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Topic Subject: Guide to Odin by NoFx__Deano
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posted 16 February 2004 02:51 AM EDT (US)   
Introduction:

Odin is one of the most versatile and easily learned civilizations that you can choose from in Age of Mythology The Titans. However, he will also prove to be very difficult to master and gain high ratings with. My goal in this article, is to hopefully help many 1600 Odins get to 1700, and help some 1700s get to 1750+. Throughout this I will explain to you, how to read your opponent, how to plan ahead, and how to work around the many weaknesses that Norse Players have to deal with against Atlantean/Greek/Egyptian opponents. I will also discuss tactics such as Raiding, Rushing, Fast Heroics, and Civ-Specific and Map-Specific Strategies that can better help you to adapt to different conditions and playing styles and hopefully score you some more wins. At the end of this article I will also attach a package of Recs that demonstrate various tactics that I will discuss in this article. I will try to organize this as orderly as possible so that higher skilled players don't need to read information that they likely already know.

The Ages:

Here I will give a simple overview of what to do in each of the four ages, god choices, which gods to choose in which situations, possible unit combos, and what you should usually be doing during this age.

Archaic:

This is obviously the most basic of the ages, however, you will need to pay close attention to the map, opponent, and starting conditions to adjust your build order accordingly. Now I know what you are saying. That dreaded phrase "build order." I myself have a basic build up, but it is hardly ever the same from game to game. It changes drastically from map to map and often depending on my opponents civilization so that I can better adjust to what he will make.

Now the map is going to be the first thing that you look at when deciding how to adjust. For example, if I see Marsh, Tundra, or Alfheim, I'm going to be thinking early hunting, Start hunting with my first 2-3 villagers, get hunting dogs immediately and likely I'll be Great Hunting my starting herd of huntables. If I see Watering Hole or Savannah I'm going to be thinking hunting, but beware these maps tend to have big game. Savannah especially tends to start you off with 1-2 Rhinos and Chickens. Now that means that you may not want to hunt immediately because those Rhinos don't go down easy, however, if you have good micro you can sometimes get a Rhino down with 3 villagers, but I wouldn't recommend it because sometimes it causes more harm than good. You should go on the chicken, and once that 4th villager comes out then attack the Rhino while using your Ox Cart as a shield.

Water maps such as Midgard, Highland, and Anatolia usually aren't that difficult to adjust to. Just go a little heavier on wood earlier than you normally would while still keeping 4-6 on hunting so that you can still maintain a decent Classical time. Mediterranean, however, is a difficult map for many, including myself, because of the obvious reason that it often gives you a seed with little to no hunting. This means you are missing out on Odin's largest and, in my opinion, most beneficial advantage. However, part of the game is adapting, you will simply need to work around this fact. I often try to either a) put a few more on herdables (if you think you are going to get a lot of herdables, go on Chickens and then Great Hunt the herdables) and continue as normal, or go a little heavier on wood, get up a second dock in late Archaic, advance a little slower, and drop a Third one in transition. Choice a) is usually the best one to do in most cases, I'd only do Choice vs Egyptians that you think will boom.

Adjusting against your opponent is something that many people I've trained find difficult. If you know what your opponent is going to do, or is likely to do, then you can use this to better prepare. Here is a quick overview of how you can prepare for your opponent and hinder his plan.

Odin/Thor: Expect to be raided and possibly rushed. You'll want to look around and scout the map very well, so a second Ulfsark in Archaic would help. Advance early. What I find that works is 4:40 - 5:50 Classical. Now if you plan to raid him back, then go Freyja, and try to go a little heavier on Food (Valks/RC). You may want to go heavy on wood as well if you are playing a map like Oasis, so that you can better prepare for farming early on. If you are getting rushed, or rushing, then lighten up on food, and focus on Wood and Gold. Also advance through Heimdall on a rushing situation. In either situation, I'd get both Pick Axe and Hand Axe in Classical Transition as long as Resources permit.

Loki: You will be rushed 99% of the time, and I can assure you that you will lose 9/10 times. Right from the start this is usually a losing situation for you, you will have to work around it. You will want to go Heimdall, and get a second Ulfsarks out in Archaic. Find his temple if you can and stop it from going up. Heavy Wood and Gold is important. You may want to hold off on getting both Hand and Pick Axe. I'd recommend Pick Axe as you will need it to spam Einherjar.

