Modding the Caesar III look and feel

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Crazy Caesar
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 00:47 ET (US)

Greetings All!

C3 is a great game! Kudos to the engineers at Impressions for designing such a great game that still captures minds and hearts of new comers even after such a long time.

It is my humble opinion that some of the visual elements in the Caesar III world can be modified to make the C3 experience more memorable and aesthetically pleasing.

The following are some of the items that come to my mind offhand-

Land ~ dont you think it looks like some cheap cardboard (could we replace this with something similar to that avaialable in AOE?).
Small tents ~ now these should be made to look like tents.
School ~ does not gel aesthetically with its surroundings IMHO. looks too modern.
Plazas ~ cant find a word to describe these but if i could id change these too (the word that comes to my mind now is 'yuck').
...more...

I am in love with the game and find myself with the idea that if these elements were improved or at least the process initiated we can make this great game greater!

What do you say?

Cheers,

CC

Notice: We have been receiving messages from citizens of this forum expressing interest in joining this project. Are you a citizen interested in joining this project? If yes, please enlist yourself by posting a message mentioning this and highlight your technical skill set or area of expertise. Doing this keeps our team informed of the technically skilled resource pool available to our project.

Your post could include the following details:

Greetings!

I wish to join this project. My area of expertise is this [----] and I will be able to assist our team in doing this [----].

[Member Name]

Having mentioned that let me tell you that you dont need to have a technical skill set or an area of expertise to join this project. We are happy to have you onboard just for fun. It is our pleasure.

-CC

[This message has been edited by Crazy Caesar (edited 07-09-2008 @ 10:35 AM).]

Author

Replies:

street
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 01:46 ET (US) 1 / 77

I would like to see Impressions update C3, an enhancement pack, that I could purchase to modify the existing game.

Maybe your suggestions and some more. Some of the things that come to mind for me are;

1. Statues, gardens, I like in Pharoah that I can choose out of different statues and orientation, and how about some that are symetrical, the same thing for gardens, instread of dragging and getting a predetermined style, I'd like to choose. I'd also like to be able to build parks, how about park benches, picnic tables, playground equipment, and not a predetermined 5x5 (or whatever) park, I'd like the induvidual elements.

2. The same thing for almost all of the buildings.

3. I woulld like to be able to build different shapes, to fit the terrain, maybe I need a school and don't have a 2x2 space, but a 1x4 space, Maybe two (or more) sizes af farms, a 4x4 that employs more and has a bigger yeild.

4. I would like to be able to stop staffing individual buildings, maybe they are out of materials, I am over-poducing, etc.

Are you a victim? Of anything? Become a survivor by working for change. If anyone else suffers less than I did, then my pain has served a purpose and I hurt less.

Try it http://c3modsquad.freeforums.org/!

street
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 07:53 ET (US) 2 / 77

I would like to be able to tell the Labor Advisor to priororitze say Prefects and Engineers so that they are both staffed, but neither fully.

Crazy Caesar
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 08:05 ET (US) 3 / 77

Greetings street. Thanks for your additions. Most of your suggestions require code changes which can be done only by Impressions.

It'll be great if Impressions does that. However I don't know if Impressions is interested in releasing an enhancement pack or if it could be requested to do that given the age of the game (10 years now?) and considering the fact that Caesar IV is out. They might want to put most of what they've got behind C4 and in improving C4.
So it is unlikely that Impressions will release an enhancement pack.

It there was a wish list being monitored by Impressions for C3 the thing I'd love most for Impressions to do is to make the C3 game open source (or partly open source or expose an API for selected parts of the game like UI etc..) so we can better understand the game internals and tweak the game a little to ensure that we can improve all that can be improved in the game. But now i may be day dreaming

The game is partly tweakable already by changing the contents of the C3 model text file.

In similar lines if we could edit the static images of the game like plaza, school and other static items with the help of an artist and somehow make those new edits a part of the game then we will have at least made a start in the direction of customization.

The idea is similar to that of loading a new skin to firefox.

