Very interesting!

So it seems we'll be able to add somme very interesting artifacts/relics ; Hehe maybe an "artifact library" would be created and added to the U. patch 1.4 ...

A BIG thank for your study, and to PawelS for his unique tools!

I, at least, am very interested with any tables/index/key list...
Also can you give us a link to the tool that you have used to hex editing & bit field reading/hacking ?

Please, can you give a trivial step by step example from scratch?
for example: How to create a healing staff with healingII

thank again!

this topic should be sticked..

Your discoveries are very interesting indeed, Turbo Beholder.

Quote:

Link updated

The Unit Editor is sill "beta", but there are no known bugs in it. Setting the unit levels to 0 is not recommended, it can cause problems. The HP should be increased above 61 only for siege machines, because higher HP is in conflict with the Martyr spell.

Quote:

CRC source (C++)

I'm too lazy to create a GUI for this program

(starts investigating the Healing subject)

Very interesting Turbo Beholder!

Since they only change the pfs-files, we can look into the possibility of implementing some of your ideas for the unofficial patch!

Can you send me your emailadress, please?
(Swolte at gmail dot com)

~ Swolte

Quote:

Of course. Why not ? Simplest example from my little lab:

_ Tutor : _

Go to "Map"->"Items" sub-tab of AoWSMEd.
I'd recommend just to open personal debug map file in order to access tabs, since it's not in "Settings", it can work without any Custom Resources at all.




1. Click "Open Library" button.
   
2. "Add Library".
   Window appears. Enter new name, like "Test-1".
   Empty library page appears.
   Let's create item in first slot.
   
3. "New Item".
   Enter name, like "Bag-1".
   Give it only one property from any item slot type.
   For ones who don't know, access to properties is controlled by parameters on "Settings"->"Ability" tab of Resource edit.
   Let's select "Use" and property "Healing I".
   And change default picture to some other - say, "Pixie Dust" bag's (file length will be 93 instead of 99 if not touched).
   
4. Press "Ok".
   
5. Exit.
   ...Since it's not a very good idea to allow multiple programs to open one file without need, even if it's possible at all, right ?

   Now "User" folder contains file "Test-1.ail", length = 99 bytes (or 111 if "Enchantment-like" ability was chosen, but it's better to start with simple variant).
   Since "Healing 1" was selected, "Healing 2" will be reached almost right now.

6. Open it in Hex-Editor.
   (I preferred Hiew, see below)

7. Let's find Ability Index.
   Note that Item's ability records is placed above pair of item's name and library name, now it's obvious (only 2 bytes after names).
   To edit multiple-item libraries afterwards it will be essential.

   We'll see something like

   00000000: 01 00 00 80-01 10 01 03-14 00 15 07-01 0B 06 54
   00000010: 65 73 74 2D-31 01 00 00-00 01 00 00-7F 01 10 01
   00000020: 08 1F 00 21-1A 22 1E 24-1F 23 23 25-29 2A 30 2B
   00000030: 31 02 1E 00-01 04 40 00-00 00 01 00-00 0F 00 11
   00000040: 01 02 14 00-15 04 2F 00-00 00 01 C4-00 00 00 00
   00000050: 01 00 00 00-05 42 61 67-2D 31 06 54-65 73 74 2D
   00000060: 31 05 0F - - -
   (total length is 063h = 99 bytes)
   in hex part of viewer's screen and

   | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@T
   | e s t - 1^^^^^^^^^^^
   | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^###
   | ^^^^^^##^^#^^^^^
   | ^^^^@B a g - 1@T e s t -
   | 1 ^^

   in text column (characters that does not have text meaning nor is our targets was filtered out).
   This ability record is 14 bytes, and our possible targets is: Key, Index and Ability Level of chosen ability:

   00000030: 31 02 1E 00-01 04 40 00-00 00 01 00-00 0F 00 11
   00000040: 01 02 14 00-15 04 2F 00-00 00 01 C4-00 00 00 00
   (for people with color-blind browsers: there's corresponding color marks, look at raw html code)

   Just change 01 to 02, and your trial item will have "Healing II". Don't it looks too simple now ?
   Then save file if it's not saved yet.

