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Topic Subject: Hades Guide
posted 11 March 2008 08:54 PM EDT (US)   
This is my guide on Hades. The way that I’m going to do this is by starting in the Archaic Age and working up through the Mythic Age. I will then go over some strategies that can be employed depending on which civilization you are facing and which map you are playing on (separately). I hope this will help anyone who wishes to play Hades. Let us begin!


The Bonuses of Hades

Hades, like all other major gods grants you some inert bonuses. Hades increases the hit points of all of your buildings, he increases the attack of your archers and buildings, and lastly Hades grants the possibility of your human units returning as a Shade upon their death.
The increase in building hit points is one of the better bonuses of any major god in my opinion. It isn’t like Hades just boosts them a little bit either. It is by 25%. That is a large chunk of hit points. The normal Greek town center starts with 2800 hit points while a Hades town center starts with 3500. That is 700 additional hit points!

If the increase in building hit points wasn’t enough, Hades also grants your buildings a higher attack. I find that this tends to be something that many players either forget or fail to adjust to while in game. The average player will continue raiding as they normally would only to find that they are taking slightly more loses than usual to their raiding party because of the added building attack strength. The increase in attack of 20% is a nice boost and along with greater hit points, Hades becomes a great god for repelling early attacks or raids by the opponent.

Hades also grants the attack strength increase to your archers. Toxotes and Peltasts each get an increased attack of about .5. The actual increase is 10%. Although small, it is still something and it certainly helps because the Toxote is already a mainstay of any Greek army.

The Shade, undead military so to speak, is a very nice bonus. Your Shades will be created at your temple. If you have more than one temple then the temple which is closest to the enemy is the one that they will be created at. The Shade is basically a template unit. By that I mean it is the most basic unit you can have. It deals no bonus damage to any other unit and no other unit deals bonus damage to it and it has very average stats. This makes the Shade a bit of a soft counter for all other units while also being a decent unit to fight with. They make good meat shields.

The Archaic Age

Sentinel: Hades’ God Power
Sentinel is the god power that Hades grants you. As you probably know it is used on one of your town centers and it provides you with four living statues that are much like a Toxote only they are stationary with greater attack, armor and hit points. However, each Sentinel benefits from the archer line upgrade and weapons upgrades just as Toxotes and Peltasts do as well as receiving the 10% increase in attack from Hades’ inert bonus. Unfortunately they do not benefit from hack or pierce armor upgrades. The base stats of the Sentinel are 250 hit points, 11 pierce attack, 30% hack damage protection, 95% pierce damage protection, 10% crush damage protection, and 22 range.

When using Sentinels it will always be in defense of a town center but that doesn’t mean this is strictly a defensive god power. Taking a forward town center and then using Sentinel can put a lot of pressure on your opponent. Use this power wisely, protect your four living statues with buildings or wall sections. Don’t use it straight away at game’s start either. If you do your opponent can home in on where you used the god power and find out exactly where your town center is rather than having to make an educated guess based on where their town center is.

Vaults of Erebus: Hades’ Technology
The Vaults of Erebus grant you a small trickle of gold. The cost for this trickle is 150 food and 5 favor. I will give you both sides of this tech as you can see it as either treasure or trash. First the negative thought side. The trickle provides you 45 gold per minute and it takes 40 seconds to research. Now, consider how long your average game lasts. Being Hades, you will take most games to at least 20 minutes, probably having an average game time of about 30 minutes. 45 x 30 = 1350. That’s if you had the trickle for all 30 minutes. Subtract 155 from that number to account for the resources you used to pay for the trickle and you only get 1195 for 30 minutes of trickle. It takes 3.5 minutes to regain the resources lost do to the purchase. That’s the negative thought side. Here’s the positive thought side. 45 gold per minute means no gold spent on 30+ Toxotes over the course of the game or one Toxote per minute that only costs wood. Considering that you will be making at least 30 Toxotes each game, this makes for a very nice little trickle. My personal feeling is that this tech should always be researched. No matter how you look at it the resources you spend to get it are replenished in 4 minutes. However, I do think you must be attentive to when you research Vaults of Erebus. When facing a rush, you need to be using your food for military in the now so you cannot afford to wait 4 minutes while you replenish the resources you spend on Vaults of Erebus. That said, when you have time to breath go ahead and get Vaults of Erebus at an earlier time so you can benefit more from the trickle.

Scouting: The Kataskopos
With your scout, you have the best scout of all civilizations. You do not have to take time to build like the Ulfsark, you can attack unlike the Oracle, and you do not waste a bonus as the Pharaoh does (referring to empowerment). Your first priority though is to find second (sometimes third) food and gold locations from which you will be gathering. You need to do this before anything else otherwise you will run out of food and have to send your villagers into the black in search of their next huntable target. After you have done this you can begin uncovering black in any way you see fit really, but I suggest uncovering it as it pertains to whatever strategy you plan on using and/or depending on the opposing god you are facing. For example, if you are facing Kronos it is likely that you will be facing the Krush so it may be wise for you to run circles around your base to try and find out early which side he will be coming from. While if you are facing Egypt you may want to try and scout more on your opponent’s side of the map in order to find the gold so you can try to gold starve your opponent. You can also use your Kataskopos as a hit and run raider. Your scout will die in a 1v1 battle with any type of villager so if you choose to make sure not to stand and fight, simply hit the villager you want to disrupt and click away. It is also nice to harass enemy Oracles as they cannot attack you in return and if your opponent decides to heroize the Oracle then you have won because you just made them spend valuable resources on the weakest of their units while also slowing down their advance.

Advancing: Early, On Time, or Late
Everything you are doing in the Archaic Age is in preparation to advance to the Classical Age. I break this down into three possibilities and they revolve around the times at which you want to reach the Classical Age. Do you want to be early to Classical, on time to Classical, or late to Classical? This is the question you need to ask yourself and answer within the first 2 minutes of the game so you can change your build accordingly. For Hades, the following times are what I refer to when I think of early, on time, or late. An early advance is between 4:15 and 4:45, an on time advance is between 4:50 and 5:20, and a late advance is between 5:25 and 6:00. How you answer this question will depend on first, the opposing god you are facing and second, the strategy you plan to employ. Good scouting will help you ascertain what your opponent is planning and this will aid you in your decision. Remember though, on time is the more ideal for you and the most natural for you as Hades. Going up early and going up late are abnormal and will require that you pay more attention and put more effort into your Archaic Age. Keep this in mind as advancing on time happens less often than early or late because of how important it is to change based on your opponent’s major god choice. Also to be noted, on certain maps these times will end up being later do to lack of food. This lack of food affects all players so, for the most part, on such maps you should expect your opponent and yourself to be slightly slower in advancing. You may also find times when the map falls in your favor allowing you to advance earlier while still being naturally on time.

Advancing to the Classical Age
The god path of Hades for the Classical Age gives you a choice between Athena and Ares. Both of these minor gods are infantry based in their technologies but your strategy will differ greatly between the two. In general, Ares is a more aggressive god while Athena is a neutral god who can rush or sit back.

Ares

Pestilence: Ares’ God Power
Pestilence is a very nice god power. It stops all military buildings within range of where you cast the power from training any units. This includes docks, fortresses, temples and all mainline military buildings. The duration of the god power is 50 seconds and while the god power is in effect you gain line of sight from the point at which you cast Pestilence as though you had built a tower on that spot. Pestilence will also affect buildings that are in the process of being built. This god power is very handy while conducting a rush in order to help you take down the buildings that are affected or to attack other things such as a town center or helpless villagers. It can also be used to stop an opponent’s rush by stopping their military production and allowing you to raze the buildings while unopposed by military.

