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Topic Subject: New Unit Ranking System
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posted 12 December 2011 02:06 AM EDT (US)   

Sagacious' Unit Ranking System

The purpose of this post is to set up a standardized system for ranking military units based upon their comparative performance in combat. Because this is a work in progress, much of the information presented in this post is subject to revision.

You will require a reference for unit statistics in order to make use of the various equations presented in this post. Although most online sources are now outdated (their statistics derive from versions prior to 1.03), some are still somewhat reliable, such as the one found here.

Period of One Killing Cycle

The greatest and worst aspect of Age of Mythology is the strategic depth of its game play. Although it requires players to think strategically, its depth and complexity can often prevent them from making informed decisions. This is especially true in the case of units, which are extremely diverse, and consequently, difficult to compare and contrast. However, although the properties of each unit can vary widely from one another, you will find that the ultimate measure of a military unit's value is its performance in combat – its killing speed. As you will soon see, a unit's killing speed is a reflection of almost every attribute it possesses.

How long would it take for unit A to kill unit B?

The equation below can be used to calculate the time taken for unit A to kill unit B.

h2
p1=
(100% – a2) (d1 (100% + m1))

Where:

a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
p1=The period of one killing cycle for unit A

It should be noted that this equation does not account for shortcomings in range, nor does it account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100%. As a result, this equation should only be used if unit A's range is greater than or equal to that of unit B and unit A has an accuracy of 100%. Also, it is essential that unit B's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by unit A. Lastly, this equation always assumes that unit A initiates the first attack in the sequence of attacks exchanged between the two units.

I will illustrate the proper use of this equation in the following example, where I will use it to calculate how long it would take for one Hoplite (unit A) to kill another Hoplite (unit B). This scenario is illustrated in the image below.


Hoplites possess 115 HP, which means that they can sustain 115 damage before dying. In order to discern how long it would take for one Hoplite (Hoplite A) to kill another Hoplite (Hoplite B), you need to divide the amount of damage that Hoplite B can sustain (115 damage) by the amount that Hoplite A inflicts every second (8 damage/second), as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p1=
(100% – a2) (8 damage/second (100% + m1))

However, before dividing, you must account for any modifiers to the damage that Hoplite A inflicts.

Ask yourself the following questions:
  • Do Hoplites receive a bonus to the damage they inflict when battling other Hoplites?
  • How resistant are Hoplites to the type of damage that other Hoplites inflict?
Hoplites receive no bonus to the damage they inflict when battling other Hoplites. As a result, the modifier to Hoplite A's damage per second will be equal to 0%, as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p1=
(100% – a2) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))

Hoplites are 35% resistant to hack attacks, which means that the percentage by which Hoplite A's damage is reduced is equal to 35%, as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p1=
(100% – 35%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))

Once you have accounted for any modifiers to the damage that Hoplite A inflicts, you can proceed with the arithmetic.

115 damage
p1=
(100% – 35%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))

115 damage
p1=
65% (8 damage/second (100%))

115 damage
p1=
65% (8 damage/second)

115 damage
p1=
5.2 damage/second

115 damage1 second
p1=
x
15.2 damage

115 damageseconds
p1=
5.2 damage

115 seconds
p1=
5.2

p1=22.1153846154 seconds

Note that these are the base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

One might speculate that a unit A's resilience in combat, that is, its ability to sustain damage, rather than deal it, is also of vital importance. However, doing so would overlook the fact that unit A's survival is actually dependent upon the killing speed of the unit it faces (unit B), and thus, equal to the killing speed of the unit it faces (unit B). As a result, it is by calculating the period of one killing cycle for unit B that we discern the resilience of unit A, which leads us to the next equation used in this system of ranking: the equation for the period of one killing cycle for unit B.

How long would it take for unit B to kill unit A?

The equation below can be used to calculate the time taken for unit B to kill unit A.

h1
p2=
(100% – a1) (d2 (100% + m2))

Where:

a1=The percentage by which unit B's damage is reduced (unit A's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d2=The amount of damage dealt by unit B per second
h1=The amount of damage that unit A can sustain before death (unit A's HP)
m2=The percentage by which unit B's damage is increased by modifiers
p2=The period of one killing cycle for unit B

It should be noted that this equation does not account for shortcomings in range, nor does it account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100%. As a result, this equation should only be used if unit B's range is greater than or equal to that of unit A and unit B has an accuracy of 100%. Also, it is essential that unit A's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by unit B. Lastly, this equation always assumes that unit B initiates the first attack in the sequence of attacks exchanged between the two units.

