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Topic Subject: On Recruiters and Morale
posted 05-01-00 21:16 ET (US)   
After posting some incorrect information concerning recruiter times I guiltily spent the weekend playing around with recruiters, forts and morale. Here are some observations on replenishing military units and company morale that I would like to share with the forum.

Replenishing Military Units:

Recruiters take 9 months to generate the troops required to a complete a fort (archers, infantry, or chariots). Recruiters generate all military units at the same rate and this includes the tower sentry, which is also spawned by the recruiter. This rate assumes all weapons are available to the recruiter and workers correctly man all buildings. In addition, towers require worker access and a road back to the recruiter.

There is a definite priority or order of military unit generation by the recruiter. The order (highest to lowest) is tower sentry, charioteer, infantry and archer. So for example if you have an unfinished archer fort and then build a chariot fort and three towers, the tower sentrys will be recruited first, followed by the charioteers, and finally the archers. All military units, as previous indicated, will be generated at the same rate.

If you have incomplete forts of the same type the order of their manning is based on the fort’s distance from the recruiter. Thus if you have two incomplete chariot forts the one closest to the recruiter will be completed first.

You can change the order forts will be manned by the recruiter by sending the forts troops out in the field. Thus for example, if you have an incomplete chariot, infantry, and archer fort, you can send the chariot troops out in the field and the recruiter will switch from generating charioteers to generating infantry.

I have found that walling in the forts has no affect on the order of company generation. In fact, if the chariot fort in the last example were walled in (walls or gardens) the recruiter would still generate a chariot but when it reached the academy it would disappear. This is also true with forts of the same type. If you wall in the closer of two infantry forts the recruiter will generate the infantry but it will disappear when it reaches the academy.

Although you can remove the troops from a fort to change the recruiters order of generation there is a price to pay. And that price concerns the morale of the troops.

Company Morale:

Combat success and time away from the fort influence company morale. This discussion will only focus on morale as influenced by time spent away from the fort. But there are some generalities that can be applied to morale as affected by combat success.

Morale can be considered to be either positive or negative. In addition, within each morale category (positive or negative) there are many different levels.

Positive morale is ordered as follows (from highest to lowest): Perfect, Excellent, Extremely Strong, Strong, Very Bold, Bold, Daring, Quite Daring, Encouraged, Above Average, Average, Below Average, Quite Poor, Poor, Shaken, and Badly Shakened. The morale of each company can be found on the “Overseer of the Military” screen.

Negative morale is ordered as follows (from lowest to highest): Panicked, Terrified, Extremely Scared, Very Frightened, and Frightened.

You can successfully command companies to leave a fort only if the companies have a positive morale. When companies sucessfully leave the fort there is a 4 month grace period in which the morale does not change (assumming no combat). After the 4-month grace period the morale will drop to the next lowest level at the rate of one level per month. Example: You dispatch a chariot company with a morale level of “Strong”. Assuming the chariot company is not in combat, it’s morale away from the fort will remain “Strong” from January through April. After April the morale will drop one level to “Very Bold” in May, and one level to “Bold” in June, …

The lowest positive morale level a company can have in the field is “Badly Shaken”. If as the result of combat or if the company stays in the field for one more month it’s morale level will become negative and will drop to the lowest possible morale level which is “Panic”. A “Panic” morale level will cause the company to retreat back to the fort.

Reaching a “Panic” morale level by one company affects all troops in the field. Important: All other companies will have their morale level lowered by one, even though they are not the company that ‘Panicked”. So if there is another company at “Excellent” its morale level will automatically drop to “Extremely Strong” as a result of having one of its other companies panicking.

Companies that “Panic” must run through the negative morale cycle (Panicked, Terrified, Extremely Scared, Very Frighten, Frightened) before they reach the bottom of the positive morale cycle (Badly Shaken, Shaken, Poor, …). This is also accomplished at the rate of one morale level per month. When they reach the lowest positive level they can be successfully commanded to leave the fort.

When you attempt to move a company that is in the negative morale cycle out to the field two things happen and both of them are bad. First you will receive a message “Companies morale too low to respond”, besides receiving this message you will also have the bad fortune of having your companies morale drop further by two levels. For example, your troops negative morale is at “Very Frighten” and you attempt to move your troops out of the fort. Your morale would then drop two levels to “Terrified”. Secondly, the drop in two levels not only affects the company that was selected, but all companies. Thus, if there were other companies with a positive morale of “Above Average” their morale would drop two levels to “Below Average”.

