Nice. I actually used this myself, but a different version.

I would just spam villies and maybe a few Mercs/Animals, get Classic, and attack the enemy's TC. Worked great vs. Attie.

Yea.. too bad animals suck so badly, I think its better to use them for food.. my build is still a bit rough on this strat, but I could hit the comp at 9 mins on Alfheim with 5-6 mercs, vills and the whole load. Its kinda nice for microing - the mercs killed all their human units before running out, and vills+anc take out the tc in 10 secs. When perfected its prolly possible to go under 8.30 every time, on any map. Low-hunts are better for Set since his free animals can give you the extra food for the FH, while the opponent maybe even starts to farm.

Meh, I usually just use the animals to tease the Attie Citizen...usually when your TC is being attacked, you don't notice some Apes raping one of your Citizens

I have pulled this off against Norse a few times as well; but that's it. Haven't tested it against Greeks or Egyptians yet, although Sentinel would probably be somewhat of a problem...if you don't take care of them quick enough. Not to mention Eggy free towers, but with no Boiling Oil...

MAYBE this could be pulled off going Anubis and getting some Anubites...doubt it though; too much food. (If you plan to rush in Classic)

[This message has been edited by SockGuardian (edited 07-05-2004 @ 06:25 PM).]

Rushing eggies or Hades in early classical is often pointless.. they have too much free defenses.. but if you can replace the taken tc, villagers can take out any remaining towers once the area is cleared.. when shifting in its all about taking the tc, then replacing it.. I wouldnt touch sentinels till I have a tc up.

And apes dont exactly rape citizens.. more like sexually harass them.. what do they have, 2 attack?

Either way, you still see where the Citizen is (so no running, or in Citizens' case, walking), and you're preventing it from working...unless it kills the apes and gets food from them

Yea.. and that never happens.. I still think they taste too good to be running around. And if you forget them.. theyre like 7 pop each now after the nerf lol..

[This message has been edited by Johnny_Deppig (edited 07-05-2004 @ 06:47 PM).]

And if this strat becomes sucesful they will become 10 pop each lol. Sounds good, gj!

This may or may not matter, but I would go Vision, Ancestors, then Shifting Sands.

1 get that one more merc out

2 the los provided by your Ancestors will give you the opportunity to Shift Sands with more time to pick the choice spot

3 The Minions will be up, making your vills less of a target.

4 Make sure you dont try this vs Poseidon or Zeus if they havent used Cease Fire. Vs other eggy could be risky too due to free towers. And Isis may have a monument that ruins your shot at launching either ancestors or ss once you cast vision. Scouting seems important to do this.

5 I dont know why you wouldnt use as many animals as you could possibly make, or at least spam them when you ss there, unless you dont have a monument in this fh.

6 Risky if not executed by 7:30, most will have another tc by then or a bunch of units.

Its a good solid strat though. But if it fails you better hustle.

[This message has been edited by Pug (edited 07-05-2004 @ 08:34 PM).]

Didn't Feral get nerfed as well? I think I remember someone saying that the tech for animals doesn't give as much "bang for your buck" anymore...

[edit] So it seems this whole strat is a little risky vs. all Greeks, saying as:

Poseidon/Zeus = Ceasefire

Hades = Sentinel and maybe Restoration?

Lol Johnny, don't forget the Hyena and Gazelles. Well, forget the Gazelles maybe (), but not the Hyena. Sure, all animals pretty much suck now, but they still are a solid (for an animal) Classic unit, and can be summoned by your Pharaoh right there on the battlefield for 6 (?) favor. And if you have a monument + Anubis' tech, it should be easy to make a few just in case.

Lol, I dunno, I just feel bad for the poor Set animals

[edit] Duhhhhh...Anubis doesn't get shifting sands

[This message has been edited by SockGuardian (edited 07-06-2004 @ 01:34 PM).]

I tried it 2 months ago it............ decent but its not going to change a game much if they defend their base, try it on forward builders, then it works

Nice if you like 10 minut games without strategy or battles

Either way - you loose or win in 10 minuts.

No heroic battles, no Mythic battles, in fact - no army battles at all.

Not how the game was designed, but a way to win if that is all that counts for you.

Kind of reminds me of the way the Greeks won the Euro 2004 in football

First Came the Set Vill+Animal Rush

Then The Ra Vill Rush

Now the Set Rush v2

sounds good. Wont work vs isis or another FHing eggy, or greek with ceasefire (hades is ok if you can kil the tc fast imo sentials are inacurate) it will butcher Attie and Most norse tough. Nice find

Now if only i was good at supremacy.........

EDIT

wait a sec.

How Is it a "Set Merc Vortex" when

A > Eggy Dont Get Vortex.

B > Vortex Is a Mythic GP.

C > You didnt Cast Vortex.

