I think it's quite alright. Although, the scenario design forum is usually used for this, it doesn't get as much attention as this one anyway..

Things I've noticed: In the previous version(I've only played Marinus in the latest one so far), Wortan and Kandor didn't have a lot of instructions, and I found myself confused and unsure what to do. Ran into several really powerful area guards without warning as well.

Marinus' hero Cyna doesn't have a description.

That's all that comes to mind atm.

Hi Sausud

Maybe they will move this thread to the Scenario Design folder.
I have a mapmaker thread there too and I thing Swolte will move this thread too to this position. You had the same idea but maybe you shoul make this thread a little more global - I think you should use it not only for one map.
Use it for all things (at this time maps) you want to do in HG.
Then the people will remember and you donīt have to check for to much different threads of yours.
And you donīt need to give hints again and again.

After day 98, I was at the elven docks and had done reasonably well in defending Marinus' home. I accidentally razed the watchtower outside Marinus city, and when I went to reload the game, it wouldn't load anymore.

If I load it from another game file(not the menu screen), I get a weird glitchy 'diplomacy' screen with every wizard's name replaced by '######'.
My last save file is over 10 turns earlier, and I probably won't be able to reproduce this glitch. As it's not something I've seen or even heard of before, it could very well be a problem with my computer, and no fault of the map itself.

Strange thing! This never happened at my place.

One thing that I noticed while designing the map was that I frequently received 'Integer Overflow' errors. I dont know what that means.

ABout the spellings and grammar part u said in the review, I am sorry because I am not that good at english. And checking so many dialogs for spelling mistakes and grammar is a tiresome job. Yawn!

About Wortan and Kandor, I had designed the map initially for Marinus only. Later on I decided to add story for Wortan and Kandor. Since I was running into Integer Overflow errors, I thought that this might be due to many units on the map so I decided to provide them with a small part.

In my next map: The Lands of Gornia, I will make sure they get a Lion's share in the story. The items that these individual players carry is of importance in the next map.
Also Monastary Association will make a comeback. I shall add another guild like say a fighter's guild to the map. This map will be more interactive than the earlier one and I also plan to make a movie for it.

Can people spare me a week's time to correct most of the bugs? I have a very tight schedule right now and I have spotted some bugs in the map that I need to correct. The updated map still needs to be debugged. I was playtesting it and found the problem in the teleport event in the underground where the player gets the Titan parts. People should please wait for a while before downloading my map since after playing almost 60% map, when the teleporter doesnt work, you feel quite frustrated (this has happened to me 2-3 times while playing my own map)

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I'm not sure what those mean either. I just ignore 'em.

As for my review, I was probably a little harsh with the scoring and such. In my defense, AOW2H's review system is somewhat confusing and difficult to understand.
The written part was more to give people an idea of what to expect. If I thought the spelling errors were a huge problem, I would've said something earlier.

Any suggestions on how to improve the system -- or heck, just tell us what you find confusing or don't like -- would be greatly appreciated. It's all in the details, as they say, so be as detailed as possible.

But then I can't use it as a convenient excuse for my own lack of reviewing ability..

Actually, I remember being somewhat confused by the description of 'playability'. I can't come up with anything really specific at the moment, just that the system isn't very intuitive to me, personally.
I guess I'll read it over again and see if anything else comes to mind.

Hehe. Thanks; I'll look the other way when you do a review.

Just for you though.

Hey all!

thanks for the comments.I think the Rpg system hasn't struck a chord with the people. Only such a few comments? I thought ppl would flood me with queries regarding the map but they didn't. This means that either ppl have fully understood my map or haven't understood anything at all. I am more welcome to critiques. So plzz post any queries/suggestions u might be having for my map.

[This message has been edited by sausud (edited 09-30-2006 @ 08:39 AM).]

Hi Sausud,

I appreciate the effort and creativity you've put into this scenario, and it has provided many hours of (somewhat frustrating) entertainment, although I would really prefer to play a good strategy game in which my freedom of action is not so constrained.

I have a question. I know the SOL key is in Tarnia, and I assume the RO key is guarded by the group in the evil woods. Can you tell me where the Titan key is?

Thanks,

SierraT

u have to go to a teleporter in goblinia.after defeating the guards, u will teleport to an underground location. there u will find the main Titan key.