I will illustrate the proper use of this equation in the following example, where I will use it to calculate how long it would take for one Hoplite (Hoplite B) to kill another Hoplite (Hoplite A). This scenario is illustrated in the image below.


Hoplites possess 115 HP, which means that they can sustain 115 damage before dying. In order to discern how long it would take for one Hoplite (Hoplite B) to kill another Hoplite (Hoplite A), you need to divide the amount of damage that Hoplite A can sustain (115 damage) by the amount that Hoplite B inflicts every second (8 damage/second), as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p2=
(100% – a1) (8 damage/second (100% + m2))

However, before dividing, you must account for any modifiers to the damage that Hoplite B inflicts.

Ask yourself the following questions:
  • Do Hoplites receive a bonus to the damage they inflict when battling other Hoplites?
  • How resistant are Hoplites to the type of damage that other Hoplites inflict?
Hoplites receive no bonus to the damage they inflict when battling other Hoplites. As a result, the modifier to Hoplite B's damage per second will be equal to 0%, as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p2=
(100% – a1) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))

Hoplites are 35% resistant to hack attacks, which means that the percentage by which Hoplite B's damage is reduced is equal to 35%, as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p2=
(100% – 35%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))

Once you have accounted for any modifiers to the damage that Hoplite B inflicts, you can proceed with the arithmetic.

115 damage
p2=
(100% – 35%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))

115 damage
p2=
65% (8 damage/second (100%))

115 damage
p2=
65% (8 damage/second)

115 damage
p2=
5.2 damage/second

115 damage1 second
p2=
x
15.2 damage

115 damageseconds
p2=
5.2 damage

115 seconds
p2=
5.2

p2=22.1153846154 seconds

Note that these are the base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

In this case, because unit A and B are both Hoplites, the period of one killing cycle for unit A is equal to that of unit B. Thus, in the event that either of the two Hoplites initiates the first attack, the time taken for Hoplite A to kill Hoplite B will be identical to the time taken for Hoplite B to kill Hoplite A.

As previously stated, these equations do not account for shortcomings in range. Because this system of ranking evaluates units based upon their comparative performance in combat, the advantage of additional range should be taken into account, otherwise, units with ranged attacks will appear less valuable than they actually are. This leads us to the next equation used in this system of ranking: the equation for the period of one killing cycle for unit A in the event that its range is less than that of unit B.

How long would it take for unit A to kill unit B if unit B's range exceeded that of unit A?

The equation below can be used to calculate the time taken for unit A to kill unit B if the range of unit B exceeds that of unit A and unit A be must cover ground before engaging unit B directly in combat.

h2r2r1
p1=
+
(100% – a2) (d1 (100% + m1))s1

Where:

a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
p1=The period of one killing cycle for unit A
r1=Unit A's range
r2=Unit B's range
s1=Unit A's speed

It should be noted that this equation does not account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100%. As a result, this equation should only be used if unit A has an accuracy of 100%. Also, it is essential that unit B's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by unit A. Lastly, this equation always assumes that unit A initiates the first attack in the sequence of attacks exchanged between the two units.

I will illustrate the proper use of this equation in the following example, where I will use it to calculate how long it would take for one Hoplite (unit A) to kill one Toxotes (unit B). This scenario is illustrated in the image given below.


In this example, the Hoplite (unit A) is out-ranged, and consequently, must first cover a certain amount of ground before it can engage the Toxotes (unit B) in direct combat. The question is: How much ground does the Hoplite have to cover?

In order to discern the distance that the Hoplite (unit A) must travel before it can engage in direct combat with the Toxotes (unit B), you must discern both the range of the Hoplite (unit A) and the Toxotes (unit B), and then find the difference between these two values. Toxotai have a range of 15 meters, while Hoplites possess a range of 0.3 meters. This means that the Hoplite must travel a minimum of 14.7 meters before it is within range of attack, as demonstrated in the equation given below.

h215.0 meters – 0.3 meters
p1=
+
(100% – a2) (d1 (100% + m1))s1

h214.7 meters
p1=
+
(100% – a2) (d1 (100% + m1))s1

Once you have discerned the distance that the Hoplite (unit A) must travel before it is within range of attack (14.7 meters), you must determine how long it will take the Hoplite to travel this distance by dividing it by the speed at which Hoplites travel (4.2 meters/second), as demonstrated below.