Visual Utopia: This is our baby to take it up further.

Cheers,

CC

[This message has been edited by Crazy Caesar (edited 07-11-2008 @ 03:34 PM).]

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 12:32 ET (US) 4 / 77

I would like to see Impressions update C3

C4.

I think the terrain in both Caesar 3 and AoK are both hideous. I dont like them, but I dont think they could do too much better.

I like the terrain in Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 and 3. And I like the terrain in AoE3. So I dont know how the community could improve it. I am somewhat skilled in graphic design(somewhat again, calebs-blog-help.blogspot.com for examples[lol, sorry, didnt mean to advertise, but still

] ) and so I could help out if you want. I have no clue how the modifying works though. This would be a good comunity project!

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 13:03 ET (US) 5 / 77

4x4 Farm

I REALLY like that idea. I dont have any clue how to make it effectful,

, but I am designing a 4x4 farm right now.

I am goind to see if parts of the mill from AoK go well with the farm in C3. If not then I will check some other games for graphics such as Zoo and RC Tycoon. They may not seem like games that have graphics that coordinate with C3, but maybe some of their shops and stall do. Lol, what if I replace the wheat with hot dogs. ROFL!

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

Pecunia
CBH Seraph

posted 07-07-08 13:05 ET (US) 6 / 77

Impressions was closed by Sierra in 2004, so they won't be able to create any enhancement packs, and I very much doubt that Sierra will update any of the old Impressions citybuilders or release the source code.

With code updates ruled out, the only option left is editing the graphics. I'm currently working on a program to read the SG2 files which contain the graphics, but I don't think I'll have time to add write support to it. If anyone would like to enhance the program such that you can write new graphics to it, you're welcome. I expect it will still be a challenging task though...

Angel Pecunia | HG Downloads programmer and techie
Caesar IV Heaven | Children of the Nile Heaven | Citadel of Poseidon (Zeus/Poseidon) | The Great Wall (Emperor)

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 14:06 ET (US) 7 / 77

Somewhat done with the 4x4 farm. Check it out so far:

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

[This message has been edited by Hunnic Paladin (edited 07-07-2008 @ 02:08 PM).]

Crazy Caesar
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 15:14 ET (US) 8 / 77

Greetings All.

Nice work HP. Here are a few points that come to my mind -

The farm in the game is a continuously changing image. It seems the game is using intermediate set of images to simulate a growing farm (similar in concept to animated GIF images). Thus all the intermediate images of the farm need to be edited accordingly.

Also this larger sized farm could pose a problem in C3 maps where farmland is meager.

To remedy this

1. the farm output may be increased (proportionally taking into account the # of squares gained) as well without making the mission too easy to win. This will require tweaking the code I'm afraid. A complex if not impossible task

2. another possible alternative could be reduce the new image and use it in place of the existing image

Lets start with simple static things like small tents and the like and see if their edits work well.

The image can be edited using a hex editor. Wonder these are stored.

Thanks for your inputs Pecunia. The software that was mentioned in your reply - could you please highlight its features and what additional routines you need coding assistance with? Which programming language was used to make the software etc?

Thank you everyone for your inputs on this. This will be a big win for us if we can do this successfully!

Visual Utopia: This is our baby to take it up further.

Cheers,

CC

[This message has been edited by Crazy Caesar (edited 07-11-2008 @ 04:09 PM).]

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 16:06 ET (US) 9 / 77

Woah, woah, woah! Who said we would start!? We didnt get the other people's thoughts!

Well, even if they dont want to, Ill be a graphic designer. We should come up with a name for the project.

How 'bout, "The Mod Squad" lol

Thus all the intermediate images of the farm need to be edited accordingly.

Yes, and that will be the more difficult part. That is why I said that it is not done. But for now, I think that we should set aside the farm idea and come back to it later. For now we should just stick to re-desiging stuff.