One thing I noticed while playing the updated version was that it did not solve the teleportation problem to the void.

[This message has been edited by sausud (edited 10-01-2006 @ 00:38 AM).]

Hi sasud!

I played a bunch of turns on this map (the updated version) a few days ago, and made a buglist! So here it comes :

* There are no instructions where to put the .bik file (or I missed them).
* When leaving the shire, there's a message that says you should go to a rogue shack and hire units. Problem is, there is no rogue shack in sight.
* I got the message about the Dark Rod item without finding it.
* When you free some prisoners in the underground, you get a message with a lizard portrait, but the only prisoner that joins you is a herbalist... Even if this is not a bug, it would be nice to get some more units here, maybe a few low level lizards.
* There's a naga + some critters guarding a bridge, and when you kill them a message about hermie pops up. But this message doesn't always pop up for some reason. I fought this battle twice and got the message only once. I was thinking the problem might be that the message is set to trigger when a certain unit dies, and that when you dominate or control this unit in some other way the message never shows.

That's it. The map is nice, I like the RPG approach. The problem I find is that you have to do the save/load thing a bit too often. There are so many events that you can't do anything about, and when for example a pack of demons spawn next to you there's nothing you can do but go back a few turns and try again.

[This message has been edited by Magog (edited 10-02-2006 @ 12:46 PM).]

1) You have to put the .bik file in the movies folder. I have mentioned it in the readme file.
2)Just north-west of shire, when u cross the bridge where satyr is standing, there is a rouge's shack.
3) The Dark rod item description is enebled for marinus, kandor and wortan. so if either of the players pick it up, all get the message.
4) Earlier I had placed lizard poisoner + Herabalist there but I changed my decision & put only the herbalist. The dialog I had written for lizzie. so I forgot to change it.
5) Actually the nagas guarding the bridge are added for giving you more no of units. you can dominate snakes there by using control animal option. The only challenge is the naga with double strike. Hermie's dialog triggers when you are in +2 radius of the Woodwyrm.

I know the save and load thing is very frustrating. Even the recruitable players are very few. So I reccommend ppl to fight manual battles and upgrade the regular units alongwith heroes. Pamper them with stats incrementing spells. The more the powerful army you build, the less u will be scared to face the enemy.

I have found many bugs in wortan and Kandor's gameplay. I have almost completed correcting them and will post the new update soon.

[This message has been edited by sausud (edited 10-02-2006 @ 03:48 PM).]

Ok, I got all the keys and titan parts, and the titans razed the second power source, and now there is an enormously strong group guarding the other side of the teleporter--much too strong for any single group I have.
There was a message about guards being teleported away, but this did not happen. You can imagine how disappointed I am that I can't complete the scenario after playing for 350 turns!

Hey I'm really very sorry for that bug. I can Explain:

I made two copies of TOMM. One for playtesting with different changes and the other for safekeeping w/o changes in case if the map corrupted. Unfortunately, I mistakenly deleted the one in which I made changes. Even in the updated version the teleporter problem hasn't been solved.

I know this is quite frustrating, but imagine my frustration because I made some 40+ odd changes only to find I deleted the corrected version by mistake! So again I'm making changes and will post an update soon.

I can imagine your frustration because after playing so many rounds, if the teleporter and the guards teleportation doesnt work, you just feel like quitting the game.
You have completed almost 70% of the game. But the main climax is just ahead after you enter the void.

I would suggest you one thing if you download my updated version. Play the map once more if you have time (this thing is very unlikely to happen sadly!)I have made a few important changes and you will not regret playing it once more.

I'll post on the forums as soon as I upload my update.

AND sorry once again. I didn't see this bug coming earlier.

[This message has been edited by sausud (edited 10-04-2006 @ 12:24 PM).]

Which city did you like in this map?

I liked Khanabad bcoz of the variety in structures and the desert terrain.

I quite like the area around Orlord and Golatha. It's very dark.

I've posted the update oof the map. it solves the teleporter problem. some more additional changes have also been made.

Is the forum dead? no one's posting anything.

