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Topic Subject: Sentiment (mood) - some numbers
posted 12-08-08 21:45 ET (US)   
I have some figures on sentiment effects. Tests were carried out in a city of 410 people living in small tents, and played at Hard difficulty. It is possible that a larger city may see different numbers, or that different difficulty settings may have effects not observed here. I'm still playing around - for now just take into account that these figures may not apply to every city.

Sentiment is represented in the game as a number between 0 (angriest) and 100 (happiest). Each dwelling in the city has its own sentiment level, which is reviewed every two weeks. The Chief Advisor reports the average sentiment level in all houses across the city, applying descriptions rather than revealing the actual numbers.

In a new city, sentiment is always 60, representing the lower end of 'pleased'. Once your city has a population the twice-monthly calculations commence, initially influenced only by the difficulty level. In a city with less than 200 population the levels are:

Difficulty Points People are...
Very Hard 50 Indifferent
Hard 60 Pleased
Normal 70 Very Pleased
Easy 80 Extremely pleased
Very easy 90 Love
On the first review after reaching 200 population all levels are downgraded by 10 points (this is what leads to people being annoyed on Very Hard) and the Chief Advidor's descriptions are adjusted accordingly. Only when your city reaches 300 population is sentiment free to rise or fall according to conditions. Until then, nothing you do affects mood and it is a waste of time throwing a festival.

Once 300 is reached, the sentiment of every house is calculated twice a month according to the aggregate effect of various influences, which may be positive or negative. The following are the main ones in a tent city -

Taxation
--------
Unlike Pharoah, tax coverage does not seem to figure in the tax/sentiment model. These figures were obtained without even placing a forum.

Tax rate Effect
0% +3
1%-4% +2
5%-6% +1
7%-8% Neutral
9% -1
10%-11% -2
12%-14% -3
15%-18% -5
19%-25% -6
Thus it appears pointless to charge, for example, 12% since 14% is apparently no worse.

Wages
-----
My tests bear out that there is no benefit to paying higher than Rome + 8. However, there does not appear to be any limit at the other end of the scale (though I didn't test where Rome had increased it's wages so my worst was Rome - 30)

Difference to
Rome rate Effect
+8 or more +4
+5 to +7 +3
+2 to +4 +2
+1 +1
0 Neutral
-1 to -3 -1
-4 to -5 -2
-6 to -7 -3
Therafter = difference/2 truncated
Unemployment
------------

Rate Effect
0%-4% +1
5%-10% Neutral
11%-17% -1
18%-25% -2
over 26% -3
No worse than -3 is encountered - even at 100%.

Festivals
---------
Festivals bring an immediate boost to your people's happiness in accordance with the following table:

Time since last festival
>12 months <12 months
Small Festival 7 points 3 points
Large Festival 9 points 4 points
Grand festival 12 points 5 points

Venus effect
------------
The blessing of Venus carries a whopping 25-point boost. It always occurs at month roll-over, but unfortunately after the sentiment review has taken place. While you'll see crime bars on houses reduce/disappear immediately it will be 2 weeks before the Chief Advisor tells you the good news.

The wrath of Venus is swift and terrible. Her minor curse instantly reduces all houses to 45 sentiment points (annoyed), with a minimum reduction of 6 points (meaning that those that were at or below 50 will fall below 45). If that's not enough, she'll reduce your health too. Her major blessing is even worse - all houses reduced to maximum 30 points (upset) with a minimum 10 point reduction (and a health penalty the equivalent of a contaminated water event)

Other effects
-------------
All the above effects apply city-wide. I am still exploring the mechanism by which sentiment in one housing sector moves a a different rate from (or in a different direction to) that in another, eg the differentiation between houses that have food and those that do not.

[This message has been edited by Trium3 (edited 10-13-2013 @ 03:27 PM).]

Replies:
posted 12-09-08 13:00 ET (US)     1 / 14  
I have removed reference above to a 'Happy Gods' effect since I now doubt the results after finding demographic changes had affected the unemployment rate.
posted 12-09-08 15:55 ET (US)     2 / 14  
This is very useful. Keep up the good work!
posted 12-10-08 09:56 ET (US)     3 / 14  
Some more info - all houses that have one food type (Small Shack to Large Insulae) receive +1 twice a month. Houses that have two or more foods (Grand Insulae upwards) receive +2 twice per month. There appears not to be an additional bonus for three foods.