8. Now close Hex Editor and run AoWSMEd again.

9. Open library, look at item and enjoy.
   You can test it on debug map now.

10. Now you know how this structure looks.

...and can do the same with other abilities, multy-ability items and even with multy-item files - after some simple experiments.
Hex-editing of "Enchantment-like" abilities is more complex, but certainly also possible.

Note that it's still shortened - increase and decrease cost and stats adjustments, then .ail file will be larger than 99 bytes.

For "proper" work of auto-cancelling abilities like Mud or Cursed, experiments with their indexes implanted in simple/"Enchantment-like" abilities can be necessary - it depends of wanted effect.
Because in game AoWSM can remove Mud, and not only from item-wielder, but from item itself too !
And there's can be objectionable effect - some changed item's properties can be set to default keys in next turn, or initialized by save/load.
Unfortunately, Throw Spear with Fire... | ...bolts key is also at best unstable.

Quote:

Also can you give us a link to the tool that you have used to hex editing & bit field reading/hacking ?

"Hacker's View release VI". See below.

_ Technical Tips: _

Main methods of further experiments:
Create two similiar .ail-s, then use file comparator (just "fc /b file1.ail file2.ail >diff_12.txt").
If difference was just 1 letter in library and item names, difference in 3 bytes will be detected (see above, at hex/text map).
Change item's properties in AoWSMEd, then look at files and their new differences again.
You'll easily detect 3 mentioned variables and bytes with item's image and item slot (though there's no reason to hex-edit things that can be easily chosen from GUI).

For experiments with abilities' effects in game, create small debug map with all necessary levels.
Place on this map all necessary heroes and items, as well as testing areas where items will be debugged (enemies, targets for wall crushing, changeable terrains, passages to UG and Shadow World, etc).
ADD trial items to map, do not COPY from library to map's bin ! Then items will be refreshed at each start of scenario and will reflect latest library changes.

Software used:

Hiew v.6.11 (last free version) was used in my experiments.
It's obviously intended for program files, but hex editor is nice too.
I thought it was final version, but now found SEN's page, with v.6.86. Downloaded it to test.

And... Struct Look (up to v.4.30, freeware up to 4.21) !
Sorely wanted tool, but not expected to found. Seems to be quite powerful.
And with their immense possibilities, size of both tools together is less than 1 Mb !

Beware: in Hex->"Edit" mode Hiew requires to press "Update" key to save changes, and discards them on "Esc", but "Replace" function works outside of "Edit" mode and changes file immediately. STL also can change file without save key or any warning.
So don't forget to back up files.

Last shareware versions of Hiew and STL is only 704 and 195 kb, and unpaked kits together occupies only 1.4 Mb; old free versions is even smaller than shareware ones.
Most of changes is either cosmetic or possibilities important mainly for very advanced users (there was not many bugs to fix) - so free versions can be used to minimize downloaded size and avoid twinges of remorse for spitting upon trial period at once.
But registered users can use fully functional Hiew with Win32 executable and more features...
Hiew can work with blocks, insert/delete blocks somewhere in middle of file, and have other advantages over old versions.
Note that there's two sites: one with STL(frozen project ), and other is current, with latest versions of Hiew.

"You describe structure - STL show it!"
*grin* *insert pump-action shotgun reload sound here*
2 PawelS:

STL allows to edit file according to its structure and to edit structure definition file itself right in its window, then apply, look, edit again...
And it can work with variant structures, which is essential for .ail files (ability record structure and size varies, see first article). I'm not sure that it can change one variant to another, but desired structure can be created in AoWSMEd, then edit its fields in STL...
I propose to use STL's format "file.stl" for all minor works with such structures as conventional - just like UGPM script is now.

Perhaps we'll have nice .stl-files with text descriptions of some interesting formats (like ail.stl) soon ?..
I want to participate - as soon as start to understand how to work with such formats.
But my ail.stl already can work with some parts of header and record structures,
and even able to discern 14-byte ability record from 26-byte one !

Who want to work on ail.stl too and one for UnitRes.pfs ?
Mod developers, would you like to receive it via email when done ?
Or it even can be placed here, then message edited with up-to-date version (But... I'll totally behemo... flood up this thread then ) ?
I would place it on my homepage... but hasn't yet created page itself... still...

P.S.
Unknown hero who first hit upon an idea to supplement default OS-s packgages with file comparators apparently done very good deed.
Thanks to PawelS for his programs.
And thanks to SEN for his little and powerful tools !

