You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy and General Discussion
Moderated by Yeebaagooon, nottud

Hop to:    
loginhomeregisterhelprules
Bottom
Topic Subject: AoT Analysis
« Previous Page  1 2 3 ··· 4  Next Page »
posted 21 April 2008 08:47 AM EDT (US)   
Because it is x500 text I have skipped the -ly/mein/ein.





A basic understanding of the game’s mechanics is very important when you’re trying to improve. Whether it is analyzing your recorded games, other’s recorded games or developing a new strat, you will always need to have a basic understanding.

If you are an observant person (like me) you won’t be having too much problems with increasing your level of skill. If you are not an observant person (I won’t drop any names but I’m sure you can guess who) you will not increase in skill, or hit your skill cap very fast or just improve very, very slowly. Sadly enough, there is little you can do to increase your ‘observing skill’ as this is mostly decided at your birth. Some people grow up to be physic geniuses, others learn 6 languages, and some become professional soccer players and whatnot.

However, there is a difference. If you are given a Math’s test and somebody whispers you all the answers you can ace the test (assuming they are correct). If you could freeze time and exactly tell a soccer player what he has to do in a game and then unfreeze time, he might not be able to do it. You are giving him the correct information. If he is unable to use the input (for example, you tell him that he must run past player X and pass the ball to player Y but he cannot do this because of fatigue/him being slower/whatever) then the answer is not of much use.

However, in the Math’s test you only need to write down the answer. If you are able to write down numbers you are able to use all the input you are given. Now I ask you, can you use a mouse and a keyboard? If yes, you can use all the input I am about to give you that is related to AoT. Of course, if you do not know basic things (e.g. if I say ‘go FH’ and you do not know how to FH (which can be compared to the Math’s test where I say ‘the answer is 682’ and you reply with ‘I do not know how to write down 682’)) you have bigger fundamental problems that can be solved without advice, such as watching recs or usually just playing the game a lot. Unless you have Down’s syndrome or something you should be able to develop these skills.

If I say ‘go FH’ and you reply ‘I can’t’ this can also be compared to soccer, where I go ‘run forward’ and get an answer like ‘I don’t know how to run’.

If you are somehow unable to learn basic things in AoT, please stop reading right now and play something that requires less brainpower, such as Cindy’s Magical Dollhouse.


There are multiple ways of playing this game. Or, which is probably a better phrase, multiple ways of winning the game.

1)Raiding
2)Attacking/Damaging
3)Booming

This might be a little confusing. How can you win a game by only booming (save Wonder)? Surely you have to use those resources eventually, thus attacking… Right? Yes. So winning the game always has to be a combination if you boom, right? Technically, yes. However, if you are brutally outbooming your opponent he has already lost (because of the inevitable win). Look at it this way, you have erased your opponent from the map and he hides a villager in the corner. Technically, he has not lost yet. However, it is safe to say that he has lost. If your opponent masses an army and neglects economy upgrades whereas you get them ASAP and he is not able to use his army effectively (whether this is because you have fortified, the map is in your advantage, your resources cannot be reached by him without taking massive losses or just because he doesn’t use his army) he will most likely lose. If he fails to use his army effectively early on his only hope is to prevent you from getting your second gold mine.

Raiding is essentially the reverse. If I luck out and find my opponent’s hunting party early on and manage to kill 7 villagers he will most likely resign. Because raiding won you the game? Yes, but technically no, him pushing the resign button made you win. But once again, what happened is that he foresaw himself getting beaten. So it is safe to say that the raid won you the game.

Another example is getting goldstarved, especially in classical when you cannot use the market for trading. Even though your base is still intact, you probably have an (inferior) army, you having lots of villagers etc., you will resign because you realize that he can keep producing military units whereas you cannot (save MUs).