Some interesting aspects:

1. Assuming the same skill level, there are circumstances where it may make sense to destroy a fort and start over. An example would be an invading force reaching your city in 12 months. Assuming money and material were not issues it could take nine months to generate a “Perfect” fort versus 21 months to raise the morale level of an existing fort from “Panic” to “Perfect”.

2. Realizing that trying to move troops with a negative morale to the field results in losses of two levels for all companies, it makes senses to always inquire the Overseer as to the morale of the company before you take action.

3. Assuming you are not in combat, you have a 4-month grace period before your company morale will drop a level. This grace period will allow you to move your companies into defensive positions prior to the attack without any loss of morale.

4. It also makes good sense to not allow a company to get into a “Panic” situation. This is easier said then done, but can translate into something as simple as making sure you are adequately manned when sending troops into combat.

Would appreciate comments on this subject and as to the validity of my observations.

Hope this helps

Regards,
Vriesea

[This message has been edited by Vriesea (edited 05-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Vriesea (edited 05-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Vriesea (edited 05-03-2000).]

Replies:
posted 05-01-00 23:16 ET (US)     1 / 21  
Thanks for this Vriesea

I found this very interesting, particularly that "panicked" troop will effect others in the field, and the effect that trying to get them back into the field too quickly has.

posted 05-02-00 02:24 ET (US)     2 / 21  
Vriesea,

Wow! Too much interesting information in one go! Slow down girl!

At what stage does a fort of troops run back shaking to their 'academy'?

-Kiya

------------------
-'Ptah's guiding hands can only do so much. This city needs more workers!'

posted 05-02-00 04:25 ET (US)     3 / 21  
Very interesting and valuable information, Vriesea!

Perfect analysis, and explains drastic drops of morale I have experienced in certain missions. I knew that the morale of one company can influence the morale of other somehow, but didn't have a clue to the extent and situations when it occurs. Especially the thing about attempting to command a company that can't respond is vital!

Do you know what happens when a company is panicked and completely eradicated? Does the morale of new recruits start in negative, or is it treated just like a new fort? Or does the complete eradication of one company influence the morale of others?
If it starts at normal morale, then the "Interesting aspect 1" could be even more interesting. You could manipulate a Badly Shaken company (while it still receives orders) so that all soldiers are killed instead of ordering the last few soldiers back into the fort... or if it is over the river from the fort, order it to return, which should cause its disappearance. Similarly, when you load a company with very bad morale into the transport to be brought back to where the fort is, and then don't succeed to bring it back before the morale drops into panicked, you can simply unload it on some island. In all these cases you don't have to pay for a new fort.

Should the eradication of a company influence other companies' morale, it wouldn't be good to use it during combat, but it could be used when the combat is over (as in the example with transport).

Cherub Baltic

[This message has been edited by Baltic (edited 05-02-2000).]

posted 05-02-00 08:51 ET (US)     4 / 21  
Wonderful analysis, Vriesea, do you think we can borrow this for the FAQ?

A
ngel
J
ahakemhotep
Eyrie, Pharaoh Heaven, Caesar 3 Heaven
Have you consulted the Pharaoh FAQs today?

------------------
Homage to thee, Osiris, Lord of Eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy."
-- Book of the Dead (1240 BC)

posted 05-02-00 09:33 ET (US)     5 / 21  
Vriesea,
reading the post once again in detail, I stumbled on one error, which is probably a typo only (see just before the "interesting aspects" start):

"Thus, if there were other companies with a positive morale of “Average” their morale would drop two levels to “Below Average”."

As you mentioned before, Below average is one level below Average, not two. Please, tell us which is the influence of ordering around a company with negative morale - does the morale of other companies drop by 2 levels, or by 1?
(Not that it would be such a big difference, it simply means one may not do that ... but if AJ wants to put it into FAQ, it should be clear )
Thanks!

Cherub Baltic

posted 05-02-00 10:17 ET (US)     6 / 21  
Great analysis Vriesea! This one's a keeper.

The advice about checking morale before ordering a company out of its fort is particulary useful. I can see the real world logic behind morale dropping if you order out a company with negative morale, but it seems unfair to me from a gaming point of view. If I'm going to be penalised for trying, the company should at least leave the fort. Ideally, I should get a warning that ordering the company out of the fort will lower the morale of my city's troups, and then I should get to chose to continue or cancel the order.

Thanks again.

posted 05-02-00 12:00 ET (US)     7 / 21  
Fantastic Information! Thanx much. Although I never worked it out to the detail you did, Morale was one of the early tests I did too and can confirm some of your observations.