Also, when(if) we do the 4x4 farm, it should produce about double what the original farm does. If not 20 the 25 wheat. But if we do it(in a long time) it will take a LONG time, because there are what, 5 different farms, all with 5 different stages(empty stage, sprout stage, growing stage, tall stage, and full stage) and so all together that is 25 large farm stages! It took me almost an hour just to do one farm!

reduce the new image and use it in place of the existing image

That is a good idea. I like the way I did the farm building better than the current one. The reason it took me so long to make it(I could have made it in 15 mins) was because I kept trying to get some other special graphics in the farm other than just the plain old regular stuff. I took part of the mill, some fire and smoke, and some poles from AoK, but they didnt look good. I think I should have added a scare crow.

Lets start with simple static things like small tents and the like and see if their edits work well

Start small and then get bigger. How can we improve on the small tent? Or should I say, deprove it. lol. It isnt supposed to be a nice house. Maybe once we are good enough, we could make a 1x1 palace.

The image bits can be changed using a hex editor

What is that supposed to mean? Sorry, but I have never used a hex editor, have no idea how, never seen anyone do it, rarely hear dof one, dont have one, dont plan on getting one, and dont really want one. What are you saying about it though?

I was wondering where the images of small tents and plazas are stored

I have no clue whatsoever. Does C3 have a folder where they store the images of all their building? That would be nice. I had to get my farm image out of a SS. ROFL!

So, before I start modding the small tent, what improvements should I make on it?

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

[This message has been edited by Hunnic Paladin (edited 07-07-2008 @ 04:20 PM).]

Pecunia
CBH Seraph

posted 07-07-08 16:57 ET (US) 10 / 77

Caesar 3's graphics are located in the .sg2 and .555 files in the main Caesar 3 folder. The SG2 files are just "indexes", they contain lists of images, with the width and height, image type, and so on. The actual images are stored in the .555 files, named so because the images are stored as 16-bit, with 5 bits for each of the red, green, and blue colour channels.

Quoted from Crazy Caesar:
The software that was mentioned in your reply - could you please highlight its features and what additional routines you need coding assistance with? Which programming language was used to make the software etc?

I'm writing the program in C++, using the Qt framework (open source edition). I used the same toolkit for my minimapper programs.

The current features of the program are:
- Opening a SG2 file (Caesar3) or SG3 file (Pharaoh, Zeus, Emperor) and displaying the graphics contained in them
- Saving individual graphics to PNG
- Batch-extracting multiple images (from multiple SG2/SG3 files) - I'm working on this right now

I plan to release this program as-is (after I've polished it up to 'release' quality), and then perhaps start on a new program for saving images back to the SG2 files.

Here's a screenshot with the farmhouse showing: (the farm is made up from the 2x2 farm building, plus 5 individual images for the fields, each having 5 states)

What I need assistance with: well, everything related to writing the images! Examples:

- converting an image to 16-bit
- encoding the image into one of the three available image formats (plain 2d image, isometric tile, compressed 2d image)
- figuring out how to save an image to the 555 and how to update the .sg2 if the image not the same size (bytes) as the original

Hunnic Paladin: here are the original two types of small tents to get you started:

Angel Pecunia | HG Downloads programmer and techie
Caesar IV Heaven | Children of the Nile Heaven | Citadel of Poseidon (Zeus/Poseidon) | The Great Wall (Emperor)

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 17:33 ET (US) 11 / 77

Thanks for the images!

Well I have a question. When you said...

converting an image to 16-bit

I THINK I can help you there. It depends on what you mean though. Are you asking us to help you find a way that your program will convert an image to 16-bit, or do you need some of your images to be converted to 16 bit. As a metter of fact, you can simply do that with paint. lol

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

[This message has been edited by Hunnic Paladin (edited 07-07-2008 @ 05:35 PM).]

Trium3
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 17:36 ET (US) 12 / 77

Edit - oops, didn't check for Pecunia's reply before I sent.