Sould it be "Set Merc Sand Shift"

[This message has been edited by nifty_PS2MAN (edited 07-06-2004 @ 05:17 AM).]

i can imagine this strat being used vs some greek

1000 worth of mercs dying while cease fire is casting, and your villies arent collecting anything + he builds up his army, all you can do is run away 11

Nice idea Can you supply a rec?

Quote:

Set Merc Vortex sounds cooler.

Besides Shifting sands is a vortex of sand.

As for ancestors going in before, sure you can do that.. I cast them all in at the same time. Vision is so huge though that you will hardly need more LOS.

And animals suck suck suck. Besides if you want to summon them youll need a monument which will slow your build by maybe 20-30 secs.

I can do this before at maybe 7.30 easily now.. Im not sure if faster is always better on this strat.

I uploaded a rec vs a hard Hades comp here on HG.. the mercs werent of too much use since he only had one archer.. but they helped with the tc instead. Shows the basic idea. Faster variant this time with fewer mercs. Slower variant adds a minute to the clock and pretty much doubles the mercs.

Actually, this isn't as effective as when you transport siege instead of mercs. Matei developed this kick-ass strat that involved the Set player getting to Heroic as quickly as possible, training 2 siege, then shifting them + pharaoh and the villagers.

Much more effective, since the Siege actually helps kill the TC and/or adjoining towers. The ancestors can do the same, protecting the pharaoh and the villagers. If done effectively, the Set player can start building on the TC as soon as it's down.

Quote:

This is faster. Much faster since you dont need wood, and you dont have to build a siege works/towers. But you can do it both ways. The difference here is that the tc will go down very fast either way, and mercs can kill his units, esp heroes if hes Loki or so. Ancestors will die fast vs hersirs etc.

I can do it at 7.30 with 6-7 mercs, which is very hard to counter unless you are Isis or have Hermes.

True, I suppose, my way is safer, that's all. Both are vulnerable, though.

Oh, you mentioned a "Hard" Hades computer. Make sure you never try that against a Hades in multiplayer. Hades players have Sentinel, which is very hard if you want to protect your Pharaoh. Trying it against any other Egypt would be suicide, their towers will protect them as well. The only person I'd try it against is Zeus/Pose who didn't go Hermes. Of course, Atlantean would easily die to this and Norse can be beaten as well.

Maybe the best way to counter this strategy as Attie is to start a 2nd TC ASAP in archaic. It should help you to keep the citizen production as you go classic and should be a safe as egypt usually don't have classic army before the 5mins. This is unless your enemy is Set and have one or two animals guarding your closer TCs.

[This message has been edited by G3_ (edited 07-06-2004 @ 09:22 AM).]

Quote:

Im 1760, Im not retarded.. It can work even against eggies and Hades in MP though.. The AI had sentinels, but they go down very fast and cant do much damage.. just check the rec.. the comp plays at about a 1610 level or so I think.. this strat isnt for 1750+ though unless you are up vs atties.. Still it does have a lot of shock value if you havent seen it before. Vs eggies it would prolly be a better idea to FH with Sekhmet and pump CAs+camelry though. Maybe FT.

Quote:

You can certainly take the tcs anyway.. just kill the animals, if you start building soon enough the tc will be up early enough.. but I doubt it will be very effective.. You wont be able to put up a fight at your first TC and will fall behind.

[This message has been edited by Johnny_Deppig (edited 07-06-2004 @ 09:39 AM).]

Quote:

Killing the animals will depend on the number of citizens and animals. I usually steal the enemy forward TC but vs smart Set players is almost impossible because the number of animals they have before the TC is finished. As you said, if I bring more citizens then I would fall behind on my economy. So, is better to take one TC that is far away from the enemy base.

[This message has been edited by G3_ (edited 07-06-2004 @ 12:24 PM).]

Well you said you wanted a 2nd tc.. so its prolly better to just take the closest one.. still animals cant be that much trouble, you kill them in 1 shot.

Quote:

Attie are pretty much screwed against this strat unless the Set player makes way too many mistakes. Plus, you need to know if the Set is gonna vil rush you or not, and if you think he isn't and he does, you = screwed. And if he doesn't and FH's, you = screwed.

Attie TC's are weak, and their Citizens are easy bait for Eggy Vills/Mercs. If your opponent goes Heroic, they'll also get the Scorpion Man/Wadjet. If they throw in Ancestors...GG for the Attie player.

Animals do suck, so if he has 2 animals guarding a TC, kill them. (unless they are Elephants, Rhinos, etc of course) If he has Feral, that might pose a problem though. A very small problem, but a problem nonetheless.

Also...if it's a water map, should you fish? You have later advance times on water maps, so your opponent should be in Archaic a bit longer.

[This message has been edited by SockGuardian (edited 07-06-2004 @ 01:33 PM).]

Fishing is a yes every time.. classical is slower, but heroic is fast, and the opponent could have started massing ships.. then you smack his base, gg.