Now how you play is up to you. There are different styles. Pick one you like. Most people love games packed with lots of action and raiding. Believe it or not, but if I had the chance I’d wall up, spam towers and Titan/Wonder myself to a win every single game. You might not see the fun in this and/or think it is really boring. You might be like me and think this is fun. These are called preferences. If everyone were the same it would be a very boring world. Or maybe it would not be boring if everyone liked everyone being the same. What if everyone played Thor and there was only 1 map? Would that be boring? Maybe. I think that would be boring. People have preferences. Deal with it. I cannot count the number of times I have been told that I should play Sim City when I start flooding Migdols all over the map, or have been called lame. I cannot count the number of times I have called someone a lamer or rag noob, either. The difference is that I use it to vent, not to rationalize my loss. Unless the map or match-up was somehow really unbalanced (an example is me not having a 3rd TC whereas the opponent does), I just got beaten by a legitimate strategy whether I like it or not. Usually, you can even decrease the gap of imbalance. In my example of not having a 3rd TC, I could rush and fast claim my opponent’s 3rd TC, making it a 3v2 TC situation. There are also gaps that cannot be decreased, for example your opponent having 10x your hunt in Archaic and having it hunted before you have reached Classical or even scouted it.

All in all I think this game is fairly balanced. Yes, there are match-ups that are very, very hard to beat at the same skill level at higher rates. Yes, some maps favor certain gods. No, Ra cannot counter Flaming Weapons effectively. No, your Locust Swarm will not always wipe out complete gathering parties and no, ES will not nerf mercenaries. Go to the store, buy a box of straws and suck it up. Life will not always be fair, neither will AoT.

Now we can move on to my tactics. What I do is basically waiting for my opponent to make a mistake, while trying to make as little as possible myself. Not all mistakes have to be game deciding, however. For example, my opponent can be Thor and make the following mistakes in Archaic:

  • He has a total of 4 seconds idle TC time because he did not queue a villager fast enough after he created a dwarf and had some idle TC time because he did not have enough food to up Classical.
  • He did not scout the map correctly.
  • He built his Temple in farm space (farm space is the space around your TC where you make farms).
  • Built his first house somewhere on the map where he cannot prevent it from being destroyed by my free Sphinx.
  • Cast his Dwarven Mine incorrectly, making 1 dwarf walk around the other dwarf when dropping off.
  • Had unnecessary long drop-off distance to Ox Cart at his start hunt due to bad micro

    These, although many, are very minor mistakes and will not affect the game much. However, as soon as these things start to add up, they will. I try not to make such mistakes to give me an innate advantage.

    Of course, he might make grave mistakes too, such as running RC through a crennelated base and losing tons of RC while doing 0 damage, or fighting a losing battle. This is the easiest way to boost your rate. It does not require you to think of a counterstrat, to think of what to do, is not map/civ/match-up dependant and can be used over and over without fail. Some examples:

  • Placing your farms correctly. Your farms will always want to ‘touch’ a TC or granary. If you are Norse, you might place a few farms next to farms that are next to your TC, as your villagers cannot build TCs/granaries and Ox Carts are generally not worth it, but if you are Greek you have no excuse. Farms are 70 wood and granaries are 50 wood and it is more beneficial to spend 50 wood on a granary to decrease drop-off distance for multiple farms than spending 70 wood on another farm. You also save a villager. If you are Egyptian you have no excuses either as granaries are free. The longer the game goes on, the more a bad placed farm will hurt you.

  • Correct mining camp placement. Unlike wood, you’ll be mining from the same location for a while. Don’t think that because you can squeeze villagers inbetween the mine and camp it is placed correctly. You have to take the long side for your first camp and for the second camp you will have to take the direction from where the vills are being sent from into account.

  • Re-docking. Fish like short drop-off distances too.

    Now we have something that helps us in general it would also be helpful if we had something that we could use against specific gods. Usually, you link the god with your opinion. E.g. ‘Isis is so lame’. I think it is better to link to the units (or GPs/god bonuses) first and later when you have more skill you can always link back to the god. So you link to 2 things:

  • Units
  • GPs and god bonuses

    You might play Loki and think Zeus is really strong/lame/op vs Loki. If you say ‘Zeus owns Loki’ you are linking to the god. You will want to link to the other 2 things. How do we do this? Just ask yourself what makes him own you. You will probably answer with ‘hop/tox’ or ‘restoration’ or whatever. So your phrase goes from ‘Zeus is OP’ to ‘hop/tox and restoration are OP’. Because we are now linking to units, I will analyze most common units here.

    Turma

    The Turma does not really have a counter, except for Centaurs (and even those can die to shockwave or hero turmae). Yes, in a pop-equivalent editor test the turmae lose to a lot of units. A real game is not an editor battle. We have 3 concepts:

  • Beat, army will win vs other army (Hoplite vs Turma, RC vs Cheiroballista)
  • Wall, army can run from other army without taking much damage (Turma vs Hoplite)
  • Lose, army loses and cannot run without taking severe damage (Cheiroballista vs RC)

    In a battle, it is a combination of 2 of the above. Turma wall or beat everything.

