Yar Do'Knizz (Lloth's Blade)
Day 27:

So be it Avlee! You crush my loyal troops, and approach. Yet I do not fear you Lightbearer. First, you must find that which you seek to kill, and then, you must still kill it!

TS

Avlee -

The two "lucky" doombats were killed today. The road to Do'knizz's realm seems clear.
On the surface, my maiden and scout confront the executioner sent by Do'knizz. What a fancy name for such a pathetic dark elf!! Executioner indeed!!

Turn sent

Waiting for the inevitable.

ts

Maya,

We spotted Lodis with her last remaining troops.

TS

Yar Do'Knizz (Lloth's Blade)
Day 28:

I welcome the sweet embrace of everlasting shadow, Lightbearer, as do all my minions! But confuse yourself not. I avow I will reap venegeance upon thee one day Elf.
Until then, you must catch a shadow, amongst a storm of darkness. Come sun-dwellers!
Taste the pain!!
You may 'rule' the surface, but you shall become lost in the underdark!

TS

Avlee -

Two towns and a village were captured from the Plague of Darkness invading the clean air of the surface. Soon the source shall be found, in the "storm of darkness" and forced to beg for mercy for all the killing she had forced us to do!!.

Turn sent.

Yar Do'Knizz (Lloth's Blade)
Day 29:

The end is nigh, but a plot still hatches. I await the Lightbearers eagerly.

TS

ts

Maya-

Even goblin hero's don't fight for Lloth anymore, but joined the Forces of Light.

TS

Yar Do'Knizz (Lloth's Blade)
Day 30:

Bogga joined our dying cause, and aided in the destruction of another Boar. Yet another Boarskin saddle...

TS

Blablabla, I have been stuck in my tower for the last 5 turns... This is getting repetitive. Maybe you should team up on me soon and end my pain please.

[This message has been edited by jsroy73 (edited 02-01-2005 @ 07:58 PM).]

Maya,

Lodis is becoming insane, her missery is ending soon, very soon...

TS

Yar Do'Knizz (Lloth's Blade)
Day 31:

Another day, another death... and Boarskin saddle

TS

Avlee -

Quoted from Lodis:

Done!!

Turn sent

Geez. I got the chance to look at the power graph, the one that shows the relative strength of the players at the end of the game. On turn 5, Green military has jumped ahead of every one else and the gap just widened from there on. You guys won this game on turn 5 Congratulations

The game is pretty much over. The army I am sending into Do'knizz's realm will surely finish him off.

Well, since by green might, it means me...let me explain. I just used my nymphs well to get as many recruits as possible. I don't think there were many battles that were fought on those early days without a nymph. Also, I didn't produce any units (except for 2 treemen) but spent all my money on recruiting before starting on Iron Maidens. Maya pretty much did the same thing...thouugh she had some tougher guards around in some places. Other than that, our exploration was way faster than yours, I believe.

I was surprised that Lodis hadn't explored further and faster - since you have cave crawling units and with that hasteberry tree, you could have sneaked a surprise attack on any one of us quite easily.
Same with Do'knizz - I was surprised to see that critter's den with a glutton and 2 archers guarding it still unexplored. Not only does it not give you the chance to recruit high level units, it gives your opponent who is invading you the chance to recruit them.

In this game, I think exploration was the key...faster you explore, faster you can find feasible targets to attack and you wont lose time making unnecessary moves. We also found the surface and underground routes to your realms very quickly...so after that, it was just a question of building up and pushing forward.

Maya,

One down, one to go...

TS

I dont think exploration was all that important in that game. Exploration is always of major importance but this game ended to fast for exploration to be of any use and I think this was due to your incredible recruiting power.

Also, you mentionned that their was a shack with a gluton guarding it and was surprised that we had not gotten rid of it. Well, you probably know it was near my ally and that I was to far away from it to go and dispose of the guards. Also their is almost no mines near my ally to use. I think he had only one maybe two. So by the time he could pump up the troops to clear it you had allready showned yourself in the caves and it was then too late to risk loosing troops to maybe recruit some interresting units. He had to intercept your troops or risk loosing what he had gained by your raidings.