Cyclops: Ares’ Myth Unit

The Cyclops is a big hunk of beef, especially considering it is a Classical Age myth unit. A whopping 650 hit points in the Classical Age borders on ridiculous. Compared to other myth units it stands toe to toe with the Heroic Age myth units that are similar to it. Cyclops is basically a siege unit as it has 12 crush attack, but it has a one hit KO special attack versus human units that also does a small amount of splash damage to enemy units who happen to be in the area of where ever the enemy unit gets thrown. I have to admit that I love seeing Elephants go flying towards Chariot Archers. When you compare the Cyclops to the Mountain Giant and Scarab which are both myth units used as siege you come out basically even with the Scarab and lacking versus the Mountain Giant. However, add into the equation Ares’ upgrade for Cyclops, the Will of Kronos, and your Elder Cyclops is equal to Mountain Giants when it comes to attack damage, takes less population space and arguably has better pathing while special attack is debatable. Elder Cyclops easily over Scarabs. Remember, this is a Classical Age myth unit that I’m comparing to Heroic Age myth units. If you take resource cost into account you have a strong argument that the Elder Cyclops is better than the Mountain Giant. Did I mention Elder Cyclops train in just 15 seconds? The down side to Cyclops is the very poor pathing as well as the length of time the special attack takes. You sometimes run into the situation where your Cyclops picks up an enemy unit and proceeds to die before hurling the flailing unit to its death. Not only do you have a dead myth unit in this case, but the unit that was picked up gets off scott free. The food cost for Cyclops is another down side. Being rather high, you really shouldn’t make more than one additional Cyclops unless you’re on a high food map like Marsh. Also, the cost tends not to be worth it without the Will of Kronos upgrade. Cyclops cost 250 food and 20 favor. Have 650 hit points, 12 crush attack and 15 hack attack. Will of Kronos costs 200 food and 25 favor. Elder Cyclops cost the same as regular Cyclops and have the same number of hit points but train 5 seconds faster, have 24 crush attack, and 22 hack attack.

Upgrades: The Myth Techs of Ares
Ares grants you three myth techs. Phobos’ Spear of Panic increases the attack of your Hoplites while Deimos’ Sword of Dread increases the attack of your Hypaspists. Enyo’s Bow of Horror increases the attack of your Toxotes. Each of these techs can be researched in the Armory as well as in the building that trains the unit they affect. Both infantry techs cost 200 food and 15 favor while the Bow of Horror cost 200 gold and 20 favor. Each of these techs make for a good boost to your military. The most common unit combination you will use is Hoplite + Toxote so Ares fits right into your main military makeup. They aren’t too expensive but they aren’t exactly cheap either. Depending on your opponent’s unit choice try holding off getting these unless you need them or have the stable economy to easily afford them. And please, whatever you do, do not get Sword of Dread in Classical Age. It is pointless to spend resources on a unit you aren’t even able to make yet. You could maybe get it during the transition to the Heroic Age, but even then it is debatable whether you have crossed into the realm of stupidity.

Athena

Restoration: Athena’s God Power
Remember what the sexy voice of Athena says? “Use the Restoration god power to heal your units and mend your buildings.”
Restoration is a versatile god power. It can be used for an offensive strike or for a defensive boost. For seven seconds, rays of healing are sent down from the heavens upon all of your units and buildings basically making them impervious to enemy attack for these seven seconds. Used in the midst of a battle this guarantees you win the battle as long as you are at least close in numbers to your opponent. Used after a battle it will save you many resources that you would have to spend in order to replenish the troops you will soon lose. You can also use it after/while a destructive god power has been used on your forward base or home town to heal your buildings. Another possible use is to help you get a forward town center built while under attack. Restoration will keep your villagers alive; keep your opponent from razing the town center before it is complete and keep military alive to fight off the opposing army. It can give you those precious seconds to finish building your titan gate or restore a damaged wonder.

Minotaur: The Myth Unit of Athena

The Minotaur is a great myth unit and it is strong enough to be used throughout the game. This is largely due to its special attack and relatively high armor. The special attack doesn’t take long to recharge and it does a considerable amount of damage. The Minotaur also can withstand a decent amount of fire from heroes with pierce attacks, mainly Turma heroes. But the real asset to the Minotaur is the upgrade and resulting cheap buying price. Labyrinth of Minos will cost you a hefty 250 wood and 20 favor but in return you get a very cheap myth unit with almost 450 hit points. The Bull Minotaur costs just 150 food and 14 favor. These are now easily massed and the food cost does well to balance your economy nicely with the Toxote as the backbone for your army.

Upgrades: The Myth Techs of Athena
Athena grants you two myth techs, both of which improve the armor of your infantry. Aegis Shield improves the pierce armor of all infantry and Sarissa improves the hack armor of your Hoplites. Both of these techs are a bit pricy for what they do but that extra armor sure does make your infantry harder to kill. Aegis Shield will cost 300 wood and 25 favor and Sarissa costs 200 w and 20 favor. Do to the high cost, try researching these techs later on when you possibly have advanced through Hephaestus and have made your Armory upgrades cheaper with his Forge of Olympus. These two techs can be researched in the Armory or in the Military Academy.

The Choice: Ares vs. Athena
The choice between these two minor gods mostly comes down to what you plan to accomplish. Athena is generally the better if you plan on or need to be defending more while Ares is generally better if you plan on attacking more. It is also advised to consider your opposing god and what you will likely be facing. If you are facing an opponent with an early forward build Ares is probably the better choice as the Pestilence god power and Cyclops will help you easily raze the forward build. You really can’t go wrong with either in most situations.

Relic Hunting: Late Archaic and Early Classical
While you were scouting in Archaic you probably found some relics. Being Greek you weren’t able to pick them up since Ajax cannot be created until you get a temple built. Getting the relics, even if they’re “crappy” ones should be something you do in late Archaic through early Classical Age. If you find a really good relic such as the Eye of Horus (grants extra population), a trickle relic or other high quality relic you’ll want to get Ajax before you advance because these relics are worth fighting a small battle over and Ajax will win most, if not all of these small skirmishes. If the relics you find are less than great then go ahead and get Ajax upon reaching the Classical Age and pick them up with the help of Chiron also.

The Classical Transition
During the transition to the Classical age you will want to set yourself up for whatever strategy you plan on using if you haven’t done so already. This is the time to shift villagers from one resource to another in order to gather enough of the right resource that you will need. This is also the time to research Pick Axe and Hand Axe in most cases. You may also find that this is the best time to research Husbandry, but depending on map you may have researched it already or won’t need it for a while yet. You are also free to put a lot of attention into scouting during this time as you have no new units being trained and it only takes a few clicks to shift villagers to the resource you need them. There shouldn’t be very much of the map left in the black once you reach the Classical Age because you’ve got plenty of time and a fast enough scout. The transition time is also a great time to do some hit and run with your Kataskopos on enemy villagers. If you already have Ajax you can use him to harass as well. Just be sure not to send them to their death under enemy town center fire.

The Classical Age

First Things First
As you reach the Classical Age there are a couple of things that take priority over everything else. The first of these is getting some military buildings up. No matter what strategy you are going to use you are going to need at least one Archery Range and either a Military Academy or a Stable. That’s two military buildings. More often than not I end up with three. You won’t always have two different but having one melee and one support is usually the best course of action to start out with. The more villagers you use to build a building the faster it will be built, this is obvious to most but I say it anyway so as to be thorough. The length of time it takes to build each of the three main line military buildings is the same. It takes 22 seconds for one villager to build an Archery Range, 17 seconds with two villagers, 14 seconds with three villagers, 12 seconds with four villagers and 10 seconds with five villagers. I like to have three villagers do my building, two of them on one building and the other on the second building. The two finish and automatically change to the second building and the end result is that I have two military buildings built in about 22 seconds. If I were to have all three build the same building at the same time it would take them 28 seconds to finish both buildings. This isn’t very important when facing non aggressive players but when you are in need of troops in a hurry the speed at which you build your buildings matters a lot. Better to be in the habit of building quickly than building slowly.
Early Classical Age is also the time to get most of the rest of your houses built. As any beginner guide will probably tell you, build them around your towers. If you’ve already used Sentinel you can also build them around your living statues. In most games you can begin to auto queue Toxotes at this point also. This is not always the case but being Hades you will train a few Toxotes even if you do not put them on auto queue.

