Wow, never got a chance to look at that myth unit. That is pretty good stuff.

people dont seem to be replying so..... whats the saying?????????????????

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

What's the point of these 'guides'? This one really isn't a guide at all. It's more like a 'Test of the Nereid'.

Now on topic.

Why didn't you do tests against docks? Once the sea battle is over you gotta kill the dock.

Why didn't you have pop value into effect?

[This message has been edited by Fenris77 (edited 08-11-2004 @ 05:56 PM).]

Well, I'm sorry I bothered your time captain jack sparrow, I'll delete it for you so people can read your uber guides instead of my crappy guides.
Benjamin

[This message has been edited by FunClan_zero (edited 08-12-2004 @ 06:17 AM).]

Actually, the guide was at least interesting in that you found that the Nereid is an effective unit. You should go ahead and put it back up, Zero

Well, because fenris777 wanted a test of a nereid vs a dock
here's one:
nereid vs norse dock

First I'll take the hack armor into account
25 - (25*0.3)= 17.5 hack per second
1200/17.5= 68.5 secs to destroy the dock with nereid
if we compare it with a fire ship
20 - (20*0.3)= 14 hack per second
1200/14= 86 secs to destroy the dock
But these tests aren't pop effective so:
2 nereids= 6 pop= 35 hack per second vs dock
3 fire ships= 6 pop= 42 hack per second vs dock

So dmg wise fire ships are better at equal pop.
I didn't include dock fire yet, because I don't the exact damage.

Now let's compare it to a siege birime
25 - (25*0.3)= 17.5 hack per second
1200/17.5= 68.5 secs to destroy the dock with nereid
if we compare it with a siege bireme
6 crush*4 arrows(iirc)= 24 crush.
24- (24*0.05)= 22.8 crush per second
1200/22.8= 53 secs
dmg wise siege biremes are better than nereids.

Now if compare it with another sea myth vs building like the scylla(herioc mu too)
25 - (25*0.3)= 17.5 hack per second
1200/17.5= 68.5 secs to destroy the dock with nereid
20 -(20*0.3)= 14 hack + 10-(10*0.05)= 23.5 total attack per second
1200/23.5= 51 secs to destroy dock with scylla.
now pop effective
3 scylla=15 pop= 70.5 total attack per second
5 nereids= 15 pop= 87.5 hack attack per second
So dmg wise nereids are better vs docks than scylla's

Conclusion: fire ships/siege birimes are better to destroy docks than the nereid, but the nereid does better than a strong herioc mu(scylla)
note: if I know the exact stats of dock fire , I'll test this factor too.

[This message has been edited by FunClan_zero (edited 08-12-2004 @ 06:50 AM).]

There we go

Now I'll give the guide a sticker and you a cookie.

omg, I deserved a cookie.
*leaves forum to write another guide*

Now serious: if someone needs the real conditions too, pls, tell the total dmg of docks(I'm not sure how many arrows a dock fires).
Benjamin

Interesting about the Carcinos though,

I also tested Carcinos vs All Water myth units and found it to win vs all (except Nereid which was a draw),,

What is even more impressive is that Carcinos did not have the Monstrous Rage tech added,

So I guess that brings that to my question and I am not sure how to test this,

With Monstrous Rage can the Carcinos beat Nereid?

I usually use it for myth units and that's it. Pretty good. Took about 2 or 3 one go to take down a war turtle (full hp).

good job zero!

This test shows that kronos/oranos are very good on sea. Just do a fh/semi fast herioc on a water map(atleast medit) with kronos/oranos so you can make 3/4 nereids(incl free one)+ many siege birimes+fire ships. In that way you have a good counter vs scylla spam of zeus/poseidon(nereids own them) and other fh/semi fast heriocs on sea(except isis fh :s). And if you spam enough docks you can own them people who fight in classical for the sea too.
Benjamin

i have to say this was pretty informative. ill have to remeber this next time i use kronos or oranos. thanks for helpng me beat my brother.

Ok, I'll be serious. I dont want this thread to be closed becuz i think u did spend some time and effort on this. Its just my view that all tests are useless. Altho, it may look helpful, we really cant learn anything to help our gameplay from tests. Now, my reason why is, for example:

Quote:

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Altho it does appear to be a sound conclusion, there are way too many gameplay factors for this to hold constant. For example, atties gather favor too slowly, and if they FH, then they can only make like 2 more nereids. Now if we compare that to the greek favor gathering, they gather quiker and can make way more scyllas. However, how does the villies on the temple affect the resource income, and how about when other ships are thrown into the fray? If u use scylla/trireme, could the arrow ships focus fire and kill the nereids before the nereids kill the scylla, and how does choosing hyperion over rheia/theia affect gameplay later on. Theres plenty more things that affect these tests and sorta renders hem useless. Age of Mythology is just a game way too complex for tests to be usefull IMO.

I prefer the guides that don't have tests or use the tests to back up what they are explaining. Not just give us a load of tests and tack a comment on at the end.
There were about 4 lines that I found vaguely interesting, the rest was just pointless tests.