    VS RC: Turma runs to safety and takes little damage
    Hippikon: See above, except that Hippikon is slower
    Hoplite: See above, except that Turma takes 0 damage

    So ranged units would be better vs the Turma, if not for a few things:

  • Turma gets bonus damage vs all ranged classical units that are not MUs, heroes or ships and beat them.
  • They outspeed them too
  • Oranos Turma move so fast that they cannot be hit by projectiles

    So the Turma will kill you or run away. How do we deal with this unit? By forcing them to fight your (superior) army. For example, a few ways of forcing them to fight your army:

  • You attack the base and he is forced to fight or lose his everything
  • You trick him into thinking that he can win the battle
  • You do something innovative such freezing his army (Skadi’s GP) and blocking escape routes or whatever

    So this is how you deal with only Turmae. Usually, however, they will be accompanied by Murmilloes. How do you deal with this? You will need an army that can deal with both units, even if the combination beats Turma/Murmillo. Hop/Tox is a bad choice because Tox do not beat Turma (they don’t even wall them either). Hoplites would be a good choice as they deal with both. Hippikons would be a good choice if you have more upgrades. Hip/Hop would be a good choice (in music too). For Thor and Odin it is much trickier because they need Hersir to deal with the Prometheans which cannot deal with either Murmillo or Turma. As Norse you will either need to outproduce Atlanteans or defend till heroic where you can win a battle with the GP.

    Roc is following soon.
  • Replies:
    posted 21 April 2008 08:48 AM EDT (US)     1 / 107  
    reserved for Roc
    posted 21 April 2008 09:52 AM EDT (US)     2 / 107  
    all i can say is well done... great guide and i found this especially funny
    Had unnecessary long drop-off distance to Ox Cart at his start hunt due to bad micro
    due to me always telling myself that i should build one but I'm far to lazy so i just keep my villagers fit.

    Nice flow without all the gibberish of the ly/mein/ein ... I'd say this should be in the strategy. section

    9/10

    Comments on what could be better: the whole math test idea was funny and began to be repetitive due to the soccer example along side it.

    ESO AOE 3: GL_Chewy
    ESO AOM: R_U_Zues, R_U_Rated
    Zues:no multiplayer.....
    http://vviscon.googlepages.com/ageofmythologycomics
    (my age of mythology comics) updated soon
    R_U_Zues (i think not)
    posted 21 April 2008 10:00 AM EDT (US)     3 / 107  
    11
    posted 21 April 2008 10:07 AM EDT (US)     4 / 107  
    Ok, maybe you're not an arrogant player...
    you're a very good arragont player

    I'm only joking. I'm sure your a great guy.
    Anyway, it's a nice post. I'm so glad you used plain English!

    [This message has been edited by Jackpb (edited 04-21-2008 @ 10:26 AM).]

    posted 21 April 2008 10:23 AM EDT (US)     5 / 107  
    You're*

    Irn00b this is top quality as always. Thanks for the help. Can you make a flipside so that if I'm attacking hip/hop then I know what to do? Thanks.

    If you're going through hell, keep going.
    -Winston Churchill
    posted 21 April 2008 10:25 AM EDT (US)     6 / 107  
    Ok, maybe your not an arragont player...
    your a very good arragont player
    True (although arrogant )

    But he's also a very talented player willing to share his insight here, which I find quite useful to this forum, as most users are still on the learning curve (no offense to anyone).

    Nice guide (I'm looking forward to look at the Roc guide, I have quite some trouble with it in Alfheim with norse 'til Mythic), but I think the one you made @ Aotp was slightly more useful.

    "He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
    J. Heller

    [This message has been edited by Lettucefolk_ (edited 04-21-2008 @ 10:26 AM).]

    posted 21 April 2008 10:33 AM EDT (US)     7 / 107  
    Now I ask you, can you use a mouse and a keyboard? If yes, you can use all the input I am about to give you that is related to AoT.
    Depends. There is one aspect both in mouse/keyboard usage and in a maths test that you totally neglect: Speed.