Once you’ve got your military buildings up and clicked for a few military units to be trained you can turn your attention to setting up your economy. You will almost always need to send most of your villagers after advancing to the Classical Age to gather wood because all of your buildings cost wood and so does your best unit, the Toxote. You want to gradually build more and more buildings, getting the tower upgrades when you can afford them. The more buildings you have the better. Remember, since you are Hades your buildings are stronger. Go ahead and take advantage of that and build away.

After that you begin to get into game by game strategy so I’m going to leave that stuff for later on. Let’s move on to the choosing of your Heroic minor god.

Advancing to the Heroic Age
The god path of Hades for the Heroic Age gives you the choice between Aphrodite and Apollo. Aphrodite will give you an economic boost while Apollo will give you some tactical advantages.

Aphrodite

Curse: Aphrodite’s God Power
Curse is a sub par god power when compared to most others though it does come in handy and often allows you to win a battle. Curse will turn a handful of enemy units into pigs. I say handful because most often the number is 5 or 6. Though this doesn’t seem like much it almost always transfers into a battle won. This allows you to control the little piggies and send them home to be eaten. A nice little free source of food, not that you really need it at this point in the game, but it is still free.

Nemean Lion: The Myth Unit of Aphrodite

The Nemean Lion is another high quality myth unit for your army. They are great for flanking archers as their pierce armor is a fat 60%. They also have a good amount of hit points at 660. With 10 crush attack and 20 hack attack the Nemean Lion makes for a mighty unit. They cost 250 gold and 22 favor. The cost is about right for what you get from them and the favor shouldn’t be hard to come by after you’ve researched Golden Apples. However, they do get better because of the Roar of Orthus. Roar of Orthus cost 300 food and 20 favor and increases the armor of your Nemean Lions to 43 % hack armor and 80 % pierce armor. Your Nemean Rex is now an archer eating machine and stands tall among the melee fighting. For the special attack the roar of the lion brings a splash damage attack. Affecting all enemy units within short range of the roar you can use this to your advantage by focusing your Toxotes on the damaged units for quicker kills. All in all the Nemean Lion is just a great unit. Just an interesting side note, while in game ‘Nemean’ is spelled ‘Nemion’ when appearing on the unit creation announcements. For example, upon reaching the Heroic Age it says, “Aphrodite has granted you a Nemion Lion...”

Upgrades: The Myth Techs of Aphrodite
Aphrodite grants you two myth techs and both of them improve your economic output and they are both researched in the town center. The first of these is Golden Apples. Golden Apples increases the rate at which your villagers will gather favor when at a Temple and it is rather cheap. Just 200 food and 150 gold and your favor comes rolling in nicely. Don’t think you’re going to be outdoing Zeus’ favor gathering though as Golden Apples doesn’t give that great a boost. I conducted some tests to see exactly how much Golden Apples increases the gather rate for favor and here are the numbers:
Favor Test
I had five villagers lined up ready to worship at the temple. I began with one beginning to gather at the minute mark. I paused the game at the end of a minute and take down how much favor was gathered. I then order one additional villager to worship while the game is paused. I unpause the game and repeat for up to five villagers.

Favor Trickle w/o Golden Apples
One Villager: 5 per minute

Two Villagers: 9 per minute

Three Villagers: 14 per minute

Four Villagers: 17 per minute

Five Villagers: 21 per minute

Favor Trickle with Golden Apples
One Villager: 5 per minute

Two Villagers: 11 per minute

Three Villagers: 16 per minute

Four Villagers: 20 per minute

Five Villagers: 24 per minute

Zeus Favor Trickle
One Villager: 7 per minute

Two Villagers: 13 per minute

Three Villagers: 19 per minute

Four Villagers: 24 per minute

Five Villagers: 29 per minute


So as you see, Golden Apples gives a very nice boost to your favor income, but doesn’t even come close to matching Zeus. You should also take note that Golden Apples doesn’t begin to have an impact until you are using two villagers to gather favor. I personally don’t like having any less than three on favor after early Classical. If you want to spam myth units then I would suggest no less than five as this gives you enough favor for one Classical or Heroic myth unit per minute as long as you’ve got Golden Apples.

The second myth tech Aphrodite grants you is Divine Blood. This is a huge boost to your economy as it increases the amount that your villagers can carry, increases their walking speed and makes them build buildings faster. The increased carrying capacity means your villagers are spending more time gathering the resource and less time walking to and from the drop site. The increased walking speed makes the walking time very short. Together these two increases mean that your villagers are spending more time gathering resources so you will be taking in those resources faster. The building faster isn’t as great a benefit as the walking speed and carrying capacity but it makes your titan gate or wonder get built faster. In a wonder race or a titan race this can mean the difference between a win and loss. Divine Blood cost 200 food and 35 favor.

Apollo

Underworld Passage: Apollo’s God Power
Underworld Passage is quite the useful god power as you can easily use it for offensive or defensive moves. The premise is simple, but using it effectively is not. Your Underworld Passage will have 2250 hit points (boosted by Hades’ bonus), 5% crush armor, 40% hack armor, and 69% pierce armor while giving any of your units (except Titan) quick passage from one spot of the map to another. The key to where ever you place the passage is to be able to defend it and establish a position at each end. The only time when you will not have this in mind is when using Underworld as a way to raze a titan gate or wonder that you other wise could not reach in time. In these cases you will want to have ample troops to take down the wonder or gate with the first or second wave, otherwise you will undoubtedly have your Underworld Passage razed by the enemy without much trouble. The passage can be used to defend yourself as well if attacked without warning at a point where you are vulnerable. Very useful is any game, the Underworld Passage is a great god power.

Manticore: The Myth Unit of Apollo

The Manticore is a mediocre myth unit. 420 hit points and average armor makes it easy pickings for most units when those units are upgraded. However, against Norse and Atlantian opponents the ranged attack works very well as neither have easy access to heroes that can reach your Manticore. The Manticore does well as a support unit among your Toxotes but is easily the weakest of all the myth units Hades could possibly get. This does not mean though it is not worth using. As long as you keep them from melee attackers they work very well. Not commonly seen, but they can be used for raids as well.

Upgrades: Myth Techs of Apollos
Apollos gives you three myth techs and they each provide you with some sort of tactical advantage over the enemy. Sun Ray is the most direct in that it boosts the attack strength of all your ranged units human and myth. Costing 200 gold and 30 favor this is a tech that is probably best saved for when you can easily afford it but you should surely have this tech researched by the end of nearly all of your games in which you advanced through Apollo.

The second myth tech is Oracle. Oracle grants extra line of sight to all of your units and buildings. This is one of my favorite techs as the extra line of sight provides so much more information than you would normally have. I love being able to use the line of sight from a pig or goat to cast Underworld Passage behind the enemy. You’re also able to see the enemy coming sooner. The only building that will have greater line of sight than yours will be the Lighthouse. It is also very cheap as it costs just 150 wood and 10 favor. I get this tech before Carrier Pigeons because it is cheaper and accomplishes the same result.

The last myth tech Apollo gives you is Temple of Healing. This can be very useful as long as you take advantage of it. If you don’t have Temples near your front lines then this isn’t worth your time as you would have to retreat too far to be reasonable. With it your Temples become the fastest healers in the game outside of the Restoration god power. The tech comes at a low cost as well only being 150 gold and 20 favor. Being able to heal your units is a great asset as it will save you valuable resources which in turn allows you to advance faster to the Mythic Age and also research upgrades faster. My recommendation for using this tech is to have two Temples near your front lines so you can retreat to them easily and return to battle quickly after you’ve sufficiently healed your units.

The Choice: Aphrodite vs. Apollo
This choice is a bit easier to make than your choice for Classical Age minor god. I find myself choosing Aphrodite slightly more than Apollo because I like to have the strong economy and ability to use myth units more as well as having a stronger myth unit. However, I would say that Apollo is an excellent choice versus all Norse as they have a hard time against ranged myth units and Oracle makes spotting their forward building and raiding much easier. As a general rule of thumb you should go with Aphrodite versus Egypt and Atlantis while going Apollo when facing Norse. When facing Greek the decision is more up in the air as it will depend more on what is happening in the particular game.