h214.7 meters
p1=
+
(100% – a2) (d1 (100% + m1))4.2 meters/second

Toxotai possess 60 HP, which means that they can sustain 60 damage before dying. In order to discern how long it would take for the Hoplite (Unit A) to kill the Toxotes (Unit B) once it was within range of attack, you need to divide the amount of damage that Toxotai can sustain (60 damage) by the amount that the Hoplite inflicts every second (8 damage/second), as demonstrated below.

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
(100% – a2) (8 damage/second (100% + m1))4.2 meters/second

However, before dividing, you must account for any modifiers to the damage that the Hoplite (unit A) inflicts.

Ask yourself the following questions:
  • Do Hoplites receive a bonus to the damage they inflict when battling Toxotai?
  • How resistant are Toxotai to the type of damage that Hoplites inflict?
Hoplites receive no bonus to the damage they inflict when battling Toxotai. As a result, the modifier to the Hoplite's damage per second will be equal to 0%, as demonstrated below.

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
(100% – a2) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))4.2 meters/second

Toxotai are 15% resistant to hack attacks, which means that the percentage by which the Hoplite's damage is reduced is equal to 15%, as demonstrated below.

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
(100% – 15%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))4.2 meters/second

Once you have accounted for any modifiers to the damage that the Hoplite inflicts, you can proceed with the arithmetic.

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
(100% – 15%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))4.2 meters/second

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
85% (8 damage/second (100%))4.2 meters/second

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
85% (8 damage/second)4.2 meters/second

60 damage14.7 meters
p1=
+
6.8 damage/second4.2 meters/second

60 damage1 second14.7 meters1 second
P1 = 
 x 

 + 
 x 
16.8 damage14.2 meters

60 damageseconds14.7 metersseconds
p1=
+
6.8 damage4.2 meters

60 seconds14.7 seconds
p1=
+
6.84.2

p1=8.823529412 seconds+3.5 seconds

p1=12.32352941 seconds

Note that these are the base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

As previously stated, unit A's survival is dependent upon the killing speed of the unit it faces (unit B), and thus, equal to the killing speed of the unit it faces (unit B). As a result, it is by calculating the period of one killing cycle for unit B that we discern the resilience of unit A. Thus, if unit B is out-ranged by unit A, such an advantage must be taken into account because it will extend the period of unit B's killing cycle, rendering unit A more resilient. This leads us to the next equation used in this system of ranking: the equation for the period of one killing cycle for unit B in the event that its range is less than that of unit A.

How long would it take for unit B to kill unit A if unit A's range exceeded that of unit B?

The equation below can be used to calculate the time taken for unit B to kill unit A if the range of unit A exceeds that of unit B and unit B be must cover ground before engaging unit A directly in combat.

h1r1r2
p2=
+
(100% – a1) (d2 (100% + m2))s2

Where:

a1=The percentage by which unit B's damage is reduced (unit A's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d2=The amount of damage dealt by unit B per second
h1=The amount of damage that unit A can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m2=The percentage by which unit B's damage is increased by modifiers
p2=The period of one killing cycle for unit B
r1=Unit A's range
r2=Unit B's range
s2=Unit B's speed

It should be noted that this equation does not account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100%. As a result, this equation should only be used if unit A has an accuracy of 100%. Also, it is essential that unit B's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by unit A. Lastly, this equation always assumes that unit A initiates the first attack in the sequence of attacks exchanged between the two units.

I will illustrate the proper use of this equation in the following example, where I will use it to calculate how long it would take for one Hoplite (unit B) to kill one Toxotes (unit A). This scenario is illustrated in the image given below.


In this example, the Hoplite (unit B) is out-ranged, and consequently, must first cover a certain amount of ground before it can engage the Toxotes (unit A) in direct combat. The question is: How much ground does the Hoplite have to cover?

