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Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » Farm Efficiency

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Topic Subject: Farm Efficiency

trolgu
Pleb

posted 02-03-16 10:26 ET (US)

Hi, I�m now in the planning phase of Syracusae

As I always strive for good housing quality, I plan to have 48 Grand Insulaes to meet the population requirement of 4000.
So the minimum food production should be 12096 units of wheat and vegetables per year.
That means at least 7 wheat farms (surplus of 1340 units) and 13 vegetable farms (surplus of 380 units).
In addition I�ll need 3 olive farms to have enough oil for the houses and the 1500 export units.

From the �Time and Speed� post by catilina I�ve learned that Caesar�s calendar is like this:
1 year = 12 months, 1 month = 32 days, 1 day = 25 ticks (or hours).
Speed of normal walkers is 1 tile per 15 hours.

From Brugle�s post �C3 and Pharaoh Destination Walker Paths� I know that cart pushers are destination walkers, so they will cut corners there and back.

Now some - maybe stupid - questions

Do I have to calculate additional hours for loading and/or unloading of the wheat?
Is the tile next to the farm (where the cart pusher appears) included in the distance?
In other words, is the distance from this farm to the granary center tile = 5?

Wheat				Granary
	1	2	3

From Brugle�s post �C3 random walker start and finish points� I�ve got this picture for 3x3 buildings
(north is diagonally up-left):

.	1	2	3	.
12	3x3			4
11				5
10				6
.	9	8	7	.

I assume that this are also the start and finish points of a farm, right?

Depending on the layout some farms will have a distance to the granary of more than 16 tiles, so I have to calculate the individual efficiency of such a wheat farm (in southern provinces).
1. A cart pusher needs 15 hours for 1 tile (SP)
2. A southern wheat farm has a production rate (PR) of 1920 units per year (1 year = 9600 hours)
3. The duration for one cartload = 100 units (DU) is 100 / 1920 * 9600 = 500 hours
4. The maximum distance for maximum efficiency (MD) is DU / (SP * 2) = 500 / ( 15 * 2 ) = 16.66 tiles
5. Farm efficiency (FE) with a distance (DI) greater than 16 tiles is MD / DI %
6. Produced units of a farm with DI > 16 (PU) is PR * FE

Example: DI = 20 -> PU = PR * FE = PR * MD / DI = 1920 * 16.66 / 20 = 1600 units

Any errors?

Author

Replies:

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 02-03-16 11:16 ET (US) 1 / 6

Do I have to calculate additional hours for loading and/or unloading of the wheat?

Yes. It apparently takes 8 ticks to unload at a granary and 12 ticks to unload at a warehouse. I don't know how long it takes to unload at a workshop.

Is the tile next to the farm (where the cart pusher appears) included in the distance?

No.

In other words, is the distance from this farm to the granary center tile = 5?

No, it is 4.

I assume that this are also the start and finish points of a farm, right?

The are the same, but you can't simply infer (from my post) that the start and finish point of a farm cart pusher are the same as the start point of the farm's citizen. They just happen to be the same.

4. The maximum distance for maximum efficiency (MD) is DU / (SP * 2) = 500 / ( 15 * 2 ) = 16.66 tiles

Less, because of the delivery time. If you ignored the delivery time, you could get full production if you went 16 tiles in one direction and 17 tiles in the other direction, but the delivery time will cause lost production.

5. Farm efficiency (FE) with a distance (DI) greater than 16 tiles is MD / DI %
6. Produced units of a farm with DI > 16 (PU) is PR * FE

Those are roughly true, but actual production is somewhat less. To be accurate, you need to take into account the delivery time and the fact that a cart is generated only at specific 2 day (50 tick) intervals.

Example: DI = 20 -> PU = PR * FE = PR * MD / DI = 1920 * 16.66 / 20 = 1600 units

A wheat farm delivering 20 tiles each way to a granary spends (20+20)*15 ticks walking and 8 ticks delivering. Round the total (608 ticks) up to the nearest multiple of 50 ticks (650 ticks). Production = 1920 units * (500 ticks /650 ticks) = 1476.9 units.

philon
Pleb

posted 02-03-16 11:21 ET (US) 2 / 6

Hi trolgu,

I haven't checked your numbers in detail at at first look, they look correct.