P.S./2 Imagine, how loud AoW developers laughs at it all right now...
2 Developers: please, write little program that will show somewhere (perhaps over IDE's window header) messages like "make it explicit", "make it adjustable", "make it editable" and "is it expandable enough ?" in random order - and launch it each time you write some part of AoW.
All other is good enough, thank you all.
And, BTW, any possible problems about which half of Forums talks now... abything but purely engine troubles will be solved in 1.01 patch with minimal efforts, really.

P.P.S.
U-u-ups. Excuse me. Re-edited again. Off-hand slips, like one with omitted selection of item picture (that caused experimental .ail length to be 93 instead of typical 99) and saving (actually, AoWSMEd automaticaly saves .ail files) is corrected now.
I was confused when realized at last that for unknown reason one-ability .ail-s created as only 93 bytes long now, believe me.

---

And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence _{- R.W.Wood}
The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane... _{- R.Kipling}
[UPatch 1.4 Team] * STLpack

[This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 04-19-2005 @ 08:59 PM).]

I just downloaded StructLook, I'll try to define the structure of PFS files.

Turbo Beholder, this is awesome. This one deserve to be a sticky.

I do not have a full understanding of what you are doing here yet, but pls give us posted here. When I get time (say a few hours), I'd definitely investigate on it.

There are a few abilities I aways want. E.g.

1) Healing 2
2) Group travel
Say "Forest Guide" will grant all units in stack "Forestry"
3) Tunnuel that work on Hard rock
4) Make Metamorphsis, Dragon Growth, Changeling more flexible in term of what is beling evolved
5) Spell Casting I for units
6) Animate Dead 2 that gives more HP

Is 2-6 possible?

Turbo Beholder: THANK!
Your example was very clear.

Curently, I'm playing with STL/diff too trying to put a "staff of curing" with healingII into a mod resource.

once again thx for this thread!

Have a nice day

7) similar to 2), is it possible to Add the ability 'Vampirism"?
All units in the stack will be all granted "Seduce, Undead". This will be a good ability for my VampireLord unit in ClimberMOD.

Can these changes to ability, applies to Units?

[This message has been edited by Climber (edited 04-19-2005 @ 02:32 PM).]

I just made some experiments with abilities gratned to entire party, and the results are negative. The abilities are given to units PERMANENTLY, and sometimes the game crashes

Ok, i'll dedicate this 3-rd article to implementations.

Both tested/proven effects and just ideas/suggestions.

Quote:

So you have to recalculate CRC (with PawelS's program) ?

BTW, why we really need to create "artifact" items in resources, if .ail libraries works good already ?
Units/Heroes resources cannot be placed in library, so .pfs change is really necessary, but not with items...

Quote:

He-he... Tested with Shadow Shift.
And there was bugs, but some passive abilities perhaps will work smooth. I'll test it.
I mentioned "Phantom Ship" unit with "Transport #"(perhaps Lvl 3-5) and grantable "Undead" and "Physical Protection". It will be tested too.

The same with "grantable" Shadow Walking.

"Guardian Spirit":
Unit with some protective effect, perhaps Blessed, tweaked to Leadership # key.
But Blessed is enchantment effect and therefore enchantment-like ability (it's tested: added in AoWSMEd and viewed), their special keys still unknown and it can be unstable if index placed in short ability record (but change itself is possible).
Yes, i'm Old Good "MoM"'s fan too.

Quote:

Perhaps we cannot add new, even similiar to existing (cannot say for sure - still don't know structure of "Abilities.pfs" so cannot start experiments), but we can tweak others, existing...

Quote:

...Maybe it will be temporary, maybe permanent.
And for ALL units that can be affected by Leadership. Do you really want it works that way ?..

Quote:

Doubtlessly. File structures is different, but used Ability records structure itself is exactly the same.
Though we have to recalculate CRC for "unitres.pfs" (see in first article, about PawelS program).
Just open and save, and it will be recalculated.

Quote:

Why "would be unbalancing" abilities like Cursed (N turns) ?
Undead... is not always clean bonus... they're turnable.
And even in other cases such ability to "putting in particular stack" can be just very hard to obtain.
What about unit with Level raised over 4 (by PawelS's Unit Editor) and appropriate cost, Mov 4, Transport I, and grantable ... Protection or Shadow Walker ?..
And, moreover, who said that it can be built in City at all ?