Also, if you look a the underground level, you will notice that my ally had access to a lot of power nodes but the defenders where also very difficult to overcome, and if you add to that that nodes defend themself with spells, they where almost useless to him as he could not conquer them.

I was more lucky than him because a structure point allowed me to create my special dark elven structure to create succubus. This allowed me to create them and start charming me an army like you guys did, but at the difference that they cost me 150gp instead of 50, and took me 3 turns to build instead of 2. Although they did help me recruit the hugh stack that Maya destroyed, they did so at a pace much slower than yours.

Again, exploration is a major aspect of every game, and we did a lot of it (almost a third of the surface was explored and more than half of the undeground), we where lacking in troops in wich to use to explore (because it is either explore or clear shacks and stuff). Also, since my ally was of weak military strength, when Avlee (at the time being of Powerfull military strength) made contact in the southern parts of the caves (by turn 10 to 15 I beleive?) it was clear I had to help him, or face a 2 vs 1 match. So my troops where going back and forth and all other aspects (exploring, clearing shacks, etc) where of lower priority. So it was difficult to do anything.

Also, what really killed me in the end, was that the map allowed Maya to hoard some troops 0 days off my capital in a way that I could could only face him in this way: 1 of my stack VS 2 of his. Even if I had attacked him with 8 of my level 3 units I would have been destroyed. This small tunnel should have been edited out in my opinion.

Oh, and by the way, if you guys would be interrested in playing this map again (exactly as is with no edits) but with roles reversed, I would be happy to do so

Anyway, congratulations again for your victory

Oh, and I really enjoyed the personnalised heros. They where very excelent.

Both teams had the same start, one city with gold structures and another with mana structures.
I agree I used the terrain to my advantaged.

A rematch is fine, although ShadowKin reported to have very little time.

Jsroy, I believe exploration was crucial in this map too.
By the time I arrived in the underground (in Do'knizz's realm), Erupted and I had explored almost all of the surface and more than half of the underground leading to both of you. Since we had a clear indication of where we needed to go, we were on the push all the way along.
Also, exploration allowed us to get some powerful heroes who were present in the recruiting structures. I am almost sure that the critter's den also had a high-level hero + some other units (I can verify this in our rematch )

If you had explored and found out that you can get to Maya via the underground, after defeating my treemen, one of your powerful stacks could have made it to Maya's capital within 5-6 rounds (using the hasteberry tree). That would have certainly pushed us on the defensive.

I am certainly game for a rematch on the same map with switched sides but I would like to edit my skills. IMHO, Summoner and Technophobe are not good skills to have in a game which is not going to take long to finish. You will never know if you can get good summons. If you do, you can always research it later (like we did).
So, if the other two agree to a rematch and it is also agreed that editing the preferences - only the skills and spheres (if one of you want to) - I will certainly give you the rematch.

Edit: So, the Lightbearers have agreed to extinguish their torches and roam around the Underdark, conquering all they see...

[This message has been edited by Timelord (edited 02-03-2005 @ 01:18 PM).]

I was following your progress as I do with all games on my maps, turn logs were fun to read

Some comments about balance.

As Erupted mentioned indeed one player of each alliance starts with a cluster of gold structures nearby (Orcish mines for Lodis and dwarven forges for Maya). Other 2 players had few to no mines but had a cluster of nodes. It was made to encourage interaction between allies.

Defenders of nodes were not weak, but definitevly beatable even with starting army. To conquer his nodes Do'Knizz had to defeat stack of syron giant + 3 first level syrons. And his starting army is 9 units including quite potent hero with weaken spell. Defences of nodes themselves are quite weak (they were not random)
water node - 2 chaos spawns
fire node - 3 fire hounds
cosmos node - 2 magic spirits
air node - nordic glow and 2 z-birds
I don't think there can be weaker defences. Or you expected them to be guarded with one halfling peasant each
Earth node was guarded a little better - with elemental - but same node for good elf was guarded alike and it was intentional.

