6000 of course, 8000 would be cheating, and of course I paid for all my roads, gardens, plaza and what have you. No tricks, nothing up my sleeve. I'm not saying it's easy, as stated, it took me three tries just to come out with my pants on! The bug itself, as I explained, is easily overcome, the consquences of not being able to have a population between 200 and 300 for this particular map are troublesome. I won't give you the details on how I did it, further than I already did, as I'm afraid it would give away spoilers, but if you keep getting stuck, I can help you out if needed.
I didn't finish the map, nor by the CC of the career map itself, since I don't have a population of 10,000 (yet), nor by the CC I proposed (perfect ratings instead of the career level), and I don't intend to finish it for the moment. Maybe if someone sets a benchmark I will try to beat it. The main reason I played was to check whether the challenge as I phrased it would be feasible. It is.
So let me restate the challenge:
Valentia career map at Very hard, set difficulty to VH and replay map, then save. Starting position with 6000 Dn, gods on. (In principle we should all have the same starting position, but I don't expect the exact timing of the requests and other events depending on the reload will have a substantial bearing on the map as such. This is just being practical.)Completion Criteria:
- all ratings at 100
- population 10,000 or moreWinning Criteria:
- speed
- moneyThe second WC only applies in case of a tie on the first.
Additional rules:
- no exports
- no free builds or deletes
- no change of materials
- all requests should be complied withNotes:1. I don't recall whether in CIII personal savings from one mission carry over to the next, in case they do, none should be used here.
2. In the original proposal it said no trade, implying you are missing weapons, marble and a second wine. I don't think importing any of these would help you improve on the WC, but we could discuss the issue if someone finds out they do make a substantial difference.
3. If gifts are not allowed, favor may be the bottleneck. As the delay period in favor increase after complying with a request is (pseudo)random, that would introduce an unwanted element of chance. If everyone is aware of it, that is not a real problem, as randomness can be avoided. Again we can discuss the issue, and allow gifts. (See Notes added in editing, #9, gifts are allowed now)
4. If gifts are allowed, my guess is peace will be the ultimate bottleneck, in which case WC2 applies. Increase in peace is not subject to randomness as far as I know, but the details are far from trivial. You may check the forum for details.
5. As respect to what can be called a feature, there is no final consensus. Free roads, gardens, aquaducts and such are, use of forced walkers in open-jaw blocks IMHO is not, but it's a matter of taste entirely. In case of doubt, please discuss the issue here, so we can reach an agreement. No messing with text files, hex-editing of saves, or any other tricks, just play the game as straight as possible. I'm uncertain about the multiple blessings, I would like to ban them, but I haven't checked whether the map is feasible. If anyone has feedback, it would be appreciated. For now, multiple blessings are allowed. One other feature that might come in handy eg is the lion king defense, I don't think it would matter, but let's ban it for now. Tax/wage manipulation is banned. (See notes added in editing, #6, most features are allowed now)
The additional rules are specified to level the playing field, and make the challenge a proper one indeed. In case anyone disagrees, feel free to discuss them.
Notes added in editing:I have modified the challenge above to comply with the discussion below, and results from my own benchmark test.
6. All features are now allowed with the exception of free Roads, Aqueducts, Plazas, Walls, Gardens and Delete (if you drag the cursor over to one of the control panel buttons, you don't pay for the action), and changing materials; eg oil from clay (if you replace a potter with an oil workshop when the clay delivery is on its way, oil will be produced as if olives were delivered, same with any two other primary and secondary products).
7. I'm still uncertain about tax/wage manipulation. I haven't tested whether it makes a crucial difference on the challenge. Frankly I guess it doesn't, so I'll allow it, but if anyone can show it does, we might agree to ban it. Just make sure we play an even match.
8. Any feature used unintentionally is allowed, if you happen to place some gardens for free, which can occur when you're building close to the edge of the screen, you do not have to replay the mission. If a wood delivery occurs to a wine workshop, let's just assume they needed it to fix a broken barrel. Cheers!
9. Gifts are allowed, you will need one to finish at least. I used just this single last gift, and made sure to max favour increase and minimize decrease. I have changed the requirement to meeting all requests, including the request for an army, though you may be late, or unsuccessful. Again if anyone proves it makes a crucial difference for the challenge, we might ban all but the final gift.
10. For clarification: speed is measured in months, and decided by the date of the save in which all CC are met, or the occurence of the victory screen, whichever comes last. Money is measured as the treasury as reported by the overseer in the save or just after the victory screen, whichever is lower. Note that meeting the population requirement and the career rating requirements will give you the victory screen, after which you have a maximum of another five years to meet the CC and save. You can withhold victory eg by keeping your population below 10,000, or culture rating below the required level. Note that an update of the latter may occur only in the month after the actual requirements have been met.
The benchmark so far is set by myself at April 41BC, I'll keep an updated list at this post of other entries. Anybody interested in the final saves should check the download section, or contact the player directly.
Ranking:1. Brugle Jan 48 BC, 754669 Dn, perfect ratings, no debt, no rescue gift
2. Naghite Feb 48 BC, 108 kDn, perfect ratings, no debt, no rescue gift
3. Goonsquad, March 48BC, Money ? (perfect ratings, no debt, no rescue gift)
4. Joshofet, April 41BC, Money 100kDn+ (perfect ratings, no debt, rescue gift taken)[This message has been edited by joshofet (edited 07-10-2005 @ 08:48 AM).]