In order to discern the distance that the Hoplite (unit B) must travel before it can engage in direct combat with the Toxotes (unit A), you must discern both the range of the Hoplite (unit B) and the Toxotes (unit A), and then find the difference between these two values. Toxotai have a range of 15 meters, while Hoplites possess a range of 0.3 meters. This means that the Hoplite must travel a minimum of 14.7 meters before it is within range of attack, as demonstrated in the equation given below.

h115.0 meters – 0.3 meters
p2=
+
(100% – a1) (d2 (100% + m2))s2

h114.7 meters
p2=
+
(100% – a1) (d2 (100% + m2))s2

Once you have discerned the distance that the Hoplite (unit B) must travel before it is within range of attack (14.7 meters), you must determine how long it will take the Hoplite to travel this distance by dividing it by the speed at which Hoplites travel (4.2 meters/second), as demonstrated below.

h114.7 meters
p2=
+
(100% – a1) (d2 (100% + m2))4.2 meters/second

Toxotai possess 60 HP, which means that they can sustain 60 damage before dying. In order to discern how long it would take for the Hoplite (Unit B) to kill the Toxotes (Unit A) once it was within range of attack, you need to divide the amount of damage that Toxotai can sustain (60 damage) by the amount that the Hoplite inflicts every second (8 damage/second), as demonstrated below.

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
(100% – a1) (8 damage/second (100% + m2))4.2 meters/second

However, before dividing, you must account for any modifiers to the damage that the Hoplite (unit B) inflicts.

Ask yourself the following questions:
  • Do Hoplites receive a bonus to the damage they inflict when battling Toxotai?
  • How resistant are Toxotai to the type of damage that Hoplites inflict?
Hoplites receive no bonus to the damage they inflict when battling Toxotai. As a result, the modifier to the Hoplite's damage per second will be equal to 0%, as demonstrated below.

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
(100% – a1) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))4.2 meters/second

Toxotai are 15% resistant to hack attacks, which means that the percentage by which the Hoplite's damage is reduced is equal to 15%, as demonstrated below.

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
(100% – 15%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))4.2 meters/second

Once you have accounted for any modifiers to the damage that the Hoplite inflicts, you can proceed with the arithmetic.

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
(100% – 15%) (8 damage/second (100% + 0%))4.2 meters/second

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
85% (8 damage/second (100%))4.2 meters/second

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
85% (8 damage/second)4.2 meters/second

60 damage14.7 meters
p2=
+
6.8 damage/second4.2 meters/second

60 damage1 second14.7 meters1 second
P2 = 
 x 

 + 
 x 
16.8 damage14.2 meters

60 damageseconds14.7 metersseconds
p2=
+
6.8 damage4.2 meters

60 seconds14.7 seconds
p2=
+
6.84.2

p2=8.823529412 seconds+3.5 seconds

p2=12.32352941 seconds

Note that these are the base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

The Unit Ratio

By calculating the killing speed of both unit A and B, you can compare the killing speed of each unit, and thus, calculate how many of unit B are required in order to kill one of Unit A.

How many of unit B are required to kill one of unit A if the range of each unit is equal?

The equation below can be used to calculate the unit ratio for unit A if the range of Unit A is equal to that of Unit B.

h1

(1 – a1) (d2 (1 + m2))
r1=
h2

(1 – a2) (d1 (1 + m1))

Where:

a1=The percentage by which unit B's damage is reduced (unit A's hack/pierce/crush armor)
a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
d2=The amount of damage dealt by unit B per second
h1=The amount of damage that unit A can sustain before death (unit A's HP)
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
m2=The percentage by which unit B's damage is increased by modifiers
r1=The unit ratio of unit B to unit A

It should be noted that this equation does not account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100%. As a result, this equation should only be used if both units have an accuracy of 100%. Also, it is essential that each unit 's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by the other. Lastly, this equation always assumes that each unit initiates the first attack in the sequence of attacks exchanged between the two units.

How many of unit A are required to kill one of unit B if the range of each unit is equal?

The equation below can be used to calculate the unit ratio for unit B if the range of Unit B is equal to that of Unit A.

h2

(1 – a2) (d1 (1 + m1))
r2=
h1

(1 – a1) (d2 (1 + m2))

Where:

a1=The percentage by which unit B's damage is reduced (unit A's hack/pierce/crush armor)
a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
d2=The amount of damage dealt by unit B per second
h1=The amount of damage that unit A can sustain before death (unit A's HP)
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
m2=The percentage by which unit B's damage is increased by modifiers
r1=The unit ratio of unit B to unit A

It should be noted that this equation does not account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100%. As a result, this equation should only be used if both units have an accuracy of 100%. Also, it is essential that each unit 's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by the other. Lastly, this equation always assumes that each unit initiates the first attack in the sequence of attacks exchanged between the two units.