About narrow tunnel - well it is an underground after all, isn't it?

So it was quite well balanced I think If you agree for rematch you can just post there, I will keep an eye on it And if you want I can send the map to you for examination.

Well, I dont know if I agree the nodes where all that easy to capture. Maybe I'm not seing this rigth, but I always found capturing nodes a bit confusing.

Maybe there was only 2 chaos spawn guarding the water node for example, but sometimes when I attack one of those the first thing that happens is me receiving a GreatHail before my turn, and a second one on the start of the second. This usually has the effect of killing a lot of my troops if I am lucky, or killing a hero and some troops if I am not, unless I have some level 3 or 4 in my army. So the Chaos Spawn are not the concern. Same scenario with earth and 2 tremors in a row. Never had bad experiances with air nodes but fire sometimes are very costly with 3 fireballs in a row.

Any thougths on that?

JSroy, you get those spell attacks like great hail only in vaults. Not at nodes.

Agreed fire node is risky with three hell hounds (there are no fire balls but combustion is used) - those critters are dangerous beasts. But earth elemental is not that hard to beat, esp on earth node. All you need is 3 or 4 grunts to go in and let the tremors weaken the elemental - your hero can then go in for the kill (preferably with a spell)...or you use a flyer.

Also, these were pretty much the same for both sides!! My ally also took severe injuries when capturing nodes but it had to be done.

[This message has been edited by Timelord (edited 02-03-2005 @ 03:36 PM).]

Yes, you are probably confusing nodes with magic vaults Vaults are indeed always dangerous, even if defenders are themselves weak, but nodes are not (mostly)

The eart node is most dangerous as elemental has high chance to avoid earthquake, but others are not (mud spell in awter node matters not, cosmos node has no special effects at all, air node has wind ward, but you can just do the work with meele's and combustion in fire node is not that bad either

Nodes were meant to be conquered on first 1-3 days (well may be save earth node, it can be tricky with only low level troops). When I playtested the map the only problem was lightning giant, but with weaken + poisoning attack of blade dancer it was definitevly beatable. Chaos spawns, magic servants and z-birds can not offer much resistance

I apologize for the delay... It is true my time is shorter but I would be willing to go a rematch, switched sides. Any gaming I do manage to get done, takes my mind off other pressing matters for a time.

I do congratulate Timelord and Erupted on their victory. Things could have been played differently, but they weren't and the outcome was as is.

If I should be completely unable to continue playing PBEM (I don't see this happening however, I am just limited) I will find a replacement.

Also, maybe after the rematch, I would appreciate the map Evil Roc. Despite being hard pressed early on, and at an arguable self-imposed disadvantage, I enjoyed this map.

Concerning the nodes: I actually considered challenging the Elemental, but being upon the Earth Node, with it's innate ability, I was not willing to become weakened that early. Perhaps I should. What is done is done {Note: I have always had bad experiences with Earth Elementals guarding their Nodes }

(Besides... I like to think that because i'm relatively new to PBEM, I can live and learn )

Do'Knizz
Day 32:

The end is nigh. My ally Lodis, has fallen to the foul Lightbearers, and my last desperate act seems as though it will fail. I welcome Lloth's embrace with no regrets, but my tormented soul shall swear vengeance upon passsing.

TS

Avlee -

Advancing on Do'knizz. Managed to kill his hero.

Turn sent.

So, we are all up for the rematch then!!
I would just like to change my skills to Constructor, Pacifist and Survivalist.

Maya,

Captured some belongings of Lodis.

TS

If we have a rematch I prefer everything the same except the spere Death instead of Life

Do'Knizz
Day 33:

I altered strategy a little, and destroyed one of Maya's Earth Elementals, that had taken a Drow city.
With the loss of Bogga and her troupe, little can be done except wait and provide as much harassment as I am able to the decending headmans axe.

TS

If I must play Elves {argh! } in the rematch, I would prefer all Life Spheres and Survivalist.

