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Topic Subject: 12 Step Guide to the Perfect Guardian Rush (+replay)
posted 05-09-06 10:39 AM EDT (US)   
(I posted this on the EA forums. I'll repost it here. I'd like to see this site drag some strategy traffic away from the over-moderated forums at Gamereplays. :-p)

This guide should help anyone become a top-20 Dwarven player. At least until everyone uses it and you end up fighting nothing but Dwarves.

I decided I'd seen enough dwarven rushes that I could probably do them pretty well. So I made a new account, "Zimbeard". It's 10/0 so far, including fights against top 100 people. First time playing dwarves since patch 1.02 came out and I'm wracking up wins every 5 minutes. (If you look at my match history, the games that appeared to take longer were actually me logging out and back in, so it would re-rate me and give me higher rated opponets.)

Simple guardian rush:
1) Send your FIRST builder towards the enemy base. Immediately.
2) Have your SECOND builder make a 100 percent mine at your home base
3) Have your SECOND builder make a barracks.
4) Have your FIRST builder make a mine near the enemy -- your mine should be out of sight, in a direction the enemy is not likely to wander in. If you're not sure how close is too close, just play it safe. It's better to walk a little further than have your mine discovered. Mine percentage doesn't really matter -- go for a 100 percent mine if it's handy, otherwise take whatever looks like a secure spot.
5) Build 3 guardians. (You should end up with 2 mines, 1 barracks and 3 guardians)
6) Pop guardians into the mine at your base
7) Pop guardians out at the mine near the enemy base
8) Switch guardians to Defensive Stance
9) Move guardians towards enemy base
10) Rally Call Guardians when they near the enemy base
11) Switch Guardians to Aggressive when attacking buildings / Switch Guardians back to Defensive when not attacking buildings

Your main focus is to destroy enemy buildings while ignoring his troops as much as possible. If he attacks with with 3 batallions, have 1 Guardian batallion attack them in Defensive stance while your other 2 move on. Worse comes to worse, engage enemy troops with 2 batallions and have the 3rd hit his buildings.

You should be able to at LEAST destroy all of his production buildings (barracks, etc). You will quite possibly be able to destroy everything he has around his fortress, including his army.

If the enemy has built far away, just attack his fortress. 3 guardians will flatten a fortress in no time.

While this is happening, you have 2 choices:
* Have your Hall of Warriors on a hotkey and keep ordering new Guardians while you fight. Pop them out 2 or 3 at a time to join the battle.
or
* Do not buy anything, focus entirely on the attack. As your Guardian attack begins to lose steam, you'll notice you have about 800 resources saved up. Buy a Forge. Hotkey it. Concentrate on the battle some more. When the Forge is done, make a battlewagon and more Guardians.

In all 10 fights, I never even got my BW into the fight before it was over.

3 Guardian Batallions with Rally Call can destroy just about anything they want before any early-game enemy force can stop them. Guardians have a boatload of hitpoints, so with Rally Call and Defensive Stance they can't be stopped. With Rally Call and Aggressive Stance, they will kill buildings in just a couple of seconds, once close in.

Remember to use Charge when your guardians make level 2, which will happen quickly as they kill buildings.

Thus, step 12...

12) Win.


I also have Zimwood (Elves), Zimdor (Mordor) and Zimgard (Isengard). This Dwarven strategy is far easier, far faster and far more reliable than any single strat from any of those teams. I actually feel bad doing it, because it's just so retardedly simple to execute but very difficult to counter.

The "best" counter is to find the mine before it's built or before the Guardians are ready. This is nearly impossible, if the Dwarf plays his cards right. He doesn't have to build it THAT close, which means it's not hard to avoid the most predictable spots.

Once the Guardians are on their way, it's really too late. They're tough enough in Defensive stance that they'll be destroying buildings before any possible force can stop them.


Suggested ways to fix the Dwarves. Pick one or more of the following:
* Reduce guardian hit points. They really have no business being that tough for only 250 resources.
* Increase Hall of Warriors build time, as was done to the Elves in v1.03.
* Increase Guardian Build time, perhaps necessitating 2 Halls of Warriors for decent Guardian output, similar to Mordor's Orc Pits.
* Move Rally Call to a 10 point power for Dwarves. Replace it with Farsight as a 5 point power. (If you choose this option, there's probably no need to do anything else.)

I have some other ideas but I think those are the best.

There's also an "Axe Thrower Rush" but I honostly haven't had as big of a problem with it. Axe Throwers already take longer than Guardians to get going and they aren't as tough.

I plan to try an Axe Thrower Rush when I play a Dwarven mirror but for every other team, the 3-Guardian rush is pretty well a guarenteed win.

Added by Bendak:

Good replay which shows the rush - thanks to dalikshan for submitting!

[This message has been edited by Bendak (edited 06-01-2006 @ 02:49 PM).]