The events with Sara in elven territory are not in the right turn, isnt it ? On the brigde to the port we see the fire storm and land turns into lava, with the sorrow of Marcus to Sara but later near the magic vault, there's a conversation between Sara and Marcus. She is dead and her soul appears in front of Marcus or events' order is not right ?

It's actually a bug. I forgot to delete the dialog. thanks for reporting it.

i had earlier planned to create some love stuff between Sara and Marcus. But the idea didn't hit off well. So I had to scrap it off a bit. Perheaps I will use the concept in " Lands of Gornia", my next map in Tales of Matunmura series.

You should ban mastery spells! Since the three wizards are all sphere specialists, there's surely mastery spell like Water, Earth or Death (depend on wizard you play). Otherwise, the game would be much easier 'cause you can see most of the map with that spell. However, without mastery spell, you have no mean to summon wyrms. With only three cities (1st halfling, backup this one become outpost when Wortan cast plague, and dwarven), and about three nodes (not your sphere), and the limit of building in each city, you can not have a stack of wyrms without having serious negative mana income, while gold income is just around more than 50. Ggood thing to have converter otherwise it's very hard, even impossible to win.

Edit: There's no event after killing Bromoth, Is it because I dominated him then disbanted ?

[This message has been edited by naeco (edited 10-21-2006 @ 01:16 AM).]

I tried banning some spells by converting them to 'cosmos' category but still they showed up in the game. I don't know any other method to do so.

About the Wyrms stuff, you can still summon 2-3 wyrms to assist you in battle with the amount of resources you have.

About the nodes, there's always the 'Alter Node' spell to increment mana for you.

How did you dominate him? Don't tell me you still have Popo (Satyr in the shire) alive. If yes then congrats bcoz I cannot keep him up alive for such a long time. You might have had dominated a helluva lot of creatures.

About the Bromboth, There's nothing special when you kill him. Some of the goblins invading marinus are triggered to stop spawning after killing Bromboth. Don't worry about that.

Btw, did you join the Monastary Association (MA)? Their wands provide a lot of advantage. Though the fees are high (400 Gold. The Bishop will ask u to join MA in Lamington only if you have the amount >= 400), you will have certain advantages in the map.

Thanks. Bye!

Yeah, I did join that Association. At the time i'm in Lamington, I have about more than 1000 so 400 is not much of a problem, the magic relay is captured since the first turns. I don't understand much about these spells much but I rather ask you later when I finish the aventure

About the dominate thing, you forgot that Blind summon can turn Chao Lords, Infernal Beholder to be ours Wyrms are still my good units but having a lord or two with Infernal Beholder to dominate Dread Reaper is funnier

I would suggest adding few more nodes, ban thoses spells like Blind summon, and Mastery spells. It still makes the game hard but not impossible to win.

As for lv3 and lv4 of water specialist, Wyrms are much stronger than Elemental, upkeep cost me just 3mana more for each. I'm not good at math but it saves me a lot for casting a wyrm than two Elemental

Give the map some more updates indeed. Your map is very replayable. I will surely play it more times in the future.

Edit: Another point, do the events in your map require certain heroes, and certain items to be activated ? Because in the mid-game, I have more than one strong stack to move around faster.

Bugs:

1. Krypton's ring is in the weapon slot, not in accessory slot. Same thing happened to Grimolus ring (+2 res, Swallow hole)
2. Teleport portal is still ruined after Asholo's death.

[This message has been edited by naeco (edited 10-21-2006 @ 01:19 PM).]

Seriously these spells need to be disabled. I didn't have any idea at first as to what the bind summon thing did. I never cast that spell.

About the nodes, Ok if u feel so. what's the harm in adding 2-3 more nodes.

About the items, you will require OD, RO and SOL keys and raze two powernodes of Raznipul (one is in Orlord dungeons, other is in nagalands. U will have access to this powernode afterwards when you collect all the Titan parts.) Just follow the instructions and everything will run fine.

About the Wyrms: One thing that I like about the Wyrms is that they have lightning strike and lightning immunity. That makes them very effective against any enemy w/o lightning immunity.

About the updates, U plzz keep on posting here and I will update the map accordingly.

BUGS: 1) Krypton's ring is not a bug. Read his history.
2)Asholo has cast a damned spell that affects the Portal for eternity. Sry! Asholo is really a bad devil. Did you kill her as marinus asked for?

