Flexi-Block for Caesar 3 - City Builders Forums

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Topic Subject: Flexi-Block for Caesar 3

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-25-04 15:21 ET (US)

Introduction

Some of you may be familiar with my Flexi-Block from Pharaoh. The basic premise behind the Flexi-Block is to have a housing block that can be altered in shape while still providing the same level of housing that it can provide in its unaltered form. That way you can bend it around and fit it to cramped terrain like Tarraco, Lugdunum, or Damascus.

The requirements for fountains (instead of water walkers in Pharaoh) makes this a smidge more tricky in C3, but it's still perfectly do-able.

Caveat

This block has not been designed for maximum efficiency or maximum population. It has been designed with the sole purpose of making a functional block that can be bent around into different shapes and still work. That said, it's still reasonably efficient and will hold 1512 people at Large or Grand Insulae level without any modifications, on any terrain (Northern, Central, or Desert).

The Basic C3 Flexi-Block

Following the convention that North is to the upper-left portion of the image, here is the Flexi-Block in its undeveloped form:

Legend

The lengthwise road segments are 16 tiles long, with 4 tile segments connecting them.

First, we add in the housing:

Then we add in the 1x1 service buildings (Doctor, Barber, Prefecture, Engineer Post):

Then we add in the temples:

And once people start moving in, you can add some gardens behind the outer houses and a road beyond that to serve as a feeder for industry and farming labor supply:

Adding a school (in between the temples) and, along the bottom, starting from the gatehouse and working leftwards, adding two markets (for redundancy), a forum, a theater, a bath, a library, and an Ampitheater, are enough to (providing you have the food and industries to support it) get the block developed to Grand Insulae (shown here with reservoir placement):

The Flexibility of the Flexi-Block

And here we come to the raison d'etre of the Flexi-Block:

Note that the Flexi-Block is curved. But it still has the same services as the original, and will still get your housing up to the same level. The trick to bending the block around into new shapes is to make sure that the interior of the block contains the same number of tiles regardless of the configuration.

The interior of the block contains 56 tiles, but I find it easier to visualize it as 14 2x2 "tiles". Like so:

As long as you maintain this same interior area of 14 2x2 "tiles," the block will work just fine. Here are some other example configurations:

The key thing to rememeber with the above examples is that these are not different housing blocks. They're all the same housing block, merely bent into different shapes.

[This message has been edited by Afterburner (edited 05-25-2004 @ 03:24 PM).]

Author

Replies:

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-25-04 16:04 ET (US) 1 / 27

The Flexi-Block Does Tricks!

Of course, if you have enough room, you can easily double up the unaltered Flexi-Block with a mirror image:

Need room for a few extra schools, libraries, and theaters to get that Culture rating up? No problem. Extend the original block by two tiles in the lengthwise direction, thusly:

Need to add a Colosseum to help your culture ratings? Add a road extension near the Ampitheater like so:

Need to get a block of Luxury Palaces to boost your Prosperity ratings and rake in the tax money? You can use the normal Flexi-Block for this purpose like so:

...and just run the hippodrome off behind the colosseum.

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 05-25-04 17:27 ET (US) 2 / 27

Bending the block into a different shape, with the same interior area, changes the block in at least one significant way: the length of the road loop changes. The original block has a loop of 40 tiles, while the bent shapes have longer loops--one is 48 tiles. A longer loop makes walker problems more likely, especially when a road extension is added.

A 48-tile intersection-free loop may not be very likely to have walker problems (other than perhaps needing 2 schools), but a 40-tile intersection-free loop is much less likely to have walker problems.

Colosseums do not affect the Culture rating.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 05-25-2004 @ 05:31 PM).]

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 08:42 ET (US) 3 / 27

Quoted from Brugle:

Right you are. However, having tested various layouts and arrangements of this block in career missions, including several bent into different shapes, it has always worked without any problems other than either moving the school around to find an optimal location or placing a 2nd school. The other walkers have always managed to provide full coverage, even with the road extension leading to the Colosseum/Hippodrome area.

Granted, I could come up with some extreme permutations of the block which would double, or even triple, the number of road tiles, at which point the block wouldn't work. But for variations of the block with only 2 or 3 "kinks," it should work. And that should be enough to let folks get some use out of it on cramped maps.

greenseng
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 10:18 ET (US) 4 / 27

I must confess that I am rather impressed by this block. But I am new to this stuff and recently arrived to the "level" where one is looking for more complicated blocks than, for example, the 6 by N-block.