The Heroic Age

Once you’ve made it to the Heroic Age you’re sure to be in the midst of increasingly more frequent battles and struggle for map control. Fortunately for you, Greeks are very strong in the Heroic Age. You’ve now gained access to all of your hard counter human units as well as being the only civilization to have long ranged siege on land with the Petrobolos. Having the Petrobolos makes gaining map control for you much easier than for others as you can easily protect them with your already stronger Hades Toxotes while they take down buildings so you can erect your own.

Advancing to the Mythic Age
The god path for Hades provides you with the choice between Artemis and Hephaestus. Artemis will give you a devastating god power and boosts for your ranged units while Hephaestus will give you a very large economic boost as well as a mini Titan in the Colossus.

Artemis

Earthquake: Artemis’ God Power
Earthquake is one of the, if not the, most devastating god powers. Dealing a huge amount of damage to all buildings within range it is ideal for taking down a titan gate or a wonder. Earthquake is great to use on bunches of houses as it greatly decreases the population of your opponent rapidly giving you an immediate advantage because they won’t be able to replenish their military as they no longer have the pop space. Earthquake also does well to help take out forward bases of your opponent with just one click of your mouse. And if that one click isn’t enough the buildings that are left are sure to be engulfed in flame and easily taken down by your army.

Chimera: The Myth Unit of Artemis

The Chimera is a fabulous unit. With 800 hit points and 60% hack and pierce armor the Chimera is even a tough kill for most heroes. But the Chimera really shines because of its special attack. With a wave of the serpent tail it deals damage to several units at a time with a breath of fire. This is especially effective when used to raid enemy villagers. If that weren’t enough you can upgrade these beasts to Chimera Tyrants with the Flames of Typhon at the cost of 400 food and 20 favor. The Chimera Tyrant has 960 hit points and 6 more attack, making it even more devastating in combat.

Upgrades: Myth Techs of Artemis
Artemis has three myth techs for you. One of which I just described, Flames of Typhon. The second is the Trierarch tech that boosts your arrow ships by making them more resistant to siege ships. Trierarch would be nice if you had access to it in the Heroic age but you don’t so it has very little effect on the game. The last myth tech Artemis grants you is the Shafts of Plague. Costing 300 gold and 40 favor, Shafts of Plague will increase the attack of your Toxotes and Peltasts. As if your Hades archers weren’t strong enough already…

Hephaestus

Plenty Vault: Hephaestus’ God Power
The Plenty Vault is, in my opinion, the easiest god power to use. All you have to do is place it in a safe place and you’ve got a trickle of resources for food, wood, and gold. This free and never ending supply of resources makes your economy one of the best and the only reason it isn’t the best is because of Pharaoh Empowerment for Egypt. Though if combined with the economic technologies of Aphrodite you may very well have a good argument for best late game economy. The trickle for each resource is the same and it amounts to 180 resources per minute. That’s more than three times the amount that Vaults of Erebus and Flood of the Nile grant for gold and food respectively and the Plenty Vault gives you food, wood, and gold rather than just one of those.

Colossus: The Myth Unit of Hephaestus

The Colossus is by far the best siege type myth unit with its high armor and high amount of hit points. The Colossus even can withstand being attacked by the Heroes which are supposed to be its counter for quite a while. In fact Heroes aren’t even considered to be the best counter to Colossus. That distinction goes to the one hit KO myth units such as the Mummy. As if 1100 hit points were not enough, Hephaestus gives you not one, but two myth techs that increase Colossus hit points by 200 each. These two increases bring your Colossus up to 1500 hit points. Only a titan has more hit points. Better still is the healing ability that Colossus own. By eating gold piles and trees the Colossus will gain hit points for every one resource a villager would have gathered. (one tree=150 wood so a Colossus would gain 150 hit points) The Colossus is truly a beast of a myth unit.

Upgrades: The Myth Techs of Hephaestus
The two myth techs for Colossus that I just mentioned are the Hand of Talos and the Shoulder of Talos. Their total cost is the same but the Hand requires wood and the Shoulder requires gold. 300 wood or gold as well as 20 favor for these upgrades. Sometimes not worth getting if you’re already rolling over your opponent but they become useful in long games.

The Forge of Olympus is the next tech Hephaestus gives you. This tech is one of my favorites as it ends up saving you a huge amount of resources. This tech will greatly reduce the cost of everything that you research in the armory. This includes any myth techs. (I originally had a chart to show the difference between the costs with and without Forge of Olympus but it looked horrible the way it came up on the message board.)

In most cases you aren’t going to be able to skip getting the copper upgrades so you will rarely save on that level of armory upgrades. On occasion you will save on the bronze upgrades but you will certainly always save on the iron upgrades as well as Burning Pitch. With these resources saved you have more resources for your army and buildings. You will also save on any armory myth techs you’ve yet to research.

The last myth tech of Hephaestus is his Weapon of the Titans. This tech costs 400 gold and 20 favor and will increase the attack strength of your unique unit…the Gastraphetes.

The Choice: Artemis vs. Hephaestus
This choice is most often determined by whether or not you can win the game with Earthquake or not. Otherwise you are always wise to go with Hephaestus because his upgrades and god power are much more useful in the long run.

Hades Unique Unit: The Gastaphetes
The Gastraphetes is a great unit because of its versatility. It doubles as an archer and siege with both pierce attack and crush attack. With the addition of Burning Pitch it only takes a handful of these little buggers to eat up buildings with ease. In nearly every game Gastraphetes will take the place of your Petrobolos (you’ll still want to use Heliopolis) because they also out range building attack but they have the added ability to run if attacked. They also do not need the protection of Toxotes like your Petrobolos do. Your Gastraphetes will also greatly help you to kill an enemy titan as they have crush attack, the weakest armor of titans. Beast Slayer makes them even better for the killing of titans. With both Burning Pitch and Beast Slayer the Gastraphetes becomes a unit that can take down buildings as well as myth units with ease. They do need to be used in groups to be effective though, but that is true for most units. The down side to the Gastraphetes is its high cost and low hit points. Toxotes are better versus human units so don’t abandon Toxotes in favor of Gastraphetes. However, Gastraphetes are definitely a unit that you should be using.

Well, that’s the run down from Archaic up through Mythic. Now I’d like to highlight some strategies for when you are facing the different civilizations. I’m going to talk about each civilization in general so there may be some things that may be more or less effective against a particular major god of the civilization.

Versus Greece
Ah, Greek wars. I love them. These are often some of the longest games and also some of the more fun ones. Often times it comes down to who has the better micro for their army and raids or both. The range of strategies that any Greek can successfully use is so wide that it is hard to say what is best for Hades to do. However, I’m of the opinion that a 5:00 minute Classical is the best way to go. This advance gives you a stable economy that can either build an army or boom to Heroic with a second town center. It is important to remember that getting to Heroic is more important in Greek wars than it is in other cases because of how you will have such a large advantage over your opponent by getting there first. This is because of the way Greeks obtain their units. All of the counter units become available in Heroic so if you can be in Heroic while your Greek opponent is in Classical then you should be able to win every battle as long as you micro your army properly. When facing Zeus you’ll probably find that Athena is the better Classical god. This is because you will likely be going with a mix of Hoplite and Toxote so the hack and pierce armor upgrades really help when facing a Zeus who will also likely be using the same military combination. In the event that Zeus is making Hippikon Athena’s techs again come in handy to make your hoplites more resistant to your opponent’s attacks. When facing Poseidon you’ll likely want to go with Ares, mainly for his god power. You’ll be hard pressed to stop an earlier advance with Hippikon raids from Poseidon so stopping his military production early can give you the needed time to protect your villagers. For Heroic you’ll most often want to go with Aphrodite because of her economic upgrades and because the Nemean Lions are much better than Manticore versus another Greek. This is especially true versus Zeus so you can lessen his advantage in favor gathering. For Mythic it comes down to your position in the game. If you’ve got a clear advantage then you’ll want to go with Artemis to (hopefully) end the game with a well placed Earthquake. If you’re in for a longer game then you will surely want the economic strength of Hephaestus as well as stronger siege with Colossus and ability to improve Gastraphetes with Weapon of the Titans. Be weary of the Centaur Strangle and take map control as soon as possible. Classical fighting is often a good strategy with this match up but you should take the opportunity to boom if you get it. As I mentioned, getting to Heroic first could mean victory and getting there late could mean your defeat. As is the case for the other Greeks, Petrobolos protected by Toxotes is a strong combination. Try to take advantage of it while also protecting yourself against it. The added hit points for your buildings will help in this area.

