.
Avoid making any TA. All of your units are fast ones
All that theory is cool, but what does this tactics look like in a real game?
Here is a nice example that I played:
One mistake that you should not copy is my low number of longhouses. I should have made considerably more in heroic age. Other than that, I think the example is pretty good. Oh, and the first 20 seconds were pretty crappy. Close your eyes until these are over.
Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