__
Someone wants to try things like creation of unit that can "Build Roads" ONLY trough Earth hexes instead of simple "Tunneling" ?
With "Bombard" or "Hurl Firebomb" that Paralyzes victim ?
Unit or Item that turns entire party to "Crusader"s ?
Or gives "Undead", "Physical Protection" and "Energy Drain" (at least "Undead" perhaps will be used in my "Phantom Ship" unit).
Unit that can "Build Outpost" only on hexes where "Shadow Shift" is possible ?

Item "...of Shadow Magic" with "Spell Casting #" ability twisted to Shadow Shift's Key ?
Or "Doom Gaze" ability with Pixie Dust's random effect ?
Good ability for us Beholders, IMO.
Unfortunately, Pixie Dust's Behavior_Key gives (3/3) uses per day, so perhaps AI will always use all 3 attacks at once as soon as possible, but this modification can be useful anyway.

__

(Anything sensible), Ability Level 1 -> N
- perhaps most stable type of Hex-Ed tweaks.

Very recommended to test:
To upgrade ability without touching others (especially, ranged attacks), add the same ability to unit's higher ranks, just like Vision # or Leadership #, then adjust their Ab.Levels. IMO, must work always, though without indication.
First tested on Poison Darts - Increases +2 Att, +1 Dam per point; and no problems found so far.
I'll prefer this upgrade in many cases, since Marksmanship gives +1/+1 per grade, it's +2/+2 per two grades - and archer will be turned to Ballista instead of sniper if we'll give him more Marksmanship points !

Magic Bolts (Key -> Doom Gaze)
- one of my first hex-tweaks, it's checked, no problems found.

Venomous Spit (Key -> Doom Gaze)
- seems to be faultless too.
(They said: "cohesive goo"... he-he)

(basic ranged attack), (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
- but not stable, will be initialized with ability defaults, so key will be lost,
if you can avoid it, write.

Crooked abilities estimated applications :

Powerful enough item:
Flame Thrower
Fire Bolts (normal)
Fire Breath (normal)
Venomous Spit (Key changed -> Doom Gaze)
Blowing-down mode.

...or less powerful
Pitch Blower
Venomous Spit (Key changed -> Doom Gaze)
Marksmanship I (Key is passive, or you really want to see how it crashes ?)
or
Pitch Thrower
Fire Bolts (Key -> Doom Gaze)
They stuck AND incinerated now...
Spitting Retort
Venomous Spit (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
Laboratory can be VERY unhealty place, but also useful.
Staff of Resurrection
Resurrection (normal)
Holy Strike (normal)
Healing (Level 1 -> 2 )
? Holy Protection (normal)
Res +1
Item Type= itAttack
Staff of Power
Spell Casting 1 (normal)
Magic Strike (normal)
Dispel Magic (normal)
Magic Bolts (Key -> Doom Gaze)
? Magic Protection (normal)
Res +1
Item Type= itAttack
Orb of Power
Casting Specialist (normal)
Magic Relay (normal)
Res +1
Item Type= itDefence | itUse
Rift Crystals
Casting Specialist (normal)
Magic Bolts (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
? Magic Protection (normal)
? Res +3
Item Type= itDefence
Rainbow Crystals
Magic Bolts (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
Throw Blade (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
? Magic Protection (normal)
or
? Res +3
Item Type= itDefence
Shining Ice Shards
Frost Bolts (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))

____

Units and misc. abilities

Hurl FireBomb (Key -> Doom Gaze)
For Pitchball Thrower, or perhaps just variant function for some catapults.

Bombard (Key -> Doom Gaze)
He-he. "Sticky bit"...

Shoot Black Javelin (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
good variant for Witch's curse throwing - can be strong, long- or extralong-range, but limited to 3 uses/day.

Frost Bolts (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))
Poison Darts (Key -> Pixie Dust (3/3))

Needs to be checked:
If Att/Dam upgrades is not directly coded as unit.level-dependent but just auto-added to appropriate records in "Unitres.pfs" as "imlpied default properties"...
Then we can override them with explicit values and Unit's upgrades can be adjusted individually...
Or Unit can be deprived of Attack upgrades altogether, set manually to Attack=0, +Charge="Battering Ram" unit that works correctly (?).

