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Topic Subject: Over quota river imports
posted 09-23-01 20:49 ET (US)   
It is common knowledge that, when trading by river, the amount of exports can be somewhat greater than allowed by the annual quota(s). When enough goods are produced, extra goods are typically sold even without micromanagement, and with micromangement the amount of extra exports is considerable. But the amount of river imports can also be slightly over the quota (requiring micromanagement, most of the time).

In the past, I think I saw river imports over quota a few times, but it didn't really register. (After all, I'm usually more interested in making money than spending it.) But recently I decided to continue my "family history" with Rostja, and was thinking about maximizing limestone imports. At the same time, I was playing around with my Baki (seeing how it would work at Very Hard difficulty with an extra river trade route open) and noticed that it imported 4300 barley from Rowarty in one year. Finally the over quota imports caught my attention, the effect was reproducible, and I figured out how to do it.

It is possible to import 3 "sales" (3 or 300 units) over quota if something else can be purchased from the river trade city, and 2 "sales" over quota if not. The effect depends on the tendency of the game to import 3 docker loads (each 4 "sales") of a good when nothing else is purchased from the same city. I don't have a complete theory, so I'll just describe some ways of importing over quota. For simplicity, I'll consider importing stone when the annual quota is 40, but it should easily generalize to other goods and quotas.

To import 43 stone by river, first micromanage trade to buy 35 (or 39) stone. On the next visit by a ship from that city, allow at least 8 (or 4) more stone to be imported but nothing else. As soon as 5 (or 1) stone are purchased from the first 2 (or 1) dockers, set something else from the same city to be imported. 3 more stone will be purchased from the 3rd (or 2nd) docker, for a total of 43 in the year (followed by a purchase of the "something else").

To import 42 stone by river without buying anything else from the same city, first micromanage trade to buy 34 (or 38) stone. On the next visit by a ship from that city, allow exactly 5 (or 1) more stone to be imported. As soon as 5 (or 1) stone are purchased from the first 2 (or 1) dockers, allow at least 3 more stone to be imported. 3 more stone will be purchased from the 3rd (or 2nd) docker, for a total of 42 in the year.

I've thought about whether to consider this "cheating", and decided that I won't. After all, it can happen naturally and in some situations is occasionally unavoidable. Even without micromanagement, a good player could set up conditions that would encourage it to happen natually now and then.

In case anyone wants to use this to try for any of the speed records (mostly held by Max), I have a request: for the next week or so, try a city other than Rostja, such as North Dahshur. I'd like to have a crack at the Rostja Hard difficulty record with a nice city--all houses residences and no debt (but the bailout "gift" accepted). I'll report my results in the classic Rostja in 317 months - guide & download thread.

[Edited to fix broken link]

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 10-11-2004 @ 09:27 PM).]

Replies:
posted 09-23-01 22:42 ET (US)     1 / 8  
Hi Brugle,

I've noticed this on occasion in Rostja also (using the '39 method' but only occasionally), you may find that Max was able to achieve this a few times in his record run so you may not have as much wiggle room as you think (Maybe down to 227 months).

Good luck.

Cartouche Bee

posted 09-24-01 15:19 ET (US)     2 / 8  
Hi Brugle and CB,
I'm pretty sure, that I didn't had a 'over import quota' in Rostja. Are you sure, that it works?
posted 09-24-01 17:54 ET (US)     3 / 8  
Max,
It works for me.

Cartouche Bee,
I only imported 12 limestone from Iunet in its first year of trading, so I expect to gain only around 6 months from "over quota" imports. This is my first Rostja, and the design was affected by requiring all houses to (eventually) evolve to residences, so I wouldn't be surprised if my try is slower than those of both Max and Nerdicus. We'll see (later this week, once I get home and back to Pharaoh ).

posted 09-25-01 10:05 ET (US)     4 / 8  
Hi Brugle,
I also used it from time to time, especially when allowed imports are a limiting factor for city growth or munuments building. I recall Djedu and Byblos where I had to stockpile goods meanwhile my population was "eating" the whole quota of imports.
But I consider it as a small tip for little gain that can be used as an "extreme gaming" tool or a competition one, as it requires a lot of work (and though I love trade micromanagement).

Sure you also noticed that, when reaching the end of a Ra's blessing period for "increased trade" you still can micromanage to get nearly as many goods as during the blessing period, especially playing on the orders given to the caravans while they are within your city, moving from one SY to the other. I must admit I used this tip on some key goods I targetted but do not have a clear definition of the way to proceed. I manage caravans to deliver just a bit less then the 1500 quota for all goods before the end of the 2500 blessing period (say 1400), then I ask each of them, when they reach a SY, abrupty and for one good each, to deliver the remaining of another good to another SY. This way, I manage to be delivered 1800 to 2400 of each type of good though the quota had already been lowered back to 1,500 for one or more months. Of course, I must add that, without this micromanagement, I do not reach these high figures.

Tryhard -Uganda

posted 11-07-01 13:29 ET (US)     5 / 8  
OK, this is my new story :
I was in Actium, from where Alexandria imports 2,500 wood. Comes November, I have sold only 2,000, a boat from Alexandria just stops afar from the dock, meanwhile one from Athens is entering the map. No chance for me to sell my 500 wood before the end of the year. So I destroy my dock and build immediately one at the same place. As expected, the standing boat docks but the surprise came from the fact that this boat bought 1,000 wood instead of the maximum possible 500. The map overseer shows : wood 3,000/3,000. Comes January, the overseer says 0/2,500 as it should be. I could repeat the same event. Games are saved just before and after the event.
posted 11-08-01 13:58 ET (US)     6 / 8  
Hi Tryhard,

Over quota river exports, as you describe in reply #5, are well known. If the annual quota for an export hasn't been met then the dock will send a cart to get some, and the cart will buy 4 "normal" loads (such as 400 wood) regardless of the quota. If there are no imports to deliver then the dock will send 3 carts for exports simultaneously, allowing 12 "normal" loads to be sold even when 1 would fill the quota.

For completeness, there is one other well-known export trick. When a ship buys the maximum exports (12 "normal" loads), it is only counted as 11 on the world map. Therefore, with micromanagement, it is possible to sell 27, 38, or 54 "normal" loads (displayed as 25, 35, or 50 on the world map) when the quota is 15, 25, or 40.

posted 11-08-01 14:31 ET (US)     7 / 8  
Hi Brugle,
I got it. Pharaoh Heaven is getting very funny these times, updating the topics only from time to time. It makes me think of Ilion's message in August: he listed the most recent viruses roaming around; well, any cyber-cafe in Kampala is like a display of all the viruses you can get on Earth...
posted 02-13-02 07:30 ET (US)     8 / 8  
Hi everybody
At the beginning i had some troubles with over quota but finally it works very fine for me.
So here some more tipps:
So one ship sells only 12 (1200) units,when the year starts i set the import to only 1 good and buy from the first ship for example 900 units reed then if the goods in the storage yard i set the import for reed to of and stone to on. ( max is 300 so i set 297).
If i got 39 stones i set the storage yard with the stones to no accept and another to except stone (the delivery man trys to bring 4 units, so if you have 2 stones in you dont get 4 more)
So if the dog delivery man bring the last (40) stone to the new storage yard and the stone is in the i set the import for stones to three more and the import of another good to 800 and so the 3rd cart pusher brings 3 more stones.
Thanks to Brugle it works really fine.
koppi
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