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Topic Subject: A Guide to the Avenger
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posted 20 March 2004 10:18 PM EDT (US)   
Guide to the Avenger

The Avenger is a Mythic Age Egyptian Myth Unit which you have access to through Horus. It has the Body of a man, and head of a Hawk, and is considerably larger than human soldiers. Armed with two knives, they have a melee attack, as well as a Special Recharging Whirlwind Attack…

Behold, the fire riseth in Abydos and it cometh; I cause it to come, the eye of Horus. It is set in order upon they brow, O Osiris Khaenti-Amenti; it is set in the shrine and riseth on my brow -The Pyramid Texts

Avenger
Food Cost: 250
Favor Cost: 30
Population Cost: 4
Training Time: 24 Seconds
Hack Damage: 28
Bonus Damage: 3x to Myth Units
Hitpoints: 600
Hack Armor: 60
Pierce Armor: 40
Crush Armor: 80
Speed: 5.30
Line of Sight: 18
Special Whirlwind Attack Hack Damage: 70
Special Whirlwind Attack Recharge Time: 10 Seconds
Special Whirlwind Attack Range: Relatively Short, about a human-soldier’s-length

Avengers are affected by-
Perseus Stone Gaze
Medusa Stone Gaze
Frost Giant Freeze Attack
Lampades Psycho Attack
Argus Acid Kill
Polyphemus Gore
Minotaur Gore
Mummy Minion Infestation
Centaur Accurate Shot
Chiron Accurate Shot
Kastor Gore
Chimera Flame Attack
Satyr Multiple Spear Throw

TESTS

Avenger vs. 1 champion hoplite
Avenger is left with 541 HP. It uses its Special Twirl Attack 2 times.
That’s 59 total damage by the hoplite.

Avenger vs. 2 Champion Hoplites
Avenger is left with 429 HP. It uses its special Twirl Attack 3 times.
That’s 80.5 total damage per hoplite.

Avenger vs. 3 champion hoplites
Avenger is left with 277 HP. It uses its Special Twirl Attack 4 times.
That’s 111 total damage per hoplite

Avenger vs. 3 Champion Hypaspists
Avenger has 436 HP left. Strangely, its twirl does nearly twice the amont of damage to adjacent hyps then hoplites. It may have something to do with range.

Avenger vs. 4 Champion Toxetes
Avenger is left with 375 HP left. It twirls 3 times. So far, this is the most positive test result.


Avenger vs. Fire Giant
Avenger wins with 128 HP left. It twirls 2 times. Now thats ownage.


Avenger vs. Chimera
Avenger barely, just barely dies. Chimera is left with 10 out of its 800 HP. Very close match.

Avenger vs. 5 Anubites
Ganging up is not fair, is it? 4 Anubites survive, all about half injured. Avenger does not do well when ganged up on.

Avenger vs. Villager
Avenger kills the villager in 3 seconds. It uses its Twirl Attack and regular attack once.


MULTIPLE AVENGER TESTS

2 Avengers vs. 6 Champion Hoplites
Both Avengers are left, one with 293 HP, one with 294 HP. They both Twirl 3 times.

2 Avengers vs. 2 Chimerae
1 Chimera is left with 70 HP.

2 Avengers vs. 6 Champion Hypaspists
Both Avengers survive. One has 405 HP the other has 525 HP. They each twirl 3 times.


2 Avengers vs. 8 Champion Toxotes
One Avenger is untouched, the other has 238 HP left.


2 Avengers vs. 5 anubites
One Avenger has 491 HP left, the other has 46 HP left. Avengers are good for taking out masses of weak myth units.


