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Topic Subject: The Making Of Wizard's Folly
posted 05-07-08 06:58 AM EDT (US)   
Introduction

Well I doubt that this gets as hilarious as Needles' making of! Loled at work, and got some strange looks from my co-workers and visitors. Oh well, it is a quiet day here so I thought I'd start explaining how the map Wizard's Folly came to being.

Usually when I start a new scenario, I start with selecting the XL map. Strange? Maybe, but I like to play huge maps so the XL option is a welcome addition.

For this map I wanted three layers which form a whole land. Thought I would be original while I haven't seen these sort of maps before. Doubting I'd be original, I await knowledge of the community about the excistence of such maps.

Chapter One: The Making Of

As said, I visualised this grand map with many forests and other scenery. As always, when I start the map I realise only then that the environment has to be created by scratch, which in this huge map, means many, many hours of scenery/landscape building. While I am at work at the moment, I don't have my notes with me, with all the hours spent on them, but will add them when I get home from work. I will make pictures of my notes so that you can see I can also understand, and write, my own version of Cantonese.

And so many hours populating the map begins. Please note, that I still haven't devised any of the wizards nor story, etc. at this point. When the map is largely finished, not detailed yet but the contours are visible, I start on planting the various wizards on their starting locations.

For this map I wanted to add the full 8 wizards. With the three layers I could spread them evenly out so that they wouldn't come into contact with each other until turn 30ish, which gave time to build up their strength. Other than Celederion, I wanted to add some immersion enhancing events. Simple things like small messages which play no active part in the game but are just there as eye- and immersion-candy. This meant a lot of scripting.
Another thing about my maps are the little scenery towns. For this map I wanted to add pop-up messages (no commercials) with a little story about the village when players entered it. Although this meant even more scripting, I am quite pleased with it if I say so myself.

While I really hate the mastery spell (and the "bug" about sphere control after conquering) I refuse to place any mana nodes. This always brings mixed reactions from the community though.

When the map was almost done, the three areas were populated, I started on the heroes. I re-used my old Library of heroes, removing the different races and adding new heroes for the new races. To justify for this blatent unoriginal behaviour (and maybe a bit laziness) I devised a background story that the map was a follow-up to Celederion.

I will continue this rather long rant later when I get home from work, and add some pictures of my Cantonese verbs.

EDIT MODE due to not being allowed to post again back-to-back of this post:


Well due to some divine RL interference, I didn't have time to continue yesterday returning from work. I am there again. Work. Well, being AT work that is you really cannot call what I do work.

Hopefully I can post the pictures of the Cantonese verbs when I get home again (the dead batteries from my camera should be resurrected by then) as well as the time span the scenario was made in, which I noted while making it. In the meantime I will tell some more about the general planning of making my scenarios.

Like I said before, I really don't think about wizards, background, locations and eye-candy until the map is contoured. It's the same as me writing poems, I start with a first sentence and take it from there, without a plan of any kind.

So the map is contoured. After that it's deciding how many and what wizards will participate in the scenario. As said earlier, I decided on 8. 3 on the surface, 3 on the underground and 2 on the shadow world. Scribbling my Cantonese verbs, I generally outline the starting structures in the capitals. Then place them. In this scenario, I decided to add custom diplomacy messages and background. I plan to do that in future scenarios I make.

After placing all the wizards, I start populating their starting positions, again taking notes on how many ruins, etc. are near using more Cantonese verbs. I usually make one particulair starting area for the first wizard, then move on to the next one so that the map-painting doesn't get too boring too fast. It can be rather tedious to work for hours using the same scenery options. This is why I always try to "spread the climate" using steppe for one wizard, desert for another, pineforests for the third and so on. I find that this technique solves the boredom of populating large maps.
I also try to put the different races in their own environment. So the Dwarves are always surrounded by pinetrees and mountains, the Nomads in the steppe and so on. I also stay clear of unnatural mergings of scenery, like using snow next to lava.