Greeks: You know you are going to see lots of Toxotes, so your best bet is going heavy on Food and Gold for RC. However, you want enough on wood in Archaic to leave you to drop Longhouses and grab an early TC, so don't completely neglect wood while advancing. I usually leave 5 on Wood vs a Greek and add some more in Classical. Freyja makes a good choice.

Egyptians: It is doubtful you will get rushed. Booming and Fast Heroic is the popular Egyptian strategy. My advice for Archaic is to advance a little later, 5:10-5:20 works well, and grab another TC after you get 2-3 Longhouses down. So you will want 5-6 on wood in Archaic, and grab all your Economic upgrades in Classical Transition. I'd recommend Freyja here.

Atlanteans: Oh boy. Don't know where to start here. Advance fast. 4:30-4:40 is usually what you want. Any later and you'll either have already lost the game to a Kronos, or your economy will be raped inside and out vs an Oranos. You'll want to go very heavy on food, as Hersirs and Ulfsarks (mixed with a few RC and Valks) will constitute a majority of your army. I'd also recommend put some emphasis on wood so that you can Tower spam him. Freyja once again is your best choice vs Atlanteans.

Classical:

Freyja: This is a great god to choose if you are Raiding, or if you are playing a Civ that is going heavy on Archers (ex: Hades.) As I've stated, if you go Freyja, you will want to go food heavy so that you can pump Valkyries and RC for raids and Flanks. Freyja makes a great choice on water maps as well (ex: Burn wood, Valk Raid, Fishing = High Food.) When to go Freyja: Most water maps; When playing vs Greeks/Egyptians/Atlanteans; when Raiding vs Odin or Thor; If your opponent is making Archers (Thundering Hooves, Valkyries.)

Heimdall: Einherjar are just uber. Not really much else I can say. If you are rushing, I'd go him especially vs other Norse, however, I sometimes make exceptions vs non-norse. When to go Heimdall: Low food maps; When playing vs Loki; When rushing anyone; Countering Tower Spammers (Undermine.)When executing Tower based Strategies (ex: Tower pushing.)

In this age, map control is really important, and one of the reasons I like to use Odin is because I have an option of exactly how I am going to do that. I can go Freyja and control with persistent raiding while building up my economy, or I can go Heimdall and rush while controlling other parts of the map with Towers + Longhouses. However, I can mix and match these strategies and confuse my opponent. I can go up with Freyja and then defensively build Towers to guard forward settlements or protect gold mines.

Things to keep in mind when in Classical are:

-Keep villagers Pumping. If you have to use Auto que to do this then by all means do so, I myself choose not to. Either way, the point remains, the closer your idle time is to zero, the better you are in the long run. If you have two TCs, then both should be producing villagers. Don't stop until you have 70+. Usually I doubt you will need 80+ villagers in a 1v1 but sometimes I find myself doing so. It really depends on situation.

-Get upgrades. I can't tell you how many times I see people sitting with thousands of resources, and at population limit, and still not getting upgrades. It's just wasted resources. Probably the biggest trouble that they have is probably knowing when exactly to get them, but in my opinion, it's better to get them too early than to get them too late, or not at all. In terms of priority, get Economic upgrades first once you have the resources, get Armory upgrades and Unit Line upgrades once you are at population limit, or close to it.

-Keep military pumping. This to me would seem obvious, but people still don't do it. I'm not going to explain why you need to keep military flowing, you should know

-If you have resources, why not spend it. If you have a lot of Wood, spam Longhouses near his gold mines, or make farms. If you have a lot of Food, make more villagers, although you should be anyways. Get upgrades as well. Unless you are saving up for something, you should aim to have 100 or less of everything. One of the most annoying things is losing a game with 2000 of everything.

-Keep the pressure on. This is especially important vs Greeks. Greeks in heroic = Dead Norse in any age. Even raiding consistutes as pressure. If they are defending then they are likely not attacking, or not attacking at their fullest. In addition to that, it'd make sense to keep pressure on so that you can get favor

-Don't fight losing battles. This is important regardless of civ, but it's even more important for Odin because of the very slow Norse unit training times. If you lose your army, you are likely done.

-Scout with Ravens, spy with Ravens. Even I forget to do this sometimes, you lose track of them after a while, but if you remember always use your ravens. Whether it's seeing what he's building or where his Villagers are or covering a Settlement, always and I do mean always use your ravens. These are an Odin bonus, and everytime you don't use them, you are losing a bonus, if you aren't going to use them then you might as well play Thor.