- If a company panicks and runs back to their fort, it does cause a drop in all morale. I even had an instance where this caused a chain reaction. I had an archer company with Shaken morale from earlier skirmishes (it hadn't had time to recover) and two infantry companies. An invasion took place and I had the infantry engage the enemies while the archers hung back and provided ranged support. The battle was close but my infantry eventually broke and ran. I wasn't too upset because there were only three enemies left, and my full company of archers could probably take them. Instead, the archers suddenly turn tail and run before the enemy even got close. The only thing I could think of was that the actions of the infantry effected the archers.

- If a fort's morale is low, then all new recruits will start at that same morale. This happens even if the entire fort's soldiers have been killed. So, if you are down to only two or three troops in a fort and it is Paniced (or even Badly Shaken), it's probably better to just destroy the fort and start a new one. Naturally if the fort is half full of paniced chariots, it's more cost effective to let it rest until it's happy, but I don't hesitate about scrapping a fort of paniced archers.

------------------
Lawrence Tilly
New Hampshire AnlaShok
"We live for the code
We die for the code"

posted 05-02-00 12:35 ET (US)     8 / 21  
Queen Tetisheri - In the field, troops will retreat back to their fort when they move from the postive morale cycle to the negative morale cycle. This is caused by remaining in the field too long, or most commonly being defeated in battle.

So you would see on the overseer screen the morale level change from "Badly Shaken" (positive morale) to "Panic" (negative morale). For a company to then achieve a postive morale it must run through all levels of the negative morale cycle before entering the positive cycle.

Baltic - My unconfirmed assumptions is that the morale is attached to the fort not the company. Thus, if a company was completely eradicated in a "Panic" situation the new recruits would also come in at that negative level and have to work their way up the morale ladder. I will confirm this and also post the affect eradication has on other companies.

Also, you are right it was a typo and it has been corrected. The morale drops two levels and affects all companies if you attempt to move a company with a negative morale to the field.

Jayhawk - No problem, please post in FAQ.

Nero Would - I agree, loss of morale by all companies as a result of trying to move one with a negative morale to the field is one of those hidden aspects of the game that is not alarmed and as a result not noticed. Another one that really bugs me is not being told of a loss of Kingdom Rating as a result of a negative income at years end.

Guess that's what makes this game interesting

Regards,
Vriesea

posted 05-02-00 19:51 ET (US)     9 / 21  
Great Post, I think this should be added to the downloads section.

Octavian II
Tiberius1 on the web
posted 05-03-00 01:12 ET (US)     10 / 21  
Must have been a busy weekend , Vriesea . Thanks !
posted 05-03-00 03:42 ET (US)     11 / 21  
You can get the best information here!

Pharaoh Ptolemy

posted 05-06-00 14:15 ET (US)     12 / 21  
Very very impressive, I knew some of it, but I don't think anyones ever writen it all down before. Good Job!!!
posted 05-08-00 20:54 ET (US)     13 / 21  
Hi all,

I should have read this thread earlier. Well, after I did, I tried a new strategy for Iken (on hard).

On the Western banks, I built the walls/towers for the battlefield a bit away from the invasion points, so I could wait in my forts until I knew whether the Kushites came in the West or South. I had 2inf / 1 arch companies. However, in the hard time of the scenario, I never had all of them at full strength.

Well, ready to rumble...
When the invasions started, I shifted the archers and 1 full inf(a) to the appropriate wall. 1 half inf(b) stayed in their fort. The fighting began, and it took about 2 month until morale of inf(a) began to drop. Until then, inf(b) received another 4-5 soldiers! That's when I sent them to the battlefield.

When the morale of inf(a) dropped ceriously (poor or so), I ordered them home and replaced them with inf(b). A short time later, the Kushites usually panicked.

I think there are 3 advantages of this approach:
a) You max production of your recruiter.
b) You don't get penalties for troops leaving the battlefield. This may give your remaining companies the edge to stay.
c) You will begin your next battle at full morale.

Well, if you're outgunned, nothing will save you, I think.

Any comments?

posted 05-09-00 04:05 ET (US)     14 / 21  
Seneca:

Your post makes a lot of sense, and I'm glad to see the thread helped your success in Iken.

Your successful battle brings up two points that's not all that obvious but is extremely helpful in the military campaigns. These are:

1) Just as morale is a big factor in our troops play, it is also a big factor with the enemy (Kushites).

