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Topic Subject: 2010 Official 1v1 PBEM Tournament - Sign up + Rules here!
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posted 08-14-10 05:41 PM EDT (US)   
Ladies and gentleman, I am proud to announce that Heavengames will host the...

OFFICIAL 1 vs 1 PBEM TOURNAMENT 2010

SIGN UP CLOSED SUNDAY 5 SEPTEMBER (as soon as we have an even number)

You will find information and requirements regarding your sign-up for this tournament in this thread. Also, feel free to ask questions, dispute rules, etc... in here.

For news, and more fun issues regarding the tournament, please visit the Tournament News Station.

Current sign-up list
- Swolte
- Castanieda
R - Timelord
- nyarlathotep
- PawelS

- Morgul666
R W W - Bluebaby
- Oleg123
- Albinscott
- Euandor

- Henrysix
- Gryffone
- Unnapu
- The_Stranger
R - Zeldafreak

- Costa
- Thorgal
R - zelenenkiy
- Torso
- Troy Locker

- Charx
- iBobs
- Gwenio
- TheCake
R W D - Triii

- TravisII
- badborre_dk
- Lordduck
- SMUki
- Vovy

R W D - Wizardspike
R W W W D - Endurell
- Enginerd
- luke811
- Naeco

R - zrcalo
R W - Springheel
- Faler

R= Reminder
W = Warning
D = Disqualified



WHAT(FOR) IS THIS TOURNAMENT!?
This is a yearly play-by-email tournament played on small 1v1 maps here at Heavengames (the standard v1.4 rule-set). Former champions of such tournaments have been Waterfly, JWorth (guess he counts), Swolte and Costa. Winners are allowed to proudly wear the title in their sigs (see mine, below... ).

Prizes, etc... tbd.

WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS BEFORE SIGNING UP?
** On average (!), you need to be able to play at least one turn once every two days. Please note that this is a SERIOUS commitment. If there are absences longer than 7 days, you are recommended to not participate.
** You need Shadow Magic and the latest unofficial patch v1.4. installed.
** Before you sign up, you must have read, and agreed to, all the rules as posted below. We will assume you have.
** You must be of good sportsmanship. Where there are winners, there will be losers. Remember that it's a game and the main goal is to have a fun, challenging and exciting time.

If you agree/fulfill all of the former, sign up by posting in this thread and sending me (swolte at gmail dot com) your email and forum name!

WHAT ARE THE RULES AND PROCEDURES?

Rule 1 - Judges.
There will be 5 judges, consisting out of Swolte, Chowguy, Enginerd, Timelord, and Naeco.

Function of Judges:
* Exceptions and additions to any rules below can be made at the judges' discretion if situation asks for it. The rules, however, can be expected to remain relatively fixed.
* Any ambiguous dispute with the organization or opponent players may be resolved by the judges' voting where normal rules are not sufficient.
* Judges rule 'winners' in situations where games takes too long, or ambiguous situations current rules do not cover (see more guidelines below).
* Judges may request information on game progress which you are required to provide. Failure to reply to judges requests within 2 days may result in warnings, or the withdrawal of the tournament unless proper notice has been given of an absence.
* Side note: judges may also be players. In case of a conflict of interest, particular judges may not exert their rulings. Also, if the main parties involved feel the judge would have a conflict of interest, this judge will not participate. Non-playing members of the community may also be called upon as judge.

Rule 2 - Playing rules
Standard Houserules and Optional rule #2 (Migration trick) will be in effect for the tournament games. You are required and assumed to have read and understand them.
Particular maps may have addition playing rules (e.g., the banning of certain spells).

Breaking of the rules and cheating may result, depending on the severity rule-breaking, in consequences ranging from your removal from the tournament to an immediate ban from the forums.

Please do not enter this tournament if you know you are prone to cheating.

Rule 3 - Availability and reliability: The Communication Rules
You are required, and a have a responsibility, to keep your tournament game at a good pace. You HAVE TO log each turn (posting only 'ts' will do*). By not logging, you are subjecting yourself to tournament warnings, which may disqualify you (even if you have been sending turns by email on time!).

Unless notified in thread or by email to me (swolte at gmail dot com), turns should be logged on the forums once every 48 hours (at minimum!) from the last time you, or your opponent logged in the thread having sent a turn. Please be reminded that its your own responsibility to keep track of the turns in the turn thread.

If player does not comply: For the first time, the player may receive a tournament reminder if he/she is late posting and hasn't given notice. This reminder will be posted in the thread, in here, and accompanied by an email.
If a player does not respond within 24 hours to this reminder, he/she will receive one tournament warning.

Reminders will only be sent out once in a tournament for each contestant. After this, subsequent breaking of communication rules will immediately result in a tournament warning.