Heroic:

Njord: If you are still fighting on sea, Krakens just own . Mountain Giants make fantastic siege when you are low on wood and gold. Walking Woods is also a very useful god power. When used right it can do some serious damage. When to go Njord: Water maps; Situations when you need a strong siege unit; When you need to break your opponents Forward base or fortifications (Walking Woods); If you intend to make Jarls (Ring Giver.)

Skadi: Quite possibly the exact opposite of Njord, Skadi is better on land maps. Here farming technology and Throwing Axeman boost are the main reason why. Frost Giants are also a magnificant unit if you micromanage them correctly. Frost also can really turn the tide in a lot of situations. When to go Skadi: When you are on the defensive (Frost, Huntress Axe); If you are farming a lot (duh ); If your opponent is making a lot of Infantry; If your opponent is making strong and powerful Myth Units like Hydra and Mountain Giants (Frost Giants + Micromanagement = Ownage .)

In Heroic, Hill Forts and Hill Fort units really become a core part of your strategy. Also Heroic Myth Units will add a massive punch to your army, so it's important to make sure you use your favor wisely. Jarls should, for the most part, be the back bone of your army. Every Norse Heroic combo should at least have 10 or so Jarls just to counter MUs and Archers, I mean if your opponent is decent then he will have MUs and/or Archers. Hill Forts also do a great job of map control, so be sure to use them to the fullest. If I were you, I'd also invest in Levy Hill Fort once you get the resources. At 300 Food, getting 20% more training time means your Jarls/Huskarls come out at 7 seconds instead of 9, can't beat that. It's also a really good idea to get a Market built and start up some trade. Nothing huge, but 5-10 Trade Caravans wouldn't hurt. In late Heroic, you should be finishing off your opponent.

Mythic

Tyr: In AoM, I'd have said go Tyr all the time, but that's changed. Huskarls with Bravery is a really nasty unit, and Fenrir Wolves owned in a pack of 5, and Berserkergang is an awesome technology. However, with Titans, and Throwing Axeman sucking even more vs Infatry, and the Fenrir Wolf nerf, Tyr just is all-round weakened. Unless your opponent is literally massing nothing but Archers and buildings, I wouldn't recommend him.

Baldr: This is your best choice for Mythic. Fire Giants are great, his Raiding Cavalry Tech is great if you still happen to be making RC, and Ragnarok really is the best God Power for making/countering Titans. Also Dwarven Auger owns . Pretty much you want to go Baldr whenever you think your opponent is going ot make a Titan or if you are making a Titan, so basically that's going to be all the time.

There's not really much to go over in Mythic other than the fact that you want to avoid a game going this far all together. Ballista are the unit you want to take the greatest advantage of. 5-6 of them behind a meat shield of Jarls and TA is pretty much the most powerful Norse combo hands down, and the fact that you are Odin makes it that much more powerful with 20% HP and 10% HP on Ballista and Jarls repsectively. In this age map control is everything, and you really want to just get every technology you can. Other than that, there's really nothing more to say. Oh yea and don't forget to Titan lame when possible.

Tactics

As Odin, you will need to learn a variety of tactics if you intend to get the fullest out of him. This includes Raiding, Rushing, Fast Heroics, and several others. The better you know them all, the better you can surprise your opponent or adapt to different opponents.

Raiding

Now while there are a variety of ways to raid, I'm not going to go over all of them in too much detail. The basis is knowing what to raid and how to execute it effectively. Firstly, you will want to go up with Freyja. Once you hit classical, sending out your ravens to search for gathering sites while also sending your Valkyrie to his town will really set you up early for when you get your RC out and prepare to shut his economy down. I'd recommend sending your first 4 RC out and then slowly adding to them. 14-16 RC can usually provide you with enough raiding power to keep your opponent at bay, however, splitting them into groups of 8 will provide to be more useful.

Some things to keep in mind when Raiding are:

-Crennelations is a killer. Once you see he has this, you have two choices. You can either Raid with bigger groups or you can stop raiding. Now in my opinion, they will expect you to stop raiding which is why you shouldn't. Instead get Medium Cavalry upgrade and Pierce armor, get a single group of about 15 Cavalry, mix in some Valkyries when you get the favor to do so, and start raiding and taking out key towers. If you can get Thundering Hooves then get that too. If you've caught him off guard then you'll end up doing more damage to him than he'll do to you. It's all about raiding Conservatively. Only raid when the Gains are greater than the loses.