  • When you write a maths test at school, or do an intelligence test of some sort, the question is not only whether you are basically capable of answering the questions. The second aspect is whether you are able to do it quickly enough. Every pupil (or former pupil) remembers mathematical questions that he could definitely have solved, but he took too much time there or on a preceding question, so he ran out of time, and the teacher took the paper from him.

  • With keyboard and mouse, all of us can pretty much do everything that can be done with these devices. However, speed plays an even greater role here. Theoretically, you can play the whole game only with the mouse. There are very few tasks that really require use of the keyboard. But using both the mouse and the keyboard makes you much faster, and that does make a difference.

    When you point out how farms should be placed, it is basically obvious that a closest-to-TC-or-granary approach is better than a carelessly-spread-around-the-TC one. However, placing your farms in a careful manner requires more mouse time than just blindly hitting the button in the vicinity of your TC.

    Nonetheless you can be so fast with the mouse that it does not make that much of a difference, so that the benefits preponderate. In fact I believe it does, which is why I agree that farms should be placed carefully.

    However, I can name a different example where IMHO it pays going an economically less efficient way in order to save mouse micro time. Imagine a situation when you have some wood reserves. You have just finished a minor battle that required your attention, and now quickly want to take 5 vills off wood and make farms with them. You could:

  • Select one of them and order a farm. Then select the next one and order a farm and so on. You may be able to further optimize by giving all of them a move order to the target TC, and then issuing the single commands while they are travelling there.

  • Select all of them at once, and then order all 5 farms consecutively holding down SHIFT. This will make all of them start making the first farm. One of them will stay on the completed farm, while the others move on to the next farm and so on.

    The second approach is economically less efficient, because having multiple builders on a single construction site is always less efficient than having one builder per site. Your farms will reach full operationality later.

    Nonetheless the second approach is often better, because it can be ordered in virtually no time. When you already have 15 farmers in heroic age and want to increase their number to 20, it makes little difference whether the full income of the new farms begins 10 seconds earlier or later. However, selecting and microing every single farmer individually costs you a lot of mouse micro time, which you could have used to optimize your econ elsewhere (make closer lumbercamp, move cart closer), or to micro your troops.

    Furthermore, while all of us can basically use a mouse and issue AoM orders with it, not all of us are capable of managing two or even three attacks simultaneously. Or to keep their home econ halfway managed while still not stinking at battle micro. This is an important factor that plays a great role in determining overall skill, and it cannot be learned. Micro speed can be trained, but only to a limited extent. Not everyone can run as fast as the world #1 runner, no matter how much practice. Same with micro speed. It is a physical ability, and not everyone can train himself to mouse-micro as fast as the ladder top 10.

    Non-physical optimizations of micro speed are possible only by using the available micro potential economically, as just described by the farm-building example.

    Hell, even thinking speed is a physical ability. Pretty much everyone who can read and write can also sort 5 words in alphabetical order. But not everyone can do it equally fast. Training can help to improve, but some are born as slow thinkers and will never become as fast as those who are gifted with speed of thought.

    The other aspect that varies from human to human is assessment skill. You already mentioned this in the anti-turma battle when you suggested luring the enemy into a battle that he thinks he can win when in fact he cannot. Or so you think, because when in the end he does win that battle, then his assessment was better, and defeat is yours.

    Being able to assess stuff is IMHO the most important skill besides micro speed. Do I have enough vills on wood? Which unit combo counters his troops best? Where will he likely want to mine next? Why did he construct a fortress at that seemingly unimportant location? Is my army strong enough to beat his units in this battle?

    All the theory that we do in this forum basically targets at improving assessment capabilities. But these are also a matter of talent, of intelligence. Unless you are braindead you can always learn sheer facts by heart, such as attack values and bonuses against certain unit types. But that alone will not suffice. You also need to be able to combine the countless factors of a given situation into an appropiate assessment, and do so quickly enough. This may even involve psychogical abilites when you try to guess the enemy plan and next move.

    You can teach pretty much everyone to add simple numbers. But not everyone has what it takes to learn creating mathematical proofs, even if you supply him with all the information required to create them.

