Sound advice and I agree with your observations on Seth. I build his TC early whilst my unemployment rate is high. I will occasionally give festivals to him after that. I have found that he often smites the foe after the battle when your demoralized troops are running for home. Perhaps 'kissing up' as you mentioned is the key to getting him to do that in battle.

I too build my forts as soon as possible - beginning with archers since they make their own equipment and while the city is building up its population. I have found that if I build 1 house next to the recruiter he gets the message. As soon as he, the weaponsmith and chariot maker are fully staffed - I delete that house. I typically build all this stuff away from the city. In Toshka, for example, I built north of the dunes. Since that house will never evolve and will eventually spawn disease - I get rid of it.

As you so aptly point out, it's imperative to stockpile weapons and extra chariots. I may be imagining things but if Ptah is in the scenario - I put a temple to him close by the weapons makers. It seems to speed up arms manufacturing.

I too build towers in pairs separated by about 5 squares with a road down the center between them. (I also build two medium statues at each tower on the 'enemy side' to scare the hell out of the invaders - besides it looks neat).

I stockpile both weapons and chariots. In a typical city, I keep 1 chariot, 2 archer, and 3 infantry, garrisons.

Odd bits of statuary in the field also tends to split enemy forces but be careful not to impede your chariots.

Make your enemy come to you by all means. Try to draw him deeper into your territory. You want to fight him on ground of your choosing as much as possible. Perfect the 'ungentlemanly' art of the ambush.

Don't forget your fleet. In Empire I put one group on a transport and landed it behind the invaders. Can you say 'chopped liver'?

user maat:

Thanks for the feedback, I can't over emphasize the importance of "kissing up" to Seth in the military campaigns. It often means the difference between winning or loosing.

Your placing statues in the field is interesting as I can see where it might distract the enemy to try and destroy the statues and ignore being pelted. In C3 I used to place aquaducts in the field as a means of distraction.

By the way, I tried Baltic's procedure of creating multiple recruiters and it worked but only for archers and tower guards. I then noticed that while I was generating archers, I was not regenerating any infantry even though I had plenty of weapons and a working academy. For some reason the AI must have got confused in determining what recruiter to deliver the weapons to. Once I deleted the second recruiter eveything went back to normal and I was being delivered infantry. I seem to recall this also happening with multiple barracks in C3. Would be interested to see if others experience the similiar problems with two recruiters.

Regards,
Vriesea

To add a bit more onto Maat's post. The practice of troops appearing to the enemy's rear in real life (Airborne, Airmobile, or Amphibious) is an incredibly complex operation, but has been done several times with resounding success. (Inchon/Korea, Anzio/Eben Emael/WW2, Ormophita Plains/Cyprus to name a few) In the game, it's a little easier, but the principles remain the same. Throw the enemy off-balance, cause him to dislocate his force from what his main effort was. Division of his armies in two directions inevitably leads to confusion and counter-orders on his part. He has lost the initiative and it is now yours. You can decide where and when your counter-attack will happen.

In the end, he doesn't know which way to go - which force is the weakest or strongest. Whichever choice he makes, the other friendly force out of contact with the enemy will be able to hit him from behind, or at least cut off reinforcements. When you've got arrows coming at you from 2 directions, there aren't too many safe places to hide.

Make 'em eat copper!

Andrakhotep

"Your job isn't to die for your country - it's to make the other b****** die for his!"
-Gen. G.S. Pattonhotep, Military advisor to Pharaohs

Andrakhotep:

Good points - especially on out-flanking and dividing the enemy. One of my favorite subjects is the American Civil War. There were some really great strategic generals in that war and they often were sucessful despite being outnumbered.

Stonewall Jackson (Chancellorsville), Robert E Lee (Antietam), at times Ulysses S Grant (Vicksburg campaign) really wrote the book on knowing when and where to strike despite being outnumbered.

In Pharaoh, I have noticed that in my last two military campaigns the AI will usually send in one or two of his four divisions to attack, while keeping the other two or three of its divisions in reserve. I think it is seeing what type of resistance it meets fighting with only part of its total force.

I have found my most sucess when I have taken the initiate and attacked the reserves while defending against the first attack.

I will usually attack the reserves with an archer division and just keep out of the enemys reach forcing it away from the initial attack. My observation is that it really throws the AI off beause he cannot wait and see how his initial attacking force is doing.

In addition, If you are successful in repelling the first attack those troops can now be used to attack the reserves from the back. It has worked well for me especially when used in conjuction with walls and towers.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Vriesea

Vriesea, do you mind if I pop that post in the strat section - it'll be useful as a guide for people who get stuck on the military path. It'd be a shame to see it disappear into the lower reaches of the forum.

