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Topic Subject: Thor HFU vs Odin HFU 2.0 (Guide) (Major Changes!)
posted 11 April 2004 00:08 AM EDT (US)   
Thor Hill Fort units Jarl/Huskarl vs Odin Jarl/Huskarl Version 2.0 Alpha (Major Corrections/Changes)

This guide will compare Thor's Hill Fort human units vs Odin human Hill Fort units when they are Fully Upgraded in Mythic Age/Titan Age with all Civ Bounses, Mythic Techs, Line Upgrades, and Armory Upgrades. The purpose of this guide to see which one has the better Human Hill Fort units in the long run. The real test is too see if Odin’s hit point bonus is enough to out last Thor’s Armory Bonus. The untis will have to run the Gauntlet to see which one dies first.

The First Test will see which units wins in a Head to Head fight

Fu Odin Huskarl (with Bravery)
Hit Points: 189
Hack Armor: 38%
Pierce Armor: 63%
Hack Attack: 14

Fu Thor Huskarl (with Bravery)
Hit Points: 166
Hack Armor: 44%
Pierce Armor: 67%
Hack Attack: 15

The Thor Huskarl deals 9.30 (15((100-38)/100)) hack damage a second to the Odin Huskarl.
The Thor Huskarl kills the Odin Huskarl in 20.32 (189/9.3) seconds.

The Odin Huskarl deals 7.84 (14((100-44)/100)) hack damage a second to the Thor Huskarl.
The Odin Huskarl kills the Thor Huskarl in 21.17 (166/7.84) seconds.

The Thor Huskarl wins by .85 seconds or 6.7 hit points.

Fu Odin Jarl (with Ring Giver and Thundering Hooves)
Hit Points: 342
Hack Armor: 41%
Pierce Armor: 52%
Hack Attack: 14

Fu Thor Jarl (with Thundering Hooves)
Hit Points: 279
Hack Armor: 47%
Pierce Armor: 57%
Hack Attack: 15
The Thor Jarl deals 8.85 (15((100-41)/100)) hack damage a second to the Odin Jarl.
The Thor Jarl kills the Odin Jarl in 38.64 (342/8.85) seconds.

The Odin Jarl deals 7.42 (14((100-47)/100)) hack damage a second to the Thor Jarl.
The Odin Jarl kills the Thor Jarl in 37.60 (279/7.42) seconds.

The Odin Jarl wins by 1.04 seconds or 9.24 hit points.

So Odin Jarl and Thor Huskarl wins the head up fight!

The next test will determine which unit holds up better against pierce damage.

FU Hades Toxotes
Hit Points: 78
Hack Armor: 38%
Pierce Armor: 38%
Pierce Attack: 13(There not 100% accurate but that don't matter in this test)

Toxotes vs Huskarl

The Hades Toxotes deals4.81(13((100-63)/100)) pierce damage to the Odin Huskarl, and it takes 39.29(189/4.81) seconds to kill the Odin Huskarl.
It would take the Odin Huskarl 4.49 seconds to kill the Hades Toxotes.

The Hades Toxotes deals4.29(13((100-67)/100)) pierce damage to the Thor Huskarl, and it takes 38.69(166/4.29) seconds to kill the Thor Huskarl.
It would take the Thor Huskarl 4.19 seconds to kill the Hades Toxotes.

During a head to head with the Hades Toxotes the Odin Huskarl would lose 21.6(4.81x4.49) hitpoints and the Thor Huskarl would lose 17.98(4.29x4.19)hit points.

The Odin Huskarl would kill 8.75(189/21.6) Hades Toxotes before it died.
The Thor Huskarl would kill 9.23(166/17.98) Hades Toxotes before it died.
It’s a difference of .48 Hades Toxotes

Winner Thor Huskarl!

Toxotes vs Jarl[B]

The Hades Toxotes deals[B]6.24
(13((100-52)/100)) pierce damage to the Odin Jarl, and it takes 53.27(342/6.42) seconds to kill the Odin Jarl.
It would take the Odin Jarl 8.99 seconds to kill the Hades Toxotes.