-Use your ravens and plan ahead. Having flying scouts is probably the greatest Raiding boost that Odin has. Mix in Freyja as a God choice and you can now know where his Villagers are all the time, Burn his wood, and raid with MUs and faster, stronger Raiding Cavalry

-Hit and Run like hell. You are raiding, not attacking. Get in there, disrupt and maybe kill a few villagers or ox carts and run.

-Use more than one group. Raid with at least two groups, that way while you raid with one, the other regenerates HP. Don't neglect that bonus.

-Get Creative. Eventually people catch on to raids and how to stop them, it's unavoidable. When you see this you will need to use distractions, sneak attacks, and decoys.

-Know when to quit. Like I said above, people catch on. But at some point, you just aren't going to cause any more real damage. At that point move on to other things.

Rushing

This is always a nice strategy to have up your sleeve. Mine varies really from opponent to opponent and map to map. Sometimes I rush with Heimdall and other times with Freyja, but regardless I keep a few things in mind.

-You always be doing someting. What I mean is, you should always be raiding or attacking or maybe even both, but don't be sitting around. The longer you do nothing, the more time he has to build up.

-Hit his weak spot. Don't keep attacking the same side of his town. He will build up that side and stop you with towering and building. Instead, attack different areas of his town, and keep him thinking of where you will hit next.

-Shut down his economy. If he has no resources, then how can he defend? From there it's only down hill for him.

Fast Heroic

This tactic as really lost its effectiveness with Odin, but sometimes I pull them off vs Ra and Set. Your Archaic economy whould be very food heavy. You'll want only 3-4 on wood, and once you have enough for the houses and Armory, you want to take them off leaving 1 on wood, and put the rest on food and gold. I can usually get a 6:40ish advance. Once you click the Heroic button, take about 3-4 off of the food and put them back on wood so that you can drop that fort down immediatly. Freyja/Njord is the best god line for this strategy, so you can get uber Odin Jarls. Drop 2-3 longhouses when you get the wood and spam Jarl/TA. Mix in some Mountain giants when you get the resources and it's good game. It's only good if your opponent doesn't see it coming.

Anti-Hades Boom

One strategy that annoys me is the three TC Hades boom. This can sometimes give people trouble because Hades Toxotes become even worse when the Hades is Heroic. What I do vs a Hades is stop the boom before it starts. Hades tend to grab a forward TC early, so building houses near all likely settlements is key. I also foward build on one TC or just behind it so that I can hit him fast once I see the builders. A Hades will only have a Cyclops and an Ajax there defend, you can stop that with your Valkyrie, 2-3 Hersirs and a quick Ulfsark spam. Just in stopping that you've foiled and slowed down their plan, but by stealing that TC will further boost your advantage. So to counter a Hades boom, you need to stop that TC from going up and then boom yourself, get Heroic and finish him off there. Raiding will help a lot as well.

Rush Defense

Odin has some serious problems vs Loki and Kronos Rushes. One key thing to remember is defensive building. Build around Towers and around Resource gathering locations. Get the tower upgrade as soon as possible, and mass TA/Einherjar with a few Hersirs mixed in. Your biggest advantage is being on the defensive, so make him fight under Tower and TC fire. Defending your economy is important though. To some extent you might want to spread out of your town to spots he won't expect to look, or gather at several spots to trick him (If he sees gold miners in your town then he won't expect you to have anymore anywhere else, so use that to your advantage.) Once you get a push on him, take it. Keep pushing, then get some RC and Raid. However, you can avoid this by stopping the rush before it starts. Get a 2nd Ulfsark out early, and chase down his Ulfsark, or harass his Oracles. If he can't get LOS then he can't Time Shift his temple.

Flanking

This is a really important part of Micromanagement, and vs an Atlantean or a Greek it can make or break a battle. What I like to do is scout with my ravens to see if he is making Toxotes/Chieros. Then what I do is I make RC, but somewhat hide them from his sight and then draw him out into a field with my infantry and flank his archers. Usually if they see it coming they will defend better, but if they don't think you have cavalry, then you may get him off guard and give yourself a big advantage in numbers and simply finish him off with raids. With Atlanteans it's harder. I prefer flanking with Valks. Unless he has heroes, his katapeltes won't scratch the Valks.