Maya,

...and this is two

TS

Thanks for playing Jsroy and ShadowKin, I'm looking forward for the rematch

Do'Knizz
Day of Ireful Sorrow (Day 34)

Cast to the embrace of Lloth. Expected and accepted, my soul still churns in boiling hate for the Lightbearers. Do'Knizz shall rise again!!

TS

Good game Timelord and Erupted. Let us see if Jsroy and I can indeed swing things in our favour as the Elves.
The win should be registered for WL purposes after Timelord has received the turn, and it is officially done .

We have a rematch, if JsRoy choose his skills I'll post in Evil Roc's Topic.

Darkelves,
TimeLord: Earth specialist; Constructor, Pacifist and Survivalist.
Erupted: Death specialist; Summoner, Scholar and Pacifist

VS

Elves,
ShadowKin: Life specialist; Survivalist.
JsRoy: ???

Oups...

I think I will try:
Earth specialist; Constructor, Pacifist and Survivalist.

Dont know if this is a good mixt but I think Timelord has chosen something inspiering.

I will post the preferences in ER's thread. Check your email addresses...I have written them down from memory!.

@Jsroy - The reason I chose the skills were because rmg generates start towns with builders hall only. With constructor, you can start producing bladedancers every 2 turns after the first 3 turns (to get a warhall). For elves, it might help only after you build champ guild+siege workshop (to produce druids every two turns) at town level or city level+champ guild+ masters guild (to produce IMs every two turns).

[This message has been edited by Timelord (edited 02-09-2005 @ 09:32 AM).]

Ok, then this is going to be a tough one. I never used the mass BladeDancer strategy. I think this could be another painfull one.

And you are correct, I think I will waist my skill with Constructor. Could you change this to:

Air specialist; Explorer , Pacifist and Survivalist.

Dont know about this choice, but I like trying new things rather than same old same old.

[This message has been edited by jsroy73 (edited 02-09-2005 @ 11:02 AM).]

Quote:

To tell you the truth, even I haven't except for one occasion online. In all other games where I chose this combo (online), I have always ended up with better summons or prod resources giving me a lvl3 building quickly - which of course, changed everything.

I was merely trying to say that the skills/spheres you pick should have a relevance to what you are going to do...or atleast what you plan to do.

In your opinion, if their is no shadow world, what do you think about the Shade if you compare it to the BladeDancer? Is he worth it if you consider his cost?

Also, do you know what effect has his Trail of Darkness ability?

The Shade is better than the bladedancer, of course...but only to the unwary. His phys protection is easily circumvented...and dark gifted bladedancers can dish out more damage than the shade. That said, I love the Dark Elves as a race and try to use all their units - they are all excellent ones, except for the incarnate, of course (Again, it has its own uses...especially in online games).

Shades are excellent for taking out indie garrisons and conquering structures. His phys prot+lifestealing+death strike is an awesome combination.

The Shade's biggest drawback/advantage is his Trail of Darkness. It basically shrouds the areas the Shade moves in so you cannot see it. This gives the shade away, inspite of its concealment...but it also conceals the other units in the stack from being seen. So, you know something is coming...but not exactly what.

Cool, so the TrailOfDarkness puts back patches of black hexes on the map (for the other players) around the Shade while he moves? If so, how many hexes, one on the Shade and one for every hexes around him? How far away does the blackness extend to?

Darn I wish I could play an online game to see this effect because it sounds enerving.

Anyway, so you are saying, if I am not mistaken, that a couple is fine but considering it's cost that it should not be used massivelly?

Jsroy, if you want to try out an online game, come online on GS during the evening. I will be online most of the days and definitely on weekends (my GS id is Timelord_DC)...so we can get a game going.
...and if you have a mind to, try the Dwiggs Mod. That is the rage in online gaming right now!!

There is no question of whether it should be massed or not. It all depends on the player. However, spiderqueens are preferred over shades in most of the online games I have seen. I still maintain that darkgifted bladedancers can slice up most of the lvl3 units very easily...they are one of the best lvl2 units.

You should check out some threads in the General Discussion forum where online preferences are discussed. Some indepth discussions were also made just after the patches were released.