The Hades Toxotes deals5.59(13((100-57)/100)) pierce damage to the Thor Jarl, and it takes 49.91(279/5.59) seconds to kill the Thor Jarl
It would take the Thor Jarl 8.39 seconds to kill the Hades Toxotes.

During a head to head with the Hades Toxotes the Odin Jarl would lose 55.47(6.24x8.89) hit points and the Thor Jarl would lose 46.90(5.59x8.39)hit points.

The Odin Jarl would kill 6.17 (342/57.07) Hades Toxotes before it died.
The Thor Jarl would kill 5.94(279/46.90) Hades Toxotes before it died.
It’s a difference of .23 Hades Toxotes.

The Odin Jarl Wins!

The next test will determine which unit holds up better against Hack Damage.

Un upgraded Ulfsark (The Huskarls have to win for test to work!)
Hit Points: 80
Hack Armor: 30%
Pierce Armor: 10%
Hack Attack: 9

Ulfsark vs Huskarl

The un upgraded Ulfsark deals5.58(9((100-38)/100)) hack damage to the Odin Huskarl, and it takes 33.87(189/5.58) seconds to kill the Odin Huskarl.
It would take the Odin Huskarl 8.16 seconds to kill the un upgraded Ulfsark.

The un upgraded Ulfsark deals5.04(9((100-44)/100)) hack damage to the Thor Huskarl, and it takes 32.94(166/5.04) seconds to kill the Thor Huskarl.
It would take the Thor Huskarl 7.62 seconds to kill the un upgraded Ulfsark.

The Odin Huskarl would kill 4.15 (189/45.53) un upgraded Ulfsark before it died.
The Thor Huskarl would kill 4.32(166/38.4) un upgraded before it died.
It’s a difference of .17 un upgraded Ulfsarks.

Winner Thor Huskarl

Ulfsark vs Jarl

The Thor Ulfsark deals 5.31 (9((100-41)/100) hack damage to the Odin Jarl, and it takes 64.40 (342/5.31) seconds to kill the Odin Jarl.
It would take the Odin Jarl 8.16 seconds to kill the Thor Ulfsark.

The Thor Ulfsark deals 4.77 (9((100-47)/100)) hack damage to the Thor Jarl, and it takes 58.49 (279/4.77) seconds to kill the Thor Jarl.
It would take the Thor Jarl 7.62 seconds to kill the Thor Ulfsark.

The Odin Jarl would kill 7.89(342/43.32) un upgraded Ulfsark before it died.
The Thor Jarl would kill 7.68(279/36.34) un upgraded before it died.
It’s a difference of .21 un upgraded Ulfsarks.

Winner Odin Jarl!

So the final Score is:

Odin Huskarl 0

Thor Huskarl 3
(better vs Pierce Damage)
(better vs Hack Damage)
( it wins head to head)

Odin Jarl 3
(better vs Pierce Damage)
(better vs Hack Damage)
( it wins head to head)

Thor Jarl 0

Thor has better Huskarls, but Odin has better Jarls right even though Thor gets 3 more armory upgrades! It appears that the Ring Giver Tech is too much for Thor’s Armory bonus to handle, but Thor’s Armory bonus beats Odin hit point bonus for Huskarls.

All 9 of Odin's armory upgrades cost a combined 2,050 food, 2,700 gold, and 950 wood. All resources combined total is 5700. Plus 400 gold for the Ring Giver Tech

All 12 of Thor's armory upgrades cost a combined 2,550 food, 3,450 gold, and 1,200 wood. All resources combined total is 7200.

Thor’s armory up grades cost 500 food, 750 gold, and 250 wood more.

Most of the Test results where less that ½ unit, so neither has the superior unit hands down, but because of the extra resources Thor has to spend I declare Odin The Winner Overall.

*I Should also note that Odin Troops regenerate, at a rate of .80 hp a second while standing still I don’t know what it is while they are fighting, but it’s a lot lower and that why it would have a minimal effect on the test, and that why I didn’t include it.