Yeah, I did killed Asholo and all the goblins in Goblinia and razed their home. The spell and berserkers' attacks should be stopped but it does continue. As long as I understand, the forces of the Demon consist of Demon units such as Lord, Brain, and Chao Lord, Infernal Beholder; forces of Asholo are formed by goblins and orcs, some black dragons, bone dragons, basiliks, and tree hulks. AND demon can not reach Martinus's cap. If i'm right about this, the event to disable attack from Asholo after his death does not work, and the teleporter is not rebuildable. In fact, attack from Asholo must have stopped since Bromoth is killed. Pestilence cloud should be desactived too after Asholo's death.

I read Krypton's profile, there's nothing go against his story if we put the ring at the right place.

Bug: The event in which Cynia talk about the dragons in south-west of Tigran territory. You placed it near the coast (to the west of the Dragon lair), the direction where we come from is north east, or east of the dragon lair. It's not actually a bug but it does not make sense

You should not put Dire Fungus into berserkers or raiders stack. With only 4MP, those indies are harmless.

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You definitely need to add more nodes if you expect people to raze nodes elsewhere. Nothing worse than trying to play a map without sufficient mana, then being told by the mapmaker to raze power nodes...

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The powernodes that Sausud mentionned in his map is actually not magic node but gold mine I've seen around the map the number of nodes that can be captured in the first 20 turns is more than 5 and 3 of which can be in ruin if player is not strong enough to fight against lv4 raiders and berserkers.

@Sausud: My game on your map is over I went through the teleport in Goblinia, that's OK. But then; with 3 keys, my stack went through the teleport after picking up the Titan key. I did not know that we can beat the heroes in 6 teleports around to get the best weapons. So I went back to get them because they are not teleportable But unfortunately that teleport seems to work only once, and you did not notice players as at the first teleport in Goblinia. Now I'm not able to go back there, replay at once the game after more than 250 turns is just not possible (at the moment). I'll wait for the update maybe replay it after a while.

Oh, yes, I for got to try dropping the Titan key back to its place and pick it up again. Maybe it will work ?

I will try it later at home

It does not work ! I'm disappointed ! My black dragon and my chaolords will go on vacantion because of this teleportation thing

Ah, another thing Don't place tiles on the map border!

[This message has been edited by naeco (edited 10-22-2006 @ 06:23 PM).]

You should not set the item in the Ancient Ruin near Martinus's city with Magic Relay ability. Player can abuse that ability to summon a lurker to the dwarven city before the cleric can open the path between.

A question, what's about the girls underground with the Yeti (place where a lot of spider web is placed)? And some ghost in the dead end of the corridor where bromoth hides ? they are just parts of the story, nothing concerns game play ?

In the city of Cordian, you should give player a message that they have to chanlenge the heroes around to win the greatest weapons of the Titan. In my game, I rarely fight guards if they are the same alignment as mine. Even dragonian and nomads city, I did not conquer (kind of respect game story).

Putting some magic catalyst around does not make sense if you dont give some reason for this. Besides, this can be abused, before an important battle, player can capture several magic catalyst to have more CP. Five MC give the wizard 250 CP plus 90CP (lv5 + casting chamber+magic specialist from the item). This is too much !! Remove them or set some strong guards there is better than giving out for free

When Marcus learn the teleportation spell (Monastery Association), you should teleport the ChaoLord to an unreachable place (a tile surrounded by shadow void for exemple). This avoid player come back to the Chaolord and try to cast bind summoned. Such unit can play an important part in game, especially at that state of the game.

In dwarven kingdom where Marcus learn another level of magic spell, I don't see any exemple like the previous ones (like freezing water, teleportation, razing...). And for each spell, you mention that they can be used only once. How ? In battle or in in the world (global)? Player can cast that spell at any moment or at a specified moment ?

The conversation with Tara (girl in the water fall, near elven southern port) does not go well with the one with Grumpy (?, I dont remember well his name, a dwarf in elven land). She asks Marcus to tell that guy to come if he meets him, but when Marcus meets that guy, the conversation is just how this dwarf is crazy about Tara. Nothing mention that he should go to waterfall to meet Tara.