---

And even I make no pretence Of having more than common sence _{- R.W.Wood}
The secret half a country keeps, the whisper in the lane... _{- R.Kipling}
[UPatch 1.4 Team] * STLpack

[This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 04-21-2005 @ 10:18 PM).]

If the ability spell casting and a spell would work on a unit would be great.

Is it possible to change the upkeep of units?

As far as it has been explored so far, Spell Casting cannot be given to units by any means. Once the non-hero unit has it, the game crashes the first time the unit is selected in tactical combat.

PawelS, in what situations does giving abilites to the whole party crash the game? Giving the abilities permanently might be acceptable for some abilities, causing crashes will not. Have you checked whether the ability is still there when you save and load the game?

Moreover, has anyone checked what bytes activate the "expires after combat" effect? I need a "permanent mud" effect for one modded unit, and simply giving the unit "mud" has effect for one combat only.

I have three days' holiday nexte weekend, so I'll manage to give my contribution to the experimenting if I can.

Quote:

Like what?

I don't think there is any Ability that would be worth anything, where it wouldn't be unbalancing to give it to a Unit permanently just by putting that Unit in a particular stack once.

Is it possible to make ignition/fire strike cause damage every every time it goes off?

Is it possible to make burn do extra damage if it removes webbed status D&D style?

It would be cool if physical strike could be seperated from the rest. So only poison strike could be used instead of the need of "strike" to have poison strike. So it will only check resistance, not defense and then resistance.

And if ranged attack that have physical strike also could have other attacks than only physical and magic. Like death, holy or poison damage.

And someone said this in another thread: to make fire halos ignition a real ignition so units who have it won't be able to get webbed.

Troubles

Quote:

Exactly the same problem.
I mentioned this trouble in previous article - if placed on item, it can be removed even from item, not only from hero,
Wanted "Iron Golem Suit" item - Physical Protection, Charge, Mud (seems to be only way to hinder movement), +Stats.

But perhaps it's not some "bytes" but ability itself is initialized on some events.
Say, if Energe Drained (N rounds) is not expired, on exit from TC it will be found and cleaned anyway.
Though there's must be some counter anyway...
I'll examine it too.

Already tried to add some Enchantment ability and change its ability index as i proposed ? Seems to be more stable. What happens ? Was it auto-initialized, and on which events ?

Quote:

...Draconian Growth and Infected.
IMO, Kharagh's description is right,
at least about such abilities. Seems to be hard-coded.
Since appropriate UnitIndexes is not found in "Ability.pfs" records, not to say they not present in "Unitres.pfs".

Quote:

Hmm. AoWSM Patch v. = 1.2 ? 1.3 ? Mail such details, and i'll look upon it too.
They did something with Leadership # in patches - esp. in 1.3.
What abilities was changed to Leadership # key ?

Passive (36 01 10 01) ? Active ? Enchantment indexes placed in short records ?
Perhaps different groups should work differently.

It's really unstable change, and must be tested again and again - though "bestowed abilities is permanent" effect itself can be useful too - sometimes.
And it surely crashes sometimes without obvious provocation.
Maybe, there's some rule or even stable detour ?..

I'll test it with Infected, abilities with counter like Cursed (N turns) (or Shadow Walking (N turns)).
It's interesting, will it grant counter abilities correctly ?..

Just tested item of Dark Gift with key changed to Leadership (if in enchatments records key is first bytes too).
Nothing happens... at all. Dark Gift works on hero with item, but not bestowed. And not crashed too.

Quote:

??? *confuse* But it can be set in AoWSMEd. Any ability that set to "astUnit" can be added to unit, right ?
Creation of item or unit with Spell Casting # and pre-set spell (like Heroes that have Spell Casting # in libraries), is more complex operation (though seems to be solvable). One of my current tasks.

Quote:

Hmmm. Still not really tested it because of my inclination to experiments with small .ail files. If placed on item it causes bugs too.
But when Heroes.pfs is backed up and starting spell for one ot Heroes is changed from either existing or "none" to something, some strange changes appears.
I'll say can such special additional record be placed on item or non-hero unit or not at least after experiments with PawelS new format definition file.
If it can, perhaps this can prevent crashes with units and bugs with items...