Versus Norse
DO NOT MAKE PELTASTS! Peltasts have 3.3 attack, Toxotes have 7.2. Peltasts get bonus damage versus Throwing Axeman but Toxotes already beat Throwing Axeman easily. Peltasts have 10 more hit points but will do horribly against all other Norse Units because of weak base attack. Better pierce armor is of little important since Norse has no human unit that does pierce damage and very few Norse opponents will be using Trolls against you. DO NOT MAKE PELTASTS!

More often than not you will want to advance slightly earlier against Norse opponents. Between 4:30 and 4:45 is probably what you should be aiming for. Earlier against a certain rush but a wise Norse will not forward build against Hades because it is so easy for you to raze it with Pestilence. You’ll find the Ares is often the better choice versus Norse because of the unit choices you will inevitably be using to combat him. Most often you will find yourself using Hypastpysts and Prodromos with Toxotes as your backbone. Ares’ myth techs help this combination more than Athena and the Cyclops performs better than the Minotaur against Norse in my opinion. For Heroic, Apollo is probably the better choice but you cannot go wrong with Aphrodite. Apollo is the slight favorite because of the Manticore’s range and pierce damage attack as well as being able to easily get behind the Norse with Underworld Passage to take advantage of his weaker buildings with your long range siege. For Mythic it is a bit of a toss up. The weaker buildings of the Norse will make Earthquake a bit more effective but the added economy boost from Hephaestus is important in the face of an impending Ragnarok to provide for ample ability to pump troops and recover the ground you will inevitably lose because of the Rag. Either the Chimera or the Colossus will do well also. If you think you can end it with Earthquake go with Artemis. If you are unsure then go with Hephaestus.

You will want to wall off your gathering areas as much as possible versus Norse because of how easy it is for them to raid. Most often you’ll be up against Freyja as well so that only makes the raids stronger. Be prepared by having two wood gathering spots so Forest Fire doesn’t hurt you as badly. You should be able to Classical fight but you should not mull around in Classical for very long. Only fight a battle you are sure of winning and get to Heroic. A second town center can be taken against a less aggressive Norse player before going to Heroic. You will gain the advantage there with access to your counter units and the Petrobolos will help you raze the Norse base that is likely to be in the middle of the map. If you’re on a water map you will be at a very large disadvantage, especially versus Thor and his armory. Water is Hades’ weakest point in my experience and it is only amplified against Norse who have strong arrow ships in Classical and can advance quickly to Heroic. Try as much as possible to keep the heavy fighting located on land as you will lose in most water battles to the stronger Norse navy.

Versus Egypt
In these match ups you will almost always want to go along with the Egypt player and Fast Heroic. Athena is usually the better choice but Ares will also work. Restoration tends to be more useful versus Egypt than Pestilence and the attack based techs of Ares don’t get used as much because you will be using more cavalry and archers than infantry. The Cyclops does well against Elephants though so Ares is viable. Heroic there is no question that you will want Aphrodite. You will need to have the added economic boost in order to be able to keep up with the Egypt player and the Nemean Lion (used with Prodromos and Toxotes) is your ticket to beating Elephants. For Mythic I think you’ll find that you again need to go with economy and advance with Hephaestus.

As I mentioned, when faced with Elephants you’ll need to be able to spam Nemean Lions to aid your army of Prodromos and Toxotes. You will otherwise find it difficult to beat the OP Elephants. You’ll also need to be sure to keep pace with age advancement; you will otherwise be over run by a titan. You will be in for a long game in most cases. Take advantage of your ranged siege in Heroic as much as you can. Prodromos will be a large part of your army so if you find relics that boost cavalry you need to get them. Fight for them if necessary. Use plenty of myth units, especially in Mythic. It is important also to raid the market trade. This isn’t very difficult for Hades in Mythic because just a few Gastraphetes can raze a market easily. Tower upgrades are also important versus Egypt, namely Crenellations. It will benefit you greatly to have towers near each of your town centers and any other spot where you’ve got military buildings.

Versus Atlantian
This is probably the toughest match up for Hades because of how quickly Atlantians advance and attack. Both Kronos and Oranos make it very hard to even get off the ground. You must wall around your base to protect your gathering spots as well as advance early to be able to fight off the Turma that will assuredly be roaming around looking to kill your villagers. For Classical I often go with a 15 villager advance. With Ares and Pestilence you can give yourself an extra minute and possibly raze a Kronos forward base that was too aggressively placed. With Athena you get a battle won with Restoration and uber cheap Minotaur that do very well against Atlantian classical army. Either way, you need to get to Classical asap if you want to play beyond 10 minutes. For Heroic it is almost always better to go with Aphrodite so you can spam myth units. For Mythic I like to go Artemis because Earthquake works great against the weaker Atlantian buildings and Chimera raiding is very strong against Atlantians. Hephaestus is also a good choice though.

When facing Atlantians you should go with a balanced army, 1-1-1 Hoplite-Hippikon-Toxote. You also need to spam myth units as much as possible because it will be hard for the Atlantian to continue to make heroes to counter them. As mentioned, Aphrodite is perfect for this purpose. However, in the event you think you’ll have to fight longer in classical Athena becomes a good choice because of how cheap Minotaur become once you’ve researched Labyrinth of Minos. This is especially true on low food maps where making Cyclops would mean your death because you couldn’t advance do to lack of food. Once in Heroic you need to be watchful for Destroyers. Your Toxotes will not be enough to take these guys down because they have such high pierce armor so you need to be ready with some Hypaspysts near your critical buildings. Your Petrobolos will be especially effective in these games because Atlantians don’t have great cavalry and their buildings are weaker. Take advantage of this as much as possible. If the game gets to Mythic you need to prepare to fight their titan as it will be coming sooner rather than later. If you’re able to be in Mythic in time, Earthquake will often be a deterrent and the Atlantian will wait to build a titan. In this case it is like a win for you as your Mythic is stronger than theirs. When fighting Atlantians your battles will be very micro intensive because of the unit match ups. Be sure not to neglect your economy and check up on it after each battle.

So that’s the basics of fighting each civilization. Let’s move on to some thoughts for each map.

Alfheim
This map is a decent map for Hades as you are able to wall off well because of the trees and hills. The downside though is the lack of hunting that usually is on this map. You will have the rare occasion when you’ve got good hunting but most of the time you’ll find two groups of three deer and maybe some bears. Because of this it is usually good to get to Heroic quicker than you normally would for better farming and this is doable with ample walling (made easier by hills and trees). Watch out for sneaky ways of putting troops on hill tops. Rocs are the main culprit here.

Anatolia
Being a semi water map, Hades tends to have a disadvantage but since the majority of the fighting is in the middle of this map it is far from impossible. The key to Anatolia is to be able to secure gold. Most of the gold is located in the middle of the map so that’s where you’ll want to set up camp. Always fish on both sides and defend water; however I do not feel it wise to over exert yourself on water. Your opponent won’t be able to beat you on both sides simultaneously so you can afford to lose one side while gaining an advantage on the other. One tactic that is usually done by Zeus and Norse is to build near the water and attack docks with land and water troops simultaneously. This can work on occasion if you advance with Ares as Cyclops will be important for this strategy to work for you. Remember though that this isn’t really a strong tactic for Hades so don’t put all your faith in it. Don’t forget though that the real prize is the middle of the map.