If the range of Unit A exceeds that of Unit B...
The equation below can be used to calculate the unit ratio for unit A if the range of Unit A exceeds that of Unit B.

h1r1r2

+
(1 – a1) (d2 (1 + m2))s2

h2

(1 – a2) (d1 (1 + m1))

Where:

a1=The percentage by which unit B's damage is reduced (unit A's hack/pierce/crush armor)
a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
d2=The amount of damage dealt by unit B per second
h1=The amount of damage that unit A can sustain before death (unit A's HP)
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
m2=The percentage by which unit B's damage is increased by modifiers
r1=Unit A's range
r2=Unit B's range
s1=Unit A's speed
s2=Unit B's speed

It should be noted that this equation does not account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100% or who have special attacks. As a result, this equation should only be used if both units have an accuracy of 100% and possess no special attack. Also, it is essential that each unit's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by the other.


If the range of Unit B exceeds that of Unit A...
The equation below can be used to calculate the unit ratio for unit A if the range of Unit A is less than that of Unit B.

h1

(1 – a1) (d2 (1 + m2))

h2r2r1

+
(1 – a2) (d1 (1 + m1))s1

Where:

a1=The percentage by which unit B's damage is reduced (unit A's hack/pierce/crush armor)
a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
d2=The amount of damage dealt by unit B per second
h1=The amount of damage that unit A can sustain before death (unit A's HP)
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
m2=The percentage by which unit B's damage is increased by modifiers
r1=Unit A's range
r2=Unit B's range
s1=Unit A's speed
s2=Unit B's speed

It should be noted that this equation does not account for units whose accuracy in combat is less than 100% or who have special attacks. As a result, this equation should only be used if both units have an accuracy of 100% and possess no special attack. Also, it is essential that each unit's armor correspond to the type of damage inflicted by the other.


Averaging Unit Quotients

If you calculate a particular unit's unit ratio for every other type of unit, you can assess its average efficiency in combat and compare it to that of other units. For example, let's say I calculated a Hoplite's unit ratio for each of the basic human units accessible to civilizations during the classical age:

0.6470329670
0.8492307692
1.0000000000
1.0451979120
1.0454545455
1.3479853480
1.3760683761
1.6000000000
1.6890031210
1.7331240188
2.7132926059
3.4502334744

Note that unit ratios displayed in red are likely inaccurate, and have not yet been confirmed in-game by experiments. Also, note that these are base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

Notice how the table above lists the units in order of increasing unit ratio. This allows you to see exactly how much more or less effective Hoplites are against each type of unit in a way that was not possible before. For example, we can observe that Hoplites are least effective against Axemen and most effective against Turma. If you divide these two ratios, you can actually see how much more or less efficient (Hoplites are 81% less effective against Axeman than they are against Turma). You can also use the unit ratio to determine the number of Hoplites you would require in order to be successful, were you to deploy them against a certain unit type.

Another interesting thing you can do is average these ratios to see which civilization Hoplites excel at fighting against.

Civilization
Greek1.1794112967
Norse1.2564172120
Egyptian1.6978165306
Atlantean2.0318960066

Note that unit ratios displayed in red are likely inaccurate, and have not yet been confirmed in-game by experiments. Because they derived from the previous table of statistics, these too may be somewhat inaccurate.Also, note that these are base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

We can see from these averages that Hoplites are the most effective against Atlanteans and least effective against Greeks.

You can also calculate a units average unit ratio by averaging its unit ratio for all other types of units. For example, the average of all the above statistics would be 1.5413852615. This overall average would obviously include many more units, but it could then be compared to other units (which would all have an average unit ratio as well) in a distribution.

You can also evaluate units based upon their cost and whether or not they pay for themselves (more information on this is pending).


Unit Ratio Percentiles

After compiling the various average unit ratios to be found in the game, you could plot them all on a distribution and then assign each unit a percentile, telling you even more about how it compares to all other units in the game.

If this explanation seems incomplete, that's because it is. I have a lot of things to contribute, but I am very limited on time.

Some of the things that are pending include:

- Equations accounting for unit accuracy in combat
- Equations accounting for unit special abilities/attacks
- Revision of the above subject matter and an update of the statistics
- Examples for each equation
- Database of all of the said statistics for each unit

Questions are always welcome.

