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Topic Subject: A Guide to The Scorpion Man
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posted 05 September 2003 03:11 PM EDT (US)   
Following my guides on the Phoenix and Wadjet, I've decided to do another one on Egyptian Myth Units.

So far we've found that Phoenixes are only really good against non-ranged buildings (when they're close together so they can do splash damage), and against non-ranged units. And that Wadjets should only really be used against Norse infantry in the Classical Age.

This time, I've done some tests on the Scorpion Man, another of my favourite MUs.

Although most Isis players will choose Nephthys over Hathor for the Ancestors God Power, they would definitely prefer a Petsuchos or Roc to a Scorpion Man. Why? Let's look at their stats to find out.

Cost: 150 Wood, 25 Favour, 4 Pop spaces
HP: 500
Speed: 5.00
Hack Armour: 50%
Pierce Armour: 40%
Hack damage: 25

They also have a venemous sting attack which I will get into later.

So in general, quite cheap, reasonable HP, ok armour and not a bad attack. So why the bad reputation?

For one thing, it has less HP than all of the other non-ranged MUs. That in itself is not really a big deal, as long as it's attack can counter that.

One of the Scorpion Man's distinctive, and more important qualities is its special attack.

There are a few rumours around about the venemous sting attack, so here are the facts:

1. The Scorpion Man "poisons" a selected unit, which then loses HP gradually by itself.
2. The special attack can affect more than one unit at a time.
3. The special attack can only be [U}targeted[/U} on one unit at a time
4. The Scorpion Man regenerates its special attack every 12 seconds.
5. Any unit affected by the special attack will glow green
6. The Scorpion Man cannot use its special attack on heroes, myth units or villagers.
7. Any unit affected by the special attack will lose on approximately 18 HP while it is in effect.
8. The special attack lasts 10 seconds.
9. The special attack will stil affect the unit(s) once the Scorpion Man is dead.

Number 10 is very important, and the one that most people (including myself) didn't know about.

10. Any human unit within 2 range of the Scorpion Man will be affected by the special attack.

This means that it is not units connected with the poisoned unit that are affected. Eg. a line of 10 toxotes with 1 range between them, only 2-4 units will be affected. These units must be within 2 range of the scorpion man to be affected.

This actually shocked me because I thought the special attack was more powerful than this. However, with a circle of infantry or cavalry attacking the meatshield type Scorpion Man, all units attaking it will probably be affected by the special attack.

This makes the special attack quite useful as there is no set amount of units affected (like the Frost Giant) but also quite difficult to use it correctly by making it affect as many human units as possible (like the Chimera).

So how effective are they against human units.

NOTE: All human units have the following upgrades:
Medium infantry/spearmen
Heavy infantry/spearmen
Copper Weapons
Copper Mail
Copper Shields.

They have been upgraded this way to balance the fact that the Scorpion Man is a Heroic MU. Although human units do not have to have these upgrades, it makes it more like a real game where these upgrades have been researched

All damage is stated as "per hit". However, all units tested attack once per second, so the data is correct. (for what ES says it is) Tests have been carried out at each ranged unit's maximum range

The attack per hit/second has been calculated without taking the special attack into consideration so it will not affect the results. However, the time taken and number of hits to kill the units includes the special attack.

Test 1: 1 Scorpion Man vs 1 Hoplite

Hoplite stats:
HP: 143
Hack armour: 41%
Pierce armour: 23%
Hack damage: 10

Scorpion Man deals 19 damage to Hoplite per hit.
Hoplite deals 6 damage to Scorpion Man per hit.

Scorpion Man kills Hoplite in 8 hits in 9 seconds.

Quite an easy victory for the scorpion man. Not a great attack though.

Some people say that Scorpion Men are better against ranged units. Let's try that:

Test 2: 1 Scorpion Man vs 1 Toxote

Toxote stats:
HP: 72
Hack armour: 23%
Pierce armour: 23%
Pierce damage: 8
Range: 15

Scorpion Man deals 25 damage to toxote per hit
Toxote deals 6 damage to Scorpion Man per hit

Scopion Man kills Toxote in 4 hits in 4 seconds.