I'm certainly no expert on graphics and I'm absolutely terrible at creating them, but I'd bet that the graphics for C3 are stored on a 'per tile' basis so that the 3x3 farm is actually 9 separate images, five of which (the growing crops) map to the same graphic (which has five different versions). A 2x2 tent is almost certainly a composite of 4 images

To disply a 4x4 farm like HP's image you'd simply need to modify the file which stores the grid which maps terrain tiles to a particular graphic so as to add another 7 'field' tiles to it. To get the game to actually place such a farm when you build it (and do things like spread desirability, obtain prefect/engineer cover from the extra tiles, etc) would require rather more meddling with the inner works.

I personally think C3's graphics are great, considering how long ago they were done. It takes considerable skill to create the impression of so much detail (such as you see in, for example, a granary) when you have relatively few pixels to play with. If you wanted to 'improve' the terrain you'd need to come up with two sets of eight graphics which will join seamlessly with each other, plus an 'overlay' set which can integrate with those and display in blocks without noticing heavy pattern repeats,
a set of tree graphics which also join seamlessly with any of the graphics which might surround them, shore-line grahics, etc etc. Then do the same for each of the other climates...

I think Pecunia has already said where the graphics are stored, but don't expect to find a nice image labelled 'wheat farm'. Expect instead to find lots of little bits of images that have to be composited (possibly having first been 'cut' from a mosaic). Furthermore, we are looking at an isometric grid here. Typically the graphic tiles will have their upper corners cut and are overlapped vertically so the tile 'behind' (ie above) is partly overlaid but shows through at those corners (which helps with the 3-D illusion). I don't know it's done that way in C3, I'm just guessing.

HP - Did you see my 'SS' (hey, I catch on quick) in the other thread? I could use some help on those buttons

[This message has been edited by Trium3 (edited 07-08-2008 @ 11:06 AM).]

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 17:52 ET (US) 13 / 77

I'd bet that the graphics for C3 are stored on a 'per tile' basis so that the 3x3 farm is actually 9 separate images

Good point, you could very easily be right. But I hope your not.

That would make it even more difficult. So, are you two(Pecunia and T3) gunna join in! C'mmon! We could use all the help we can get!

personally think C3's graphics are great, considering how long ago they were done

Of course! They are splendid for the 20th century! Lol! But thats the reason we want to edit things, so it can look better! Im anxious already!

in the other thread

Which one?

I could use some help on those buttons

What are you talking about? lol

don't expect to find a nice image labelled 'wheat farm'

Lol, I wish.

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 18:11 ET (US) 14 / 77

Caesar 3's graphics are located in the .sg2 and .555 files in the main Caesar 3 folder

How do we view them? Is that what your program is doing, allowing us to view them?

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

Crazy Caesar
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 19:15 ET (US) 15 / 77

Greetings!

Quoted from Hunnic Paladin:
How can we improve on the small tent?....So, before I start modding the small tent, what improvements should I make on it?

Perhaps the shape and color could be changed a little. This need not look real nice but a little better than the present one. Even if it looks real nice there is no harm in that. The general idea is to change anything thats ugly to make the game visuals as asthetically pleasing as possible. Talking about tents the 2x2 tents need edits too. For starters one could try Google Image search for some ideas and then move on. We can feel free to experiment with different styles. There is no such thing as 'ideal tent'

Quoted from Hunnic Paladin:
What is that supposed to mean? Sorry, but I have never used a hex editor, have no idea how, never seen anyone do it, rarely hear dof one, dont have one, dont plan on getting one, and dont really want one. What are you saying about it though?

A hex editor is a tool that helps us in editing binary data. For our discussion it can mean a tool to that helps us write a new image to the C3 files. For a detailed explanation you could go to Wikipedia. However after reading Pecunia's reply I have changed my mind. We may not need a hex editor.

Quoted from Hunnic Paladin:
How do we view them? Is that what your program is doing, allowing us to view them?

From what I have read, that is exactly what this software is doing HP. Allowing us to view the C3 images!!! All it requires now is an image resolution conversion routine and write capabilities. Am i correct in saying so Pecunia?