On a side note, all numbers used are rough approximations. Depending on your computer, or your own personal estimations, you will have different variations in answers. For example, your computer may be running slow, and this may cause the unit speeds to decrease. It is also noted that the hills in a game of AoM can cause your units to go faster or slower, depending on the height of the incline.

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-22-2011 @ 06:53 PM).]

Replies:
posted 12 December 2011 03:00 AM EDT (US)     1 / 60  
Wow. You're really into this... math thing. Well keep on doing it, nice stuff you come up with!

Sometimes I like to take screenshots. But only sometimes.
posted 12 December 2011 09:20 AM EDT (US)     2 / 60  
It would be nice if a nodded came up with a tool with this interpreted.

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
posted 12 December 2011 10:56 AM EDT (US)     3 / 60  
Keep this up Sagacious. You're establishing a good reputation for yourself.

I suggest both of the posts he did about calculations should be newsed.

posted 12 December 2011 02:41 PM EDT (US)     4 / 60  
The resources one wasn't finished, and it would be DragonQ or PaPayas responsibility rather than my own.

I will email them about it as it is something worth considering.

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
posted 12 December 2011 04:22 PM EDT (US)     5 / 60  
Wow. You're really into this... math thing. Well keep on doing it, nice stuff you come up with!
Indeed I am. You see, as a theoretical physicist, my arsenal of tools is essentially an inventory of mathematics.
It would be nice if a nodded came up with a tool with this interpreted.
This sounds like an interesting idea. Perhaps, once I have finished developing this system, we can discuss its integration.
Keep this up Sagacious. You're establishing a good reputation for yourself.

I suggest both of the posts he did about calculations should be newsed.
Thank you; I still have much more to contribute to each subject, so bear with me, as my time is often very limited.
The resources one wasn't finished, and it would be DragonQ or PaPayas responsibility rather than my own.
I am still working on that post as well. I do recommend, however, that you leave the mathematics to me, as some of it requires knowledge of highly advanced calculus. What you see is a simplification of that math, which, while slightly less accurate, is still sufficiently accurate to be applied in-game.

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-13-2011 @ 05:40 PM).]

posted 12 December 2011 05:07 PM EDT (US)     6 / 60  
I'm glad you gave the hoplite as an example, because i would never have worked it out.

Can you do one for toxotes?


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde.
posted 12 December 2011 05:45 PM EDT (US)     7 / 60  
Can you do one for toxotes?
Of course; in this example, I will illustrate the proper method by which to calculate how long it would take for 1 Toxotes (unit A) to kill 1 Hoplite (unit B). Because this example pertains to a situation in which unit A initiates unit B in battle, you will need to use the appropriate equation. The equation used to calculate the time taken for unit A to kill unit B is given below.

h2
p=
(100% – a2) (d1 (100% + m1))

Where:

a2=The percentage by which unit A's damage is reduced (unit B's hack/pierce/crush armor)
d1=The amount of damage dealt by unit A per second
h2=The amount of damage that unit B can sustain before death (unit B's HP)
m1=The percentage by which unit A's damage is increased by modifiers
p=The period of one killing cycle for unit A

Hoplites possess 115 HP, which means that they can sustain 115 damage before dying. In order to discern how long it would take for 1 Toxotes (unit A) to kill 1 Hoplite (unit B), you need to divide the amount of damage that Hoplites can sustain (115 damage) by the amount that 1 Toxotes inflicts every second (6.5 damage/second), as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p=
(100% – a2) (6.5 damage/second (100% + m1))

However, before dividing, you must account for any modifiers to the damage that the Toxotes inflicts.

Ask yourself the following questions:
  • Do Toxotai receive a bonus to the damage they inflict when battling Hoplites?
  • How resistant are Hoplites to the type of damage that Toxotai inflict?
Toxotai receive no bonus to the damage they inflict when battling Hoplites. As a result, the modifier to the Toxotes' damage per second will be equal to 0%, as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p=
(100% – a2) (6.5 damage/second (100% + 0%))

Hoplites are 15% resistant to pierce attacks, which means that the percentage by which the Toxotes' damage is reduced is equal to 15%, as demonstrated below.