ANALYSIS
It only takes 4 Champion Hoplites to kill an Avenger. Because of their high hitpoints and armor, Hoplites can withstand the Avenger's attacks without being torn to shreds. On the other hand, weak Egyptian infantry make a really tasty Target for our Hawk-Headed friend. The results for fighting the Chimera were astounding. The Avenger died, but the Chimera had only 10 out of its 800 HP left. Both have 3x bonus damage vs. MUs, Chimeras have quite a bit better hitpoints (Chimera has 800, Avenger has 600) and avenger has considerably better attack (Chimera has 20, Avenger has 28). However, the Avenger totally anihalaited (i cant spell that word) the Fire Giant.
Also, Avengers slaughter anubites and other weak myth units because of thier poor armor. If ganged up on however, Avengers will be made quick work of by swarms of anubites, prometheans, etc. as shown in the single Avenger's test vs. 5 anubites. If you keep Avengers in groups of 2-5, all that twirling will add up and you will win.
When avenger fought 5 hoplites (i didnt put the result in the test), he did his whirlwind attack 6 times, which brought the two hoplites that he didnt melee attack down to 110 HP. Thats a loss of 55 hitpoints for each, approximnately 9 damage per twirl. But they have 52% hack armor, so, 18 damage per twirl.
But when he fought 1 ulfsark with 0% hack armor (i used modify protounit trigger), the Avenger did 70 damage. So i think that the unit he is directly attacking gets 70, while adjacent units get 18-30 or so.
Also, hoplites are sort of ranged, if you notice. I mean, they dont come up as close as other units to attack.
Hypaspists, which have the exact same armor as hoplites, recieved MUCH MORE damage than hoplites from the Avenger's twirl. They were injured 15 HP while Hoplites were only injured 9.
1 Avenger beats 4 Toxotes, bbut whats more is the fact that 2 Avengers can beat 8 even more badly.
Avengers maybe a little on the expensive side in terms of favor. 30 is a lot, although if you have your pharoah empower the temple to gods it will come much faster. The food cost is excellent however, and its a relief not to have to pay gold for a good Egyptian myth unit. They also have a phenominal recharge time (10 seconds) in fact they use it twice to kill a champion hoplite.
The most positive results, however were vs a villager!!!! Avengers kill a villager in 3 seconds, using their whirlwind once and regular knife attack once. This is amazing, and makes Avengers possibly one of the best villager killing units in the game.
Lastly, Avengers are slightly massable. They are expensive, but very deadly in groups of 3 or 4 or more

VS HUMAN SOLDIERS

Greek- As shown in the tests, Avengers are relatively ineffective vs. Hoplites. They are a bit better against hypaspists, but are still beaten rather easily. In the ingame help (which is often an innacurate thing to play by), it says that Avengers should be countered by archers. Vs. Greek, Avengers can infact slaughter archers. Take an avenger into a group of low HP toxotes and let 'er rip. As you can see from the tests, Avengers kill 4 toxotes with ease, and have over half their HP left. And 2 can beat 8 toxotes even worse. But an Avenger is beaten by 4 Hoplites. This proves that Avenegers are only good vs poorly armored units. Just make sure that the toxotes are focusing fire on something else, such as war elephants, because Avengers have poor pierce armor. Just watch out for heroes, particularly Polyphemus, Perseus and Bellerophon.

Atlantean- Avengers are good vs. Atlantean. Nothing stands out in particular. Heroes are not a huge threat, however arcus and turma heroes are potentially dangerous espeically with avenger's low pierce armor. Just make sure you have slingers to help out in that situation.

Egyptian- Avengers tear apart weak Eggy soldiers, i mean they absolutely mow them down. The problem is priests. They will kill Avengers with ease. So only make Avengers if youre sure he's not massing priests.

Norse- OK vs. Norse too, of course hersirs are something to worry about, but just have CA's pick them off. Also watch out for Jarls. Avengers are probably not the best option vs. Norse

VS MYTH UNITS
Use medium-sized groups of Avengers to take out weak Myth units and human units. The special whirlwind attack alone from 5 Avengers will kill most human units instantly.

Greek- Not great vs. greekl myth units. Chimerae beat them (barely), and Medusae beat them with stone gaze. However, they do beat Colossi.

Atlantean- Great for killing automatons and weak stuff like that. But watch out for lamps, you dont want your own avenger suddenly twirling on your own guys.

Egyptian- Good vs Egyptian, petsuchos slaughter avengers though.

Norse- Avengers mow down Norse MU's but their jarls and hersirs are too deadly. Its a risk, but sometimes its worth it. Avengers will brutalize Fire Giants.

VS BUILDINGS
Avengers do about 20 damage to buildings once you factor in standard building armor. This is fairly good, but because of their low pierce armor, i would not suggest using them against fortresses. However, they are good for taking out lone towers.


So overall, id say Avengers are best for villager killing, and myth unit hunting. And of course vs weak infantry and archers with distracted fire.
Aveners are ONLY good against poorly armored units (40 hack armor and under). This is why they will brutalize Eggy troops, as well as Greek Toxotes.
Use groups of them to kill weak myth units.
BTW, use Avengers with Eclipse, their speed is astronomical. Have a bunch of them raiding during Eclipse and you will kill every last enemy villager .

Thnx for reading, i hope you liked my guide


I told you I'd be back.

[This message has been edited by SilverOsirisAOM (edited 03-21-2004 @ 01:11 PM).]

Replies:
posted 20 March 2004 10:35 PM EDT (US)     1 / 30  
I suggest you run.
posted 20 March 2004 10:41 PM EDT (US)     2 / 30  
Not that this is a bad guide, but why does everyone have to do these things on the same bloody thing. Someone needs to write a guide to thinking up topics for guides.