Much quicker than the hoplite because of the lower HP and armour, but the toxote's attack is the same as the hoplite. Strange, why's that? Because of the low 40% pierce armour of the Scorpion Man.

How about against more than 1 toxote?

Test 3: 1 Scorpion Man vs 5 Toxotes

Scorpion Man affects 3 toxotes with its special attack.
Scorpion Man wins in 12 seconds.

Seems good, the Scorpion Man kills them quickly. But the toxotes have dealed a powerful 386 damage to it. That's only 114 HP left! If there's no priest around, it could be killed easily by more archers or other units.

So it seems that the low HP and armour is quite an important issue. Because of this, it makes it easy for ranged units to take it out before it does too much damage.

Because of this, the Scorpion Man seems better suited to fight other melee units.

Test 4: 1 Scorpion Man vs 1 Spearman

Spearman stats:
HP: 87
Hack armour: 46%
Pierce armour: 23%
Hack damage: 9

Scorpion Man deals 16 damage to spearman per hit.
Spearman deals 5 damage to Scorpion Man per hit.

Scorpion Man kills spearman in 6 hits in 6 seconds.

Hmmm, because of the spearman's high hack armour, the Scorpion Man's attack is pretty low. But so is the spearman's attack against the Scorpion Man, and with it's very low HP, it's an easy victory for the Scorpion Man.

It's the same story against the Ulfsark, only the Scorpion Man has a higher attack against it.

Another note about the Scorpion Man is that it has a 2x bonus against other Myth Units. Unfortunately, it is defeated by all other Heroic MUs apart from the Scarab, petsuchos and Manticore. You would have thought that with it's high attack, it would do well against MUs such as the Nemean Lion and Battle Boar, but once again, it comes down to its low HP and relatively ow armour.

Against some heroes, it does reasonably well. The Scorpion Man defeats a Heroic Hersir, Priest and Jarl 1 on 1. Which isn't bad, but still doesn't make up for it's low HP and armour.

Conclusion:
Like the Phoenix and Wadjet, the Scorpion Man is not an all-round unit. It excels at attacking archers with low HP, but will also receive a lot of damage because of the low pierce armour. Against low hack armoured infantry and cavalry (of which there are not many), the Scorpion Man can do quite well.

Using them against Egyptian units is probably best because of their low HP, particularly slingers. They also don't do so bad against Norse because of weaker armour and lack of archers. Just keep them away from ranged archers like toxotes and CAs who will take care of your MU very easily when playing against the Greeks, especially Hades..

The Scorpion Man is not particularly amazing for a Heroic myth unit, but as long as people are using Ancestors, we'll probably see them scuttling around the battlefield.


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

[This message has been edited by ArtemisChimera (edited 09-05-2003 @ 06:21 PM).]

Replies:
posted 05 September 2003 03:26 PM EDT (US)     1 / 33  
Good post but I think 25 favor is so much for a scorpionman and on water maps although 150 is less I don't think I will make ant scorpionman

You Guys Know I Like Gaia and Hades... Why?
Because I like to play defensive... Why?
Because I like to boom... Why?
Because I like to win... Why?
Because I like to kick a**... Why?
Because...err...hmm... I don't Know!
posted 05 September 2003 04:06 PM EDT (US)     2 / 33  
posted 05 September 2003 06:14 PM EDT (US)     3 / 33  
Really nice post, I don't get this however.


"Scorpion Man deals 22 damage to Hoplite per hit."

"Scorpion Man deals 16 damage to spearman per hit."

The difference in hack armour is just 5 %, the difference shouldn't be this big, or am I missing something?



If intelligence is defined as the ability to learn things, isn't it rather embarrassing with adults that can't spell?

-EmJay

posted 05 September 2003 06:15 PM EDT (US)     4 / 33  
I know, it's strange, I'll double check it for ya.