And the one factor you can maximize is the fact that all enemy troops will have their morale lowered one level if one of their companies "Panic".

The way you fought was to make sure that your troops were never in a "Panic" state and their morale was never lowered unnecessarly. The idea of leaving one company behind to be restocked with fresh troops was excellent. When called up they were facing an enemy that had much lower morale.

2) The 2nd point that is important to realize in military campaigns is that in most of the major battles you enter, you never fight to the end. You fight until one side is in complete "Panic". So the key is not to try and wipe out the enemy but to make them "Panic".

There have been many postings, and I have experienced it myself, where the enemy will all of a sudden "Panic" even though the remaining enemy troops out number your troops.

So if we are trying to make the enemy run in Panic you need to attack them at their weakest point (archers?), and make them panic which will effect the morale of all enemy troops.

This seems to endorse the stategy of not attacking the enemy head-on with all your troops but trying to divide the enemy, "Panicking" a small enemy company, and moving on to the next enemy company.

I have seen this strategy work in senarios where I have divided the enemy by having one company chase one of my archer companies. Then I have defeated (Panicked) the remaining company, only to see the other company also "Panic" with little combat because it has had it's morale lowered.

Well, I'm typing too much. Glad the thread helped

Regards,
Vriesea


posted 05-09-00 04:47 ET (US)     15 / 21  
Vriesea,

I suspect the rules about time spent in the field affect invading troops as well. I know that if my city is inaccessible, invaders will hang around on the opposite bank (or whatever) for several months before leaving. One might check this, but it would make sense if their starting morale stayed constant for 4 months, and then started to drop one level per month until they left.

Has anyone done any studies on how the morale of a company changes with respect to the number casualties suffered? I would think that being locally outnumbered will probably make a difference.

If I have the time and inclination, I might make some killer hippos (i.e. modify their stats) and see how my troops feel after some of them have become hippo chow. That should answer at least part of the question.

Thanks for a great post!

Jimhotep

posted 05-14-00 18:24 ET (US)     16 / 21  
Very good work, one question though, are you sure that the Recruiter trians all troops at the same speed?

In C3 I know they did not, but for Pharaoh I'm not sure.

posted 05-14-00 21:49 ET (US)     17 / 21  
Caesar Constintine:

Absolutely positive that there is no difference in the amount of time it takes to recruit a sentry, archer, infantry or charioteer.

If you are seeing differences in the time (9 months) it takes to recruit companys, there are a several things that may be happening:

1) If you are recruiting infantry or charioteers the recruiter must be stocked with the required weapontry (shield or chariot) or there will be a delay in the recruit.

2) Your military is not manned properly or has been given a low priority.

3) Wood and/or copper industry has been "turned off" thus affecting your ability to produce weapons.

4) Your towers dont't have consistant access to housing and as a result they are going in and out of service. So for example, if you are recruiting for an infantry company, and at the same time a tower is going in and out of service, then every once and a while a sentry is being recruited (sentrys have top priority) over the infantry and thus lengthening the time to recruit an infantry company. (Happens often!).

I'm sure the forum members can think of other instances that will lengthen recruiting.

Regards,
Vriesea

posted 05-19-00 12:13 ET (US)     18 / 21  
Vriesea, Great Help, That gives me the courage to test dangerous waters!
posted 01-07-02 17:56 ET (US)     19 / 21  
"Militairy morale" may be an old topic in the forum, but I read it first time today. And a question rose.
--- in a self contructed map based on Sandbox my charioters arrived in the fort straight from the acadamy with the morale "perfect", while the infantery and archers already cooling their heels in the fort for a year never rose above morale "very bold", and they went to the same academy. What do they need to feel themself as perfect as the charioteers? More time or more beer?.
I think they also needed new shoes because after winning a small battle with only one causualty during the fight, the lost abouth 12 man the compagny marching back in less than a week.
posted 01-08-02 11:03 ET (US)     20 / 21  
The initial morale and health status is best for the charioteers, then the infantry, eventually the archers. To me, they also recover a bit faster their morale losses and gain experience more easily (2 things that may be linked). On the other hand, I have barely -if ever- seen archers going above level 4 of experience, level 5 for the infantry. In Byblos I had my 6 charioteers companies shifting from level 1 to 5 or 6 in one fight, what is impossible with the other companies.

[This message has been edited by Tryhard (edited 01-08-2002 @ 11:05 AM).]

posted 08-28-02 13:14 ET (US)     21 / 21  
This gem deserves a !bump!
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