Not responding (in thread or by email) after a tournament warning within 48 hours may result in this player being forced to forfeit the game, and become disqualified.

Three warnings will automatically accumulate towards a disqualification.

With notice, a 7 day period of absence is allowed. Whether subsequent periods of absence are allowed will be evaluated by the judges.

If a game holds up the tournament for too long a game may be decided by a panel of judges studying the latest save-game and declaring a winner (see rule 1 - judges). This may become the case if 75% of the other tournament games are finished.

APPEALING: The communication rules are applied automatically. If you believe you had valid enough personal circumstances which did not allow you to communicate (e.g., post one message saying you will be late), you can appeal. The judges will take your reasons into account and see if the decision can be reversed. Note that previous appeals have not been very successful and your reason must prevent you from sending a single email.

Rule 4 - Password Protection

You MUST password protect your turns and you MUST send the password to Chowguy (chowguy at heavengames dot com). This is VERY important as it prevents people from accidentally opening your turns.

A guide as to how to set your password can be found here.

Rule 5 - Issues with map balance
The maps that will be used in the tournament will be down-loadable in a week (link will follow). They have been pondered over by experts and tested multiple times to make them as balanced as possible. Complete balance, and finding agreement on it, is often an illusion so we ask your understanding to keep this in mind. We urge you to check the maps out if you are concerned about balance.

Note that the maps are still subject to change before the tournament has started. Comments about them can be made to the organizers ONLY BEFORE matches on those maps start. This is your own responsibility! After this period, you are assumed to have agreed that each starting position is equally feasible.
The final maps will be uploaded at least 2 days before the matches are sent out. Under high exception will a map be retracted.

If, within reason, no agreement can be reached on a to-be-played map (at least 2 days before the match begins), a different map may be used on which you, and your opponent, CAN find agreement. Any demands resulting from map balance issues between the time period of 2 days before the map was sent out, and after that, shall be ignored by the organization.

Again, when signing up, you are expected to have inspected the maps for serious balance issues before the tournament starts.

Rules 6 - Tournament schedule: Swiss Elimination system

The first round will use a the Swiss format system which allows us to have a tournament starting with any number of contestants.

For the first round in this tournament players are randomly set up against each other. Each player will play 3 different maps and encounter 3 different opponents (thanks to Enginerd for making the excel sheet which computes this all).
A victory will get you one victory base-point, which will get you your base points. The 16 contestants who have the highest base points will go through to the second rounds.
However, many people could have 2 wins. So, after all games are played, there is a subranking based on the base-scores of your opponents. These are the Opponent-points (Opp-points). So, if you have played opponents who have won matches from other players you will have received more Opp points. The base ranking and your Opp points ranking will determine your final ranking. Note that disqualified contestants themselves will default to 0 base and 0 Opp points.

In the end, we will choose the 16 best final-ranked contestants and will do simple elimination rounds with them until the final. For round 2, the second elimination round, the highest ranked player will be paired with the lowest rank player, the second highest with the second lowest, etc... If two players have already played against each other, there will be a switch.

Resolving ties: it is possible that contestants will have the same final-rank. In those cases, we will resolve the tied rankings with those people (usually 2 or 3) in this order:
* When there is a tie between TWO contestants: If they had direct contact in a match before, this will always determine who goes first. If this doesn't resolve the tie:
* Those players who have had official tournament warnings (not reminders) will automatically fall to the bottom. If this doesn't resolve the tie:
* Add all the Opp rank scores of the players they defeated. The one with the highest score will get priority. If this doesn't resolve the tie:
* Add all the Opp rank scores of the players they lost to. The one with the highest score (who was beaten by better players) will have priority. If this doesn't resolve the tie:
- Do the same as the above two steps, but instead of Opp points, use the final rankings of the players. If this doesn't resolve the tie:
- Lastly, the judges will do a lottery.

WHAT IS THE PLAN?

Once the sign-up is closed, it will take approximately a week before the tournament will start (September):
- Feedback on the maps (and rules, if needed) will be incorporated.
- A schedule will be made depending on the amount of players.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 11-02-2010 @ 00:10 AM).]

Replies:
posted 09-11-10 11:02 AM EDT (US)     101 / 135  
OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT Communication rules are now active!


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-11-10 02:28 PM EDT (US)     102 / 135  
taunt bug happened to me countless times.
I would say from my gut-feeling it didnīt work more frequently than it did actually work.