115 damage
p=
(100% – 15%) (6.5 damage/second (100% + 0%))

115 damage
p=
85% (6.5 damage/second (100%))

115 damage
p=
85% (6.5 damage/second)

115 damage
p=
5.525 damage/second

115 damage1 second
p=
x
15.525 damage

115 damageseconds
p=
5.525 damage

115 seconds
p=
5.525

p = 20.8144796380 seconds

Note that these are the base statistics for each unit without the inclusion of any upgrades.

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-13-2011 @ 07:12 PM).]

posted 13 December 2011 01:18 AM EDT (US)     8 / 60  
Dude where did you come from? Are you a teacher?

posted 13 December 2011 01:28 AM EDT (US)     9 / 60  
Dude where did you come from? Are you a teacher?
I am 20 years old; currently, I am enrolled as an undergraduate student in college, where I am majoring in physics. Though I am paid to teach physics, I am not yet qualified to instruct an entire class.

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-13-2011 @ 07:10 PM).]

posted 13 December 2011 11:30 AM EDT (US)     10 / 60  
Well for you, mr. smart

posted 13 December 2011 02:53 PM EDT (US)     11 / 60  
^Can't tell if sarcastic or honest...

Sometimes I like to take screenshots. But only sometimes.
posted 13 December 2011 03:06 PM EDT (US)     12 / 60  
Honest.

I quote from an anonymous AoMH user on MSN

"Expert and Euroqueb are very different people outside the HoV... I will actually talk to them there, because they are decent people."

I will not name names :P

(Although no offense Expert and Euroqueb but the quote is in its way true, you are both very different outside the HoV)


And Sagacious you have a failed BB code in the last set of bullet points, you added a Colour code it seems but never added a colour

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
posted 13 December 2011 03:24 PM EDT (US)     13 / 60  

0.6470329670
0.8492307692
1.0000000000
1.0451979120
1.0454545455
1.3479853480
1.3760683761
1.6000000000
1.6890031210
1.7331240188
2.7132926059
3.4502334744
Can you post this same table except change the hoplite to a hippikon and do the calculations?

posted 13 December 2011 04:31 PM EDT (US)     14 / 60  
Honest.

I quote from an anonymous AoMH user on MSN

"Expert and Euroqueb are very different people outside the HoV... I will actually talk to them there, because they are decent people."

I will not name names :P

(Although no offense Expert and Euroqueb but the quote is in its way true, you are both very different outside the HoV)
It was really not a question, I just implied that the comment looked like one and may, from other members me, have been used in such a way.

Besides, that quote is not really relevant in any case because the grudge against Euro and Expert is not about whether they're decent or not, both irl and in HoV, but more about some dumb posting and ability to feed trolls from their side. Trust me on this, I have myself kept a flame war living in some HoV thread I can't remember because I didn't know the community and "mood" of HoV.
I appreciate both Expert and Euro in the SD forums, which they are both very active and capable forummers of, but they seem to just attract trouble in HoV.

Sometimes I like to take screenshots. But only sometimes.
posted 13 December 2011 05:36 PM EDT (US)     15 / 60  
And Sagacious you have a failed BB code in the last set of bullet points, you added a Colour code it seems but never added a colour
Please accept my sincere apology for the erroneous coding. Remember, this is a work in progress, so much of the information presented in this post is subject to revision because it may contain numerous flaws in coding and/or content.
Can you post this same table except change the hoplite to a hippikon and do the calculations?
Absolutely; I am currently in the process of compiling data for a table consisting of the basic human units accessible to civilizations during the classical age. While the math involved is relatively simple, affirming the accuracy of these calculations in-game can be tedious, so bear with me.
posted 13 December 2011 07:31 PM EDT (US)     16 / 60  
I like the way you think boy. Reminds me of myself. Seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and know how to solve problems and explain yourself. Thumbs up for uniqness in that. You even cared to put your actual location instead of some nonsense. Imo, we need more people like you on these forums.

(Not implying that people have "nonsense" as their location in a bad way.)

edit: Do you do any designing for aom?

[This message has been edited by The AoM Expert (edited 12-13-2011 @ 07:33 PM).]

posted 13 December 2011 08:13 PM EDT (US)     17 / 60  
I like the way you think boy. Reminds me of myself. Seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and know how to solve problems and explain yourself. Thumbs up for uniqness in that. You even cared to put your actual location instead of some nonsense. Imo, we need more people like you on these forums.
Thank you; I appreciate the compliment.
Do you do any designing for aom?
Unfortunately, no, I do not.
posted 13 December 2011 09:02 PM EDT (US)     18 / 60  
Do you do any designing for aom?
Unfortunately, no, I do not.
You should try it, I think you could have an easy time with triggers and modding.
I like the way you think boy. Reminds me of myself.
You talk like you're 30 years older than Sagacious.