Conclusion

Well I probably could of said more, but I ran out of stuff to write, I got tired of typing . I'll probably make another post on Civ specific tactics or something, but for now enjoy this article and enjoy the games I've posted. I hope that reading this will at least help someone boost their rating up a few points. Any comments or corrections would be great.

Have A Nice Day!!!

Replies:
posted 16 February 2004 03:17 AM EDT (US)     1 / 74  
first post, now I will read it.
posted 16 February 2004 04:29 AM EDT (US)     2 / 74  
Nice post

Always good to see something constructive for a change.

1 small comment to your minor God choise.

Against Atlanteans I see no reason to go Freya. You will not be making much raiding cavalry due to katapelts.

Instead I would choose Heimdall for his Einherjars. Best classical MU in the game and furthermore you get the Safeguard upgrade for towers which make them cheaper and stronger. Towers, ulfsarks, hersirs and MU's are your best weapons against Atlanteans and Heimdall gives you the best choise for two of them (towers and MU).

Because of Atlanteans difficulties to take down buildings, they will be in a lot of trouble against a tower push


TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)

During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.

ESO: TORDENSKIOLD
posted 16 February 2004 06:11 AM EDT (US)     3 / 74  
Even though norse were probably the most easy going civ on vanilla(cause of dwarves which enabled noobs to have easier balanced eco and to keep their tc busy easier), they are the hardest civ on aom tt.

Its harder to use autoque on your tc with norse. And norse cant boom at all(cant get a second tc fast) which again is a disadvantage for noobs(who generally arent agressive enough). With norse is, either you are agressive or you lose, simply as that. Sub 1700rated ppl usually arent agressive enough. They cant raid effectively, they just like having their army standing idle watching at the little birdies and smelling the roses.

Maybe you should also note that against rushers, getting ulfsarks in the start is essential cause all other norse units have crazy training time.

Also baldr is a no brainer now. You have no other choice. Either baldr or you lose. That ragnarok is the only way that norse can be competitive late game.

Nice guide.


ESO name : Relaxing

Eisai ellinas? Tote ela sto www.noobwars.gr.

[This message has been edited by NIB (edited 02-16-2004 @ 06:26 AM).]

posted 16 February 2004 07:42 AM EDT (US)     4 / 74  
Can you train me Deano as I realy need some idea of a bo and I find myself lost when I stop raiding

Ex member of the good clan VnX
Ex member of the better clan PW
Applicant member for Orion
posted 16 February 2004 08:02 AM EDT (US)     5 / 74  
Good job deano nice to see a guide on odin.

Quote:

-Know when to quit. Like I said above, people catch on. But at some point, you just aren't going to cause any more real damage. At that point move on to other things.

Good point. Once you achieved an economic advantage by means of raiding you reached your goal. If your economy is enough bigger than his it's time for a more destructive approach such as a heavy attack. On the other hand you shouldn't give up raiding too soon. Even if the enemy's defences seem to strong for a succesful raid you can still find weak places by constantly distracting him.

Quote:

Its harder to use autoque on your tc with norse.

True but on the other hand it's a good way of learning to use autoqueu. A non-norse player who starts using norse might find it very hard to use autoqueu and still create dwarfs and gatherers at the right time. However, a norse player who masters autoqueu will find it very easy to play greek/eggy/attie occasionally.


Member of NoFx
ESO: NoFx__Cymophane from now on
My website: www.cymophane.tk with Odin recordings and some more
NoFx site: www.nofx.clans.cc
posted 16 February 2004 08:11 AM EDT (US)     6 / 74  
Great guide Deano!

.¸¸.· · .¸¸.·´ §hïvå | RágeOfHaemòn · .¸¸.· · .¸¸.·
« . ° ¤ Scenario Designer | Woad Creations ¤ º . »
posted 16 February 2004 09:46 AM EDT (US)     7 / 74  
Great guide, Odin is not dead, as some say.

ESO: Orion_Zorn

Proud Member of the Orion Clan!