Pecunias software (called "Qsgreader" ?) is the *answer* to our problem. With write capabilities added to it, it should be ready for non-complex edits to the game like single tile structure modifications like small tents, plazas, prefectures, engineering building etc...

This software could verily become the foundation of our work!

Nice software Pecunia!

Now if we have the following items ready -
a. a new tent image
b. Pecunias software with write routines added

then we could conduct a simple test right away and consider if this is a worthwhile experiment and if we can take things forward to bigger and better things.

Wonder if the SG2 format is documented somewhere.

Visual Utopia: This is our baby to take it up further.

Cheers,

CC

[This message has been edited by Crazy Caesar (edited 07-11-2008 @ 04:11 PM).]

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-07-08 21:48 ET (US) 16 / 77

Well, Im not going to work on the image tonight, but Ill get on it tomorow. Im not allowed to use google ATM. Please note my sig's quote. lol. Anyway, I dont think Pecunia's done yet either, right?

Also CC, if you dont mind me asking, why is it that you boldize all the names in your posts?

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

Pecunia
CBH Seraph

posted 07-08-08 01:09 ET (US) 17 / 77

Quoted from Hunnic Paladin:
How do we view them? Is that what your program is doing, allowing us to view them?

Exactly

Quoted from Crazy Caesar:
All it requires now is an image resolution conversion routine and write capabilities. Am i correct in saying so Pecunia?

Not quite: it'll also need a GUI for adding the new images, and the current version needs some polish. And don't think we can "just" add write support: it's quite complex.

Quoted from Crazy Caesar:
I am checking out if the SG2 format is documented somewhere.

Nope, it isn't... I had to figure out all information myself

Angel Pecunia | HG Downloads programmer and techie
Caesar IV Heaven | Children of the Nile Heaven | Citadel of Poseidon (Zeus/Poseidon) | The Great Wall (Emperor)

Crazy Caesar
Pleb

posted 07-08-08 04:04 ET (US) 18 / 77

It sounds like a complex task.

In addition the game supports 3 resolutions

"1024x768"
"800x600"
"640x480"

This means there are at least 3 resolutions for each image-tile of the game?? Thus editing a single image-tile means creating 3 new image-tiles for all the mentioned resolutions and replacing them with the existing ones?? Graphics programs usually get the conversion job done but putting them back to SG2 and 555 files is tough job i think.

Cheers,

CC

[This message has been edited by Crazy Caesar (edited 07-11-2008 @ 04:14 PM).]

Pecunia
CBH Seraph

posted 07-08-08 10:14 ET (US) 19 / 77

Game resolution doesn't matter for the graphics: they're the same size in any resolution. When you're on 640x480 you just see less buildings on the screen than on 1024x768

There *are* different graphic sets for the three different climates though.

I'll try to get the reader done as far as possible tonight, and perhaps even give editing the data a try (manually, copying a plaza from Pharaoh to C3), to see how the game behaves.

Angel Pecunia | HG Downloads programmer and techie
Caesar IV Heaven | Children of the Nile Heaven | Citadel of Poseidon (Zeus/Poseidon) | The Great Wall (Emperor)

Crazy Caesar
Pleb

posted 07-08-08 10:48 ET (US) 20 / 77

I see. I've been trying to understand things but I'm no whiz at computer graphics

Cheers,

CC

[This message has been edited by Crazy Caesar (edited 07-11-2008 @ 04:15 PM).]

Trium3
Pleb

posted 07-08-08 11:04 ET (US) 21 / 77

Nice work Pecunia. You're way ahead of me. But I can fill in (I think - not fully checked) a couple more blanks on your list of terrain grid decodes:

00 80 Tile in range of reservoir
01 00 Aqueduct
20 00 Tile in range of fountain

These are not really 'terrain types', but that's what the bits mean. Makes it easy to add a 'water overlay' to my map-reader (if I decide to, that is). I notice you have an alternative way of identifying and aqueduct in your minimapper.

Quoted from Hunnic Paladin:
"in the other thread"
Which one?
"I could use some help on those buttons"
What are you talking about? lol

Oh, pay attention.