Quote:

Is it known that some ability in AoW2/SM can do something (not to say attack procedure) every time it goes off ?..

Quote:

Yes. But "Strike" and "... Strike" functions is different.

Quote:

IMHO, their Behavior Keys controls retaliation and maybe "implied action" status of "Strike" too (though "clean" archers have ranged attack as default... less priority ?), but i haven't tested Strike's key-tweaks yet.
And in "Abilities.pfs" their records seems to be quite different too.

So we have to create 1-2 new abilities to do it.
And since structure of "Abilities.pfs" is not known yet, i cannot say exactly, can it be possible or not, but perhaps its more hardcoded than changeable.
If we'll able to create new abilities similiar to existing, but adjusted, there's will be more changes,
Some records in "Abilities.pfs" seems to be long enough to contain more than few fields of data shown in AoWSMEd...
And only if those records is not only number/bitfield parameters, but actually refers to things that coded ini execs by their numbers, and readed by execs without strictly defined table sizes, etc - perhaps something can be done...

Quote:

How badly do you (as a modder) want this? Are you willing to sacrifice Magic Strike, Bolts, etc as a separate Ability?

I have an idea, but I thought it better to open a new topic.

[This message has been edited by ZombieEater (edited 04-21-2005 @ 09:43 PM).]

I would like to be able to change global spells to become combat spells. Or make combat spell available to cast in global map and global spells in combat.

Spell Casting cannot be given to normal units, event though it looks like it is possible in the editor. I have experimented with it, and I remember I was not the only one. It's a shame, but this is how it works

WRT other abilities, there are some "unused" abilities (Lightning bolts, Gas breath, Entangle strike and the like) that can be tweaked and then added to the available abilities. Of course some MODs already make use of these, so using them may be disruptive anyway.

Can Seduce, Dominate, etc. be made usable more than once per day?

Can Infection spell now do some Poison Damage? Can Invisibility lower the chance of getting hit? Can Protections be made more usefull--at least can they completely negate Weaknesses? Can Mastery spells be made unique?

Can the resurrect ability be made to autoresurrect a dead unit at the end of battle if you haven't used it before then?

Can dispel be made to work on seduced, dominated etc units? Could a special free from control ability (or what ever you want to name it) be made to put onto units? Such a ability would be perfect for saints.

Is Hiew v.6.86 freeware or shareware so it will expire?

There is Hiew v.6.87, check http://webhost.kemtel.ru/~sen/

Is it not possible to make a new ability by copying all code from one ability to another ability where you have deleted all changes?

[This message has been edited by Tearion (edited 04-27-2005 @ 03:44 AM).]

Quoted from Tearion:

It is not so simple. But I believe it can be done after we have done the appropriate tinkering with the .pfs files. Turbo Beholder found some interesting clues, so it is clear that there must be a solution.

Some of the effects are hard coded in the Delphi classes. Code cannot be copied from one class to another as you suggested, Tearion. So we should be limited to changing whatever the devs choose to parameterize in Delphi properties with the published visibility type. But there is always another way...

[blow away dust from old Turbo Pascal manual]

IIRC, when a Delphi object is loaded into memory from its file storage format, the first bytes in the "saved" record represent the unique identifier of the class the object belongs to. The loader code then "guesses" the correct class from the id and calls the class's appropriate constructor to load the object data from file.

Well, if the data schema of two different classes is the same (same number and ordering of fields), one can trick Delphi into believing that an object is of a different class than it was when it was stored to file: you just have to hex edit the class id, which is usually a plain 32-bit integer. This is the equivalent of copying the code, but only works when the two classes have the same data structure, otherwise the game crashes. I did the trick in the early 90's with old versions of Borland Pascal, so it is possible that we can do something similar with Delphi now. I'll try and experiment as soon as I have some spare time, and I suspect that PawelS already has some clues, too.

Note that this is not the same as the ability tinkering that is currently under experimentation. Turbo Beholder has discovered some peculiarities that were not hard coded in the classes but parameterized in the record structure.

There are no class identifiers in the ability.pfs file, although I believe that what Turbo Beholder calls "key" (it appears in item files, unitres.pfs etc.) is actually the class id, so the last paragraph of Rosen's post is not true. Every instance of an ability on an item or unit can be "disguised" by using an id of another ability class, sometimes with unpredictable effects.