    That being said, learning the raw data is important. The best mental assessment skills are useless without raw data to base the assessment on. When you do not know that a huskarl is stronger than a toxote, and how much, you can be Einstein and still will never be able to tell whether a given huskarl army will win vs a given toxote army. Learning the data is not wasted time. It is not sufficient for good assessment, but it is necessary.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • posted 21 April 2008 01:25 PM EDT (US)     8 / 107  
    When you write a maths test at school, or do an intelligence test of some sort, the question is not only whether you are basically capable of answering the questions. The second aspect is whether you are able to do it quickly enough. Every pupil (or former pupil) remembers mathematical questions that he could definitely have solved, but he took too much time there or on a preceding question, so he ran out of time, and the teacher took the paper from him.
    one should not assume that others have ahd the same experiences as them
    a huge wall of text
    while everything you said may or may not be true it is entirely off topic. He stated that the input he was going to give could be acomplished with basic use of a keyboard and mouse, and it can. Nothing in his post has anything to do with innate physical ability to think, which, by the way, can be trained
    Learning the data is not wasted time. It is not sufficient for good assessment, but it is necessary.
    take this for example, you seem to be defending your arguement from imaginary attackers. This is superfluous and an eyesore
    posted 21 April 2008 05:08 PM EDT (US)     9 / 107  
    one should not assume that others have ahd the same experiences as them
    Has the assumption yet been made?
    while everything you said may or may not be true it is entirely off topic
    As far as I can see, the discussion here is primarily about improving one's skill at AoT, and I have found that DeathAndPain and i r n00b complement each other quite well. They offer two different, but valid, assessments that can be combined as one sees fit. They may not agree on the validity of their points, and that's their preference. Then, it is the preference of the player reading to decide what they'd like to combine and make use of.
    Nothing in his post has anything to do with innate physical ability to think, which, by the way, can be trained
    The analysis assumes that you have the physical ability to think and process what is being discussed, but this is addressed, so...

    And yes, thinking can theoretically be trained. So can anything else. The effectiveness of the training is what is the important part. The average person could probably comprehend the majority of what is being discussed here if they had a background with the game. However, to the extent that a person could actually train themselves to think about multiple things at once and implement their learnings is what is in question.
    take this for example, you seem to be defending your arguement from imaginary attackers. This is superfluous and an eyesore
    It is a qualification, a citing of evidence to attempt to persuade readers to take a look at what is being offered. It can also be understood that DaP expects an argument from i r n00b, several people probably see that coming.

    Beyond that, it was a good read, it will doubtlessly be useful to many people. I'll induct it into the guides archive come the 25th.

    posted 21 April 2008 05:48 PM EDT (US)     10 / 107  
    Beyond that, it was a good read, it will doubtlessly be useful to many people. I'll induct it into the guides archive come the 25th.
    congrats 1 week or so back and this is what happens??? AGAIN AGAIN!!!!!

    ESO AOE 3: GL_Chewy
    ESO AOM: R_U_Zues, R_U_Rated
    Zues:no multiplayer.....
    http://vviscon.googlepages.com/ageofmythologycomics
    (my age of mythology comics) updated soon
    R_U_Zues (i think not)
    posted 21 April 2008 05:53 PM EDT (US)     11 / 107  
    congrats 1 week or so back and this is what happens??? AGAIN AGAIN!!!!!
    Do not forget that Shanks13 is the one who decided to give me another chance and invested his time into getting me unbanned byl mailing with FMT and who-not repetivelyl. He should get some credit.
    posted 21 April 2008 05:56 PM EDT (US)     12 / 107  
    Not the place to be discussing moderation decisions. E-mail me or one of my superiors if you have a concern.

    posted 21 April 2008 07:15 PM EDT (US)     13 / 107  
    So under what situations would you say people just resign? I've had it happen two games in a row now, it's sub-1600, but I find it annoying since I'm not that great and I'm tired of falling to the point where I beat the hell out of whoever I play, having them resign just because I advanced first. Then, I get shuttled back up to 1600 and I repeat the process. Rather annoying.

    Actually, to rephrase that, how much of a difference do actions in archaic age really make? I realize that a lot of major mistakes will cost the game, and preparing to use a bad strategy will cost the game, but does it really matter if I go two TCs in archaic versus Zeus on Watering Hole? The guy was 1570, I expected him to try to hang in, but he just quit as soon as I advanced about thirty seconds behind him with two TCs. I hadn't even started military production when he quit.

