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Topic Subject: Is Hall of Heroes just a bad scenario?
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posted 09-18-07 03:24 PM EDT (US)   
Everybody seems to have trouble with it. The only thing that seems to work consistently is to zoom to the dark elf leader and assassinate them before they become too powerful--which seems to happen in a good 12 turns or so.

I missed the main DE city and ended up nuking the frostlings first. I thought I was ok, but these massive stacks of DE units kept fluttering around the one or two towns I had. It was impossible to raise an army with the poor cash flow I had.

Ultimately, I went for a decapitation strike against the DE leader. He was sitting in his city with about 3 doom drakes, a few incarnates, and some executioners. I ended up sneaking in two gold medaled frostling glowing orbs and took him out, losing one in the process.

I suspect now I could play the map through properly since I know where the leaders are and how to get to them. At the least, I could pin them at their cities based on observations that the AI turtles when you find their leader's town. But that doesn't seem to be the way it should play.

It just seemed like the scenario didn't meld with what I was expecting for it. What I figured would be that I would be slowly digging down into some abandoned stuff, run into dark elves, and then all hell would break loose. What happened instead was a sprint to take out the overly powerful other leaders from an initial compromised position.

I'm on the next scenario, rapidly trying to catch up on experience and items I could have earned before. I've already taken out three leaders and I'm down to the lizards. So far it has played out much easier than the Hall of Heroes. What is going on here?
Replies:
posted 09-18-07 03:35 PM EDT (US)     1 / 49  
Yep. Quite possibly the hardest scenario in-game, depending on who you listen to.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Acolyte-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 09-18-07 04:04 PM EDT (US)     2 / 49  
Is this the light or evil campaign?

Token Irish Gamer!
posted 09-18-07 04:59 PM EDT (US)     3 / 49  
It's the Keepers campaign.
posted 09-18-07 05:08 PM EDT (US)     4 / 49  
Is it a Dwarven Scenario?

I went the Halfling-Lizard-Highman way.

Token Irish Gamer!
posted 09-18-07 09:18 PM EDT (US)     5 / 49  
The hardest is the first scenario of the Cult Campaign.
In the third of dwarves your hero is already semi-uber.
I never care victory condition,except for scenario 2,so I always win dwarves campaign by killing all the leaders.
I think however that Deepmir is more difficult.

Micronazione Impero
posted 09-19-07 02:11 AM EDT (US)     6 / 49  
The first dwarf one (with Deepmir) originally frustrated me, but I figured out the golden rule was to not dig into new areas until I had good forces to defend the new opening, with a rear garrison to stave off anything that comes out of nowhere in the rear.
posted 09-19-07 02:54 AM EDT (US)     7 / 49  
It just seemed like the scenario didn't meld with what I was expecting for it. What I figured would be that I would be slowly digging down into some abandoned stuff, run into dark elves, and then all hell would break loose.
I haven't played the dwarven campaign but AFAIK the obiectiv eof the scenario isn't to defeat all the AI races like on most missions, but to find the Hall of Heroes... so you've just played it in wrong way Of course, the map having such untypical victory condition should be unwinnable in other way, and if it's not, then it's indeed badly made.
posted 09-19-07 11:47 AM EDT (US)     8 / 49  
I haven't played the dwarven campaign but AFAIK the obiectiv eof the scenario isn't to defeat all the AI races like on most missions, but to find the Hall of Heroes... so you've just played it in wrong way Of course, the map having such untypical victory condition should be unwinnable in other way, and if it's not, then it's indeed badly made.
The problem is that you need a consistent pool of money to upgrade a city and then burrow around to find the hall. However, the frostlings and dark elves will pour out for anywhere and everywhere and take anything that isn't bolted down. I would be fine with this if it started when I got near the hall and knew I had to start exploring, but they are sprinting to take everything over from dawn of turn 1. I saw the graphs at the end of the scenario, and the dark elves took off like a rocket in all areas.
posted 09-22-07 00:12 AM EDT (US)     9 / 49  
There isn't any "wrong way" to play a scenario, but a lot of scenarios have special goodies tucked away and/or conditions to win that you might not be aware of. In this case, the "extra goodies" are part of the special victory - when you reach the Hall, you have the chance to meet (and recruit) three Heroes there. Unfortunately, you can't get back out with them, nor can you afford to take the most powerful with you to the next scenario due to the transfer limit, but you should be able to get out with at least one of them.

BTW, there are also special victory conditions for the "Deepmir" and "Supplies" Dwarf scenarios. For the latter, you win if you accumulate 5000 gold (not likely) but for Deepmir, all you need do is capture Delatar - the surface 4-hex in the Southeast. It starts as an independent Dwarf city, and if you thought to bring an Eagle Rider with you it's possible to get there in IIRC 12 turns and buy it.