Sometimes I like to take screenshots. But only sometimes.
posted 13 December 2011 09:04 PM EDT (US)     19 / 60  
You should try it, I think you could have an easy time with triggers and modding.
Perhaps, after I have finished developing this system, I will look into it.
You talk like you're 30 years older than Sagacious.
Well, I am quite young (20 years old). Perhaps this is why?

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-13-2011 @ 09:06 PM).]

posted 13 December 2011 09:17 PM EDT (US)     20 / 60  
boy = friend.

I'm only two years younger than you are.

posted 13 December 2011 09:20 PM EDT (US)     21 / 60  
You should try it, I think you could have an easy time with triggers and modding.
Perhaps, after I have finished developing this system, I will look into it.
Do so!

Sometimes I like to take screenshots. But only sometimes.
posted 13 December 2011 09:36 PM EDT (US)     22 / 60  
Yeah bro, aom designing involves laterall thinking and logical deduction.

btw are you on eso? whats your rating?

[This message has been edited by The AoM Expert (edited 12-13-2011 @ 09:39 PM).]

posted 13 December 2011 11:03 PM EDT (US)     23 / 60  
Do you do any designing for aom?
Unfortunately, no, I do not.
You should try it, I think you could have an easy time with triggers and modding.
Yeah, you should do design !


( σяυɘ ϙυє )﴿

ʸᵒᵘᵗᵘᵇᵉ ˡˡʳʸ
posted 14 December 2011 00:42 AM EDT (US)     24 / 60  
btw are you on eso? whats your rating?
Unfortunately, no, I am not. I can, however, defeat the computer on Titan difficulty on any map.

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-14-2011 @ 00:43 AM).]

posted 14 December 2011 00:46 AM EDT (US)     25 / 60  
PLAY. ESO.

posted 14 December 2011 04:13 AM EDT (US)     26 / 60  
That is quite a piece of work.

I have a question, if unit A is killing unit B and they have unequal range wouldn't it be better to write the equation assuming all the units start attacking at once, to me it looks like one units attacks then dies then the next one starts to attack?
posted 14 December 2011 10:17 AM EDT (US)     27 / 60  
That is quite a piece of work.
Thank you; keep in mind that this post is not yet complete, so much of the information presented within it is still subject to revision.
I have a question, if unit A is killing unit B and they have unequal range wouldn't it be better to write the equation assuming all the units start attacking at once, to me it looks like one units attacks then dies then the next one starts to attack?
That is an excellent question. No, it would not be better to assume that all units involved commence attacking at the same time because, if a particular unit is out-ranged, then it must first cover a certain amount of ground before engaging the other unit of superior range in direct combat. Also, because this system of ranking evaluates units based upon their comparative performance in combat, the advantage of additional ranged should be accounted for by assuming that the unit with superior range commences attacking the unit with inferior range whilst it closes the necessary ground to engage in direct combat.

The equation used to calculate the period of one killing cycle for a unit that is out-ranged by another simply accounts for the additional time required for the unit of inferior range to cover ground before engaging the unit of superior range in direct combat.

[This message has been edited by Sagacious (edited 12-14-2011 @ 10:34 AM).]

posted 14 December 2011 05:13 PM EDT (US)     28 / 60  
I have emailed PaPaya and DragonQ

Looks like we have a newsie once this is done.

Leader and Trigger Artist of Mythic Studios
I need players for my Peloponnesian War RPG (Its Semi-Historical)
Now quit being a bitch and quote me in your signature like Yeebaagooon used to. ~Out Reach
posted 14 December 2011 05:58 PM EDT (US)     29 / 60  
I have emailed PaPaya and DragonQ

Looks like we have a newsie once this is done.
Thank you; I appreciate it.
posted 14 December 2011 10:43 PM EDT (US)     30 / 60  
Sagacious are you really doing all these calculations for us?

Oh and please please please design for aom

[This message has been edited by The AoM Expert (edited 12-14-2011 @ 10:48 PM).]

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