K, assume I do a fh of 8.00 with kronos.
A nereid costs 135 gold 14 fav((kronos' mythies are 10% cheaper).
one atties tc produces 0,09 fav/sec. So 8 mins= 480 secs.
480*0.09= 43.2 fav.
So at 8 mins I get one free nereid+ I can make three additional(if i'm kronos) so I'll have 4 nereids.
Then, Why don't you believe nereids are exellent mu killers? Do you think I'm using only nereids vs his scylla/trireme combo?
Look, In this test I'll show how fast one nereid can kill a scylla.
scylla
hp: 800
attack: 20 hack attack/10 crush attack
ha armor: 40%
pierce armor: 69%
crush: 80%
*2 vs mu

Nereid
hp: 400
attack: 25 hack
ha armor: 30%
pierce armor: 50%
crush: 80%
special: 150 hack damage(takes 2-3 secs to do)
*7 vs mu

a nereid does first his special. that's 150*-(150*7*0.40)= 630 hack damage.
Then he does 175-(175*0.4)=105 damage per second to the scylla. So after one special+ two normal hits or 4-5 secs the scylla dies.
The scylla does 48 damage per 1.5 sec. 400/48= 9 hits
or 13.5 secs.
So you can see that a nereid can kill a scylla triple so quick as the scylla is able to kill the nereid and the test isn't even pop effective. No other sea myth unit can kill a scylla faster than the nereid, because they don't get a uber special+ an extremely big bonus vs mu and the the base attack isn't bad either so that's why I conclude that nereids are good vs mu.

Quote:

Any decent player will support his nereids with ships so my ships can take his and the nereids his mu.

Quote:

I'm sry to say, but most mu guides I read here are based on analyse of the stats of the mu and tests vs other units/mu.

Quote:

the conclusions are based on the tests and the analyse of the stats of the nereid.
Benjamin

[This message has been edited by FunClan_zero (edited 08-18-2004 @ 12:37 PM).]

A kronos nereid is 180 gold, not 135. But anyway, while u can get 3 nereids quickly, can u replenish them faster than scylla? U mite need another town center. The resources for a TC may be used on more shiops, so what would happen? Can zeus get to heroic faster than kronos, and if so, can some scylla kill some fishing ships, that will subtract food, that meens putting more villies on food, less on gold? What if he bolts a nereid, what if he takes out a dock with hydra/mino/her0? How will restoration affect the battle? Will kronos have enugh gold for 3 more instant nereids?

I do agree that nereids are good myth killers, but the thing is that they are not that good vs boats, so if u run the scylla from the nereids, can the arrow ships kill the nereids before the attie boats can kill the triremes? Losing 1 nereid is much more impactfull than losing 1 scylla.

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I understand, but on the other hand, i can take ur ships with my MU, and ur MU wit my ships.

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So be it, but i remain firm in my opinion that tests are useless in a game as complicated as AOM

[This message has been edited by core4scoreormore (edited 08-18-2004 @ 01:27 PM).]

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I'm sry, but I didn't have time when I typed my reply so sry.

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What has this to do with the the strenght of the nereid. this is only good when you compare or zeus fh is better than kronos fh on water(I wrote a guide about that too, but I won't post it anyway to avoid flaming).

Quote:

But with a zeus fh you make mostly siege ships iirc? If I follow your way of reasoning everything is useless .
Benjamin

Quote:

This might not be directly talking about the strength of the nereid, but we want these tests to be useful, right? And in order to make these tests useful, we need real gameplay situations, right? And since we are talking about scyllas and nereids, it makes sense to talk about a zeus FH and a kronos/oranos FH, in the case, many new factors arrive and alter the battles. We want to know how nereids affect a naval battle, and so u need to consider many,many,many things.

Quote:

With a zeus FH, u can make anything u want, and if u see ur opponent is kronos/oranos and FHing, ramming ships or triremes mite be better for killing the nereids. But agin, u can do anything u want, which makes things more complicated. How does my reasoning make everything useless?

FCZ- Is this guide a joke? Because im laughing really hard. I didnt get anything out of this guide, i think i know less after reading it than i did last June before the titans came out.
You flame me for posting my strats, and you say stuff like your guide is the greatest, your guide the stuff that should really be posted in Strategy, and now that i read it, i find that extremely hard to believe.
If a mod warns me or bans me for making this post i will be extremely irritated, seeing as how i can pull about 10 examples of funclan flaming me much worse, for no reason whatsoever. I never did anything to him, he jsut started flaming me, so you can consider it baiting.

[This message has been edited by SilverOsirisAOM (edited 08-20-2004 @ 02:58 PM).]

Quote:

Well, atleast better than a couple last posts you're created.
-how in gods name is eggie supposed to stop massed chiero's
-who wins- the worst strategy in aom, or the worst player
-1400 dynamite strategies #2- "attie-cake"
-my epic quest- a rating that can hardly be reached
-some n00b is reporting me to ES for cheating 011 laughing.mp3
-stupid monkey relic
-fanatics/heka's overpowered?

Really impressive posts, silver, now you have a clear prove my guide is crap.
But wait, aren't you the creator of the moronic thread "pillage the village" and aren't you the one who had several flame wars with acamas.
Benjamin

[This message has been edited by FunClan_zero (edited 08-20-2004 @ 04:38 PM).]

I could reply saying so many things. But ive been in too many flame wars. How about you stop flaming me, and i will stop flaming you. You dont want to get banned and neither do i. If you dont like my strats or my threads, or myself in general keep your hatred to yourself, and i will not post in this guide any more.
Its time for both of us to stop acting like children.
Peroid.

[This message has been edited by SilverOsirisAOM (edited 08-20-2004 @ 03:53 PM).]

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At least half of them are non-humour posts.

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So you are basically descending to Acamas' level?

yeah, well said RookieRookie .
I know i said id stop but that was clever to point that out.

Hmm starting a flame war in his own thread is tempting.. it's an easy way to get it closed. Revenge
(Won't do it, though I try to be more grown-up)