Ghost Lake
This map is often low on close hunt but almost always has a large group of huntable animals toward the sides of the map. You’ll want to find these spots quickly so you can get a good advance and a stable economy. This map is notorious for bad gold placement as well. Often a majority of the gold will be on one side of the map so controlling these areas is critical. You must scout well to know where the gold is or your opponent will get there first and you’ll be starved of gold. Because of how the map is set up with hills you can usually wall up the corners of your side to help protect yourself but the frozen lake in the center prevents suitable walling there. For this map building spam is recommended to help you control the areas that have the gold. Plenty of military buildings and towers, you can never have enough.

Highland
This map is usually a good one for Hades as you can fish and there is enough hunting to get you to Heroic with out much difficulty. The big thing for this map is to control the middle since it is a little bit like Jotunheim with the water taking the place of the cliff barrier. Do keep in mind though that ships can easily be used to cross over the water. Resources are spread evenly on each side and Market trade tends to be easier because of the water. Petrobolos can be used to great effect to push your opponent off of water if needed as well. Underworld Passage becomes very helpful in the event that you are unable to push through the middle of the map. Be careful to watch for units sneaking around to your side and try to sneak to your opponent’s side yourself so you can attack from behind.

Marsh
This map is very high hunt so you should be able to advance quickly. This map also has 4 relics so you are always going to want to get out Ajax early to get the good ones, they’re always in the middle of the map. Controlling the middle of this map usually leads to victory as well. Marsh is also a map that can be walled because of the water patches and forest placement though not as well as Alfheim. You need to be prepared for being rushed on this map because the high amount of hunting makes it very easy for your opponent to advance quickly and have a strong force early. Another nice thing about this map is that you will usually have plenty of gold that is close to your home town center. This helps to keep your villagers safe early on but don’t make the mistake of just staying home and being a turtle Hades. Take forward gold and if you lose position you can retreat to the safety of the close mines.

Mediterranean
This is easily the worst map for Hades because of his weak navy. With no water myth unit and no navy upgrades until Mythic (not that it is that great either) the chances of winning this map are against you. Ares is very helpful to try and beat your opponent off water early though with Pestilence and Cyclops. If you catch your opponent with one dock you’ll be in good shape. Make sure to only fight battles that you can win and to retreat to the safety of your docks when you are outnumbered. 7-8 villagers on wood is usually good for Archaic but you’ll need to pump more to wood after your advance to maintain the economy for ships and docks. Your best bet is to keep the attack pressure on land to try and take the focus away from the water where you are weaker most of the time.

Midgard
This is another water map so Hades will again be at a disadvantage but this map also has plenty of hunting so you are not resigned to having to fight hard for water. This map will also have most of the battles on land which is a blessing for Hades since his navy is weak. The tricky thing about Midgard is finding where the hunting and fishing are. Often, the hunting will not be in your initial line of sight so you will probably have to go to berries/chikens first. Your dock villager should be sent off at game start also and build the dock towards the corner where the fish are usually gathered. You will sometimes be map screwed with regards to fish though, which is unfortunate. Often times the extra town centers will be within range of siege ships. Keep this in mind for attacking and defending. Securing gold is very important on this map as well because Market trade is reduced because of the water.

Oasis
This map is tough on everybody since it is low on food. In my experience it has been a poor map for Hades but there are others that seem to do well here because a Toxote heavy army is usually good for Hades and this allows for saving food. Because of the lack of food Ares usually isn’t a great idea because you can’t be spending food on Cyclops or the infantry myth techs that you need for an army and advance. Athena and Aphrodite are almost always the best choices as each of them have high quality myth units that your resources can afford easily and the economic boost from Aphrodite helps greatly for generating the food that is so scarce here. You should try to wall up your side as much as you can because this map is so open. If you do not you will not have good Market trade later in the game and you will be easily raided.

Savanna
This is one of the more open maps and because of that you should be alert for raids slightly more than on other maps. It is good to protect remote gathering spots with one or two towers here. The hunting on this map is usually high but will not often be docile hunt so you’ll need to be careful with your food villagers that you don’t lose them to attacking animals. The strategy here is very flexible since the map is so open. There usually aren’t easily walled off spots so you are often able to have your army attack at weak points while your opponent can do the same. Be aggressively passive. By that I mean create what I call “building lush.” Basically, think of Gaia’s lush, and create your own “lush” with buildings. You can then use your Petrobolos under the protection of your towers and fortresses.

Tundra
This is a nice map for Hades as it has plenty of resources that are close to home. This map is open so raiding is frequent but there are a lot of places to gather from so you can sometimes escape raids by simply getting lucky at a spot where your opponent doesn’t look. Tundra is also a good map to try for a forward town center. Be sure to bring a few troops plus free myth unit and at least one hero if you do. Like Savanna attacking at weak points is easier because the map is so open.

Watering Hole
This is a good map for Hades as it has good starting hunt and plenty of hunt after that. It is also easy to wall off your home town center as well as choke points created by the water. One thing to remember about this map is that the relics are always in the same spots, on the sides towards the corner of the map, one near each player. The middle of this map is where most of the action takes place and winning control of the middle will most often mean victory and losing it, defeat. You’ll also want to take advantage of the water by using ships to aid your land army. The town centers in the middle are almost always within range of siege ships. You should also be able to have a strong Market trade on this map because it is easy to wall off and the town center placement usual puts one near a side of the map.

Well, that's all I’ve got. I hope this is helpful to anyone wishing to improve their Hades skills.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."
Replies:
posted 11 March 2008 08:59 PM EDT (US)     1 / 32  
oh... my... damn...


This is the EVERYTHING HADES guide.

<3

well done.
posted 11 March 2008 10:03 PM EDT (US)     2 / 32  
Look's good.

///~~[Crusading Knight]~~\\\
\\\~~[Crusading Knight]~~///
And when he gets to Heaven,
To Saint Peter he will tell,
One more soldier reporting Sir,
I've served my time in Hell.
posted 12 March 2008 01:38 AM EDT (US)     3 / 32  
and you do not waste a bonus as the Pharaoh does
They nerfed scouting with priests now :P ?

"True, I think would wear a dress for a day if ESO could make a patch to stop cheating, but I'll drink to anyone that takes AoM over that crappy game play of AoE III. Its like every civ is ATTY, its a disgusting game" -WNxDullahan
posted 12 March 2008 04:24 AM EDT (US)     4 / 32  
Nope, but it's still terrible.
posted 12 March 2008 06:09 AM EDT (US)     5 / 32  
This is finally a good Hades guide. I still have a few things to remark.
The food cost for Cyclops is another down side. Being rather high, you really shouldn’t make more than one additional Cyclops unless you’re on a high food map like Marsh. Also, the cost tends not to be worth it without the Will of Kronos upgrade.
Proving that despite all you wrote, cyclopses are not worth making. Or are you serious about researching a 200 food 25 favor upgrade for a unit of which you will only have 2 all through the game? The upgrade may be nice, but it is not worth 100 food/12.5 favor per cyclops, and without it, the cyclops is too expensive to be worth training, as you are saying yourself.

Rather than wasting so much precious classical food on cyclopses, I would rather use it to get to heroic age, the age of Greek thanks to the availability of powerful counter units and ranged siege.
Restoration will keep your villagers alive; keep your opponent from razing the town center before it is complete and keep military alive to fight off the opposing army. It can give you those precious seconds to finish building your titan gate or restore a damaged wonder.
I have yet to see an Athena player who still has Restoration in mythic age.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
posted 12 March 2008 10:07 AM EDT (US)     6 / 32  
I have yet to see an Athena player who still has Restoration in mythic age.
I've seen about 20 FM Hades that have it still in mythic age.

ESPECIALLY FT Hades.