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Angel Reckless Rodent
Caesar III Heaven & Pharaoh Heaven
reck@heavengames.com

This may sound funny, but I have never been able to benefit from Seth in my whole Pharaoh career, which is now at Sawu. He promises me to strike down enemies and to protect my soldiers in far off lands but so far he hasn't done so. Maybe it's because I've been playing on normal.
Da Pharaoher
From the Field of Reeds

My first real Seth bonus was, Timna, I think? The one in the Sinai? Gold mines and gems?

Anyway, I was playing normal and I got the message about a year ahead of time. I sent my troops to various points around the map right away. By the time the enemy got there, my troops were cowering in the forts. I had about 40 promises from Seth all lined up.

Boom! Half the invaders drop over dead. Bang! There go a bunch more. Crash! Bye-bye. Kapow! One little enemy left. Zap! Done. Made me wonder why I even bothered with troops.

In later missions, the Seth bonus never happened. Makes me wonder if he only defends you if you are basically defenseless.

As for defending in far away lands, I think it was Baki on Very Hard that I sent 1 full company and one 7 man company of chariots to one request. They all died. A while later, my computer dropped out to the BSOD. I reloaded and played it out, this time I had 1 and 10 to send, but Seth and I were on a first name basis. I lost 2 troops in each company.

I just got to Dunqul Oasis. Early Seth TC and placing my archer forts near the kingdom road where migrants and trade caravans enter the city cleared up the problems with people getting slaughtered before they even got to their new homes.
I haven't experienced the multiple wipe-out from seth yet but will try it this eve. Does massive oversupply of temples and shrines cause more frequent - or bigger - blessings ?

I have not played Dunqul. I mis-remembered on my second time through and played Dahkla again.

But my luck with Seth is spotty at best. I usually try to keep him from being irritated, but I don't go out of my way to keep him happy. One of the missions I played (don't remember which) I had blessings from Seth up the wazoo. Not only did my troops get cut to ribbons, but the invaders actually destroyed about 2/3 of my town before the policemen got the situation under control. Seth did nothing. You would think that with all those promises and benevolent with 4 or 5 ankhs would mean something, but he sat idly by. The aforementioned missions were the only ones where I am certain that Seth did anything. Most of the time, I feel he is just a waste of perfectly good debens, since it seems that even on Very Hard there are few contests in which your armies simply have no chance without the blessings.

Although you have to honor Seth, and I do so throughout the game, it is important and necessary that you supplement his blessing with a good military environment. Seth's blessings make it easier but walls, towers, infantry and the proper strategy make the military campaigns a lot more interesting and fun.

Concerning homage to Seth, what has worked for me, and I think what is the key, is you have to go out of your way and honor Seth early on and often in the game.

At this pass through I am playing all my games on normal and have had very good degrees of success by making sure there are always blue ankhs by his name. I will throw common festivals every 6 to 8 months and the majority will be in Seth's honor.

In addition, I do not just stop honoring Seth when I receive his blessing. I will continue and sometimes receive it several times prior to the next battle. In fact, I cannot remember one battle in my last campaign (Iken) where he did not strike down enemy troops.

In Pharaoh the key to success is doing all the right things not just one thing good.

Jezz, now I really look forward to the military campaigns.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Vriesea

I have my own little strategy, that might be mentioned above, but i'll say it anyways!

1. The begining
As Vriesa said, build forts earlier, to avoid building the forts and not getting them unfilled when the enemy comes.
2. Intelligence
Know where the enemy will attack (after frist attack) even though, i am a strong beleiver in what towers and walls can do, know where they will attack!
3. Tower stage:
After knowing where they attack build a fort (a true fort, like a walled area about 15 spaces by 15 spaces! Put three forts in the middle. Ex. two infantry one archer. Put towers every five spaces (three on each side in all) gate facing the city NOT THE ENEMY!
4. Positioning
When you get the "enemy coming within month" message, try to keep some men at your forts, while positioning three companies in areas likely to be attacked. Make sure when the month is almost over use all other men in the forst and send them in the middle of your city, or your most valued area!
5. The Attack:
Now you have your military layout, positioning and you are ready to take on the enemy! If the invasion comes by sea, of course have warships attacking. While you line the coast with soldiers in small groups, like two companies together. However if it doesnt come by sea, you have better luck! As now you know where they are, instead of knowing where they will land which requires seaborne forts. (i mean really, fortresses) Now the enemy sits for about two seconds, advances forward. Hopefully your fortress is near where they came out. Use a formation like a bulls head. A center, one infantry, with two archers behind. Then have your other infantry units form "horns" or two areas which expand out of your soldier base which is the "head". If you have all six forts, then you should have one infantry company just a little away from the battle. Then meet your enemy, and do the following:
1. have your horns stay in position.
2. have that other company come near the battle
3. have the "horns" close in and box the enemy inside, so basically you out flank them.
4. The other group will stay on guard and eliminate any retreaters (who needs to be merciful to those people who try to raid your city?)