Author of the following maps for AOWSM:
Version 1.4: DEMONWARS II (Transcendence & Immortalis)
Version 1.3: (also playable in 1.4) Gates to another World 1.4
><-><-><- Planning replaces coincidence by error. -><-><-><-
posted 09-11-10 05:10 PM EDT (US)     103 / 135  
It is known to fail with units behind walls or blocked units without clear ranged shot. Otherwise it always worked for me like magic, be it in PBEM or online

Spell check failed - not enough mana
posted 09-13-10 03:00 PM EDT (US)     104 / 135  
I will play my two remaining games on my friend's desktop if my laptop does not get fixed tomorrow.


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
posted 09-13-10 11:52 PM EDT (US)     105 / 135  
Offical Reminders
- Wizardspike
- Triii

Just so everyone knows, reminders & warnings will be accompanied by an email. Not responding to a reminder within 24 hrs will lead to a warning. No response for 24 hours after a warning means a disqualification.

Records of reminders and warnings are kept in main post in this thread.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 09-13-2010 @ 11:54 PM).]

posted 09-14-10 10:19 PM EDT (US)     106 / 135  
Official Warnings
- Triii
- Wizardspike


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-15-10 10:29 PM EDT (US)     107 / 135  
Disqualifications
- Triii
- Wizardspike

Reminders
- Endurell


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-18-10 09:29 AM EDT (US)     108 / 135  
Official Reminders
- Bluebaby
- Zeldafreak


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-18-10 10:41 PM EDT (US)     109 / 135  
Official Reminder
- Springheel


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-19-10 11:58 PM EDT (US)     110 / 135  
Tournament reminders
- Timelord
- zelenenkiy

Tournament warnings
- Bluebaby
- Endurell


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-21-10 05:09 PM EDT (US)     111 / 135  
Did not know where to put this question: Do you know already the maps selected for the next rounds?
Thanks,

U.

Use a password in your PBEM games, and contact the Game Password Keepers.
posted 09-21-10 06:08 PM EDT (US)     112 / 135  
Yes, coming up in a next TNS episode. I will also upload the latest version of The Sea of Sand then (to be used for second round).


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-22-10 10:47 PM EDT (US)     113 / 135  
Tournament warning
- Endurell (2)

Note, this is the second tournament warning. A third will automatically result in a disqualification.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-23-10 02:31 AM EDT (US)     114 / 135  
I will move my Tourney games to my friend's desktop until October 21th because my laptop has become very unstable (crashes all the time because of high temperature).


Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!
posted 09-23-10 10:33 PM EDT (US)     115 / 135  
Tournament Warning
- Springheel


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 09-26-10 03:17 PM EDT (US)     116 / 135  
My new system gave me 2 blue screens this weekend... one of them happened when the game crashed in the tourney game against Euandor, i am sorry for that.

I need to investigate the problem and check if all drivers have been set accordingly. I will do that tomorrow and hopefully i can play without creating restart messages on tuesday or even tomorrow, lets see. Sorry for the delay.
posted 09-26-10 11:35 PM EDT (US)     117 / 135  
Tournament Warning
- Bluebaby (2)

Note, another warning will automatically result in a disqualification.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 10-01-10 11:28 PM EDT (US)     118 / 135  
Tournament Disqualification
- Endurell

Its pending 48 hrs to see whether Endurell will appeal this decision, but otherwise games will go to opponents.

Edit: Endurell disqualified. All games forfeit.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-04-2010 @ 09:01 AM).]

posted 10-09-10 11:35 AM EDT (US)     119 / 135  
Tournament notification the first round will end sometime on Sunday. Players should attempt to play as much as they can before that.


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008
posted 10-10-10 09:37 PM EDT (US)     120 / 135  
ROUND 1 Final standings 2010 Singles PBEM Tournament reported for Archiving.

NOTE: THESE STANDINGS DO NOT REFLECT THE MATCH-UPs FOR SUBSEQUENT ROUND-2. ADDITIONAL RULES WILL BE APPLIED TO DETERMINE THOSE MATCH-UPS (In order to prevent players from meeting each other again).





Thanks to Timelord and Enginerd for computations and scroll graphics


Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-10-2010 @ 09:38 PM).]

posted 10-11-10 05:51 AM EDT (US)     121 / 135  
After I lose my first rounds in tournaments, I use to hold a bitter view back on what has happened. This is a matter of personality, of course, but I can't resist old habits!

I try to extract things which are important for the community, but it may take a while. Or should I make it short? - Ok, this tourney has been good exercise for me and I also found it funny how Swolte and his Muppet Knight have been jesting in the radio. The sad bottom line is, however, that in my view the concept of these tourneys, as practiced hitherto, have failed. First of all, taking part in tourney takes a h u g e chunk out of my private time and energy. In return to this I expect something, but people are fighting on unbalanced maps with an astounding level of gambling elements. Isn't really worth it, I suspect. When taking the effort and exposing myself to the ugliest attempts of my opponents to beat me, I want to do this with a good feeling that there are even chances. All 3 maps of this tourney look suspicious and are out of balance!