I have tried to understand the ideas behind the different blocktypes and think that desirability plays a certain role in some of them. I don't really know from what point desirability counts from - if it counts from the squares that the building stands on or the squares outside it. For example a school... it has the factor -2. If we have a road just outside the school; is it the roadsegment that touches the school that has factor -2 or is it the school itself? Just a question.

Now, in your block the markets and specially the gate will probably have a negative effect on the neighbour houses. Is it still possible to put up a palace in such enviroment? How about letting the theatre and the gate change place?

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 11:21 ET (US) 5 / 27

Quoted from greenseng:

Yes, I have successfully evolved the housing nearest the gatehouse (and the markets) to Luxury Palace level on multiple maps. You just need to put down a lot of large statues on the exterior. The large statue inside the block also helps.

That said, you can certainly switch the placement of the buildings around. I know that some of the heavily engineered blocks, designed for serious efficiency, and utilizing precise knowledge of walker behavior, might break down if you move buildings around. But for the blocks I design, any 2x2 building (or 3x3 or 1x1) is interchangeable with any other, except for the school. (In the Pharaoh Flexi-Block, all 2x2 (or 3x3 or whatever) buildings are interchangeable with any of the others, including 2x2 lots of housing. This is because Pharaoh has water walkers. The fountains in Caesar 3 are more restrictive in this regard.)

So feel free to move the markets and the theaters around, or what-have-you. The only building that will give you coverage problems if you move it to a different location will be the School.

greenseng
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 15:33 ET (US) 6 / 27

Yes, schools can sometimes give me a headache. In certain placements the behaviour can be rather unpredictable (at least for me).

I think a housing block should also somehow balance the amount of people against the different "ratings", for example the culture rating. When I started to play c3 I just thought about blocks that would give me as much people as possible. Now it is more interesting with blocks that may give a possibility to hold this balance in a reasonable way. I tried to design a block myself but this block is more elegante. :-)

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 15:42 ET (US) 7 / 27

Quoted from greenseng:

Well, I confess that my Flexi-Block isn't really designed with perfect culture ratings in mind. I suppose I could dig up the data and find out how many school-age and academy-age children wind up in a block of 1512 people, and then adjust the block accordingly (and also adjust it for theater and ampitheater coverage).

Hrm...

rodrigo_braz
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 18:05 ET (US) 8 / 27

Pretty cool stuff. I have used it already five times in my current game :-), being the first time I have used designed block at all (very new to the game).

I have a few questions though. Why concentrate the markets like that? I tried placing one of them right in the middle of the temples. That way it only affects houses which are right next to temples anyway. The school could then come next to the outer market if necessary.

Also, why not place some buildings in the upper empty part to better distribute desirability?

Thanks,

Rodrigo

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-26-04 20:38 ET (US) 9 / 27

Quoted from rodrigo_braz:

I have a few questions though. Why concentrate the markets like that?

No particular reason, though it does shorten the trip made by the market buyers (who exit through the gatehouse to go buy food and such). But certainly, you can switch around the service buildings. As I mentioned above, the only one that will give you trouble is the school. And you can always double up on schools (and, in fact, may wish to do so to boost your culture rating).

Quoted from rodrigo_braz:

Also, why not place some buildings in the upper empty part to better distribute desirability?

You can do that, too, if it suits you.

However, for Plebian housing, it's not necessary. If you cover the roads with plazas, the plazas and the gardens (and the temples) will be sufficient to raise the block to Grand Insulae level. You may have to place some extra gardens near the top two corners, since those houses occasionally need better desireability.

For the missions which require higher Culture ratings, I often use the extra space at the top to stick a 2nd library and a 2nd school. If the Culture ratings aren't that high, I'll stick an oracle or two there to help with deity appeasement.

Glad to hear you're finding it useful in your current game.

[This message has been edited by Afterburner (edited 05-26-2004 @ 08:39 PM).]

greenseng
Pleb

posted 05-27-04 05:50 ET (US) 10 / 27

Ooops. Seems like my first ex of this reply disappeared in witchspace. :-) Just mention it if there suddenly would be two somehow identical replies. Probably pushed some wrong button...

Well.. I think the block is good for culture-rating. The empty space could include theaters, libraries as I think you mentioned, and some of the temples could be substituted with other buildings too. And there are other possibilities too.