Those are my military tactics, DON'T TRY THEM IN CAESAR III, THEY WON'T WORK, UNLESS MODIFIED, i will post my C3 tactics in C3Heaven

Sincerely,
King Ramesses

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-I came up here to build a bridge, not fight a war!

Hi,
I've noticed that sea-borne enemies cause quite some fears and there are very few hints here on this thread how to deal with them ...
Like with troops, the trick is, where the map structure allows, to divide the enemy. Usually placing one or two battle ships just near enough to the enemy to send spears will lure the enemy's battle ships towards these ships. Then let your own battle ships retreat and the enemy will follow.
In the meantime, get battle ships behind the enemy and destroy the enemy's unprotected troup transporters, which is quite easy. When luring away the battle ships, these transporters will usually take a different route. If you manage to always destroy the transporters first, you may not even need troops to defend you city. Sometimes you may want to place empty troup transporters in the way to block a certain path and help dividing the transporters from the battle ships.

In many cases, the enemy battle ships retreat once their troop transporters have been destroyed. Else, their danger to the city is not that high as long as you have some ships left which can keep them busy until you manage to destroy them. Having a number of warfts may help to rebuild while the enemy attacks other ships.

Using these strategies and normal setting, throughout the regular game, not one building of my cities has been destroyed and I needed additional land-based troops in only two of the scenarios.

Have fun.

tartu:

Good observations.

What has worked for me is very similiar to what your describe. I have had good success attacking the major fleet with all but two of my ships. Those two I keep back in reserve.

And as you described usually the transports will break from the melee and try to land. At that time I will set my two remaining ships to "Seek and Destroy", or just directly attack the transports.

This tactic has worked for me in all cases.

Good gaming,

Vriesea

Well, here's a bump to an ancient thread. I found this one by way of the Strategy section. Has the military "state of the art" advanced from this in the last two years?

Now a non-specific newbie question: how do you tell what's going on in a naval melee?

My first one (naturally) came in the Behdet mission. Two Nubian warships, one transport. I had two warships, and I ordered them to attack, knowing that the transport would be their first priority. One of my warships zipped right past the enemy warships, rammed and sunk the transport. A pleasant start.

The Nubian warships did not withdraw, and I have to assume they would have trashed my fishing boats and ferries, so I engaged them. Initially there was much crunching and bashing, but soon the four craft merged into a mass at mid-river. I could no longer tell friend from foe and could no longer tell how many ships were there. I monitored my hull strength via the "1" key, and that stabilized at "Fair" and "Average." I saw one mast topple and sink, and the "1" key let me know that I still had two ships. Right-clicking the mass, I couldn't find enemy warships. After some months without apparent activity, I ordered my ships back to the wharf, and when they separated there were no remaining enemy...but until I ordered them home I couldn't tell whether the fight was still in progress.

There's gotta be a better way. Any suggestions?

Fighting against warships requires some experience to guess what is happening. Most of the time, in fact, it is better to engage one-two of yours while the others stay on the defensive closeby. When one goes back to the wharf, damaged, you send another one to attack. Or, you may have your 6 warships slightly damaged going back for a nurse while the enemy is rampaging your city.
The best way to destroy them is anyway to get them stuck under towers, using a warship you sacrifice in the "melee".
As you witnessed, something critical may be to erase the troop carriers. Or, better, to ensure that only one lands troops, enough for your ground troops to win easily while gaining one experience level.

The best way to handle naval warfare is to stay out of reach of the enemy war ships.

Get the transport down ASAP and do not get in infight with the war ships.

Your arrows will shoot a little further than those of the enemy, so let him chase you around untill they get tired.

When they stop to rest, move within firing range and pump them full of arrows, just make sure you are out of range from the enemy arrows.

This takes some time, but you will win with almost no damage to your own ships whatsoever.

Of course, as Tryhard mentions, if you can get them to stop for a rest within range of your towers, you're in great shape

I am new to this site. Have been really struggling with getting past Thinis on the "very hard" level--too few resources, too many enemys. Anyway, in frustration I finally turned to the internet and found this site. It has really helped me, and some of the posts on military matters have lead me to stumble onto a useful strategy. Perhaps it is old hat, but I haven't run across it in any posts yet.