The following is from my Caesar 3 master file:

Raw materials need to be max 33 tiles away from workshops. Workshops need to be max 66 tiles away from warehouses.
Central climate wheat farms need to be maximum 16 tiles and all other farms 33 tiles from a granary center in order not to lose production.

I recommend reading the notes page where you will find lots of useful information. HERE is the link.

-----

Update 1: On the same file, check out the page "Market Designs" between DV44:FV51 cells. It is about market and granary placement efficiency. Something similar to your topic.

-----

Update 2: THIS is a design a worked on in Excel. I use excel for Caesar 3 design. In downloads section HERE you can find a blank file I uploaded if you want to try it. If you don't have excel, try google sheets.

In that image the road access tile of each farm has a little box that shows how many tiles it is away from the wheat granary. The fruit farms don't have the distance written because there is no need to measure them because they are within 33 tiles. There is one fruit farm that has a red 17 written. That just means "don't put a wheat farm here." That was a note to myself in case I decide to move things around. I also tested 2x2 tent location and confirmed suitable locations. That's why some tents have different colours on them.

On the google sheet, if you want you can share some designs that you are working on and we could comment on that. Good luck.
-----

If you want to experiment with using Google sheets for design, you could use THIS page.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 02-03-2016 @ 11:40 AM).]

trolgu
Pleb

posted 02-03-16 14:34 ET (US) 3 / 6

WOW, what a lot of information!

@Brugle: Thank you for your accuracy and your elegant formulas - I really appreciate that

@philon: What a huge collection of information.
I was looking for something like that

It will cost me weeks to understand all that stuff

trolgu
Pleb

posted 02-11-16 09:17 ET (US) 4 / 6

With all the given info it was not too difficult to build an efficient city, thanks again to Brugle and philon

I have to admit that my ratio of planning to playing is now about 4 to 1.
Fortunately I love it to plan and then to check if everything works.
I was wondering how your ratio is?

@philon: Thanks for the designing tool, but I wrote some quick �n dirty Excel macros to compute the desirability � that�s all I need.

In Syracusae I found a reasonable layout for 24 farms, so I decided to build the needed 7 wheat, 13 vegetable and 3 olive farms and in addition 1 wheat farm that I replaced after 5 years with an olive farm.
I followed Brugle�s advice and developed the city a little bit slower.
Nevertheless all houses were full before the required peace rating (25) was reached.
AFAIR the maximum increase of the peace rating is +2 in the first 2 years and then +5.
Did you experts find a trick to speed that up in the meantime?

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 02-11-16 11:19 ET (US) 5 / 6

Quoted from trolgu:
I was wondering how your ratio is?

Even though I build slowly, I spend a lot more time planning.

Quoted from trolgu:
AFAIR the maximum increase of the peace rating is +2 in the first 2 years and then +5.
Did you experts find a trick to speed that up in the meantime?

No.

When collecting high taxes in a city that is mainly (and eventually with be entirely) good houses, adding vacant lots can cause a protester from the temporary crummy houses, causing Favor to increase 1 less in that year. Since the required Peace rating in career missions is always a multiple of 5, this can happen 4 times without causing a delay in obtaining the required Peace rating.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-11-2016 @ 11:24 AM).]

philon
Pleb

posted 02-12-16 00:15 ET (US) 6 / 6

Hi trolgu,

I spent over 90% of time planning cities, usually working in excel. But of course the planning stage depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to design some good looking blocks, it shouldn't take too long. But if you want to achieve highest population in highest level of housing for plebeians and patricians, that would take more time planning. Planning gets complicated in custom cities where you hit the 1999 buildings limit. Because excel is great when working with numbers, I really like excel for these calculations too. You can compare the numbers for different design choices side by side.

I don't have any comment about the peace rating because it isn't something I pay attention to. However because you asked for tricks, I remembered a trick about favor rating that I read about a while ago, but never actually used myself so far. When building your own map in Caesar 3 Map Editor, instead loading a blank map, if you load one of the existing city construction kit .map files and make changes on that, your favor rating will stay fixed instead dropping regularly every year. This is useful in eternal cities. I plan to use it for any custom map. In downloads section HERE you can find CCK maps that are already flattened.

[This message has been edited by philon (edited 02-12-2016 @ 00:18 AM).]

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