Everyone got AIDS and shit
posted 20 March 2004 10:50 PM EDT (US)     3 / 30  
Good guide. I don't see many avengers used during games but they are tough SOB's. Maybe someone could be a guide editor; Guides submitted to them for approval before release on the forums?

2nd place is the first loser
posted 20 March 2004 10:59 PM EDT (US)     4 / 30  

Quote:

I suggest you run.


I suggest you shut up.
People dot use Avengers that much because most people dont normally go with Horus.
I worked 2 bloody hours on this, so why dont you actually say something positive? Should i not have made tihs because im not AC or MK????? Is that what youre saying???? I hope not

I told you I'd be back.
posted 20 March 2004 11:01 PM EDT (US)     5 / 30  

Quote:

Avenger vs 1 Champion Hoplite


hmmm, why did you let the enemy get to mythic, they have champ. hoplites! you should have kept the pressure on them, like AC does, they only get to classic on his... lol, also

Quote:

Avenger vs. Chimera
Avenger barely, just barely dies. Chimera is left with 10 out of its 800 HP. Very close match.


thats impressive, so two avengers can take down the mighty "chimera tyrant"?interesting, it takes alot of hops to do that... HAND

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posted 20 March 2004 11:04 PM EDT (US)     6 / 30  

Quote:

hmmm, why did you let the enemy get to mythic, they have champ. hoplites! you should have kept the pressure on them, like AC does, they only get to classic on his... lol, also


I hope youre being sarcastic. If AC does his guides like that i think they all need to be recalled. The unwritten rule is that whatever age the myth unit is from, you give the enemy upgrades through that age.
I didnt test vs Chimera Tyrant, i wasnt really thinking :P. But fighting a regular Chimera is a closer battle, and most people dont resaerch Chimera tyrant anyway.

I told you I'd be back.
posted 20 March 2004 11:06 PM EDT (US)     7 / 30  
the problem is that everybody is making guides... but its ok, your guide is fine. But you, guide creators, should make other types of guides, too - campaign strategies, ramdom maps, tips - not only about mus.
posted 20 March 2004 11:06 PM EDT (US)     8 / 30  
I made a Hetairoi guide but no one seemd to care about it... im gonna bump it....

I told you I'd be back.
posted 21 March 2004 02:07 AM EDT (US)     9 / 30  
The tests arent good.
You always tested with one avenger.
1 avenger can't beat 4 hoplites. but.....
2 avengers can beat 8 hoplites.

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Check my site out
There will be soon many content

posted 21 March 2004 03:01 AM EDT (US)     10 / 30  
The tests are good.
The guide is good.
Add your own tests as an 'aside'.
If you wanna be the permutation monster and test every conceivable combination, get on it, otherwises, leave him alone. Like he said he spent two hours on it, if you didn't like it why'd you read it and bother to comment>>>???????

2nd place is the first loser
posted 21 March 2004 03:11 AM EDT (US)     11 / 30  
Can you tell me why people don't go Horus? I play teams with my buddy and he brought out Avengers one game and they were deadly, but he never did it again. Why? Always he has Anubites, sometimes Rocs.... I guess I should play as egypt for a while......
I suggest you run out and do some more guides! (Nothing wrong with this one)

2nd place is the first loser
posted 21 March 2004 03:49 AM EDT (US)     12 / 30  
I donot see avenger that great for raiding. Anubite is better. and the Myth tech give by horus to the spearmens are awsome.
I compared avenger and Hekagaints against a titan for same POP slots. 5 Hekagaints took out a 1000 hitpoints straight from the titan before going down and 6 Avenger does the almost the same (1000 +). But Hekagaints have 25 hack and 30 crush but avenger has only 28 hack and lasted a bit longer(That was impressive). This way u can use it as a meat shield against a Titan and use priest (even without Nephthys tech) and still slaughter the titan. Thats the only purpose I can think of. Besides that they are effective against collosus and some melee Myth units. I donot feel its right to compare any myth units with hopolite. They just withstand any amount of hack damage. What matter with them is the special like minotaur or cyclops.
posted 21 March 2004 07:51 AM EDT (US)     13 / 30  
Hm, pretty nice. See, when ArtemisChimera makes a guide, he goes over every single detail of that unit. You did an excellent job of following up with the Avenger; but there are a few things lacking. Guides like this one are the guides of slackers. You went over the easy stuff, without bothering to waste your time on going over the stuff that counts, the stuff that no one else knows.

Are you up to a few suggestions?

  • You didn't do any tests on his special vs multiple units. The AoMH Unit stats says that "[the Avenger does] 25 hack damage to all adjacent units. Requires 10 seconds to recharge." Now, try doing a test of 5 hoplite vs an Avenger.
  • How effective is this MU vs buildings? Make sure you give the enemy the Building upgrades, Avenger are Mythic units..appropriate upgrades must be given.
  • Do a test of Avenger vs the Fire Giant, how does he fare there?
  • You did tests vs Hoplite, but the Avenger has 60% hack armor! Why didn't you do any vs Toxotes? Avenger have 40% pierce! This would make them extremely vulnerable against arrow fire.