The one in the Scenario Design forum about file editing tools. I linked a SS in reply #12. I need some 32x32 graphics (2-color since they're masks) for those buttons on the right.

[This message has been edited by Trium3 (edited 07-08-2008 @ 12:13 PM).]

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-08-08 12:30 ET (US) 22 / 77

Alright, I went back and read through that entire thread. I can help you out with your buttons. Ill make them look somewhat nice. 32x32 for 12 buttons? That will be $99.99. And since your on the C3H forum, you get a special coupon for $99.99 off.

So you need these buttons::

Housing

Commerce

Government

Agriculture

Education

Entertainment

Desirability

Road

The other four I cant read. I think(pretty sure) that the blue is water and the lightning bolt is religion, but what is the red button and the 2nd button(the one that looks like a golf club)? The 2nd one that Im talking about is The one to the left of the lightning bolt.

Sorry if it is not a golf club, I cant tell because the colors run together.

Also, do you want me to keep them the same color buttons?

-HP

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

Trium3
Pleb

posted 07-08-08 13:14 ET (US) 23 / 77

Okay, HP, but if they're pants I want my discount coupon back

The colors don't matter because the user can change them himself, so they just need to be two colors, one for foreground, one for background. Button 2 is supposed to be Industry (meant to look like a factory. You see, I really need help

). The red button is Military and the blue one is Health.

Pecunia,

You talked about converting to 16-bit images. Aren't the 555's 16-bit already? Or are they packed as 15 bit values?
Or do you mean to convert 5-5-5 to HiColor (5-6-5)?

If you mean to convert a 16-bit 5-5-5 with a redundant bit, you need to determine which bit is redundant. The remaining 15 bits are 5 bits red, 5 bits green and 5 bits blue (assuming the normal order). Just put a zero bit at the end of the green component so that you have a 5-6-5 representation. The green should still have the same value since, for example, 01101 is the same proportion of 32 as 011010 is of 64. So split off the top 10 bits, shift left once, combine the result with the low 5 bits and you're done. Unless, of course, I misunderstand you.

If the channel order is different (eg rbg, grb) then you'll need to adapt the above to produce rgb.

Pecunia
CBH Seraph

posted 07-08-08 13:29 ET (US) 24 / 77

Okay, I just experimented with modding C3. First, I copied the plazas from Pharaoh into the C3 graphics files, loaded up the game, it works! Since the plaza tiles are the same size for both games, this was to be expected.

Next, I tried replacing the graphics of the grand insulae with some houses from Pharaoh. The ones from Pharaoh are less tall than the C3 houses, so the graphics data is shorter as well. During this 'mod' I discovered that the graphic data of consecutive images must be immediately next to each other in the .555 file.

This means that, when replacing a graphic with a smaller or larger one, all consecutive images must be shifted in the .555 file, and updated accordingly in the .sg2 index file.

Anyway, this screenshot of my Capua shows both the plazas and the replaced grand insulae

Trium3: thanks for those bits, I've added them to my site

Regarding the colors: most images are 24-bit color: 8 bits for red, green, and blue. We'd need to convert that to 16 (15) bit if we want to save new images to the .555 file, and that's what I meant with converting to 16-bit.

Hunnic Paladin (and others): could you keep both of the threads on topic? Discuss the buttons in the right thread please.

Angel Pecunia | HG Downloads programmer and techie
Caesar IV Heaven | Children of the Nile Heaven | Citadel of Poseidon (Zeus/Poseidon) | The Great Wall (Emperor)

hunnic paladin
Pleb

posted 07-08-08 13:46 ET (US) 25 / 77

OK, Im sorry for getting off topic. T3, Ill send you an email with info.

So, now that we know how to replace some stuff, maybe we could start by making a few diferent plazas. That would be fun.

H U N N I C ~ P A L A D I N
HP is a very nice guy who'd rather be polite and nod his head in agreement to other people's opinions, than act tough and bluntly. -Andanu Trisatya

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