So was it worth it? - I say No, it wasn't worth it. I should have spent my time with other things! Cleaning the flat, for instance. I started lensing over to The Groll's faction where people gathered who happily play comfortable and never-ending games on giant maps! Yes, The Groll, The Groll .. why haven't you listened to the Groll in the first place? Now he appears to be the only wise person in this madhouse while you have to struggle with a narcissistic TNS interviewer!!

Back to the matter, it is fact that this type of tourney as practiced for two years now, appears to have only produced unbalanced and controversial maps at its foundation. It must be concluded that this pattern of hasty map production and verification is inadequate for these huge and sometimes meaningful events. Hence I conclude to regard this concept "failed" and look for something better! Obviously maps need a longer verification phase to identify and sort out their problems, and finally rendering community acceptance. As an alternative concept it could be considered to depart from the desire to have new maps with each event and instead build up a pool of generally accepted 1-1 tourney maps over time, from which maps can be drawn to perform a tourney. - Performing a map-production show and a 1-1 tourney at the same time, roughly, appears to be a too ambitious undertaking.

Ok, that was my expertise, wasn't it good? - Ay? Yes, as for myself, I announce I will refrain and retire from tyosting due to old age, mental strain and different private preferences! Cheers!

[This message has been edited by Bluebaby (edited 10-11-2010 @ 05:31 PM).]

posted 10-11-10 06:17 AM EDT (US)     122 / 135  
BB, does it not bother you that you seem to be alone in your opinion that all 3 maps were unbalanced?

Spell check failed - not enough mana
posted 10-11-10 11:42 AM EDT (US)     123 / 135  
I think it is good for the tournaments (mapmaking and PBEM) to have comments such as those from Bluebaby.
Although his statetments are sometimes radical, there is good input, like "maps need a longer verification phase to identify and sort out their problems", for upcoming events.
Just my 2 cents.

U.

Could find a translation for "tyosting", BTW.
posted 10-11-10 12:07 PM EDT (US)     124 / 135  
I disagree with Bluebaby - I'm at the "most unlucky" 17th place, but participating in the tourney was loads of fun for me.

You're right that some of the maps could be unbalanced, but I think asymmetrical maps are more fun, and it's hard to balance them. And "gambling elements" are a part of the game, and you can't get rid of them. I'd prefer if the game had less random elements, but it's not possible to change it now - the result of every attack is random. Of course the map design can affect the level of randomness, but it's not a big problem for me - it's just a game.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 10-11-2010 @ 12:07 PM).]

posted 10-11-10 12:49 PM EDT (US)     125 / 135  
I wouldn't say all the map were unbalanced. Up&Under was had a rather good balance, where every player had an equal chance of winning the game. And while you might think that Hopes End is majorly unbalanced, it's not that unbalanced, though maybe Gruumsh's faction be nerfed a little bit more too truly balance it out, just making Gruumsh's wizard sit in an outpost-with-tower in place of a village might just do it. But Oceania... It has it's balance problems, but that's not the main point why this map shouldn't be in the first round. Yes, it's a fast map, but that's only because if you got an unexperienced player against someone who's used to playing pbem's, the experienced player will win, nomatter what side he plays. This map should have had its place in round 2, because one needs to grasp the subtleties of the entire game if one wants to win while being O'Brian.

And while you might think the maps produced for the 1-vs-1 tournament are unbalanced, I would like to let you take a look at last years harvest. Most of the maps used then, were more akin to a normal design.

But never forget that to have different races means there's going to be an unbalace. That's how races work...

And for the rest, there's a huge difference between tournament playing style and epic games, competetive gaming is not always fun.

Anyhow, I myself have done exactly how I thought I would do, although I never suspected I would lose by a time-out But my main goal was not winning the tourney, nor going for the loggers title. My main goal was gathering knowledge on the how, what & why for good pbem-maps. And I must say, it worked. Next year, you'll see THE perfectly balanced map, which will be a gem to look at AND fun to play- even if you're losing - with a minimum of events (because I still don't like scripting them )

Anyhow, good luck to the remaing players!

Proud mapmaker for the UPatch team
One gas to rule them all, One gas to find them
One gas to bring them all and with the Spice we bind them
Creator of the following maps: RenaissanceEarth, RoadToHell, YeOfLittleFaith, FrostbiteDelirium, Stormy Seas
Co-creator for: CityDwellers
together with TravisII

[This message has been edited by nyarlathotep (edited 10-11-2010 @ 01:00 PM).]

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