*spoiler* You can however get those three Heroes from the Hall to fight for you early on in the game, if you have the right magic. Makes the map a whole lot easier.

[This message has been edited by ChowGuy (edited 09-22-2007 @ 00:21 AM).]

posted 09-22-07 02:24 PM EDT (US)     10 / 49  
Are you talking about that neat spell which comes to my mind? I somehow didn't know yet it can get the independent heroes from around the map, though I found (while playing Noble Treachery - second Dark Elven mission) out it can give you dead heroes if there aren't any other avaible on the map. Very interesting

Btw. it's great to see you posting on Aow1 forum Chow Guy! Is it just an episode or will you hopefully be more active in the coming future?
posted 09-22-07 09:00 PM EDT (US)     11 / 49  
Fair warning, though: all along the river on Deepmir's surface, there are red dragons set on 'Guard Area.' They are NOT nice.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Acolyte-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 09-23-07 02:34 AM EDT (US)     12 / 49  
Call Hero is the spell. It's level 3 Air.

-Heir to Beleriand, Heir to the Silmaril, Chosen of Illuvatar-

GM of the Glory of the Past Middle Earth Roleplay Thread

Creator of the New Keepers Campaign
posted 09-23-07 04:40 AM EDT (US)     13 / 49  
I only said it was possible to reach Delatar by air, not that it was easy But if you've beaten the campaign the normal way a couple times, it can be an interesting challenge to see how else you can do it, and in the minimum possible time.
posted 09-23-07 04:13 PM EDT (US)     14 / 49  
I forget how I did it - I think it did use Great Eagles - but half of them got eaten by Red Dragons along the way.

-Heir to Beleriand, Heir to the Silmaril, Chosen of Illuvatar-

GM of the Glory of the Past Middle Earth Roleplay Thread

Creator of the New Keepers Campaign
posted 01-06-08 10:02 AM EDT (US)     15 / 49  
Sorry for the gravediging, but I was going to make a topic to ask for help in Hall of Heroes, but then I found this topic and it seemed more apropriate to post here, so here it goes:

When I began playing, I thought my objective was to find that Hall of Heroes. Sure, I ran into some Dark Elves, but I was too busy exploring the underground and taking some of their cities. And then they began fighting with me. For real. With HUGE stacks. And then they got even BIGGER stacks. And deadiler. Stacks with Karaghs and Orc Warlords and Spider Queens and even a all-Big Betlee stack came near of my cities at one point. I then decided to defeat these annoying Dark Elves and their Orcish and Goblin-ish pals. I took some cities, but they took them back or took mines and such. I had to get Myself and my hero to deal with them, but they don't stop coming at me. I've seen the leader once and took his city with a stack once I found his troops going away, but I no troops to atack him, so he ran away somewhere. There's someway to win this scenario or it's truly impossible?
posted 01-06-08 10:06 PM EDT (US)     16 / 49  
The intended way to victory is to find and take the Hall of Heroes (a 1-hex dwarven city, inaccessible except through a lengthy underground maze.) Unfortunately, your starting conditions are very poor compared to those of your enemies, and chances are good you'll come across the Dark Elves or Frostlings during your travels. It is also possible to win by killing both leaders.

Ya, the scenario sucks.

-/X\(++)/X\-L.E.D. Acolyte-/X\(++)/X\-
posted 01-06-08 10:18 PM EDT (US)     17 / 49  
Aye, big agreement there. I was recently playing the AoW Keepers Campaign on Hard difficulty again, and I've had the near exact same problems described by AoW1H players. The DarkElf and Frostlings stop at NOTHING to get those few cities you have. If you haven't got Town Gate, I don't know how long I could have survived. You just can't fend off the AI attacks AND hope to do any successful exploring, not without losing your sources of income and eventually your main army. It's near impossible for me, so I've given it a rest for now, though I do hate challenges that don't present a solution decent enough to match the fun of the level. It was very fustrating.

Glad I'm not the only one to have experienced this.
posted 01-07-08 01:23 AM EDT (US)     18 / 49  
After that post and going out with my family to eat outside, I've returned and resumed my playing of Hall of Heroes.

I did well. I took more cities from the Dark Elves and then sent the leader stack to the surface, where I easily took some badly-protected Frostling cities in the Southwest, even a 4-hex one. Now, I am hunting for the Dark Elf leader so I can finish him off and then hunt for the Hall.
posted 01-07-08 02:42 AM EDT (US)     19 / 49  
Haha, wonderful what a good break and some side-events can do for a gamer! Hope you give that level a good run!
posted 01-07-08 10:50 AM EDT (US)     20 / 49  
I've found the Dark Elf leader in the surface, in the Southeast, near to the 4-hex Frostling city. I'm going to prepare my stacks and destroy him personally.