"makes sense because if your running a race against a monkey and you die from a heart attack i don't think it should be a draw. the monkey actaully wins by default" - Sirgrayhorn

posted 16 February 2004 09:54 AM EDT (US)     8 / 74  
No Odin isn't dead, he's just on life support at the moment.
posted 16 February 2004 09:56 AM EDT (US)     9 / 74  
Nice guide, man.
posted 16 February 2004 02:51 PM EDT (US)     10 / 74  
Odin is far from dead. His FU jarls lose from very specific units with very specific god paths. There are occasions, where FU jarls beat FU prodromos/camels/spearmen/elephants. And even on occasions where your enemy can beat your jarls, you can counter the unit that can beat your jarls more effectively than your enemy can counter your jarls.

You can beat ppl just by massing odin's FU jarls and fgs. Uber strong combo against eggies, since priests cant scratch fgs(80% peirce armor), and jarls pretty much own everything egyptian. Then mercs come in to play . But still.


ESO name : Relaxing

Eisai ellinas? Tote ela sto www.noobwars.gr.

posted 16 February 2004 06:19 PM EDT (US)     11 / 74  
Nah Odin is still an ok civ to use, but really needs a boost. Deano got to 1800 TT with Odin so he isnt that bad. Anyway about ur sig deano, its got the wrong link in it.

supporter of Crystal Palace Football club
Leader of The VnX clan!


ESO Name: Rulezzz
posted 16 February 2004 07:13 PM EDT (US)     12 / 74  
great guide. odin is not dead, at least sub1800. odin has decent win % sub 1800 so i don't think it's a noob problem. aspiring norse players need to learn to build jarls, huskarls, and ballistas.

fh

posted 16 February 2004 07:23 PM EDT (US)     13 / 74  
actually 1700+ odin is horrible beating only three civs, gaia, hades and zues. As a matter of fact odin is the worst civ in the game besides gaia at the 1700+ level. It is a noob problem.

Hmmm I guess I should have added he is tied with zues. So 1700+ Gaia is the worst, followed by Odin/Zeus who are tied.

[This message has been edited by CelticRaider (edited 02-16-2004 @ 07:26 PM).]

posted 16 February 2004 07:33 PM EDT (US)     14 / 74  
wtf, Odin beats Hades

Everyone got AIDS and shit
posted 16 February 2004 07:42 PM EDT (US)     15 / 74  
Great guide Deano

{¯ˆ·._.LoH_Legolas._.·ˆ¯}

{¯ˆ·._.Lego_My_Eggo._.·ˆ¯}

posted 16 February 2004 07:42 PM EDT (US)     16 / 74  
Odin is by far the strongest norse vs hades due to the uber hill fort units. Jarls/husk/ta are a great combo vs Hades, esp when your Jarls and Husks have a large hp bonus.

If you think Hades is tough for Odin, try beating him with Loki

posted 16 February 2004 09:00 PM EDT (US)     17 / 74  
I'm glad to see you all appreciate my post. I'll try to get another one up when I have the time, I kind of rushed this one.
posted 17 February 2004 01:10 AM EDT (US)     18 / 74  

Quote:

Loki: You will be rushed 99% of the time, and I can assure you that you will lose 9/10 times.

While I agree you will get rushed that often I find the defeatist attitude toward Loki didn't fit with the general soundness of your other advise. Loki has no real advantage other than free myth units. You can match his hersir production and he has the challenge of fighting far from home. That second ulf you mentioned in archaic is a real charm and constant scouting of your base's periphery will find most forward builds. As you astutely pointed out, interdicting the fb is the best approach. His lonely ulf in archaic makes a nice target so send over both ulfs or even a villie or two to chase him away. That puts a huge dent in the early rush plan. Also, while fortifying your towers is a good idea, their placement is too far from the TC to place your rax there. With the Kronos rush the best placement I have found is to have the far side of the rax with-in the TC range. Most rushers will brave un-upped tower fire, but almost all avoid TC fire. In my opinion, there is no correlation betweening winning and what civy you are facing. Push your classical time up, spam hersirs, and search and destroy the fb. Loki is totally beatable for an Odin player.

Otherwise nice article with some very useful information.

posted 17 February 2004 02:05 AM EDT (US)     19 / 74  
While you make a good point, I just want to show you some problems with the Loki vs Odin match up.

Loki:

10% Faster Longhouses
Cheaper MUs
10% Faster Hersirs
Hersirs Summon MUs

Odin:

Regenerating Units
Ravens
Hill Fort Units get 20% more HP except Jarls, they get 10%

These are their military bonuses. Now an average Loki vs Odin match up is going to be TA/Einherjar/Hersir Wars, who ever spams the most wins.