I am doing the peaceful missions now and really have a need for a good block. I thought that the peaceful missions would be easier than the military but...

I am trying to come up with some block myself (still suffering from "I want to do it myself-syndrome") but of some peculiar reason I always end up with a lots of fountains. :-))) And when I saw how many buildings that could be put up just with one fountain... gee..

And one positive thing about this block is that on large or grand Insulae-level one can use it in desert-maps too.

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 05-27-04 08:05 ET (US) 11 / 27

Quoted from greenseng:

Yep. And the trick of extending the entire block by two tiles (if you have the room) gives you 6 extra 2x2 spaces to put other buildings, to really boost your culture rating in some of the later Peaceful missions.

Quoted from greenseng:

I am doing the peaceful missions now and really have a need for a good block. I thought that the peaceful missions would be easier than the military but...

The Military missions are easier than the Peaceful ones, IMHO. The only hard part about Military missions is getting enough money early in the mission to build the forts. Once you've got that down, the rest is a snap.

Quoted from greenseng:

Well, part of learning how to make your own block is using the blocks designed by others and understanding how and why they work. I used a number of blocks designed by others when I was first starting out, including the standard 7x7 and 9x9 blocks, and the "U" shaped block by (IIRC) Grumpus the Elder.

You use the blocks from other folks, you see what works, you get a feel for the rhythm of the game, and then you start experimenting.

Quoted from greenseng:

And one positive thing about this block is that on large or grand Insulae-level one can use it in desert-maps too.

Can use it on lower-level housing too, with the addition of a fountain in the gap between the outer housing. (Which you can then remove later when they've evolved to Large or Grand Insulae.)

rodrigo_braz
Pleb

posted 05-27-04 14:33 ET (US) 12 / 27

Does the gatehouse have the function of keeping the workers inside? I haven't used it, as I have not played in military maps yet (seems like that that's where they are available). I suppose there's no equivalent in pacific maps and you have to let them wander outside?

Thanks,

Rodrigo

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 05-27-04 19:37 ET (US) 13 / 27

greenseng,

The military missions have more fighting, but the peaceful missions usually have higher requirements (such as the Prosperity rating). Experience helps: players who do the military missions first and then the peaceful missions often think that the peaceful missions are easier, while players who do the peaceful missions first and then the military mission often think that the military missions are easier.

I highly recommend designing your own blocks. Getting a feel for walker behavior is crucial. After experimenting for a while, you may find that you're most comfortable with a particular type of block.

By the way, do not be too concerned with maximizing the number of people per fountain. If adding a fountain and no other staffed buildings (except for perhaps another market or two) allows significantly more people in a block, then the extra fountain is easily worth the money and workers.

rodrigo_braz,
Yes, a gatehouse allows walkers with a specific destination to pass, but blocks "random" walkers who just wander around. Gatehouses are very useful for walker control. Most "career" missions have gatehouses--only the 2 tutorial missions plus the first 2 peaceful missions (Capua and Tarraco) do not have gatehouses.

greenseng
Pleb

posted 05-29-04 06:30 ET (US) 14 / 27

Well, I have been experimenting with a block. Don't know if it is very good, but I like it (without too many logical reasons :-) ). What I can see is that if I put out the houses in a straight line then there usually are not many problems. But if I, for example, build four large insulae in a square then there may be problems to get them to Grand insulae. Problems that usually are not there if I had put them in a straight line instead. As there are desirability problems if too many houses are grouped together on all sides? Why this is the case I have no answer too. Maybe the ground itself has a certain desirability factor that can be blocked with too many buildings too tight in one area. After all, a small casa needs 16 in desirability factor (c3_model.txt) to evolve and one can wonder where these 16 comes from?

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 05-29-04 16:18 ET (US) 15 / 27

greenseng,

I just now realized that nobody answered the first question in your reply #4. I apologize.

The desirability effect of a building depends on the distance from the building. For example, the desirability effect of a school (which we typically describe as -2, -1) is -2 in adjacent tiles (the first "ring" of tiles around the school), and -1 in tiles next to them (the second "ring"). For another example, the desirability effect of a large statue (which we typically describe as +14, +14, +12, +12, +10) is +14 in the first two "rings", +12 in the next two "rings", and +10 in the fifth "ring". The desirability effect on a given tile is the sum of the desirability effects of all buildings within range (a maximum of 6 tiles). For a list of the desirability effects of all structures, see reply #15 in this Desirability thread.