EDIT: Weird, it's actually 19, I'll change it. Thanks for pointing that out


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

[This message has been edited by ArtemisChimera (edited 09-05-2003 @ 06:20 PM).]

posted 05 September 2003 08:08 PM EDT (US)     5 / 33  
Good Job. What Eggy myth unit is next! I'm looking forward to reading each analysis of the rest of the myth units. Please do them all. You must do them all. You will do them all. You are getting very sleepy...very, very sleepy...but first you will do the rest of the Eggy myth units...
posted 05 September 2003 08:32 PM EDT (US)     6 / 33  
Nice guide

Maybe you could test the scorpion man with eclipse, it really gives him a huge boost.

posted 05 September 2003 09:40 PM EDT (US)     7 / 33  
I agree. An eclipse test, along with a Sphinx guide with Sphinx + Eclipse would be cool and useful since they kind of go hand in hand- at least for a pivotal minute or so.
posted 06 September 2003 07:32 AM EDT (US)     8 / 33  
The next guide will be on the Scarab.

And I will do another guide with some eggy MUs + Eclipse

Thanks for the support everyone!


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 06 September 2003 08:23 AM EDT (US)     9 / 33  
Nice U ever gonna do Greek or norse Myth units?
posted 06 September 2003 08:47 AM EDT (US)     10 / 33  
Well if he ever plays Greek and Norse he will... but from the looks of it he won't.
posted 06 September 2003 10:41 AM EDT (US)     11 / 33  
Friendly tip ... ? Don't make too many guides in a row so quickly. It makes you go through it too fast, make mistakes, and it'll also get a bit boring for the readers after a while. Just let things simmer for a few days, then post a few more guides. At tghe very leasy, it gives you some time to get it proper. Once you set a quick pace, you're gonna feel bligated to keep up.
posted 06 September 2003 11:36 AM EDT (US)     12 / 33  
You should do one on the avenger.

"Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be greater"

posted 06 September 2003 11:42 AM EDT (US)     13 / 33  
maybe even a mummy!
posted 06 September 2003 11:44 AM EDT (US)     14 / 33  

Quote:

Friendly tip ... ? Don't make too many guides in a row so quickly. It makes you go through it too fast, make mistakes, and it'll also get a bit boring for the readers after a while. Just let things simmer for a few days, then post a few more guides. At tghe very leasy, it gives you some time to get it proper. Once you set a quick pace, you're gonna feel bligated to keep up.

Yeah, I know what you mean, thanks for the advice

I'll make it a weekly thing instead of every few days.

BTW, I won't be doing the Greek or Norse MUs. The reason being that I play with the eggies the most and lots of people have already done Greek ones.

But the Eggy MUs will all be covered


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 06 September 2003 12:14 PM EDT (US)     15 / 33  
why bother doing a guide on the scarab? all you need to say is:

"scarab stinks so bad"

and

"nobody picks the scarab god anyways"

I didn't really read what you said on the scorpion man, but he is a good MU, if you're isis you make him; FH, build midgol, build a settlement, build chariots+camels+rams+scorpion men.

posted 06 September 2003 02:17 PM EDT (US)     16 / 33  

Quote:

why bother doing a guide on the scarab? all you need to say is:
"scarab stinks so bad"

and

"nobody picks the scarab god anyways"

There's no point even beginning to say what's wrong with you've said. Its not worth explaining why I'm doing these guides to someone like you.

So in short-hand, I'm doing a guide to the Scarab. You don't have to read it if you don't want to. And learn the names of the Minor Gods before you act as if you're an expert in the game.

Enjoy reading my articles


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 06 September 2003 02:29 PM EDT (US)     17 / 33  
Good posts Artemis but I can't say they benefit my game cos I don't play any eggy [until next patch]. Somebody can do a greek MU guide. Maybe I can do it but I'm afraid I will be flamed again. Nomatter how hard you work! They all like spamming slug words while they are sitting there and maybe smoking havily. None of them ttried to do smth beneficial.

You Guys Know I Like Gaia and Hades... Why?
Because I like to play defensive... Why?
Because I like to boom... Why?
Because I like to win... Why?
Because I like to kick a**... Why?
Because...err...hmm... I don't Know!
posted 07 September 2003 00:16 AM EDT (US)     18 / 33  

Quote:

There's no point even beginning to say what's wrong with you've said. Its not worth explaining why I'm doing these guides to someone like you.