I had no time to tinker with abilities lately (due to my work on the unofficial patch), but expect some detailed reports soon.

Quoted from PawelS:

Quoted from PawelS:

Hmmm, does this mean that what I called "tricking Delphi into believing a class is in fact another class" is exactly what Turbo Beholder did? This could explain the crashes you mentioned.

Now that you pointed it out, TB's "key" looks a lot like the old good class IDs that are used in Borland Pascal to load/store objects from files. The high bytes are always 01 00, 0110, 0111, 2100 etc., assigned manually, as hex constants, at the start of the Delphi unit that contains the class. The low bytes are what actually identifies the ability within the source code unit, and they tend to assume all possible values, since a unit can contain a lot of classes.

Quoted from PawelS:

Is the Ability.pfs file hex-editable with the knowledge we have now? I have not yet tried any tinkering myself for the same reason, i.e. lack of time , but maybe I can try on saturday.

Ok, PawelS and Turbo Beholder. Let me see if I got the picture before venturing into the dangerous domain of hex editing.

1) units do not have the ability ID attached to them but the whole ability record (reminds me of my old Delphi programming style, so I can understand why); code ensures an ability is not attached twice to a unit in the editor.

2) the ability record includes the ABILITY ID (TB calls it index), used to associate resource strings & the like, and the CLASS ID (TB calls it key), used to attach the correct VMT at runtime (VMT is Virtual Method Table for non-OOP-geeks).

3) TB's trick appears to change the CLASS ID, actually changing the VMT at runtime; this is exactly what I used to do some 12 years ago, so I can understand how it works, and why it sometimes does not work.

4) Some abilities share the same class ID, i.e. they belong to the same Delphi class and differ for their data content only.

Do you agree about this?

And, last but not least: mods, may we discuss this here?

[This message has been edited by RosenMcStern (edited 04-28-2005 @ 08:30 AM).]

You're right

BTW there's nothing interesting in Ability.pfs (only "properties" that are changeable in the editor). You can try to add some properties (like stat modifiers) to some abilities, but I doubt if they would work.

I have experimented somehow with Hex editing. I discovered nothing significant in addition to what PawelS and TB did last week.

Contrary to my last post, I think the 2-byte field that TB called the “Key” is not the class ID. The two bytes just after the 15-04 sequence (or the 15 04 1E 05) is the class ID (called “index” by Turbo Beholder) – it is not the same as the resource ID in the ability.pfs file - or at least the Ability ID whereas the Class ID is unreachable.

It is possible that the “Key” field represents the ID of an “executor” class that is attached to the ability and is invoker by the ability to perform certain actions – namely applying itself to the unit or checking the results of an attack. This explains why you can achieve the same effects as “Pixie Dust” or “Doom Gaze” by changing the “executor” code – notice that it replaces the damage calculation routine thoroughly. Unfortunately only a limited set of these executors are compatible with one another, and some are apparently compatible but cause crashes and malfunctions. Frex, if you give the “Throw spear” executor to another ranged attack and the unit already has Throw Spear, the “Throw Spear” ability is marked as used after the other ability has been used!

Anything that has an attack value can be increased in level, even Dominate. The attack goes up by +2 per level. This means that Charm can be reproduced by giving dominate a lower attack value and manually increasing the level for the sphinx and the Evil Eye. Unfortunately, only Healing reveals the actual level of the ability in the name, so you cannot tell whether a unit has Turn Undead I or Turn Undead IV. Since I discovered that there is no limit to an ability’s level, this can lead to unpleasant discoveries during battles: I created Hurl Lightning 32 and I could almost smell the roasted Goblins…

Anyone has more interesting discoveries?

Last but not least: TB, I experimented with giving round attack “wall damage” and could reproduce the Battering Ram effect you wanted. It is a bit strange, since it attacks two sections of a wall, but it works. Oughta give the unit Wall Crushing instead of Strike, too.

Finally: Turbo Beholder, could you give me your personal email? I swear I’ll not spam you, it is just that this discussion is becoming too techinical to keep it on a forum.

Quoted from PawelS:

Maybe.
And "Index" is bound with both Ability record in .pfs and unique Name (as you know, not in record).