The resurrect event. The message appear when Marcus dies that he can be resurrected only once, but I see in the editor that it's set to always. May I suggest you can either leave it as always and change the message or set it to once and if Marcus dies, players will miss some events because he's not there anymore. The 2nd is more complicated but sounds better and warns players to take good care of Marcus.

Can you give the backup city Forcefield ? Being very limit in number of ressources, it's very frustrating when being cast Plague upon one of the cities. In my game Wortan keep casting that spell until my city becomes an outpost with almost zero inhabitant. But on the second time, when city gains back its population, he does not cast that spell anymore, and i'm relieved

Personal thought: I don't like moving around the recruitment sites you placed as living places for inhabitants and find nothing in there (deserted), although some do have units to recruit. It wastes a lot of time (Movement point). There are structure tiles for designs in 1.4 patch, and I see that you did use them, why don't you use for all but put some empty house ?

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You did not follow my advice as I had mentioned earlier. When you enter Dorwin, the message you get is to search the tree of Justice as told by Matunmura. The tree is actually a recruitment site (Near the Dwarven city). When you step on it, it tells you about the Titan Parts and their guards. Though the teleporter in Goblinia, when you enter cordin's lands, he offers you help to raze 2nd powernode (when you pick up one of the Titan Parts.) Okay. Now you defeat all the heroes at the teleporters and capture all Titan parts (That will make Marcus a superhero) After that, you proceed to the teleporter guarded by the archons. they will teleport automatically to some other location. [bold]NOW[/bold] you proceed to the Teleporter. You have to have ALL THE TITAN PARTS+ 3KEYS+ TITAN KEY. Pickup the Titan Key and Lo behold u are teleported to some chamber.

Q{My game on your map is over I went through the teleport in Goblinia, that's OK. But then; with 3 keys, my stack went through the teleport after picking up the Titan key. I did not know that we can beat the heroes in 6 teleports around to get the best weapons. So I went back to get them because they are not teleportable But unfortunately that teleport seems to work only once, and you did not notice players as at the first teleport in Goblinia. Now I'm not able to go back there, replay at once the game after more than 250 turns is just not possible (at the moment). I'll wait for the update maybe replay it after a while.My game on your map is over I went through the teleport in Goblinia, that's OK. But then; with 3 keys, my stack went through the teleport after picking up the Titan key. I did not know that we can beat the heroes in 6 teleports around to get the best weapons. So I went back to get them because they are not teleportable But unfortunately that teleport seems to work only once, and you did not notice players as at the first teleport in Goblinia. Now I'm not able to go back there, replay at once the game after more than 250 turns is just not possible (at the moment). I'll wait for the update maybe replay it after a while.

Q] Why did I set the teleporter to teleport once?
Ans:Bcoz, I knew ppl would dominate lotsa units so that makes the game quite easier. SO i did this cruelty. It takes away the fun and mutual bonding that you develop with limited number of units to play. This is RPG. I have experienced the frustration that u have written here & I did the same as u did.
[bold]One thing that I would like you to know is the map becomes more interesting after you enter the void. You will face Anzara and Raznipul and don't forget the Puzzle Citadel where you will meet MIR: the ancient and lastly in the final battle against Raznipul's ganeral, you will get a surprise.
Hope you play the map again. And one thing: please read all the dialogs since they may be important.[/bold]

FEW GOLDEN WORDS: Please save the map from time to time (not as autosave.asg) you will not face the problem that you have right now.

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Can you specifically point out as to where? I honestly dont remember.

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I will see to that this problem is taken care of.

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The girls underground with the yeti are actually a part of beauty peagent where a yeti is the judge. Organisers: spiders queens. Purpose: add some fun to the map. Not really a part of the story. UNdead near bromboth are just to make the dungeons feel like dungeons. Did you capture a relic named Spider's curse in orlord dungeons? Do not pick it up, otherwise u will get a rude surprise.

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When you meet the tree of Justice in dorwin, you are instructed so. about the cities, try capturing any city on the surface and see what happens.

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To increment research, I had done so. BUT since it can be disadvantageous, I will remove them.

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I am sorry for this. I had completely overlooked this possibility. I will do so. thanks!

