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Topic Subject: A Guide to the Hades Shade
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posted 09 April 2004 11:16 AM EDT (US)   
A Guide to the Hades Shade

by ManticoreKiller

To my surprise, this unit stormed ahead to win the vote for this week's unit guide. I hope all of you read ChimeraArtemis' colourful and informative guide to the Petsuchos last week. Much has been said whether this actually is a Myth Unit. As someone pointed out to me last week, in the proto files, all it is classified as is a military unit. Things get even more confusing when you take a look at the tech trees where the green colour coding this unit receives actually classifies it as a god power! I have been inclined to believe that this can be termed a Myth unit for the simple fact that is sure as hell isn't a hero, it dosen't look like a human unit and it is obviously isn't a civilian unit. I'm sure all of you have something to say on this topic so I await some second opinions. In my opinion, I'll accept this as a MU if it takes some extra damage from heroes. I'll come to that in the guide. Coming to the unit itself- what could be bad with a free unit? As I'll show later on in the guide, it isn't exactly free.

The Unit


Shade (Hades free (Myth ??) Unit)
Melee Combat unit
Available to Hades players. When a Hades player's human soldier dies, he/she has a 20% chance that a shade will appear at his temple.
Is upgraded slightly (+9 hp and +1 hack damage) everytime the player advances to a new age.

Stats:

Archaic Age
HP: 90
Hack Damage: 6
Hack Armour: 20%
Pierce Armour: 20%
Crush Armour: 99%
Speed: 4.00

Classical Age
HP: 99
Hack Damage: 7
Hack Armour: 20%
Pierce Armour: 20%
Crush Armour: 99%
Speed: 4.00

Heroic Age
HP: 108
Hack Damage: 8
Hack Armour: 20%
Pierce Armour: 20%
Crush Armour: 99%
Speed: 4.00

Mythic Age
HP: 117
Hack Damage: 9
Hack Armour: 20%
Pierce Armour: 20%
Crush Armour: 99%
Speed: 4.00

Bonuses: None

Cost: 1 pop

Special Attack/Ability: None

This is, without a shadow of a doubt the weirdest unit in the game. Before going into the stats, I'd like to explain how they are created. What the game manual says is that if one of your Hades human soldiers dies, you have a 20% chance that a shade will appear at your temple. This does not mean that you get 1 shade for every 5 human units you lose. What this means is that is for every human unit you lose, there is a 1 in 5 chance that you will get a shade at your temple. This means that theoretically, (if you are insanely lucky), you could have 10 shades for 10 human units killed. In practice, however, it is unlikely you will ever have more than 3 or less than 1 (none) for every 10 human units killed. One point worth noting is that you could press the delete key after selecting a unit, thus killing it, and still have it produce a shade.
As a unit, it is very ordinary indeed. The Classical Age shade is probably the most competetive version. You can only really get one in Archaic (from your scout) and it's too weak in Heroic and Mythic. The attack and hp could just be termed reasonable but for the atrocius armour ratings. These things die very, very quickly. One more thing that surprised me was the 1 pop cost which, quite frankly, sucks. I'll explain that statement later. Anyway, lets see whether the shade has any value at all as a combat unit.

Tests

1. vs Infantry - 1 Zeus Hoplite (126hp 10 hack damage 41% hack armour):
In this test, I send up a classical age shade agianst a hoplite. It is worth noting that the shade attacks once every 2 seconds. This means that it actually does twice the amount of damage indicated in the stats per shot. The hoplite does 9 hp worth of damage to the shade per shot. The shade does 8 damage to the hoplite per shot but only 4 per second. Net result, the hoplite kills the shade in 11 seconds losing 40 hp in the process. However, if two shades (pop equivalent) attack the hoplite together, they kill the hoplite fairly easily without losing even one of them. On a pop equivalent basis, the shades beat all classical human units. Its only when you get to heroic and mythic when the stronger units like War Elephants, Jarls, Fanatics and Myrmindons beat the shades on a pop equivalent basis. On the whole- individually very poor but quite decent on a population equivalent basis. Of course all MUs beat the shade even with pop equivalence (eg. 4 shades v 1 Minotaur) even though it is worth noting that none of the MU special attacks effect the shades.