I've been going through these surface Dark Elf towns easily, and the Frostlings are also just as weak. Meanwhile, I'm still searching for the Hall of Heroes somewhere, since I want more heroes (just got myself and Bandir the Fiery). This Hall of Heroes MUST be somewhere!
posted 01-07-08 12:14 PM EDT (US)     21 / 49  
It's a small city in the depths somewhere. Take it and you win instantly, I think.

I've never played the Dwarven way of the Keepers Campaign, but I intend to now! Thanks, fellas!

Token Irish Gamer!
posted 01-07-08 05:09 PM EDT (US)     22 / 49  
I've just beat it a few hours ago. Found it in the northern underground, near a bridge with some Karaghs. The Dark Elf Leader dissapeared and they got a new wave, since I was too lazy to get them off my land. Now onwards to Safe Land!

When, what a HARD map!
posted 01-08-08 10:35 PM EDT (US)     23 / 49  
XD Be wary of what comes next mate. It only gets more fun and challenging! ;D
posted 01-09-08 10:53 AM EDT (US)     24 / 49  
Saw that some of you had a hard time beating this scenario. Well me too..at the beginning.

If you just get to Deepmir you just need a few troops (best if you got at least 2 giants with you from the scenario before). Then itīs just to take one of the builders guild and rebuild Deepmir. And yes, by the time you do this you will have company with some Karaghīs wich is sent one by one (stupid way to waste money). Sure Karagh is a great unit but when they come alone, you can easily kill them. You just need a stack of 8-16 archers and some giants to kill off the Karaghs (even in Fast battle) and they wonīt have space enough to run beside as the space in the underground is limited.

After a while there will show up more of the dark elven forces but then itīs just to push them back with the troops youīve made as you defended you homes of the Karaghīs.

I was not able to beat the scenario at first try and it took a while for me but the AI never really challanged me.

Another scenario i think is hard to beat is when you play orcs and faces Bormac Orcbane. But still, i beat him too.

No need for unnecessary citerias.-Balak 20/03.08

Well.. that was a unnecessary citeria
posted 01-10-08 10:47 PM EDT (US)     25 / 49  
^_^

Hall of Heroes = Not same mission with Deepmir

;D
posted 01-11-08 11:13 AM EDT (US)     26 / 49  
Not??

Well got to see if itīs really true. I completed the campaign in every way there is with the hardest level on but it is on the other computer. Got to get me an upload as i seems to have forgotten things.

But still, i made it somehow. Sorry but i canīt tell you how.

Edit: Now iīve played it and beated it.

Settings on hard.

I donīt really see how Dark Elves can become a problem. Sure if you leave them alone they will overcrowd you with their massive hordes but then itīs your own fault.
In my game i killed all of their armies within about 15 days. And after migrating their cities i advanced my forces to the surface and killed off the Frostling on day 40. It couldīnt be easier.
Maybe an map a little bit too easy but still not an bad map at all. The real challange is to find the Hall of Heroes. Took me an hour an a half to do that. Anyway i thougth it was fun searching in the depths for it and finnaly i found it.

But still i donīt really know how the mapmaker thougth when he made this map. As you would know if you ever come to the Hall of Heroes you can recruit 3 heroes and one of these is Bormac Orcbane. The thing is when youīve completed the map you go forward to the next map and if you want it, you take Bormac with you. But... at the same time you use Bormac, the Cult faces him in their campaign wich is in the other side of the Blessed Continent. Do they clone him or how is he in to areas at the same time? This is quite a bad miss of the Mapmaker.

No need for unnecessary citerias.-Balak 20/03.08

Well.. that was a unnecessary citeria

[This message has been edited by BalakofThorn (edited 01-11-2008 @ 05:16 PM).]

posted 01-12-08 09:16 AM EDT (US)     27 / 49  
XD You must have done a downright rush to the DarkElf lair then, no camping eh?
posted 01-12-08 11:27 AM EDT (US)     28 / 49  
Of course. I ran towards them as soon as the game started, leaving only a few archers to defend the starting city against the frostlings wich apparently can teleport themselves rigth next to the city. Only using archers and a wood wall will keep the city safe.

After that it was not hard to kill of the frostlings.

No need for unnecessary citerias.-Balak 20/03.08

Well.. that was a unnecessary citeria
posted 01-12-08 08:26 PM EDT (US)     29 / 49  
Definitely a good plan. I've tried to lately take on the campaign by aiming towards the goal of taking down every stronghold and unit first before taking out the leader, however, that tactic has cost me my doom many times over.

Maybe time to just go back to rushing the enemy as soon as possible...
posted 01-13-08 04:24 AM EDT (US)     30 / 49  
Yes itīs a great tactic but not so fun. So when i played the second time i let the Frostlings be so i would have some challange.

Anyway, in the first post, Rocko describes the DE army and tells of 3 Doom Drakes. What the hell is that?

No need for unnecessary citerias.-Balak 20/03.08

Well.. that was a unnecessary citeria
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