The most desirable tile in a house determines whether it evolves or devolves. A small casa could get the +16 desirability it needs to evolve (to a large casa) from a combination of nearby plazas, gardens, statues, and other buildings. Nearby houses below insulae have negative desirability effects (tents are the worst). Nearby houses above insulae have positive desirability effects (large and luxury palaces are the best).

Click on a house to see why it doesn't evolve (which might be desirability, lack of a service, not having a required food or good, or no space to expand). Assuming that the problem is desirability, it isn't surprising that crowded houses don't evolve as far, since there is less room for desirable structures such as plazaed roads. For example, an infinitely long 2-tile wide row of houses with a plazaed road on both sides (or a plazaed road on one side and row of gardens on the other side) has sufficient desirability to evolve to medium insulae (without other desirability boosters), but if there is a plazaed road on only one side (and nothing on the other) then the houses couldn't evolve past small casas (and, depending on which houses merge into 2x2s, some couldn't get that far).

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 05-29-2004 @ 04:32 PM).]

greenseng
Pleb

posted 05-29-04 21:11 ET (US) 16 / 27

Thanks for the reply. It answered a lot of basic questions. Maybe rather easy questions but still so basic so one better get them right from the beginning.

It seems that I have overlooked the additive effect of the desirability components. I did an experiment and built an experiment "village" without any desirability-boosters and keeping the buildings away from the houses. And it was impossible to get them to a higher level, for example small casa. Even if all services were there they still had big problems to evolve. So I can see where I have been thinking wrong.

It is more fun to play when one has at least some basic understanding of the mechanisms in the game.

The Dreamwalker
Pleb

posted 05-30-04 11:42 ET (US) 17 / 27

Brugle says the rings around the building.
school for example -2 -1

-1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
-1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -1
-1 -2 sc sc -2 -1
-1 -2 sc sc -2 -1
-1 -2 -2 -2 -2 -1
-1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1

the 'sc' -tiles do they get desirability?

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 05-30-04 14:54 ET (US) 18 / 27

The Dreamwalker,
The 'sc' tiles (the school) in your diagram have no desirability effect from the school itself.

Nefermenu
Pleb

posted 06-08-04 11:15 ET (US) 19 / 27

Wow! I don't believe this. I haven't played C3 for ages, and now I thought I'd like to start again.

Since there are no road blocks, I thought I'd look around to see the (housing) blocks other players have designed, how they handle this.

Now, being a big fan of your Flexi-Block for Pharaoh (I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread ) I was wondering, would it be possible, could you design one for C3 too?

Can you imagine how surprised I was when I found this topic!? I was just about to write here and ask! I mean, really.

And...I remember you mentioned once that it can also be used in Zeus, with a little modification. Any chance we might see a similar topic in Zeus forum? Please? Pretty please?

Now, I'm pretty sure I can do it myself but it would be very nice to see your post

I just found this, and I haven't tried this yet, not even read it completely (have to print it out). But at least the F-B for Ph is just the thing for me, I suffer what you call a writer's block, and having something to aid me and just to get me started helps a lot.

Thanks again, you saved my day

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 06-08-04 11:57 ET (US) 20 / 27

Quoted from Nefermenu:

Now, being a big fan of your Flexi-Block for Pharaoh (I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread )

Awww. Thanks! I'm blushing! Hope you find the C3 Flexi-Block as useful as the Pharaoh Flexi-Block.

As I've played through the C3 missions, I've found that, for the most part, it is not necessary to bend the Flexi-Blocks around too much. Most of the missions have ample room to lay down a number of straight blocks. But for the missions which don't have that room, the Flexi-Block certainly comes in handy.

I would also say, after having played through most of the Peaceful missions now, with their higher culture requirements, that extending the block by two tiles in the lengthwise direction (giving you 16 2x2 "tiles" in the interior of the block, rather than 14) works just as well, and gives you plenty of room for extra schools, libraries, and theaters.

Quoted from Nefermenu:

And...I remember you mentioned once that it can also be used in Zeus, with a little modification. Any chance we might see a similar topic in Zeus forum? Please? Pretty please?

Eventually, yes.

I am currently playing through the Londinium mission, which is the second to last Peaceful mission. After that, I'll play Massilia, and after that, I will have (for the first time since buying the game in 1998) completed the entire game, both Military and Peaceful career paths.