Chapter Two: New Techniques

For this scenario I tried a new technique (it helps trying out new things, while the editor is rich of all sorts of different effects) of placing the muddy changeable terrain under all the trees. This solves two things; 1. The tress don't look like they are just planted on grass and makes them more natural. 2. It helps speeding up the mappainting while you don't have to add shrubbery nor Knights who say Ni. Staying on the forest topic, a technique which I think works very well is placing the 1.4 mangrove/bushes to outline the general size and shape of the forest, and then placing all the 1.4 single trees in between (vary with type) to make the forest look more diverse and natural. Putting some leafless-trees (don't know the name in English) in between the forests makes it also more natural imho. These leafless-trees also work very well in combination with the pine-trees.

Another technique I tried out, and worked amazingly well to my own surprise, was to raise the terrain (well, that is an old technique) and then putting some cracks on the raised hills. On one side of the hills I put the changeable terrain shadow, one click only otherwise it gets too dark. Surround the hill with forests as described above and you get a nice feature imho. this is appearant in the Nomad section of the scenario.

Chapter Three: XL Maps Boredom

Another solution to tedious mappainting is doing other stuff in between. After a few hours when you start to lose some interest, turn to scripting some events, making some items or making heroes. XL maps are a lot of work, and I mean a lot! Changing what you work on makes the work less boring and won't lose your interest in actually continue on working on it.

The most difficult thing about making maps in general is balancing. For this scenario, I placed a recruitment center near the capitals, again taking note of the contents. A nice fat AI block on it and defenders to strong makes that the AI won't kill the guards, leaving you with not having to fight for the new recruits. In the recruitment centers I place the, unbuildable, special 1.4 units. Then I decided that all wizards had to have wizard towers near (without the Wizards&heroes mod in play, the AI doesn't build them as known to most). This might be overkill, but although I have multiplayer in mind, I try to make sure people who play singleplayer also have sort of a challenge. With that in mind, I scripted some events boosting the AI with the recently discovered "Player-Type" condition by me (really didn't even know it excisted.).

When all the wizards positions are decided, capitols added and starting on the starting areas, I place the cities. My policy is, the more the better although I tried to take care not to overflow the map with cities, which would make it sort of unrealistic. When painting the starting area, I place the cities so that I can "paint" around them. Useful if you want to enclose a city in, for instance, mountains. Also saves work deleting parts of the mountain when you wanted to place the city afterwards. In the starting areas I also like to add the beforementioned recruitment center, surrounded by some scenery houses. New in my map was the idea of scripting pop-up events when players entered or were about to enter scenery villages. This made possible to try and make a more living world, as I try to make in all my maps (except Europe in Flames, but that's an oldie ).

Chapter Four: The Events

I also wanted to let the special tax events (as seen in the oldie map) return. Older players can recognise the reply to the "yes" option from the game Centurion, and the event itself from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series. Problem with those events are; you have to script a lot while I find that they only work when you script them for each player seperately (maybe there is an easier way, if so, please advise). That means with 8 wizards, you'd have to script 48 events ("Show Message", "Reply Yes", "Reply No", "Show Message Reply Yes", "Show message Reply No" and "Income after Reply yes" times 8) for one event to trigger. Like I said, if anyone knows a better way, please advise.

Another event I wanted to implement are the limits on mana stack. While I think spells are part of Age of Wonders, I dislike the fact that players can have stacks and stacks of mana, using it to enchant all their troops, buy items from the AI and so on. That is also why I decided on the refusal of placing mana nodes (also due to the mastery spell) in this scenario as well as Celederion. Again, this event was scripted for each player seperately and was rewritten and debugged many times for it to work.

Many of the events were inspired by some advice I got from my good friend, and LAN buddy, The Geez.

Chapter Five: Work Calls

Okay, time for some more work (although it is very quiet here, I have to do some work).

Chapter Six: Cantonese Stuff









As you can see, I can understand and read my own Cantonese. These are just a small portion of the notes taken during the making of the scenario. Posting more would glog up this thread.