Curse + Restoration + either EQ to prevent enemy from getting titan or Plenty Vault for some resources mixed with hyps, nemeans (or chimera), peltasts, and heroes almost always ensures a titan.
posted 12 March 2008 11:02 AM EDT (US)     7 / 32  
I have faced several FM Poseidons before, but I have yet to encounter a Hades that tries such a thing against me. Well, perhaps it is more common in team games.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
posted 12 March 2008 11:06 AM EDT (US)     8 / 32  
They nerfed scouting with priests now :P ?
I was referring to the Pharaoh's empowerment not being used while he is scouting. The face makes me think you knew that but I thought I'd clarify anyway.
Proving that despite all you wrote, cyclopses are not worth making. Or are you serious about researching a 200 food 25 favor upgrade for a unit of which you will only have 2 all through the game? The upgrade may be nice, but it is not worth 100 food/12.5 favor per cyclops, and without it, the cyclops is too expensive to be worth training, as you are saying yourself.

Rather than wasting so much precious classical food on cyclopses, I would rather use it to get to heroic age, the age of Greek thanks to the availability of powerful counter units and ranged siege.
Cyclops are worth making given the right game situation. They are very good if you're in a long Classical fight and can be useful later on in the game if you advanced through Apollo and need a melee myth unit. The Will of Kronos nearly doubles the attack strength so it is surely worth it. Training a second Cyclops on Mediterranean (maybe Anatolia) can also be a good decision to help raze docks when Hades would otherwise be losing water quickly because of his weak navy.
I have yet to see an Athena player who still has Restoration in mythic age.
This is probably because it is better used early against Thor and since you only play Thor that is what you see. I was also just naming some of the possible uses and all of the ones I mentioned fit that criteria. Squeoo gave a good example of an actual situation. It is also true, as you mention, that it is more likely in team games.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."

[This message has been edited by sdw12umdjc (edited 03-12-2008 @ 11:10 AM).]

posted 12 March 2008 01:39 PM EDT (US)     9 / 32  
Again, DaP. You are thor.

Like he said, they use it classical to fight you because thats the best tactic against thor.

If you were Ra, Gaia, Loki (forsetti on large maps), or Another Hades you would find this happens pretty frequently.


Although, against some Loki Hades goes OMG WTF aggressive.
posted 12 March 2008 04:09 PM EDT (US)     10 / 32  
Wow... This is really impressive. Wow...

posted 13 March 2008 09:24 PM EDT (US)     11 / 32  
Another possible use is to help you get a forward town center built while under attack...keep your opponent from razing the town center before it is complete...It can give you those precious seconds to finish building your titan gate or restore a damaged wonder.
So Restoration works on uncompleted buildings? Interesting.
posted 13 March 2008 11:09 PM EDT (US)     12 / 32  
It will only heal unfinished buildings to the point they are currently built. It won't "build" the building for you.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."
posted 14 March 2008 03:18 AM EDT (US)     13 / 32  
I have faced several FM Poseidons before,
I would've thought Zeus (possibly semi) FM would be more common?
I have yet to see an Athena player who still has Restoration in mythic age.
This is probably because it is better used early against Thor and since you only play Thor that is what you see
Good answer.

Although I do admit, seeing restoration in mythic is often a rare occurence

-[Hello..
posted 14 March 2008 03:52 AM EDT (US)     14 / 32  
It will only heal unfinished buildings to the point they are currently built. It won't "build" the building for you.
Town Center construction sites and Titan Gates have no point to which they are currently built. For those, the hp they currently have are also the % to which they are completed. That is why a completed town center will always have 100% hp, no matter how much attack took place while it was built. The incoming attack delayed its completion, but if it could be completed, then it is in perfect condition.

This also means that for canceled TC construction sites you always get 100% of your money back, even if the TC was temporarily 98% completed and was then razed by enemy troops.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
posted 14 March 2008 04:35 AM EDT (US)     15 / 32  
At the end you say hades has a weak navy. I lol. Hades ships get the increased attack of hades archers and towers. Very few civs get a classical water myth, and with mythic fleet it is not a problem. Hades can take the water no problem if you make it your goal, and work mythic fleet in or out depending on if you know the enemy has water myth.

Out Reach
The guy who writes the erotic fan fiction in Yeebaagoon's signature
posted 14 March 2008 11:05 AM EDT (US)     16 / 32  
Hades' navy is weak because the other two Greeks have a better navy. Hades' navy is weak because it is not as good as Atlantian navy. Hades' navy is weak because it is not as good as Norse navy. Hades' navy is weak because it is not as good as Egyptian navy.

The attack bonus is not enough to overcome the absence of a water myth unit. Without it your opponent has no need to spend the 415 resources to counter water myth thereby saving those resources for something else. On the other hand Hades will often need Heroic Fleet to even stand a chance.

Hades also does not have any improvements other than the standard line upgrades and armory upgrades until Mythic. Most other major gods have access to at least one minor god that boosts navy through an extra technology. Other than Hades, only Ra is without one until Mythic. And Ra's navy is also considered weak by many.

I am not saying that you cannot win water, but it is foolish to say that Hades is not at a decided disadvantage on water.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."
posted 14 March 2008 11:23 AM EDT (US)     17 / 32  
During my ~200 rated 1v1 games on ESO, all the way from 1400 to 1700+ I have yet to experience a single game where there was a significant naval Mythic battle, even less so where the special mythic naval techs would have made a difference (aside from the free water mythic MU which always come to play anyway, but that's not a tech, and ofcourse the upgraded siege ship). When I think of it I can't remember ever seeing a replay out of the hundreds I have watched with the above either.

If Islands or Team Migration would have been included in rated 1v1 games it would most definately have been a different story.

Conclusion: Naval mythic techs doesn't mean shit.

[This message has been edited by Nirwanda (edited 03-14-2008 @ 11:28 AM).]

posted 14 March 2008 01:57 PM EDT (US)     18 / 32  
During my ~200 rated 1v1 games on ESO, all the way from 1400 to 1700+ I have yet to experience a single game where there was a significant naval Mythic battle, even less so where the special mythic naval techs would have made a difference (aside from the free water mythic MU which always come to play anyway, but that's not a tech, and ofcourse the upgraded siege ship). When I think of it I can't remember ever seeing a replay out of the hundreds I have watched with the above either.
Generally agreed, although I have seen expert recs where there are Mythic water battles. However, it's always been when someone wins water in Heroic or even Classical and then the loser sneaks back onto the water later in the game.

Osiris' Kebenit tech confuses me. Arrow ships getting a +200% bonus against arrow ships means that they beat two types of ships. Useful, yes. But considering they can still be countered with Siege Ships it means crap all in a real situation. If the tech gave Siege Ships bonus damage to other Siege Ships it would be more useful because you want Siege Ships in the first place to take down key buildings with their 30 range and would mean you can take out your opponent's Siege Ships without switching ship types.

Oh well.

Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
But you can't take the sky from me...
posted 14 March 2008 07:07 PM EDT (US)     19 / 32  
I've fought crazy naval MU battles...

never mythic age battles obviously...

but mass MU battles, which hades simply cannot keep up with.


For instance,

Isis FH = crush ships and leviathan.
Zeus FH = Scylla
Possy FH = Scylla
Gaia Classical = servants
Odin FH = Kraken


Whereas Atlanteans just spam like crazy and Norse ships are uber strong (especially heimdall arrows + kraken!!!).


Water battles can get out there a bit.
posted 14 March 2008 08:28 PM EDT (US)     20 / 32  
The mainly "massed" water MU is Scylla.
The others are harder to pump out due to favor limitations.