I was reading about the power of gardens, and how almost nothing will cross them--including enemy troops. I started to use them as cheap blockades against my enemys. Then the light went on!

Seems if you have room and a favorable terrain, you can use gardens to construct a serpentine path in front and in back of 3 or 4 towers you have built (protect them with gardens of course). What you do is line a path with gardens on both sides, kind of like hedgerows along the side of a road--except you don't even need the road. Make the path meander back and forth across the firing line of your tower guards--but it cannot be a dead end (the program needs to see an open route to the other side). Sure enough when the enemy shows up he will be obliged to parade back in forth in front and in back of your towers to try to get through to your assets. Your guards will decimate him! Also those useless archers become very useful indeed if stationed just outside the serpentine and can also fire on the enemy as he is on his death march.

There are a few pitfalls you will have to work out. It seems like the towers might need to be connected to a paved kingdom road connection to become manned, and you will also have to build a small housing area for tower staffing purposes--which must be ringed in along with the towers. If you completely block the kingdom road the engineers will start blowing up your hard work, so make sure you don't do that. Also the enemy will of course look for a way to flank the maze--so this may not work if you can't block all routes except the desired one. What all this results in is that you will probably have to wait to install the last couple of gardens to complete the maze just before the invasion arrives.

Hi scottirv, welcome to Pharaoh Heaven.

Using gardens to herd enemies with non-Cleopatra Pharaoh is indeed old hat. In fact, if enemy troops are completely isolated with gardens (which is often possible unless the invasion occurs at the entry or exit point) then they won't be able to attack at all, and will eventually disappear. My guess as to why you haven't seen many posts on that tactic is that most players consider it a bug and consider using it to be cheating. The developers apparently felt the same way, since they eliminated the bug in Cleopatra (enemies can go through gardens).

Thinis is more difficult than most missions at Very Hard difficulty, as you probably know if you've read some of our Thinis threads (including my Egalitarian Thinis). But Tryhard discovered that paying the extortion makes the mission easier, as described in A new version of Thinis.

Hello, this is the first time I had something to add to information I saw in the forums

FISHING BOATS & ARCHERS: Early Anti-Naval Defense

When there is Military Activity on the Map, and Fishing, I start by placing one or two archer forts right behind the fishing wharves, as fish or game meat is always my first source of food for the quick turn arounds..

If you can't import wood yet, cause the trade route is too expensive... or you simply don't have space for a large navy with the amount of fish you want to fish..

Get one or two archer forts going near the fishing wharves, and skip building the warships early on.

At one month to battle, move your archers up behind the fishing wharves, (or on the shore leading to the fishing wharves from the sea entrance if known). Have them set on engage nearby enemies, and crammed right against the edge of the map.

When the warships arrive, they chase any traders and fishing boats in the way... While your archers get off a few shots for free. Keep the shipwright near where your archers will hang out, for some nice warship bait when the replacement boats come out... It's handy when those pesky warships are just out of archer range.

Once the archers have hit the warships, then the warships engage your archers... but the archers sink them faster on normal difficulty with thier 16 shots per volley.

WARNING: You have to bait the warships into the edge of the shore, so they are in archer range... Otherwise the warships sit out of range and pick off your archers one at a time, who just stand still and die...so you must pay attention to the battle.

I have had one and a half archer companies on normal difficulty sink a transport and two warships before the transport could land. The warships do shoot back, but my troops were always at encouraged when the battle was won.

Troop Transports not landing = Priceless!

Caprich,
Your strategy can work. Seems a bit desperate, nonetheless. Most of all, it assumes that you are not attacked by land after the sea invasion, in case the morale of your troops may reveal at a dismal low if ever your tactics did not work as smoothly as expected.Though, indeed, I realize it could be used on a map where you are allowed fishing wharves abd docks but no navy while the enemy has.

Best remains to lure the warships over the floodplain or circling islands under the fire of towers.

- Of topic as related to land attacks -
Let me quote Vriesea: "Seth doesn't Suck".

[This message has been edited by Tryhard (edited 09-14-2006 @ 09:02 AM).]

The maps I have used it on were all naval attacks.

I tried several different things on the map, usually ending with some rampaging army roaming all over my map for a year, until my poor understaffed policemen could kill them.. ><

and I lost the mission several times cause my economy was terrible trying to import too much wood too early on... till I realized I could make archers and sink them before they could land...

The main problem with the map I was working on was that I needed about half the available shoreline for fishing or my people were starving...