    [This message has been edited by Shanks13 (edited 04-21-2008 @ 07:17 PM).]

    posted 22 April 2008 03:09 AM EDT (US)     14 / 107  
    He may have had a look at your score.

    But I fail to see how your latest reply fits into this thread. Are you sure you posted in the right thread?
    He stated that the input he was going to give could be acomplished with basic use of a keyboard and mouse, and it can. Nothing in his post has anything to do with innate physical ability to think, which, by the way, can be trained
    It does. This is related to a basic disagreement between i r n00b and me, which already became obvious in other threads.

    i r n00b believes that your skill/rr should be pretty much proportional to your experience/the time that you have been playing the game. If it is not, he assumes that there is some sort of learning blockade in your mindset. I understand that this is the reason why he described the difference between an olympic runner and having to answer questions in a test. Olympic runners are limited by the physics of their body, which does not allow for the same performance for every single human, no matter how much you practice. Meanwhile, if you know the right answers in a test, everyone can write them down, thereby performing optimally. Since everyone can handle a mouse and keyboard, i r n00b deducted that AoM is the latter case, where you just have to know your stuff to be elite.

    I contradicted that and pointed out that there are major aspects of AoM player skill that are physical and therefore have a genetical upper limit which varies from human to human. Once you have reached that limit, you cannot improve any further. He also refuses to acknowledge that daily condition plays a major role, and that tiredly playing in the evening after a long work day puts you at a major disadvantage if your opponent is living in a different time zone and has just gotten up on a holiday, having slept well and being ready for action. Nonetheless playing rated in the evening can still be fun. You just should not expect your rating to be anywhere near your potential when you do.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
    posted 22 April 2008 05:49 AM EDT (US)     15 / 107  
    but that is the ratio of time playing:skill

    even if you keep the initial 2 villies the whole game as all your people you learn things such as make more villies.

    ESO AOE 3: GL_Chewy
    ESO AOM: R_U_Zues, R_U_Rated
    Zues:no multiplayer.....
    http://vviscon.googlepages.com/ageofmythologycomics
    (my age of mythology comics) updated soon
    R_U_Zues (i think not)
    posted 22 April 2008 06:23 AM EDT (US)     16 / 107  
    First of all:
    I have skipped the -ly/mein/ein.
    *phew* Thank God ^^

    Good guide... you have a really unique way to express your concepts brilliantly simple. (Optional: out of interest, do you go to uni/have a job? If so what course/job?)
    Sadly enough, there is little you can do to increase your ‘observing skill’ as this is mostly decided at your birth.
    And what is the authority article you have sourced this from...

    i r n00b believes that your skill/rr should be pretty much proportional to your experience/the time that you have been playing the game... I... pointed out that there are major aspects of AoM player skill that are physical and therefore have a genetical upper limit which varies from human to human.
    Doesn't the above i r n00b quote imply what you have said?

    Anyway, I'd love to hear how genetics significantly inhibits one from being good at AOM (of course, excluding anyone with intellectual disability)

    Rated on how enjoyable this was to read: 11/10
    On structure: 9/10 a little messy
    On content: 9/10 only because it is very broad.. but I suppose broad isn't necessarily bad. (Also you like to go on tangents sometimes )

    GJ ^^

    "The next turn I attacked those that had been attatched, fiendishly fracturing the friendly faction fraction"
    -Wartrain.

    "Why not do the exciting thing and sit back, boom to a rag and use flaming weapons? - Who would have thought a Thor player could show this level of innovation?"
    -Vagabond Tom.

    [This message has been edited by TTK_GeneralNoob (edited 04-22-2008 @ 06:25 AM).]

    posted 22 April 2008 08:44 AM EDT (US)     17 / 107  
    best guide aomh has seen in a long time tbh.

    boo why dont you come on vb anymore? and you never replied to my pm. wb there.

    www.vbclan.net - Aussie/Kiwi AoT and AoE3 clan
    posted 22 April 2008 08:51 AM EDT (US)     18 / 107  
    (Optional: out of interest, do you go to uni/have a job? If so what course/job?)
    He has no job and does not go to Uni. He is a bum.

    Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
    Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
    There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
    But you can't take the sky from me...
    posted 22 April 2008 09:14 AM EDT (US)     19 / 107  
    (Optional: out of interest, do you go to uni/have a job? If so what course/job?)
    He has no job and does not go to Uni. He is a bum.
    lie

    I do have ein ''''''job'''''' but I doubt I'm allowed to discuss it here (it is not drug dealing btw).
    posted 22 April 2008 09:18 AM EDT (US)     20 / 107  
    lol...

    I'm thinking something government related...well, either that or a porn star.

    Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
    I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
    Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
    There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
    But you can't take the sky from me...
    posted 22 April 2008 09:21 AM EDT (US)     21 / 107  
    Government related.

    Mein penis is too small <_<

    (11111)
    posted 22 April 2008 02:10 PM EDT (US)     22 / 107  
    Lorenzos awesomez computer should have made the a lil obvious.




    +

    (Small penis 11111)[not something to be proud of]

    "True, I think would wear a dress for a day if ESO could make a patch to stop cheating, but I'll drink to anyone that takes AoM over that crappy game play of AoE III. Its like every civ is ATTY, its a disgusting game" -WNxDullahan
    posted 22 April 2008 09:30 PM EDT (US)     23 / 107  
    unless its extremely wide (some girls like it)

    or hes an extreme government hacker.... nah i bet he just fills out surveys and makes 4.8k a year while living with parents.

    ESO AOE 3: GL_Chewy
    ESO AOM: R_U_Zues, R_U_Rated
    Zues:no multiplayer.....
    http://vviscon.googlepages.com/ageofmythologycomics
    (my age of mythology comics) updated soon
    R_U_Zues (i think not)
    posted 23 April 2008 04:11 AM EDT (US)     24 / 107  
    but that is the ratio of time playing:skill

    even if you keep the initial 2 villies the whole game as all your people you learn things such as make more villies.
    I never said that gaining experience was not possible or did not make a difference in AoM. But there is an upper limit to how far this can take you, known as your potential. And this potential varies from human to human based on how gifted you are.
    Sadly enough, there is little you can do to increase your ‘observing skill’ as this is mostly decided at your birth.
    Doesn't the above i r n00b quote imply what you have said?
    Nope. It is a different approach at explaining why people's ratings are limited. In fact I do agree that it is also valid, although it is much more influenced by general early-life education and therefore only partly determined at birth time.

    But by stating this, i r n00b basically says that many people have limited learning capabilities, because you learn by observation, and when you are not capable of constructively observing and drawing valid conclusions, then you cannot learn. IMHO this is indeed true, and it is a major reason why some people, even though being physically fast, never exceed a certain overall rating. Often this is also related with being a scrub, because scrubs have axioms how the game should be played, preventing them from unbiasedly observing how good players do it and drawing the conclusion that their approach is wrong and needs to be revamped.

    Effectively, i r n00b's valid point means that people with limited observation capabilities have a limited learning curve and will therefore never play the game as smartly as they could if they had really understood it.

    But i r n00b makes the mistake to assume that this is the only aspect that limits player potential. He neglects the physical aspect of it, which is determined by:

  • Your current condition (exhaustion, tiredness, alcohol, drugs, mood)
  • Your genes
  • Your age

    And that is what I focussed my argumentation on.
    Anyway, I'd love to hear how genetics significantly inhibits one from being good at AOM (of course, excluding anyone with intellectual disability)
    I am not a medical professor, but it is more than obvious that talents differ. Some people can quickly combine information and have the ability to control mouse and keyboard at lightning speed, while others just are slow thinkers that slowly do their mouse clicks and after every command stop a few seconds to deliberate what they should do next. Training can make those better, but if you are not totally inept at observing the humans that surround you, it should be obvious to you that their potential is not the same.

    This can also be illustrated by world elite chess or snooker players. There is no such rule that the one that practices most will automatically become #1. To the contrary: there are some who can afford practicing significantly less and still be world elite, just because they have it in their blood.

    Note that the idea of all humans being born equal sounds both modern and noble, but it is most obviously wrong. Many people blame all differences on education and social surrounding because they submit to the axiom that all humans must be equal, although the contrary is clearly visible everywhere if you are prepared to open your eyes.

    From an ethical standpoint it is valid to say that all humans are born equal in value. But they are most obviously not equal, and neither are their abilities. The problem is that even discussing this will usually make you be called a "racist", which is why it is pretty much a modern taboo. It must not be that women are less intelligent than men, or blacks are stronger but less smart than white guys.