Replies:
posted 11 April 2004 04:53 AM EDT (US)     1 / 6  
Added to the list.

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
posted 12 April 2004 09:08 AM EDT (US)     2 / 6  
Alright!
posted 12 April 2004 11:50 AM EDT (US)     3 / 6  
Odin's Regen is still significant during fighting.

If you ever play Odin against another Norse civ, you'll notice your starting ulfy will always kill his 1 on 1, even if he gets in the first hits. This is due to his Regen.

I didnt value this until I started playing Thor :-O
One of the many reasons I came back to Odin.

Great, Great unit comparison PlatinumKnight...

posted 12 April 2004 03:24 PM EDT (US)     4 / 6  
Interesting bit on the huskies. Where does this leave Odin millitarilly speaking as compared with Thor? If you factor in the added armory bonuses that Thor gets, then send 3 Thor RC vs 2 Odin Jarl, or 3 Thor Ulf's vs 2 Odin Huskies and micro so that the attackes are concentrated on a single target, I get the feeling that Odin is going to come out well behind Thor, especially if you consider the added strength for the Ulf's that Thor's god-path allows, and where he also has access to Freya. AND, upon reaching Heroic, Thor only needs to research one set of armory techs to get fully upgraded (immediately applicable to his existing army), while Odin needs to build his forts (taking some mil out of the game to do it) and get THEN new units built. So, to see the majority of his benefits, he needs to wait for a fair bit of his existing army to die (assuming that you are popped on reaching Heroic), or, you need to be building TC's AND HF's at the same time so you can immediately start pumping units. This is very unlikely for two reasons - you double the number of mil you take away from the battle, as well as the amount of resource you are drawing on to support construction (so, you won't be able to afford those units once your done with construction any way...).

The re-gen is going to be far more adventageous during early game when all units are critical, especially in keeping your raiders alive. So, I can see an argument giving Odin the upper-hand for early classical 'Norse-Play style', with most of his bonuses not coming through until a fair bit into heroic (after HF's go up and heroic troops start rolling out).

Would it be better to look at units that have full Heroic upgrades rather than full Mythic upgrades to get a better feel for how Odin fares in matches that are more on par with the Norse game? Event his doesn't account for the time/resource it takes for Thor to get armory upgrades vs. Odin to get his armory upgrades, then build HF's, then get the HF units constructed. It seems like Thor could almost completely ignor HF's all together, except the possible need for Rams.

Am I way off the mark here?

posted 12 April 2004 05:48 PM EDT (US)     5 / 6  
No thats my feeling as well, When playing Thor I usually have a larger Classical force before going Heroic, so when I do age, I'm usually popped out, and often build a second TC before I build a HillFort, then fill out my extra pop before building a Hillfort as well... Eventually if the game gets as far, I'll bring up a Hillfort and switch to the Husky & TA combo, Awesome combo & No more food required.

I dont think we need to get THAT far into Thor vs Odin unit strengths, though. Strength of unit is the least of their differences.

[This message has been edited by Talon_373 (edited 04-12-2004 @ 05:51 PM).]

posted 12 April 2004 07:16 PM EDT (US)     6 / 6  
Well this guide was for the civ at maximun strength. I think odin has a big probleom with mass infantry and eles, because of no Bragi. I run into the probleom in the early game becasue I go all aout calvary and I only have 4 builders 2ULF 2HENSIR and I cant build my tc but so quickly. When I play Odin I DO A 6:55 Fh then I build a fort. I get done at about 8min with 4 builders(10 pop) I never get my first Jarl out until after 8 min but theY train farily quickly. HFU are rather expensive, and Thor units beat all except Odins 1v1 except Jarls which get raped by Swine Array Ulfs. I play Thor both alot I rarely make hilfort unless it for a defence or to make rams. Its hard to get a mass of forts built. That is what odin would need to spam huskies and Jarls. Thor can survive without HF the question in can Odin.
Age of Mythology Heaven » Forums » Strategy Discussion » Thor HFU vs Odin HFU 2.0 (Guide) (Major Changes!)
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