So in short-hand, I'm doing a guide to the Scarab. You don't have to read it if you don't want to. And learn the names of the Minor Gods before you act as if you're an expert in the game.

heh, lol, check out TOAO_ChronoJJ's rating. that's me.
and as for the names of minor gods, I dunno, names really don't mean all that much. I mainly just go by the pictures of gods, and also which side of the screen they are on.

here're the main reasons why the scarab is bad:

1. scarab's god is bad, in general (once again, my ignorance of names plagues me )

2. scarab costs 300 food. not often you get that sort of stuff in Heroic, much better to spend it on vills, camels, whatever.

3. siege rams are much more efficient; cheaper, last as long, don't take food.

Guides can help, but there's no way to cover up for a bad unit. you can do all sorts of tests, but you can't test real games in the editor.

[This message has been edited by iam_Chrono_J (edited 09-07-2003 @ 00:17 AM).]

posted 07 September 2003 04:22 AM EDT (US)     19 / 33  

Quote:

Guides can help, but there's no way to cover up for a bad unit.

Who's covering up for anything? I'm not saying that all the Eggy MUs are amazing units. In fact, for the Wadjet I said the opposite.

I'd prefer to test out MUs properly before saying if they "suck".

Quote:

you can do all sorts of tests, but you can't test real games in the editor

You can, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm testing the MUs on its own against certain units, buildings and in different situations. I'm not testing out battle strats etc....


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 07 September 2003 04:33 AM EDT (US)     20 / 33  
good post!~!!

while ur at it can u make a guide to the scarab?

posted 07 September 2003 04:38 AM EDT (US)     21 / 33  
LOL, I will do for next Saturday

ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 07 September 2003 12:29 PM EDT (US)     22 / 33  

Quote:

You can, but that's not what I'm doing.

why bother testing then? you aren'ttesting anything, your tests don't prove anything because you're not testing real scenarious.

Quote:

I'm testing the MUs on its own against certain units, buildings and in different situations.

but thing is, nobody ever has MUs fight against units on its own. you're basically wasting your time testing out stuff that doesn't matter. who cares if the scorpion man can take out six toxotes at one time! you're never going to see that situation in any game; the best way to test things is to play online vs. a good player; if it works, then hey, it probably isn't a bad strat/whatever; if it doesn't work, might as well throw it out.

From my own experience, scarab's are so bad that it's a waste of resources if you make them. you obviously don't care about my reasons (which I stated above), or maybe you didn't see them.

the first and foremost reason why scarabs stink is:

1. Rams are better. rams cost wood and gold, and not a ton of either. Rams= 300 resources; scarab equal 300 food + hard to come by favor. food, is much more "rarer" than gold or wood, mainly because you need to use a different resource first before you can get the food.

posted 07 September 2003 02:12 PM EDT (US)     23 / 33  
Let's get one thing straight.

This is a rough guide to the scorpion man. It is on how to use them to their full potential. I'm not saying "use Scorpion Men against 6 archers. I'm saying they do WELL against archers and weaker units.

If you bothered to read the guide properly, you would understand this.

Units are good against some units, and not so good against others. I'm trying to show people which units to use your scorpion men against, and in which situations, not simulate full battles.

As for the scarab, it might be more expensive than seige towers, but it does a much better job. Anyway, that's next week


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Rating - 1662
Favourite Major Gods - Isis, Gaia, Hades, Loki

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War

posted 07 September 2003 05:28 PM EDT (US)     24 / 33  
YEA Finaly someone dose a article on the best unit ever! I have always thought he was very good. For the reasons 1-10 you put. But i think it all comes down to him bieng underestimated.

AOM Titan Info.
Rating: 1650+
Civ. : #1 Thor #2 kronos #3 Odin
ESO : Blunt_69 aka CV_KiNGPiN
posted 08 September 2003 11:03 AM EDT (US)     25 / 33  
Nice post. The scarab article should be interesting. I personally think Scarabs should be a bit stronger; at the moment they are rather expensive in terms of cost and pop. and their pierce armour is not amazing. Their golden appearance does not bely their worth in my opinion.

I don't think Scorpion men are too bad. Their armour is a little low but they are relatively fast and have 9 more hack than a guardian anubite. I don't think that they would fare so badly against other heroic MU if their bonus was increased from 2 to 3 since many other MU do triple damage to other MU like the Nemean Lion and Frost Giant.

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