    But what if it is anyway? What if mother nature cares crap about our ethical concerns? I know of no study that had proven either of the above affirmations, but I know of no study that had disproven any of them either. When you resort to plausibility, the validity of both is well imaginable:

  • It is a proven fact that men's brains are larger. (all of this is meant "in average". Of course you can find a particular woman that has a larger brain/is stronger/is smarter/is taller/is whatever than a particular man)

  • Most blacks in the USA have slave ancestors. These were transported from Africa to America in slave ships under the most horrible circumstances imaginable. Only the hardiest survived this journey, which can well be considered a form of radical genetical selection (only the best-adapted survive). However, while the white farmers wanted strong workers, they were not interested in smart, intellectual slaves which might pose a threat. I can easily imagine that such slaves were killed with priority - so that they could no longer reproduce.

    Of course the above is but wild speculation. It may or may not be true. My sole point is that humans are not genetically equal just because our modern ideas of fairness would like them to be. They are the way they are. And their physical body does play a role when it comes to AoM performance as well.
    I do have ein ''''''job'''''' but I doubt I'm allowed to discuss it here (it is not drug dealing btw).
    Insider trading would be something that I could imagine in this context.

    Darkness is a state of mind
    Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
    Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
  • posted 23 April 2008 08:53 AM EDT (US)     25 / 107  
    Insider trading would be something that I could imagine in this context.
    Yeh that happens everyl now and then but usualyl it is something different. Also, I myself am not ein insider of anything so different measures need to be taken to gain information.
    or hes an extreme government hacker....
    I do that too, but not to the extent of being able to hack 99.9999% of the things that are government related, plus most people in public places are trained to identifyl ways of ghost computer disabling/dodging or XXS (cross site scripting). Or at least should be trained, because whenever I am on the comp at the libraryl they are barelyl able to repair their search engine (if you inject ein code in it that can be simplyl solved byl something that is not rebooting, e.g. changing the securityl or allow settings), which is ein prettyl good indicator of their identifying capabilities when it comes to hacking. Of course this test should onyl be used with men, with women it would be a waste of time because they cannot identifyl anything if their life was depending on it (and I'm not trying to spray around with misogynyl here).

    No matter how much I like talking about this (mainlyl because I can go 'o look how smartz i amz and outsmartz all government11') I don't rlyl think this is allowed, so I'll stop here11
    posted 23 April 2008 09:11 AM EDT (US)     26 / 107  
    No matter how much I like talking about this (mainlyl because I can go 'o look how smartz i amz and outsmartz all government11') I don't rlyl think this is allowed, so I'll stop here11
    on topic to this current discussion why at a library??? I'd hate to have you in my town lol

    back to the AoT Analysis whats the key facts to atty??? (like trade route is ESSENTIAL )

    ESO AOE 3: GL_Chewy
    ESO AOM: R_U_Zues, R_U_Rated
    Zues:no multiplayer.....
    http://vviscon.googlepages.com/ageofmythologycomics
    (my age of mythology comics) updated soon
    R_U_Zues (i think not)
    posted 23 April 2008 09:15 AM EDT (US)     27 / 107  
    on topic to this current discussion why at a library??? I'd hate to have you in my town lol
    Public place. Of course you will want to connect to something like India or Poland or Honduras first but when they trace you it is ein public place.

    (note at staff: I am not discussing how to do it)
    posted 23 April 2008 09:44 AM EDT (US)     28 / 107  
    How about less self-boasting, more useful writing, aka, the Roc guide?

    "He had decided to live forever or die in the attempt."
    J. Heller
    posted 01 May 2008 07:24 PM EDT (US)     29 / 107  
    And the 3rd guide in the trilogy, 'ein brutal isis guide'

    "True, I think would wear a dress for a day if ESO could make a patch to stop cheating, but I'll drink to anyone that takes AoM over that crappy game play of AoE III. Its like every civ is ATTY, its a disgusting game" -WNxDullahan
    posted 03 May 2008 02:01 PM EDT (US)     30 / 107  
    I has the Roc stuff on paper but I am too lazyl to type out11
    « Previous Page  1 2 3 ··· 4  Next Page »
    Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy and General Discussion » AoT Analysis
    Top
    You must be logged in to post messages.
    Please login or register
    Hop to:    
    Age of Mythology Heaven | HeavenGames