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Topic Subject: Hydra attack - editor tests
posted 12 March 2005 07:47 AM EDT (US)   
People seem to have many different opinions regarding the increasing attack of the hydra. Common opinions voiced include:

Hydras get +20 hack for each new head
Hydras get +20% attack for each new head
Each new head gives a diminishing attack bonus; i.e. the 2nd head gives 20 hack, the third 10 and so on.

Being a little bored this morning, I decided to "bottom this out" in the editor - and I was quite surprised by the results!

My main tests involved using a hydra to slaughter varying amounts of deer, before attacking a war elephant (chosen due to the fact that it has lots of hitpoints and 99% crush armour, so the hydra's crush damage can be effectively negated).

I also repeated the tests against hippikons to ensure that the target unit does not impact the attack dished out by the hydra (it doesn't).

I further repeated the tests by slaughtering varying numbers of axemen rather than deers to ensure that the unit being killed doesn't affect the hydra's increasing attack.

Sure enough, the hydra gains a new head every three kills - and each kill impacts the hydra's attack in the same way... with the strange exception that if you kill deer etc. to increase a hydra's attack, the first deer you kill doesn't change anything! So you need to kill 4 deer for a second head, and 7 deer for a third head... but only 3 axemen for a 2nd head and 6 axemen to gain the third.

I'm not sure why the first deer doesn't register on the attack bonus scale, but the first axeman did - however I'll display the results for the axemen as this is a minor issue that shouldn't confuse things too much.

I also timed the numbers of attacks that the hydra delivers per second, and according to both the in-game clock and my stop-watch, it attacks approximately every 1.3 seconds - so this had to be factored in.

My results were as follows:

Killing deer for extra heads, and then testing vs. a war elephant with 25% hack armour:

Kills--Heads--HP removed/atk--Damage/atk--Dmg per sec

0------1------24--------------32-----------25
1------1------28--------------37.3---------29
2------1------31.5------------42-----------32
3------2------35.5------------47.3---------36
4------2------39--------------52-----------40
5------2------43--------------57.3---------44
6------3------46.5------------62-----------48
7------3------50.3------------67.1---------52
8------3------54--------------72-----------55
9------4------57.8------------77.1---------59
10-----4------61.5------------82-----------63
11-----4------65.5------------87.3---------67
12-----5------69--------------92-----------71
13-----5------69--------------92-----------71


So there are some surprising conclusions to be drawn!

1) A hydra appears to have a base hack attack for 25 hack per second, rather than the stated 20.

2) A hydra will grow a new head every three kills (nothing surprising here) although if it is killing deer etc. the first kill doesn't count for anything. This aside, all units killed by the hydra seem to impact its attack in the same way.

3) The increased attack that a hydra receives upon killing is incremental per unit killed, rather than per head received.

4) A hydra's hack damage increases by approximately 4 hack per second for each unit that it kills, up to a maximum of 12 units which is c. 71 hack damage.

Replies:
posted 12 March 2005 08:37 AM EDT (US)     1 / 16  
thats pretty interesting, I knew they could dish some decent damage out but I never realised it was that much
posted 12 March 2005 09:49 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16  
I ran a similar test to similar results but also used a priest to heal after each kill. Attacking A war elephant each time the hp remaining of the hydra after the encounter was as follows. I am not including any other data as it matches jet set jim's

651
666
682
698
705
713
722
729
729
737
737
745
752

And kept being 752.

[This message has been edited by iamdork (edited 03-12-2005 @ 01:57 PM).]

posted 12 March 2005 01:48 PM EDT (US)     3 / 16  
excellent and interesting, I hope Theris will have look ;-)
posted 12 March 2005 02:50 PM EDT (US)     4 / 16  
That's very interesting, I always thought it was 20 damage per head.

ada
posted 12 March 2005 06:25 PM EDT (US)     5 / 16  
wait does each head do 71 attack damage or is that the total damage?
posted 12 March 2005 07:09 PM EDT (US)     6 / 16  
total damage.
posted 12 March 2005 09:57 PM EDT (US)     7 / 16  
Alright... Try a crush damage test? I'd suggest a boulder wall, then double the damage ammount *it's crush armour = 50% so logically you would * it by 2.* It's a good idea. But my Hydras die before they get 5 heads So I get pissed when my three headed hydra bites dust...

悪即斬
posted 12 March 2005 10:08 PM EDT (US)     8 / 16  
Nice test. I def thought it only gained an attack per head, not in between, good to know.

Do not think that you think,
Because if you think that you think,
You just think that you think.
posted 13 March 2005 00:04 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16  
Will the hydra head gain work on Sets summoned animals too?
posted 13 March 2005 08:13 AM EDT (US)     10 / 16  
yes it gains heads againts sets animals... but as jet_set_jim said... if it is a gazzele or something like that the first one doesnt count... plus sets animals count as myth... and since the hydra gets a bonus vs myth they do about 33 attack before the first kill to a set hippo
posted 13 March 2005 02:31 PM EDT (US)     11 / 16  
Great conclusions. Maybe Hydras don't get better with the first deer because then it would take less time to get more heads and thus more attack.

A good use for Hydras IMO is killing villies, if you can get 1 or 2 before they escape (easier with more heads), they get monstrous attack in no time.

posted 13 March 2005 07:22 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16  
Does Apollo's temple heal ally's units as well?

Meteor Shower = mini-ICBM Shower <-- Given
mini-ICBM x 20 = Nuclear Pwnage <-- Given
Pwnage = w00tage <-- Given
Meteor Shower = Nuclear w00tage <-- Transitional Property
posted 13 March 2005 07:27 PM EDT (US)     13 / 16  
It heals allied units as well. But where did that come from? About your sig--isn't it transitive, not transitional?


" I didn't particularly feel like being arrested, so I argued with the soldiers a bit. Several of them died during the argument - those things happen once in a while. Unfortunately, one of the casualties was Taur Urgas' oldest son. The king of the Murgos took it personally. He's very narrow-minded sometimes. "

" Usually, when I need a boat, I steal one. Using one of my own seems immoral somehow. "

posted 14 March 2005 11:55 PM EDT (US)     14 / 16  
lol meteor really is like an Intercontinental Ballistic Missile strike
posted 15 March 2005 01:57 AM EDT (US)     15 / 16  
And, if Zeus, the Hydra can even benefit of monstrous rage... Wow, nice MU! But i still stick to apollo's healing...

"Let me hear the batlle cry, Calling on the wind
Let me see the banners fly, Before the storm begins
Let me feel the spirits soar, Destroy the enemy
Striking at the evil core, For all the world to see"
Judas Priest - One Shot at Glory
posted 16 March 2005 07:07 AM EDT (US)     16 / 16  
added. (long time since I said that)

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
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