As you can see, I drew a map with the old setup. After I was finished populating the map, adding the events and teleporters, I came to the conclusion during playtesting that the Underground level actually was in the middle when you play the game. Ofcourse, I had to remedy it while it would be so much better if you actually went to the side of the other part when changing maps. So that if you went from the underground to the surface map, you actually move to the left and vice-versa. Am I still making sense? Hope so, while I seem to have lost myself four lines ago.
So far the Cantonese stuff.

Chapter Seven: The Time Spent

Hours spent on the map: 72 hours scattered from the 4th of April to the 19th of April.

Hours spent on the events: 13 hours, same time span.

Hours spent on the items: 4 hours (again used Celederion items, and added new ones), same time span.

Hours spent on the Heroes/Wizards: 5 hours, same time span.

Hours spent on playtesting and bug-removal: 8 hours.
Further playtesting was done by The Geez which will not be counted in this.

So this kind of map takes about 94 hours, spread out over 16 days. Please note that I was recovering from illness and had a lot of spare time.

Chapter Eight: The Final Overview



This should be the whole land. Sorry for the white lines

Well I guess that concludes the Making of...

Any questions regarding picking my brain, suggestions for my next scenario, etc. feel free to post here.

Kind regards,

Low

[This message has been edited by Low_K (edited 05-08-2008 @ 09:16 AM).]

Replies:
posted 05-12-08 03:03 AM EDT (US)     1 / 23  
Chapter Nine: Bonus!

Well a lot of people ask me where I get the inspiration from regarding my Wizard/heroes/cities names. (Well actually no-one asks that but I thought it would be nice to add anyway).

Heroes and wizards usually contain several translations/variations of my own name in different languages. We have Ludwig, Ludovic, Louis, Lo'ow, etc. Those names usually count for a few heroes, thus requiring less thinking. Most Nomad and Tigran names come from Wikipedia where I just typed in "Arab names" and a stack of them came rolling out, including their meaning. Other names usually come from friends and D&D lore.

the cities is another thing. When naming cities I usually have a map of England next to me, or open on my laptop, and take various names from there. Hamlets and villages mostly while I avoid any big cities.

Other cities/towns/villages usually are generated translating Dutch villages to English. For instance; Noordwijkerhout will be translated as North Wickerwood and so on. I am very much against Dutch words in any game, thus the translation, and was especially happy that the Dutch Triumph guys didn't add it (although I spotted one random city-name called "Truus", which definitely is Dutch ).

But before I am getting side-tracked; Other names of cities just pop in my head while usually i have the tv or radio on when working on a new map. For this scenario I was listening to the Dutch football competition (soccer for the Americans), and just took some names of players for cities. El Hamdioui for instance is a football player, and also a Nomad city as well as the great city of Marcellis, a player from PSV and human town. Not many cities are based on football players, but some names just sound excellent for cities (imho that is).
To complement the names I also added some forum user names as city-names.

Well this is the (real) end of this making of...I think.

Kind regards,

Low
posted 05-21-08 06:57 PM EDT (US)     2 / 23  
One question. On what purpose did you not place magic nodes in the map ?

It's relatively a disadvantage for races that don't have mana/research bonus.


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posted 05-21-08 10:42 PM EDT (US)     3 / 23  
I liked your drawings. I used to do that as well (but I can't find them anymore)!
translating Dutch villages to English
Brilliant!
I made up a 'swolterdam', though


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
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Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 05-21-08 11:24 PM EDT (US)     4 / 23  
I made up a 'swolterdam', though
...and you should see all of the depraved activities that take place there, too!

Bad Swolte! Bad, bad Swolte!

OFFICIAL PASSWORD KEEPER - email me! aowsm.pass@gmail.com

GMMod for AoW2
'a River Ran Through It' aow2 map 'the Charm'(SM edition)
posted 05-22-08 02:02 AM EDT (US)     5 / 23  
@ NaecO,

The main reason is the mastery bug. I really dislike the mastery spells (and hope somehow they can be removed in 1.5), in combination with the domain spell (like fire domain). Furthermore I want the mana income to be low, it's not fun imho to have an army of, say, 8 summoned Dragons or Angels. I can understand that it is disadvantegous to some players, but to tell you the truth I didn't realise that actually when making the scenario (I didn't even know about the mana bonuses of certain races to be frank, could you inform me?).