2. vs Heroes - 1 Ra Priest (99hp 4 pierce damage 23% hack armour 16 range x6.5 bonus vs MUs):
This test should prove whether the shade can be classified as an MU. The answer is a clear NO. First of all, all the priest throws at the shade are pebbles, not the stars he throws at MUs. The shade sustains 3 hp damage per second while it does 11 hp damage per shot to the priest killing him in 19 seconds with about 40 hp left. I think this settles the argument about how to classify the shade. It is definitely NOT a Myth Unit.

3. Group Test- 10 Medium Hoplites vs 15 Medium Murmillos
Let us see if the shade can make any difference at all to a battle. Firstly, lets see how the hoplites did without the shades' help.
The hoplites lose in 30 seconds with 11 murmillos left.
Lets see if adding 4 shades to the fray makes any difference-
The hoplites still lose but they leave ony 7 murmillos. This test shows that the shades do make a difference to combat. Because they are free, they can be used to draw enemy fire.

Suggested Usgae

There is very little a shade can do in battle so it makes no point to suggest civ specific usage. One thing I can think of is to bolster you meatshield. As a Hades player, you would be pretty crazy if you did not utilize a large number of ranged units in your army. As a meatshield unit, a shade will go down really quickly, but your hades ranged units are so powerful that even a second or so delay could allow you to pick off more enemy units. One advantage of using a shade as a meatshield is the fact that things like the Hekagigantes' ground pound and the Battle Boar's spinning kick have no effect on them at all so you can still hold a meatshield while your stronger units recover their positions.

Sometimes, 2 or 3 shades can make a difference in a battle. The reason for this is more phsycological than practical. The shades look more impressive than the human soldiers (especially pre heroic). They will thus serve to draw fire away from more important human units in your formation.

The best use of the shade (in my opinion) is to use them to guard gold mines, hunting areas, settlements or bushes from villagers. They have a good line of sight with which they can definitely harrass civilian units and can help preserve such valuable resources from others by also providing an alert mecahnism to enemy encroachment to allow you to send additional forces to the spot. This strat falls flat on its face against Atlantean players though because their citizens are more than a match for the shades. I've heard some people suggest using the shade for raiding. I don't quite agree with this because it is too slow to raid with. Raiding is one of the most important facets of winning in AOM and it must always be entrusted to cavalry, ranged units or fast MUs which are perfectly suited to the task.

Because of its very low pierce armour, the shade is almost completely useless against buildings.

Conclusion

On the whole, this is not a totally useless unit. Using it in the ways I described above gives it some utility. One real use is to make your force 'look' more impressive than it actually is against noobs or people who would instinctively concentrate all their firepower on the shades.

In my opinion, the real negative as far as the unit is concerned is it's cost. Wait a minute! did I just say cost!! Yes, I mean the 1 pop cost per shade. True, you might not have to spend any resources on it but if you look at it closely, it turns out to be pretty expensive for what it does (or fails to do). Taking the 1 pop slot in isolation, it could alternatively be used to train another villager. Most experts tend to agree than managing a good economy is central to winning in AOM. A few villagers in place of the shades will definitely add to your economy in the long run. I really think that the shades should not cost us any pop slots at all. ES should look at it in their next patch.

On a final note, this will be my final AOM guide for some time. I'm taking a break from AOM and trying out some other games. If someone else wants to continue doing the Greek and Norse MU guides, best of luck to you.

Replies:
posted 09 April 2004 11:27 AM EDT (US)     1 / 64  
as always manticore killer a very informatuive and useful guide and i was surprised how bad the shade was i always thought it an ok unit and it being a weird unit in the fact that it can only be classed as a god power is interesting to know. I used to always attack shades with heroes and now i know there is no point to that. edit:sorry i didnt read the final bit. And i may be willing to spare some time for doing some myth unit guides.
Everybody choose any myth unit you want any civ any age!