Now, Loki can:

Make TA and Hersirs faster than the Odin.
Make Einherjar at the cost of less favor.
Have Faster Hersirs.
Get Free Einherjar through Hersir combat.

Odin can:

Regerate his army between battles.
Scout out his opponents Forward Base to see what he's making.

Now if you are playing a decent Loki, Regeration won't even come into play becase your army will never be idle.

Odin is at a disadvantage from the moment Loki hits Classical, there is no avoiding it. I don't mean to discourage Odin players, but I'm being realistic. And realistically speaking, Norse suck in general vs rushes, and Odin doesn't even have any real Classical bonuses that help him to counter the rush, mainly Loki's.

posted 17 February 2004 02:11 AM EDT (US)     20 / 74  
tbarak, with all due respect your way off base on the odin loki matchup. Loki has many bonuses that cause him to rape odin. Free myth, cheaper myth, and most important, +10% rax training time. Odin cannot handle all the myth loki brings to the table.

All a competent loki has to do is make 4 or 5 hersir, einherjar and mass ta, and odin is in deep dog doo-doo. Einherjars boost actually make ta a viable weapon, they are the ultimate meat shield. Then right in the middle of getting smashed by the ta, bam your myth unit is dead and loki pops a free one.

Granted I have had quite a bit of success against loki as odin, but I have been much more succesful as loki against odin. Its almost free points.

If you wanted to tell me Thor matches up well, I can buy that one, but against Loki, Odin is a dead man.

posted 17 February 2004 03:46 AM EDT (US)     21 / 74  
Great guide, but I don't see why Odin should spam Einherjars against Loki! Loki players spam Hersir to get those Free MUs...and Hersirs destroy Einherjar unless you micro heavily...
posted 17 February 2004 03:51 AM EDT (US)     22 / 74  
no odin maks taxmen/hersir to defend, ups towers and raids your unprotected econ. Believe me it sucks.

R.I.P Shiva
posted 17 February 2004 05:39 AM EDT (US)     23 / 74  
Maybe I was just lucky, but I played 3 games against Loki and won all 3 of them (1700 - 1750 level).
What I did was trying to advance quick and get RC and TA (also in that order). I also normally have 2 - 3 Hersir (I make them while advancing to the next age).
When he attacks I mainly focus on attacking his hersir, so you won't have those MU's popping up. I keep my hersir in the back, because their main use is to attack MU's. And it really worked. RC do a great job against Hersirs and TA.
And I agree, making Einherjars against a Loki Hersir rush is really not a good idea. Later on they can be a great help, but not early on against all the Hersirs...

- speak and show yourself -
posted 17 February 2004 12:51 PM EDT (US)     24 / 74  

Quote:

Hmmm I guess I should have added he is tied with zues. So 1700+ Gaia is the worst, followed by Odin/Zeus who are tied.

I just read on Josey Wales website that Zeus is a very good all around god to play. he is playing Zeus at the top 20 level, so he cant be that bad.


ESO: Orion_Zorn

Proud Member of the Orion Clan!

"makes sense because if your running a race against a monkey and you die from a heart attack i don't think it should be a draw. the monkey actaully wins by default" - Sirgrayhorn

posted 17 February 2004 12:52 PM EDT (US)     25 / 74  
You guys make some descent arguments but I am not totally convinced. If you let Loki get his fb established, yes, your task will be difficult. But again your fight is before classical, and if you concentrate on breaking up that FB the rush is dead. Most Loki rushers that have their plans foiled like that simply don't have a good long game. I've beaten enough Loki players to know this works.

Against Loki I like to make two temples and a two raxes in order to get those Hersirs out. The Hersir is a great unit against MUs and just having them nearby discourages Loki from bringing his MU to bear. If the FB is established I raid like hell and watch how fast Loki will withdraw his forces to defend his town. It seems counter intuitive to send your forces away from the fight, but it's very effective. Loki players are notorious for leaving their bases unattended and your raiders can have a field day. When Loki withdraws his forces to defend his town you can raze the fb.

All I am saying is that all things being equal- skill level- I personally don't find Odin at a disadvantage. To say as Odin you will loose 9 times out of ten to Loki is just too much of an exaggeration. I know from personal experience that this is too strong a statement.

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