-[Hello..
posted 14 March 2008 08:52 PM EDT (US)     21 / 32  
True. Krakens come out pretty quickly though for a Loki.
posted 14 March 2008 09:00 PM EDT (US)     22 / 32  
I asked Hells in a recent 2v2 where I was facing him (and won...but he said he was playing 10% lol) how Ra could counter Scyllia spam. He said you can't so just try to win land before your opponent by massing Chariots and Siege. Luckily I guessed the right strat in that game before he told me

Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand.
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back.
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.
But you can't take the sky from me...
posted 15 March 2008 03:23 PM EDT (US)     23 / 32  
own Center construction sites and Titan Gates have no point to which they are currently built.
Lol anyone tried restoring a Titan Gate to build faster?

posted 17 March 2008 04:27 AM EDT (US)     24 / 32  
Hades' navy is weak because the other two Greeks have a better navy.
Why would that be when Hades' ships get the archer bonus (which I have not verified) and the other's do not? Possy gets a free water scout and faster archaic buildup thanks to Lure, but Zeus gets no bonus that would be of any help regarding his fleet. I fail to see how Hades' ships should be weaker.
Hades' navy is weak because it is not as good as Atlantian navy.
Atl arrow ships train and move faster, but have lesser range and crumble like dust due to lesser attack and hp. Due to their faster training time you may need to stay under cover of your defensive dock fire until you have accumulated enough ships though.
The attack bonus is not enough to overcome the absence of a water myth unit.
No civ has a decent water myth in classical age, which is where the initial naval combat takes place. If the opponent goes FH, Hades can simply research Heroic Fleet and still beat the water myth. Enemy siege ships would pose the greater problem in this case, but of course Hades can always go FH just the same.
Without it your opponent has no need to spend the 415 resources to counter water myth thereby saving those resources for something else.
But he has to spend the 1300 resources for heroic age if he hopes to get a water myth of his own. While he does, Hades is using his resources to conquer the classical water and therefore gathers more from fishing, which in turn will make it easier for him to follow to heroic age soon afterwards.
Hades also does not have any improvements other than the standard line upgrades and armory upgrades until Mythic. Most other major gods have access to at least one minor god that boosts navy through an extra technology.
Why would you want to choose a subgod (not getting the benefits of the alternate subgod) and pay money for researching a myth navy up when with Hades you can get a built-in navy up that costs no money or time and does not restrict your subgod choice?
Other than Hades, only Ra is without one until Mythic. And Ra's navy is also considered weak by many.
Thor also gets neither a heroic water myth nor a classical or heroic subgod that would boost his navy, and still he is one of the best gods on water. Like Hades his own main god bonuses benefit his navy though.
I am not saying that you cannot win water, but it is foolish to say that Hades is not at a decided disadvantage on water.
Foolish is all the trash that you just unleashed upon us.
During my ~200 rated 1v1 games on ESO, all the way from 1400 to 1700+ I have yet to experience a single game where there was a significant naval Mythic battle, even less so where the special mythic naval techs would have made a difference
Perhaps you are playing outdated vanilla, where sea dominance is decided quickly and often for good early on due to non-shooting docks?

True is that classical/early heroic naval battles are usually greater, because then 100% of the combat is often fought on the sea. In the later ages, you always have some degree of land-based struggle, meaning that both sides will have less units on water. But when the enemy is pounding your TC with oxybeles siege vessels and you do not take some steps to stop them by means of ramming ships, then your chances of winning the game are very dim.

There is even a very common map on which naval combat plays a role pretty much only in mythic age: Watering Hole. Controlling the right lakes and having your siege ships there can easily decide between victory and defeat. Consequently, the opponent will often attempt to wrestle control of the key lake from you. For that, he can either use land-based ranged siege, or ships of his own. The latter have the advantage that afterwards he can deploy siege vessels of his own there, and has an easier time razing your docks.

As for mythic age naval upgrades, I agree that they usually play a minor role, but I like to get Baldr's Arctic Gale when I can spare the favor (i.e. no longer need it for a titan or something). Siege vessels are pretty much the most important ships in mythic, and Arctic Gale makes them highly resistant to the only ships that counter them.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
posted 17 March 2008 10:48 AM EDT (US)     25 / 32  
Foolish is all the trash that you just unleashed upon us.
Its all based on my experience playing Hades.

As far as why Hades' navy is weak, I stand by that his is weakest and it is because he does not get Dionysis which means he has no water upgrades or myth unit. I forgot that Thor had no such water upgrades or myth unit, but his armory makes up for that as well as already having stronger ships for being Norse. Having the ability to get better ships throughh myth techs turns the tide of navy battles. Hades doesn't even have the option.

Vs. Attie, faster training means more ships. More ships means victory in classical more than any other age because everybody has the same ship type.

Lastly, Triremes do not benefit from Hades' increased archer attack bonus.

Confucious says, "Man who jump through screen door likely to strain himself."

[This message has been edited by sdw12umdjc (edited 03-17-2008 @ 11:20 AM).]

posted 17 March 2008 11:14 AM EDT (US)     26 / 32  
Very Nice Guide Though.


"To love Christ -means not to be a hireling, not to look upon a noble life as an enterprise or trade, but to be a true benefactor and to do everything only for the sake of love for God." —St John Chrysostom
"When one returns to the Greek; it is like going into a garden of lilies out of some, narrow and dark house." -Oscar Wilde.
posted 17 March 2008 01:36 PM EDT (US)     27 / 32  
I second that.

"Game over man, game over!"-Aliens
"I'll kill you with my teacup."-Riddik
I'll be what I wanna do."- Futurama
"I may be an idiot but there is one thing I am not sir, and that sir is an idiot."-Family Guy
"This is what we like to call, Mr.Thingy"-The Far Side
posted 20 March 2008 03:56 PM EDT (US)     28 / 32  
I offer my loss (me Thor vs a Hades), as a very nice Hades comeback with a nice combo: tox and lions, plus a sprinkle of petrobolos for buildings

http://aom.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=7431

regards

the Elder
"imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by Anastasoulis (edited 03-20-2008 @ 03:56 PM).]

posted 20 March 2008 06:52 PM EDT (US)     29 / 32  
Great guide, Map bit was good idea
posted 20 March 2008 07:38 PM EDT (US)     30 / 32  
sorry DaP, but I agree with him.

Unless you use pest to its fullest potential, CF and Rest can both overpower it... and even if you do use pest to its fullest, CF can still overpower it.

Hades ships are initially stronger, but he hits that decline as soon as it gets farther into the game.

In a purely classical water fight, he would have a decent advantage, but the second it hits heroic he loses. No water myth units, his arrow ships become a lot more useless since you can't really take down a dock with them... it just sucks for him.

considering a Zeus or Poseidon would most likely just 7:30 the BOOMING hades player (most hades will boom in greek wars) will lose the water match.
posted 28 March 2008 04:55 PM EDT (US)     31 / 32  
Guide of the Month Congratulations sdw12umdjc!

posted 01 April 2008 05:33 AM EDT (US)     32 / 32  
In a purely classical water fight, he would have a decent advantage, but the second it hits heroic he loses. No water myth units, his arrow ships become a lot more useless since you can't really take down a dock with them... it just sucks for him.
Hades' siege ships are not worse than those of the others, and his strong arrow ships make sure that his siege vessels are not countered. In a typical heroic water battle all three ship types play a role. It is not as if arrow ships were no longer important in heroic.

As for water myth, I believe it is overestimated. Even classical arrow ships can beat water MU once the Heroic Fleet upgrade has been researched. Hades still needs to go heroic to counter enemy siege vessels, but when he does he even gets access to heroic fleet ramming ships, which own naval myth hands down.

Also remember that Hades' docks have more hp and attack power. I am not saying that he is op on water or something, but I am not seeing him particularly weak there either.
considering a Zeus or Poseidon would most likely just 7:30 the BOOMING hades player (most hades will boom in greek wars) will lose the water match.
Meaning that booming is not that smart for Hades vs Greek on water. A 4:30 classical with a quick arrow ship start can quickly remove most of the fishing income of the boomer. Of course Hades mst make sure not to be too late with following to heroic age. But part of his arrow ship investition is covered by his better fishing income from dominating the sea in classical age.

Darkness is a state of mind
Valor is the contempt of Death and Pain. (Tacitus)
Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. (Piet Hein)
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