I think that when in 1.5 the Wizard Towers' price will be lowered, as in the Wizard&Heroes mod, and mana bonuses will be linked to certain structures, the need for mana nodes will be obsolete while the cities will generate enough mana to get you by. And the Domain and Mastery spells will have no huge impact.

In my new scenario, as talked about in the Scenario Request thread, there will be no need for mana nodes and you will not miss them. But I hope you still have fun playing my maps

@ Swolte

Swolterdam is cool, I will remember that one But I wonder what Greenmonster means with the depraved things going on there...
posted 05-22-08 04:32 AM EDT (US)     6 / 23  
Low_K, all races have inherent bonuses that shows up in their cities. Frostlings have a mana bonus, archons have a research bonus, dwarves have a prod bonus for example.

I don't think that you need to worry about mastery spells in your map designs, you only have to stipulate that such spells are outlawed on your maps. The great majority of games I play have mastery spells banned as per house rules anyways. I haven't played a game in which it is cast in a very long time, other than Athendore II in which it is an important part of the game.

That being said, I think that not including nodes is a worthy design choice, and makes for a different kind of map. There is no imbalance other than what the map introduces, because the races are already balanced. (In v1.4 the balance is pretty good.) This way frostlings, dark elves and other magical races have a magic advantage which is fine and as it should be.

The thing that unbalances a lot of maps are the dominate and resurrect abilities. (Resurrect being the worst because it isn't affected by resistance or willpower.)
posted 05-22-08 11:28 AM EDT (US)     7 / 23  
So far, your maps are only destined to multiplayer. They can be played in single but much less fun. As fromage67 said, in PBEM the mastery spell is banned in most cases. Except for games with AI Emperor involved, the mastery spell is always banned.

Besides, you can put mane nodes in non-strategic area which is not a very difficult task, IMO.

And if I recall correctly, magic vaults do not exist in your map either, do they? Playing a fantasy game, I always like the magic element as part of the game


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
posted 05-23-08 05:15 AM EDT (US)     8 / 23  
Hehehe, see how not placing Mana nodes always gets mixed reactions from the community?

I agree with you, NaecO, that magic in a fantasy game is mandatory. Yet I find that too much magic is destroying the game. For instance, in Wizard&Heroes mod the enchantment spells are made very expensive to cast which I think is a good thing. I can remember games where I had 2 high level heroes, all buffed up walking with 6 summoned angels and the AI just couldn't do anything about it totally destroying the game. Wiz&Heroes mod cures that problem somewhat, and I think it should also be implemented in 1.5 while appearantly not many people play mods.

As for the banning of Mastery spells in multiplayer games I wasn't aware of that. Yet although I always target the multiplayer community, while I think this game shines even more on that part, I try to not forget the single-player community. This means that when I place the nodes, the AI will use the mastery spell and that would ruin the game, at least for me. Furthermore the lowering of the mana-income is also a good thing imho, and that is also what I try to achieve by not placing mana nodes, reason explained above.

So bottom line is, in my opinion, that magic is okay, but too much magic is not. But that's my opinion ofcourse.

I will continue not placing Mana nodes in any of my maps, but you could always place a few if you should feel it balances the game more. All my maps can be edited by anyone while there are no copyrights or anything on them.

I still hope you enjoy my maps, be it multiplayer or singleplayer.

Kind regards,

Low
posted 06-08-08 06:01 AM EDT (US)     9 / 23  
Just a quick word on the map. Our PBEM has been terminated due to some unknown error in the shadow world. One of the players in shadow world could not able to load his game in 2 turns consecutive. You might want to check out the thread

http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=25&tn=3772&st=recent&f=25,3772,0,60


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
posted 06-09-08 04:13 AM EDT (US)     10 / 23  
Hiya Naec0,

I am sorry to hear about the problems in the PBEM game. I really wouldn't know what might cause the bug. I played the scenario, with 2 human players, for many turns and it never crashed.