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In the previous version, Marcus learns a summon spell in MA in dorwin. But since the demons are hot in his pursuit, he does not get to cast it.
The change in updated one: Summon spell replaced by a storm spell. you will cast it when u r in the void.
One thing that u have to understand is that these are all events that are triggered at specific place. The AOW:SM editor is not that flexible to allow a script for auto spell casting so this MA thing is planned set of events different from conventional battle/global spell casting.

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It's something like in the movies u see this guy is actually crazy about a girl and this girl doesn't know it and she needs some favor from him.
Q} Why Marcus doesn't tell grumpy about tara needing him at the waterfall?
ANS: Maybe he is jealous.

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This one is complex. Even though marcus ressurction[RE] is set to always, he will resurrct only one. Why? bcoz when a unit dies in the game, it loses it's UNIT ID and can be RE once since the event knows and matches with its previous ID that is mentioned in it. When the unit dies a second time, it is assigned a new ID. The new id now becomes it's default ID which is not mentioned in the event. So it triggers the RE event only once even if set to always. SO is the message given. PS: Marcus is not compulosry for any event other than the teleportation from marinus to Shire when game starts.

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Wortan makes his presence being felt by casting the uncanny spells. I will see tht forcefield is on. Wortan is very frustrating.

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well, these recruitement sites make the map look nice and add some variations to it.

You should give Martinus the Conqueror skill as starting skill so that Peace maker will not be research to earn the morale between dominated units and leaders. Give Wortan arnachist will make more sense to his position and give player playing as Wortan more chanlenge (Berserkers and Raiders will skip Wortan if he is Peace keeper and already Death Specialist).

On the second play, I researched Peace keeper not Conqueror and my armies are very cheerful together

Yeah, give Kantor Peace keeper

[This message has been edited by naeco (edited 10-26-2006 @ 07:19 PM).]

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You know what, I hadn't given this a serious thought. That's why I was wondering why the berserkers kept on skipping attacking my units when playing as wortan. I will see that it is taken care of alongwith the rest of the wizards skills. Roger that Sir!

Now I say Affirmitive! Is there anyone on the forums named so?

Hey, I don't know very well about sand worm because I've never had the big sand worm in my team. It was you who set its HP to 0 in the next turn after defeating the enemy or something wrong with the unit ? I realized its HP at 0 when new turn began and it's gone when I move the stack.

IMO, the sand worm is not necessary because at that time you must have strong enough to crush any strong stack of the demon. There's only a greater demon makes a difference in the last battle but holy strike can do great work on him. I used a stack of Angel to defeat all of them. With holy strike and holy champion, an angel can hit around 15-20HP even more each strike.

Yeah, on the second play, I did not used wyrm but angel. I learned it from Kantor

And this, you give too much powerful items to heroes.

That's very evil of you naeco. You are misusing the nature's gifts.

Ya I know the final battle is exciting. but it would have been more exciting when say 20 of their level4 units dealing with 14-15 of your units in the final battle. I tried placing them very close to each other with both assigned guard abilities but still it didn't work. So I had to create two separate units. I know the items are a bit overrated. I will decrease some abilities to bring them back to normal.

The Sandworms creating quite a bit of problems. It usually dissappears when I finish off the demons. It displays 0 bcoz it has got 100 life which is not possible to dispaly in the info. Only the greater demon is making difference for you is because you have created a very big army there. I think I will make the gameplay more tough by razing automatically all powernodes belonging to you when you enter the puzzle citadel. This will ensure that you dont summon excess of any creatures. How about me setting all the wizards to enemies? That would be fantastic.

1000's up for my map. Celebrations!

Hi Sausud

By reading all the fantastic reviews on your map, and by going through this thread, I can see that I just HAVE to try this map (I've just downloaded it)

However, judging from the thread I understand that you are about to make some small changes/fixes. So I wonder if the changes are something that will raise the playability a lot (and I therefore should wait for the next version) or if it's just minor changes which makes me able to go right ahead and play now?

Anyway - I'm really looking forward to give the map a try

Cheers
SmellySock

Well, the changes that I am making are minor like-
1) Disable some spells.
2) change wizard abilities.
3) Add some more minor changes.

You may download the map and play it. I am waiting for some more bug reports so that I can take care of many bugs once. thanks for downloading my map.