Hi people my favourite unit is the *drum roll* is the hersir because Loki's hersir can really give you an advantage in a battle with free fire giants appearing out of nowhere heehee

[This message has been edited by blessedknight (edited 04-09-2004 @ 11:28 AM).]

posted 09 April 2004 11:29 AM EDT (US)     2 / 64  
Excellent work. The shades are pretty useful then...
posted 09 April 2004 11:36 AM EDT (US)     3 / 64  
exellent!
sad to see you are leaving aom, but who knows you might be back soner than you expect

peace and love.

age of myth have turned inte age of isis. sad but true

[This message has been edited by the mouse (edited 04-09-2004 @ 11:37 AM).]

posted 09 April 2004 11:40 AM EDT (US)     4 / 64  
I can't see why anyone would think they're not useful, considering they're free. Of course they make a difference in a battle, since they can attack. They also mean that your armies are really a bit "cheaper" than other civs' units - that is, when you buy a Hoplite, you also get 1/5th of a Shade for that price. Thus you can spend more on economy or upgrades.

One important thing about Shades that wasn't mentioned is what happens if you delete your Temple. If you delete your Temple, you don't lose all the Shades. Instead, they sort of accumulate in some parralel dimension, and when you build a new Temple, they *all* come out at once. This can easily give you 30 more millitary units on top of your pop limit. (The Shades aren't stopped by you being housed in either). It might be worth deleting your temple late in the game, if you got all the myth techs you wanted and you think MU's won't help much.


Programmer on 0 A.D., author of Norse Wars, co-author of Fort Wars.

[This message has been edited by Matei (edited 04-09-2004 @ 11:41 AM).]

posted 09 April 2004 12:46 PM EDT (US)     5 / 64  
Shades are nice in Classical, but I truly hate them in late game. In a late game, you usually have all the resources you need, except population.

So I find myself pop'ed out, unable to create iron-weapon and armor Champion Toxotes, Gasts, and Hoplites (not to mention those great Mythic Greek MUs), because I've got all these wimpy shades filling my pop slots!

May I suggest that the best use of Shades in late game is suicidal scouting and raiding missions. Kill them off as quickly as possible...

posted 09 April 2004 01:49 PM EDT (US)     6 / 64  
Shades are great for attacking Fortresses or villagers late game, and hoping that they won't last long , but do enough damage in the meanwhile


BTW, are you sure those Attack stats are correct? Normally, you get +10% HP and +10% Attack on Age advancements (like Atlantean Heroes and other "Special Units"), so surely it would be 6, 6.6, 7.2, 7.8 for each Age, respectively....(which would show on the UI as 6, 7, 7, 8).

Quote:

Ra Priest (99hp 4 pierce damage 23% hack armour 16 range x6.5 bonus vs MUs

Priests get a +800% Damage Bonus vs MUs...(x9), not x6.5.

[This message has been edited by Quircus (edited 04-09-2004 @ 01:51 PM).]

posted 09 April 2004 02:00 PM EDT (US)     7 / 64  
Another top quality guide Manticore

I was extremely surprised to learn that the Shade costs 1 pop space, I didn't know that and it will definitely affect the way I use Shades.

I'm really sorry to hear you're leaving, hopefully it won't be permanent. Don't leave me to face the hordes of angry guide-haters without a partener!

Just kidding, enjoy your time playing other games and best of luck to you


ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
Favourite Major Gods: Isis, Hades, Gaia, Loki, Ra, Thor

Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab, Petsuchos
And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades, Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War, Dryad, Automaton

posted 09 April 2004 03:25 PM EDT (US)     8 / 64  
hehe just destroy your temple in classical then go to mythic or whatever, and half an hour later rebuild your temple and WHAM... 100 shades (you just need to kill around 500 of your cheap units like uhmm nm...)

then you would be 100 pop spaces over your cap :P

do armory upgrades affect shades? i guess not...


AOE3 @ SM4RTASS

Dominating with: The French
HC: Le Moule
Explorer: Ze Chauvenist

posted 09 April 2004 03:51 PM EDT (US)     9 / 64  
banking shades ainīt usefull in tt due to the need of a titan.
in vanilla itīs cool to bank them

peace and love.

age of myth have turned inte age of isis. sad but true

posted 09 April 2004 04:29 PM EDT (US)     10 / 64  
Good stuff MK.

Thanks for taking the time to produce these guides, hopefully you'll come back and do some more of them soon.