Might be that during the turn-sending something went wrong or some event gives an error. I cannot think of any reason why the game would crash, ofcourse I never tested it with 8 players, but I doubt that the game locks up because of that.

It is a rather resource hungry map with the full 3 layers so maybe the file or data doesn't get processed properly.
But quite frankly I really don't have a clue.

Kind regards,

Low
posted 06-09-08 02:53 PM EDT (US)     11 / 23  
Hi Low_K and Naeco,

You know, I am a bit reluctant to mention this, but I believe I have seen this error message:

Resource Missing TTCRaceStructure 649

in my log file after some multi-player BNW Beta games. I am not positive but I think I have. I don't see it in single player and will check again next time I play multi-player.

So I am just wondering if it's possible that one player played the game with BNW selected in AoWSM Setup. It can load saved games from the normal game, but if those saves are sent on to someone who doesn't have the mod setup, then I am sure there would be a problem lol.

Someone who has BNW could try loading the save there and see if it works. If someone sends me the save I can try too.

Thanks.

Kirky
posted 06-10-08 05:50 AM EDT (US)     12 / 23  
Hey

I also have the error 'Resource Missing TTCRaceStructure 649" in my AoWSMlog, after playing Wizard's Folly. I played WF with standard resources (upatch 1.4), not with BNW.

Even though this error is in my log, the game didn't crash and I could play normally, at least until day 10. The Wizard I had, was the Dark Elf one (I don't know how she's called), because Timelord was Dark Elf in the PBEM-game where the problem occured.

I also believe that I have seen this error once or twice before on another map than WF.

Regards,
Ecthelion
posted 06-10-08 02:22 PM EDT (US)     13 / 23  
Hi Ecthelion_21,

Interesting! Well I played a BNW multi-player game (random map) again last night. There were no problems with the game, but looking in the log afterwards that message appeared again. So whatever that particular error is it isn't one specific to the Wizard's Folly map or even BNW mod it seems, as you say you have seen the error before using UPatch 1.4 and other maps.

Oh well, I thought it was worth mentioning having seen that message in my log file.

Cheers!

Kirky
posted 06-10-08 04:26 PM EDT (US)     14 / 23  
I didn't say that I had seen the error before upatch 1.4. Sorry if it looked like it.
"TTCRaceStructure 649". Doesn't TC mean tactical combat here? That would seem logical to me, but I'm not sure.

But why are we only talking about "Resource Missing TTCRaceStructure 649"? In the particular PBEM-game this wasn't the only error. The other were:
Application opened at: 7:40:44 PM
List index out of bounds (-1)
List index out of bounds (-1)
Access violation at address 006B6E47 in module 'AoWSM.exe'. Read of address 00000000
System Time Error - Restart AoW2
Application closed at: 7:41:46 PM (4 errors)
and
Application opened at: 5:31:13 PM
Error during DrawSurface - NewTurnDlg
System Time Error - Restart AoW2
Error during DrawSurface - NewTurnDlg
Application closed at: 5:31:27 PM (3 errors)
and this error is from naecO's log. NaecO replayed Timelords turn to see if he also had problems with it.
Application opened at: 10:31:57 PM
Resource Missing TTCRaceStructure 649

Error during DrawSurface - NewTurnDlg

Error during DrawSurface - CWin
Failure during UpdateFrame
Application closed at: 1:58:59 AM (1001 errors)
1001 errors!? Is that even possible.

Of all these errors. I have only seen the Resource Missing TTCRaceStructure 649" before. I haven't seen the other errors and I have absolutely no idea what they might be. Let alone how to fix it.

[This message has been edited by Ecthelion_21 (edited 06-10-2008 @ 04:27 PM).]

posted 06-10-08 04:39 PM EDT (US)     15 / 23  
Hi,

Well the reason I mentioned that particular error (TTCRaceStructure 649) is because that is something I have seen in my log file after playing multi-player with BNW Beta. I have no idea about the other errors as I have never seen them.