Replies:
posted 05-09-06 10:46 AM EDT (US)     1 / 27  
An interesting strategy. I'd love to try and beat it. GIve me a ring on MSN if you want.
posted 05-09-06 11:03 AM EDT (US)     2 / 27  
Awesome ! You explained it perfectly.

Quote:

I posted this on the EA forums. I'll repost it here. I'd like to see this site drag some strategy traffic away from the over-moderated forums at Gamereplays.

Your contribution is much appreciated here, thanks alot .

A counter for this are archers, battlewagons or massive unit spam. First off KILL the mine ASAP (always search with a builder for it). Then get archers ASAP. They have a little chance of stopping the guardians. Also, place your production buildings far away from eachother, and immediatly rebuild them whenever they get destroyed. In 2v2 games (I'm only doing 2v2 at the moment), if I'm Mordor and I get guardian rushed, I just SPAM orkpits just to counter it. 5 orcpits is a good solution.
Don't forget stances too. Always use aggresive on guardians.


B e n d e r s . . . © 2004

ex SWGBH scn designer
ex BFME2H cherub
posted 05-09-06 12:05 PM EDT (US)     3 / 27  
I've begun playing Dwarves recently, so I'll try this - thanks

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posted 05-09-06 03:05 PM EDT (US)     4 / 27  
nice, i'll try it too
on WH with i can counter a guardian rush most of the time cuz they build first mine in base and rax, then build mine near my base
couldn't you build your rax close to his base in stead of a mine?

|LCN| la cosa nostra
top 20 clan
posted 05-09-06 04:13 PM EDT (US)     5 / 27  

Quote:

couldn't you build your rax close to his base in stead of a mine?

This would take longer to construct and can be done with any faction. This strategy, which is awesome, utilizes the Dwarves ability to travel through mines.

On another note, much thanks to Zimland. I've tried both the Guardian Rush and the Axe Thrower rush, and haven't been able to pull it off properly. I guess I wasn't using my stances properly. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I suppose the key is really micromanaging. Bye. I'm gonna go try this out now.


Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
posted 05-09-06 05:48 PM EDT (US)     6 / 27  
Good strategy. I've tried Guardian rushes before, but I only waited until I had 2 Guardian units before I attacked. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes.

Aeneas l BFME2 Heaven l WiC Heaven
"The most important thing is to remember to have fun! After all, what else could be the point of nuking your friends?" - Cheesewiz
posted 05-09-06 07:19 PM EDT (US)     7 / 27  
to counter tthe guardian rush use the axe thrower rush they murder guardians
posted 05-09-06 08:17 PM EDT (US)     8 / 27  
Elves are also fairly good at countering the rush, due to their excellent archers and the fact that everyone builds them in the early game. It's also really annoying to have your mine destroyed and having to haul your builder down there a second time. Not only does this cost you an extra 300 resources, but you've also lost valueable time during which you could have been slaughtering your enemy.

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
posted 05-09-06 09:00 PM EDT (US)     9 / 27  
Elven archers easily fall if you micro your troops good enough. They have good dmg, but poor armor. Use defensive stances and send one batt to take one and the other to take the other. Then use the third to destroy his rax, and then his trees and builders. Now he has no eco, no military and has to wait for a new builder. The Elves will run from your guardians, and if one runs, and the other shoots, use another guardian to take out the standing still until the rax is down.

Victor von Doom
Winner of the Boromir Award
posted 05-09-06 11:53 PM EDT (US)     10 / 27  
As a rule, whenever I'm dwarves playing against another dwarf player, I use the axe thrower rush. If the other guys uses the guardian rush, he's dead, if he uses axe thrower, then it'll be about even.

Just call me Robert.
My Massgate
posted 05-10-06 01:50 AM EDT (US)     11 / 27  
In dwarven mirrors, you should try a battlewagon rush.

B e n d e r s . . . © 2004

ex SWGBH scn designer
ex BFME2H cherub
posted 05-10-06 02:22 AM EDT (US)     12 / 27  
I tried it twice tonight. Victory in 6.5 minutes the first game.

Defeat after about an hour in the second game

I had 4 guardians in the second game - I thought I made 3, but ended up with 4. The extra delay might have given him the extra time needed to build up his troops. Then he created a maze of towers, lined with rangers, and after that it was back and forth.


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posted 05-10-06 03:13 PM EDT (US)     13 / 27  
I was 4-1 last night using this strategy. My only defeat came at the hands of an elven player who discovered my early game forward mine. I then had to send my builder down again and build another one. By this time, he had built up sufficent forces to stop my rush.

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
posted 05-10-06 03:49 PM EDT (US)     14 / 27  
if a player that's a little good finds your mine you will lose
i even won vs DREAM that way

|LCN| la cosa nostra
top 20 clan
posted 05-10-06 08:23 PM EDT (US)     15 / 27  
I find that cavalry and lorien archers can easily counter the guardians. Any suggustions?