BTW.
I must say that i'm biased to use data structures "abstractly", even if they resemble or even approved to be standart ones.
Even "Behavior Key"/"Ability Index" terminology was chosen for its most "functional-descriptive" style.

Any program i'll write will work with structure and pointers (and pointer tables) through procedures declared and implemented in custom library, if there's will not be more serious reason to do it otherwise than just presence of similiar methods in built-in libraries.
I even hope your programs will do the same.

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Structure is still unknown for me, but IMHO it can be described and used... sooner or later.

IMO, our real task - whatever we can call it - in fact is creation of new resource editor(s) without known limitations of AoWSMEd, and perhaps more adjustable too.
"Adjustable", of course, includes optional validators as well as other filters and templates.
So all resources can become more accessible sooner or later.

I already stopped my custom "what-if" experimentsand started to write program.
STL is very good for exploration, and PawelS wrote nice .stl, and i'm slightly enhanced this .stl too, but with real editor all such experiments will be faster anyway.

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Not precisely. It just cannot be attached twice in one ability set "nest" (Basic-Silver-Gold).
Thanks to PawelS to discovering this structures too.

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Perhaps.

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Of course. E.g. Spell Casting # have different structure and therefore it caused crashes if placed on unit or item.

But game crashes sometimes even if all data difference is key|index values... Methods seems to be unable to work correctly if called with "incorrect" argument values (passive ability vs. active) ?..

And works "correctly" in every respect with different data structures in file.
E.g. with "Enchantment-like" record with extra-subheader "1E 05" and extra-subrecord addressed by this "05"(thanks to PawelS again).
Or even without "necessary" subrecords of "turn-timer" parameters (abilities like Cursed).

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Wrote mail right now. Sorry for delay.

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

[This message has been edited by Turbo Beholder (edited 05-02-2005 @ 09:35 PM).]

nm

[This message has been edited by Tearion (edited 06-24-2005 @ 08:27 AM).]

Whyy do certain spells effect physical range (like holy champion) but but others don't? If we could get a answer to that we might be able to make those that don't effect physical range, to effect it.

Some examples of spells I've been told do not effect physical range- Fury, oily skin, dark gift (I just refer to its bonus to its +1, +1, bonus not death damage) and blinding flash.

What would be involved with getting shadow sickness to effect physical range? Or does it already?

[This message has been edited by TruePurple (edited 06-16-2005 @ 07:24 PM).]

nm

[This message has been edited by Tearion (edited 07-06-2005 @ 05:41 PM).]

Turbo Beholder, PawelS or RosenMcStern can you try to make a unit that is enchanted with fire halo not possible for the unit to get webbed. I think you will have to put fire strike and ignition into fire halo to make it work.

Quoted from Tearion:

Unfortunately, it is totally impossible to modify the basic characteristics of an ability in means that are not allowed by the editor. If you peruse this thread carefully, you will understand that all changes proposed here are valid only for the ability that the particular unit possesses. If priests in the patch gain Healing II at silver, it does not mean that you will see Healing II in the Unit Editor.

Besides, I think the modification you request needs code changes.

I see.. I thought that only applied to artifacts.

Quoted from Tearion:

Nope. Changing the UnitRes.pfs file is slightly more complicate than hex-editing a .ail file, but only because it is much bigger. Alas, this is the only thing we can do, as in the Air Galley mod proposed by Swolte. We have not found any way to change an ability itself, AFAIK, since the Ability.pfs file contains only data that can be changed in the editor, too.

Quoted from RosenMcStern:

Also, you have to update the CRC (last four bytes) after editing the pfs files.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 06-25-2005 @ 01:17 PM).]

*blows dust off the topic*

I was wondering whether it is possible to edit the Spells - not through the Editor (tested and it is not possible) but through Hex-editing.
Say, I want to change the Spell classification from Global to Combat or even make a particular spell have an Area effect (should have the radius field in the spell description) - is it possible to do so by editing the spells.pfs file?.

The reason I am asking here is - TB and PawelS have apparently deciphered the structure of the .pfs file using STL. Is that correct?. Also, has anyone done any experimentation with anything other than Abilities?.

Further, some spells have interesting differences. Eg: Chain Lightning and Fireball. Both have the same field names and shots/radius for CL is 5/3 and for fireball is 1/2. So, why does CL affect units selectively while fireball affects all units in that radius?. Are these hardcoded in the game exe?.