After that, I'm going to play through Pharaoh, both the Military and Peaceful career paths. (I've completed the Military career path before, but never the Peaceful career path. I've only ever gotten as far as about 1/3rd the way through the Peaceful path of Pharaoh.) And THEN I'm going to play through the Cleopatra missions, which I have never played before at all.

And after all of that, I'll be pulling Zeus and Poseidon out of the mothballs and playing THAT all the way through.

At which point you can almost certainly expect a Zeus Flexi-Block.

(And after THAT, you can expect an Emperor Flexi-Block. )

Nefermenu
Pleb

posted 06-08-04 13:21 ET (US) 21 / 27

Dang, that takes too long

Could you hurry up please

On second thoughts, I may have to start design it myself then the Zeus F-B I mean.

Any way, it's nice to see you post again, there was a big silence and we missed you Then again, I usually read only Pharaoh forum so I may have missed your posts if you only wrote here, C3 forum

Afterburner
Pleb

posted 06-10-04 15:48 ET (US) 22 / 27

For the interested among you, I have put a file up for download which contains six cities which use the C3 Flexi-Block.

http://www.erols.com/aburner/c3flexi.zip

The cities are Tarraco, Caesarea, Valentia, Londinium, Damascus, and Lugdunum.

Londinium has a flexed Palace block (look down at the far south of the map). The rest have flexed Plebian blocks.

Don't run Lugdunum too long, though. I hadda delete all the farmland housing to get the Prosperity rating up. It'll devolve soon.

[This message has been edited by Afterburner (edited 06-10-2004 @ 03:52 PM).]

cage2x
Pleb

posted 07-28-11 21:08 ET (US) 23 / 27

I've been using your Pharaoh block and I like them. I Think I'm going to try a little Casear III this weekend but I have a question?

What about mission with out the gate-house(I think that's what it is called) Since there is no road blocks in this game; how does this block hold up in missions with out the gate house?

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 07-29-11 09:50 ET (US) 24 / 27

cage2x,
A loop (or single-ring or Flexi-) block includes a gatehouse, and therefore cannot be built when gatehouses aren't available.

cage2x
Pleb

posted 07-31-11 18:01 ET (US) 25 / 27

Thanks!

Is there any post that I can look at for housing without the gate house, I'm sort of lost on how to start my housing in this game without a road block.

Thanks!

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 07-31-11 19:27 ET (US) 26 / 27

Quoted from cage2x:
Is there any post that I can look at for housing without the gate house,

I suppose there are several, but you can probably find them as easily as I can.

Some players prefer to wing it: build stuff in what seems like a reasonable configuration, watch it carefully, and fix problems as they occur. Be prepared to build extra markets and perhaps other service buildings. If you are playing one of the early career missions without gatehouses (Capua or Tarraco), this is what I recommend. The early missions are for experimentation.

I've built several gatehouseless housing blocks around intersection-free dead-end roads. With a prefecture (except in a northern climate), perhaps an engineer post, markets, and perhaps other service buildings near the dead end, market traders will probably go by all of the houses on every walk. Market buyers will go through the block to get food and perhaps goods, farther than I prefer, but extra markets should take care of that. My Londinium (luxury palaces and small casas) and Caesaramia (grand villas and grand insulae), in the Downloads, use that type of block.

An in-between approach, which was popular soon after C3 came out, is the concentric circle (or double-ring or doughnut) housing block. A road rectangle is surrounded by 2 tiles of housing (except for 2 tiles left bare to provide a path to that road) and the housing is surrounded by another road rectangle. Service buildings (except for markets and perhaps some entertainment) are inside the inner road, and markets and perhaps some entertainment are outside the outer road. You may need extra markets, but only 1 of each service building inside the inner road should be necessary. Some players like to use these in desert climates, since houses have good fire protection.

GovernorSimulus
Pleb

posted 08-01-11 12:28 ET (US) 27 / 27

cage2x: Wile I don't have a lot of cities in the downloads section of CaesarIII Heaven right now to give some examples, I've come to put houses around every intersection so that no matter which way a service walker goes they will cover some houses. Its a tad inefficient use of service buildings, but since I'm pretty good at efficiently managing labor in all other areas, it turns out to be a good way to soak up unemployment, and the "excess" of culture buildings makes achieving 100 Culture Rating much easier without resorting to "culture parks."

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