    Quote:

    Avengers kill a villager in 3 seconds, using their whirlwind once and regular knife attack once...makes Avengers possibly...villager killing units....

    One of the best, but not the best. Chimera Tyrant (with the upgrade) bring Villagers down to a phenominal 1 HP with their special attack..! Go hunting villies in Mythic age, 2 Chimera will chew up 10 villagers with their special alone.


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  • posted 21 March 2004 09:20 AM EDT (US)     14 / 30  
    I very rarley use avenegers (though i often take horus), however when i do i am often impressed, keep em away form heroes and they fare rather well...i find they work best vs eggy and norse (surprisingly), the onli problems r hersir and jarls as TA do ahck damage, Avengers r VERY good at killing TA!

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    posted 21 March 2004 09:56 AM EDT (US)     15 / 30  
    Shiva- I decided not to put a few tests in my guide, but i actually did do them. When avenger fought 5 hoplites, he did his whirlwind attack 6 times, which brought the two hoplites that he didnt melee attack down to 110 HP. Thats a loss of 55 hitpoints for each, approximnately 9 damage per twirl. But they have 52% hack armor, so, 18 damage per twirl.
    But when he fought 1 ulfsark with 0% hack armor (i used modify protounit trigger), the Avenger did 70 damage. So i think that the unit he is directly attacking gets 70, while adjacent units get 18-30 or so.
    Also, hoplites are sort of ranged, if you notice. I mean, they dont come up as close as other units to attack. I will test with hypaspists or huskarls, and see if theres a difference.

    I told you I'd be back.
    posted 21 March 2004 10:24 AM EDT (US)     16 / 30  
    Now see, that is the kind of stuff that helps. Include every single detail, and explain why you did them.

    .¸¸.· · .¸¸.·´ §hïvå | RágeOfHaemòn · .¸¸.· · .¸¸.·
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    posted 21 March 2004 12:10 PM EDT (US)     17 / 30  
    OK, ive added 8 more tests, some more input.

    I told you I'd be back.

    [This message has been edited by SilverOsirisAOM (edited 03-21-2004 @ 12:57 PM).]

    posted 21 March 2004 12:57 PM EDT (US)     18 / 30  
    And dont worry, all the pictures added up only equal like 40k.

    I told you I'd be back.
    posted 21 March 2004 01:28 PM EDT (US)     19 / 30  
    I think that this is a good guide. I don't care who does them as long as they're decent (but I'm always grateful to those that take the time!).

    Thanks espesh to Soap, AC/CA, DP and ManticoreKiller.


    I've done a lot of things that I'm not proud of.
    And the things that I am proud of are disgusting.
    posted 21 March 2004 03:15 PM EDT (US)     20 / 30  
    Wow great guide i have always liked avengers but didnt know they were this deadly keep up the good work!

    a goose bunrning a day keeps the boredom away!
    posted 21 March 2004 05:13 PM EDT (US)     21 / 30  
    Slightly massable!
    I find it hard to put less then 10 in my army!
    A comment: This is very useful with a combination of archers because these guys can take a lot of pain. When your infantry and camels are all but dead your Avengers are fighting on while your chariots shoot up da bad guys.

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    but don't let the game play you" -me

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    posted 21 March 2004 05:23 PM EDT (US)     22 / 30  

    Quote:

    But when he fought 1 ulfsark with 0% hack armor (i used modify protounit trigger), the Avenger did 70 damage. So i think that the unit he is directly attacking gets 70, while adjacent units get 18-30 or so.


    You could get a better idea of what the special does by using five of the modified ulfsarks, rather than just one

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    posted 21 March 2004 05:29 PM EDT (US)     23 / 30  
    I could, to figure out what the attack does to adjacent units. but i was seeing what it did directly to the unit the Avenger was attacking.

    I told you I'd be back.
    posted 21 March 2004 06:21 PM EDT (US)     24 / 30  
    Nice guide,
    if you added the test vs buildings i would say this is better that AC and MK(your right, rooks and up usually manage to get to mythic age or atleast heroic,)

    JUST A SUGGESTION, NOT A COMMENT!..:maybe you should make the ests vs heavy units , eg. heavy hoplite instead of champion hoplite

    posted 21 March 2004 06:22 PM EDT (US)     25 / 30  
    i didnt actually write the test results for vs. buildings. But i did do them.
    I figure Champion units raises the least controversey.

    I told you I'd be back.
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