I can't speak to what caused the problem playing the map at all. I will say though that sometimes problems with maps/mods are due to people not being setup properly. Wether this be their game is not correctly patched, they are using a wrong exe file or various other things.

Cheers!

Kirky
posted 06-10-08 05:25 PM EDT (US)     16 / 23  
That many errors are because of "Error during DrawSurface - CWin"

I think of one possibility that Low_K repainted the shadow world completely so that it looks like the surface (except he can not remove shadow sickness). The map would be ruined if it could not load one single grass tile. And it's easy to understand that there're more than a 1000 errors because when I loaded the map, the shadow world didn't even exist.


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
posted 06-11-08 00:06 AM EDT (US)     17 / 23  
This is really strange. Like I said before I haven't encountered the errors you encountered and I played the map many times after releasing it (both MP and SP). Ofcourse I didn't check the AOWSMLog file, but because the game didn't crash, there was no need for it.

The error seems to indicate that the problem lies with a Racial structure. I'll take a look at the map when I get home, but am puzzled why it should lock up. The only reason I can think of is that due to the Shadow World painted as grass somehow during turn sending in PBEM the game locks up as happened in the PBEM game. But then again the game should always lock up even when playing through LAN or Hotseat. Or someone used a wrong setup option, either a mod or an unpatched game, and corrupted the game like Kirky said.

Shame to hear you guys have probs with it.

Kind regards,

Low
posted 06-13-08 03:31 PM EDT (US)     18 / 23  
I am still trying to figure out what happened in my Wiz. Folly game;
Turn 112, playing as Tigrans.
Most of level 1 is mine (all but three cities) and 6 are mine on 2nd level. Majority of empire is Tigran, with some Nomads and some Humans. Have extripated hated halflings and migrated all but two dwarf cities. Have not been levying extra taxes as requested as I have plenty of cash.
All of a sudden, all of my tigran units are p-o'd; 36 units desert on one turn, 41 more on next. To make it worse, they are razing cities left and right.
I look at race relations and it says they are mad about misdeeds to tigrans. What friggin' misdeeds? No tax levies, no tigran cities conquered for more than 40 turns, no disbands, nothing. What the hell happened?

Arch-Enemy of the Annoyingly Dense
Practitioner of Whimsy
Celt,Finn & Swede Elder Gamer
posted 06-13-08 05:18 PM EDT (US)     19 / 23  
You didn't mention anything about your wizard's alignment.

Is it possible that your wizard's alignment has changed?

I have often had heros/units desert after capturing (or losing) a town that tipped my alignment.

[This message has been edited by flyguy (edited 06-13-2008 @ 05:20 PM).]

posted 06-13-08 07:39 PM EDT (US)     20 / 23  
His alignment must be neutral as he indicated that most of his cities are tigrans, several are nomad, human, only two dwarf cities.

The only thing that could lead to misdeed against a race is that you may have looted/razed a city (i.e:for a war quest)


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
posted 06-13-08 09:30 PM EDT (US)     21 / 23  
Nope; not one act vs. Tigrans. Nada.

Arch-Enemy of the Annoyingly Dense
Practitioner of Whimsy
Celt,Finn & Swede Elder Gamer
posted 06-14-08 00:28 AM EDT (US)     22 / 23  
Hello Kaskoid,

With all those rebelling units the game gets more difficult all of a sudden I can imagine

Seriously though; How much mana do you have? I have scripted an event that your mana storage will explode if it gets above 5k, in turn razing your capital. Although you should get a warning before that happened. Maybe that event triggered which made your units desert?

I couldn't think of any other reason while I did not script any negative morale modifiers through events, other than the mana storage.

Kind regards,

Low
posted 06-14-08 07:01 AM EDT (US)     23 / 23  
Even if it's the case, the desertion has nothing to do. Because it's not the wizard who destroy the cap himself but the in-game script (or god spirit you might say).


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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » AoW2/SM Scenario Design » The Making Of Wizard's Folly
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