Then with a dock and a shipyard, and ferrys to get the reeds from the small island across the way... I had only enough space to squish in 2 warships... and I had to depend on Ptah to give the shipyard wood...

So yes, I was VERY desperate!

On military missions I still drop down a company of archers first, somewhere near the shore just in case I need them to sink a transport or two early on. If I never get a naval attack on the map, they get replaced when I have 5 other companies of useful troops.

Although this thread is quite old, I would like to submit a hint useful to me and maybe useful to other players.

When you find yourself in a military scenario, as in any other scenario, it is wise exploit the game openings. The events in the game follow some unchangeable rules due the mechanics of the game. For exemple, the enter and exit points in the scenario for imigrants, traders, ships AND enemies will be always the same, as they are determined in the map edition.

You can wait sometime until you see the enemies entering the map. After see their entrance, you now know where the attacks will come from. Repeat the mission. You may now create your defensive force there instead of build forts here and there and then make your soldiers walk too long to defend your city.

Other hint useful for me is to make larger use of towers. Knowing where the enemy comes from, I build many walls and towers in that point, in the edge of the map, so, they cannot simply walk around (in most of the cases) Only after they tear down a wall, the remaining enemy forces will fight your full army. It works good to defend land attacks.

For naval incoming, the bait/lure strategy from Caprich works fine. When you have enough wood, I think the best is to build up military docks near the entrance points of the river, even if it means to build your commercial docks far from there. It is better to delay your commerce instead of gets brutallyslaughtered by the enemy.

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^{I'm new here. I wonder what this city has to offer to a person like me!}

[This message has been edited by GalateiaFK (edited 08-14-2012 @ 02:34 PM).]

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

it is wise exploit the game openings

Some people like spoilers, others do not. (I usually don't.) Knowing what will happen in a mission sometimes makes it much easier, which I prefer to avoid.

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

the enter and exit points in the scenario for ... enemies will be always the same

No, this is sometimes false. The mission creator decides, for each invasion, whether to make it at a fixed place or to select randomly from multiple places.

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

After see their entrance, you now know where the attacks will come from.

Sometimes they will always attack from the same place, but sometimes they will not. Beware!

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

the best is to build up military docks near the entrance points of the river

No, there is little reason to put military docks in a particular place. Unlike soldiers in forts, ships don't mind staying away from their docks indefinitely. You may put the ships near the entrance points of the river (or other good defensive places), but their wharves can be anywhere (connected).

Brugle is right.
To my knowledge, Brugle never played with the editor (at least 7 years ago he said he had not). There is an option that you can select with: "random invasion point". If you have set 4 invasion points, the attack may come from any of these 4.
Reload and you will see.

[This message has been edited by Tryhard (edited 08-16-2012 @ 04:09 PM).]

Hi Tryhard,
I haven't created any missions with the editor, but I've fooled around a little.

Quoted from Brugle:

No, this is sometimes false. The mission creator decides, for each invasion, whether to make it at a fixed place or to select randomly from multiple places.

Although the sequence where the invading army will attack may vary, the number of places where they come from do not increase from the start of the mission. They also will be at the same places. Knowing all the invasion points early allows the player to make a better defence.

Quoted from Brugle:

No, there is little reason to put military docks in a particular place. Unlike soldiers in forts, ships don't mind staying away from their docks indefinitely. You may put the ships near the entrance points of the river (or other good defensive places), but their wharves can be anywhere (connected).

Although the distance from the dock does not interfere in moral, the crew of the ship gets tired. The longer it stays away from it's dock, the more tired the crew becomes. The ship becomes slower and loses combat strenght.

Besides this, placing a dock as near as possible from river entrances, your defence ships will be near the incoming attacks. So, they can sink the enemy's ships faster. It is more interesting to sink a ship as soon as possible. If the dock is too far, the enemy may attack and destroy many things before your defensive force reach their destination.

__________________________________________________________
^{I'm new here. I wonder what this city has to offer to a person like me!}

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

the crew of the ship gets tired. The longer it stays away from it's dock, the more tired the crew becomes.

No. A ship's crew becomes tired from rowing, not from waiting. My warships in Immortal Iunet were away from their docks for close to 3000 years.

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

placing a dock as near as possible from river entrances, your defence ships will be near the incoming attacks.

Wrong again, as in reply #22. The location of the docks doesn't matter--the ships can be anywhere.

Quoted from GalateiaFK:

If the dock is too far, the enemy may attack and destroy many things before your defensive force reach their destination.

Wrong again, with the same error. Ships don't need to be anywhere near their dock.