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
posted 05-10-06 09:53 PM EDT (US)     16 / 27  
Start alternating pikes with guardians after you have the initial 3 guardians.

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posted 05-10-06 10:27 PM EDT (US)     17 / 27  
Thanks. I'll try that. Get this, I just played (and defeated) and elven player with the name of CrazyGSTRING (hope that's not against the code of conduct for any reason.)

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
posted 05-11-06 03:34 PM EDT (US)     18 / 27  
Couple additions...

I'm thinking on bigger maps, it's entirely reasonable to have your first builder stop midway to build a mine, just for money purposes. You'll still have time to get to the enemy base and build a mine and it will be getting completed right about the time you're loading up your 3rd guardian.

This not only gives you more money, it greatly reduces the chances of your mine being found before you're ready to push out 3 guardians.

For countering this attack (as non-dwarves) I'm thinking the key is to spread out buildings. Like with Mordor, I'd always do SH/OP/OP and all 3 were right next to my Fortress. Well, Fortress fire isn't worth crap against Rally Call guardians, so I build my 2 orc pits in different directions, away from my base. Not like in another part of the map, but far enough away that:
a) he might not see them if he goes straight for my fortress
and
b) when he kills one orc pit, he has a bit of a run to get to the second orc pit, if he even knows where I put it


So if he goes for my fortress, my orc pits will be safe and I can hopefully kill his guardians before he kills my fortress.

If he goes for my orc pits, the long run between pits is all the more time I have to shoot him up with orc archers and get a builder working on a new orc pit.


That's Mordor, but I think it should apply equally well to everyone. Next time I play as Elves vs Dwarves, I'm going to build my barracks out of sight and see how that works. I think it will help a lot.


Oh, when countering as Mordor, I'm thinking this might be the one time War Chant actually beats the other options. Normally I use Eye of Sauron, but as the Guardians split up to attack various buildings, your orcs have to split up to attack them and you can't Eyeball everyone. So clump your forces and when you see the Guardians coming, War Chant everyone then send them around and they'll be able to stay buffed. If the Dwarves try to fight your orcs, perfect -- defensive stance and bring in more orcs! If he tries to ignore your orcs and hit your buildings, that's great too -- aggressive stance + war chant and you'll be ripping up their backsides.


Dwarven Guardian rush is still nasty, but I think Mordor has a good chance of countering it.

posted 05-11-06 03:48 PM EDT (US)     19 / 27  
Personally, I believe that Mordor is one of the most susceptible factions to this strategy because their beginning unit is so weak and they have virtually no base defence.

Smoke Rings Award Winner
Chill with me.
posted 05-11-06 07:50 PM EDT (US)     20 / 27  
you can spam orcs out in huge quantities though very early in the game. I usually find it's enough to overwhelm any attack.
posted 05-13-06 11:32 AM EDT (US)     21 / 27  
I haven't tried a three-man Guardian rush before. Is there any difference against goblins? I can't beat them with a two-man Guardian OR Axe-Thrower rush.

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posted 05-13-06 11:36 AM EDT (US)     22 / 27  
It makes no difference. Aggresive + Poison + Bats takes care of any swordsmen. Also, by the time you have three he'll have two caves up. I know cause that my main strat.

Victor von Doom
Winner of the Boromir Award
posted 06-01-06 01:55 AM EDT (US)     23 / 27  
Stickied.

Anyone who makes a guide like this could be honoured by a sticky too .


B e n d e r s . . . © 2004

ex SWGBH scn designer
ex BFME2H cherub
posted 06-01-06 02:02 AM EDT (US)     24 / 27  
na, the mine would be too easily recognised
posted 06-01-06 11:41 AM EDT (US)     25 / 27  
i think guardian rush is the best strat against evil factions (a little too strong)because they don΄t have good archers and cavalry early on like MOTW and elves.

i prefer a 12 steps to defend against guardian rush =P

[This message has been edited by PapaLeguas (edited 06-01-2006 @ 11:42 AM).]

posted 07-03-06 04:16 AM EDT (US)     26 / 27  
I see it all to often that its getting lame. If the mine gets destroyed things start to get out of hand for dwarves.

Legolaim
Brigader General
posted 07-13-06 12:04 PM EDT (US)     27 / 27  
Lol - if you can destroy the mine near your base and kill the builder, than they're in trouble. By now you should've been able to mass a small counterattack force. If you have archers (which is probably this best way to take on Guardians with the possible exception of cavalry - though not Wargs, unless you have Uruks which are perhaps the only soldier that can try to stand toe to toe vs. Guardians, although they are inferior to Guardians), watch out for a battlewagon attack. On a large map, while you are walking across, he may have actually made a battlewagon. Battlewagon + guardian is a pretty potent combo early on in the game. Speaking of which, does poison work against battlewagons?
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