Sith
Halo 2 Stats | AoMH | AoE3H | FMT
posted 10 April 2004 03:29 PM EDT (US)     11 / 64  
have the shade missing temple "bug" been fixed?
there war no mentioning of it at all in this guide.
i just read that someone posted about this in their post so i wont go into any details.

and 1 more thing to the "cost", i would say that it is fairly costly that around 5 of your units has to die to get 1, in general you should keep your units alive.
but i dont really know it you could count it as cost or what, but i have anyway sorry


but to bad you are leaving aom, you have made some nice points and post while you have been here.


Smile to the world, it will think you are up to something

ESO playstyle: casual
ESO Name: MeToAgain, and 2 other names which im not telling you about:P

posted 10 April 2004 03:38 PM EDT (US)     12 / 64  
I could have told you this guide would suck because there's nothing interesting about the Shade. Oh wait, I did.
posted 10 April 2004 04:05 PM EDT (US)     13 / 64  
Sorry to hear you are leaving AOM Manticore. We'll miss you and your guides. Looks like Artemis is now pretty much the only guide writer. I think we should elect someone to continue. I'll put a new topic in the game disscussion forum.
posted 10 April 2004 04:19 PM EDT (US)     14 / 64  
Added to the list.

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
posted 10 April 2004 04:23 PM EDT (US)     15 / 64  
My ()&(^^^&(***()+*& thread just got closed!
posted 10 April 2004 04:29 PM EDT (US)     16 / 64  
You can't exactly "elect" a person to do guides, they'll do it if they want to. And why should someone replace Manticore? Artemis does a pretty good job solo

VergiL
The Fora Augusta
"Hey bastards, knock knock" - Sarge
"Ha, piss on that, I'm bringing a ma-cha-te!" - Putman, Club Dread

[This message has been edited by Revan_ (edited 04-10-2004 @ 04:30 PM).]

posted 10 April 2004 04:34 PM EDT (US)     17 / 64  
Alright, just thought we could use more than 1 guide maker. Just forget I said anything.
posted 10 April 2004 05:58 PM EDT (US)     18 / 64  
the shade is good because of its pop cost. the game is all about pop cost and having a pop effective unit is very useful. On the other hand you gain a lot of them when your units die and you arent at pop limit because of the deaths. Still a free unit is always welcomed and it helps rebuild your army faster
posted 10 April 2004 10:04 PM EDT (US)     19 / 64  
Great guide ManticoreKiller!

Well, im a bit sad that you leaving, cos you gave us multiple usefull guides, anyway, thanks and good luck wherever ya going.


Play my Scenarios:
GraveBlood

NeoMutation 2
NeoMutation
Myr_Enforcerer----------------------------------------------1800 (Greek)
dw_wb------------------------------------------------------17xx (Smurf)
posted 10 April 2004 10:32 PM EDT (US)     20 / 64  
aww...ManticoreKiller has to go? for good!? O.o'

he had guides that equaled ChimeraArtemis's guides.

Anyway, very sweet guide as always man!! Hades Shade are better than I thought...

posted 10 April 2004 11:02 PM EDT (US)     21 / 64  
Awww, your going ALREADY? Well, I loved your guides. Much appreciated. The shades are much worse than i gave them credit for.
posted 11 April 2004 02:03 AM EDT (US)     22 / 64  
Funny how this came out just as the shade became the killer bug.
posted 11 April 2004 04:45 AM EDT (US)     23 / 64  

Quote:

hehe just destroy your temple in classical then go to mythic or whatever, and half an hour later rebuild your temple and WHAM... 100 shades (you just need to kill around 500 of your cheap units like uhmm nm...)
then you would be 100 pop spaces over your cap :P

If you want to be gay there's a much better way to "bank" shades, just check MFO! Have fun!

posted 11 April 2004 04:55 AM EDT (US)     24 / 64  
i was just about to post something about the new bug. When i came to this site, I busted out laughing, the coincidence of it all.

I posted what can be an effective counter to the strat on MFO if anyone is interested.


I am Become Death; Destroyer of Worlds.
posted 11 April 2004 05:20 AM EDT (US)     25 / 64  
Nvm.

ESO name : Relaxing

Eisai ellinas? Tote ela sto www.noobwars.gr.

[This message has been edited by NIB (edited 04-11-2004 @ 12:54 PM).]

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