Additionally, houses that have no food begin to get unhappy once they become a significant minority. Once the tent population drops below 40% of the total they suffer a 1-point deduction, but only once per month (at the month end). Below 25% this deduction becomes two points and below 10% it becomes three.

When there is high-level housing around this penalty can be has high as 6 points, but I have not yet established exactly where this additional effect kicks in, nor what percentages are involved. Furthermore, while on many maps the penalties apply equally to small tents and large tents, on some maps they seem to affect only small tents. I have yet to establish the reason for this.

As usual, all figures are based on observations and subject to revision when I see something different
posted 12-16-08 15:14 ET (US)     4 / 14  
I haven't been able to post for a few days, but all I really had to add was that the higher 'tent penalty' I mentioned appears to kick in as soon as there is a single 2-food house (Grand Insulae) on the map. The effect is to double the penalties I posted earlier, so with tent populations below 40%, 25% and 10% the penalties are 2, 4 and 6 points respectively.

I think I've pretty much exhausted all sentiment effects now. I'd be glad to hear from anyone whose observations conflict with the presented data. In the meantime there appears no reason not to tax at 8% instead of the default 7%, nor to pay any wages at all in a city of less than 300 people

I should perhaps point out that sentiment effects can be diluted by capping. It is not at all uncommon for a fair proportion of a city's houses to enjoy the maximum 100 rating while others keep the overall mood somewhat lower. If an action is taken to improve sentiment only those houses which have 'room' to accomodate the extra points will benefit. A festival, for example, can only bestow its full 7 points on houses that currently have 93 or less, so average sentiment as reported by the Chief Advisor does not necessarily rise to the expected degree.
posted 12-17-08 04:24 ET (US)     5 / 14  
(though I didn't test where Rome had increased it's wages so my worst was Rome - 30)
I believe Rome's limit to be 45 wages.
posted 12-23-08 11:49 ET (US)     6 / 14  
The following is regarding the reported sentiment when citizens are right clicked, if it is of any help:
here is the check list for "building-up" a fantastic city

- have some citizens , >500 is ok though in my small tent city 600 were needed
- stock a good food reserve: 4 months will do but 5-6 or more may be better.
- please the gods; temples/oracles suffice, you dont need to have any festivals
- give jobs to those who want them, but keep a few people unemployed
- entertain your citizens, and this means give your houses access to venues. in my test city a colliseum with 2 shows was enough, so it shouldn't be too hard providing the necessary entertainment in a normal city.
- give your houses access to a school (this is necessary to get full marks, it's not only for the comment "This city is fantastic!" )
posted 12-23-08 15:44 ET (US)     7 / 14  
Hi, Trurl, nice to see you're still around

And I hope you've been reading up on the 'random walker' threads. Your initial work on that was invaluable.
posted 03-31-09 18:21 ET (US)     8 / 14  
So when is crime? 50%?
At least somewhere in my cities is an unfortunate group of plebs who do the work of hundreds, without ever getting food, cause I can't fit a market. What makes these sometimes turn to crime, and much more strange not turn into criminals? They are a huge minority, with some lazy patricians living in luxary palaces...
Very useful info; save thousands on 8% tax and rarer festivals.
posted 03-31-09 19:37 ET (US)     9 / 14  
Hi pigsnoutman, welcome to Caesar III Heaven.

I see that you've also posted in a "Crime" thread. I think that that thread along with this one has most of the information I've seen relating to city sentiment and crime. Do you have any questions that weren't addressed in either thread?
posted 04-01-09 18:17 ET (US)     10 / 14  
Hi pigsnouman

I've replied to your post in the Crime thread to try and keep the two threads separate, but some cross-over is inevitable I suppose.

If you have an all-tent city, all that will count for sentiment pruposes are wages, tax, unemployment, festivals and Venus blessings/curses. As soon as you start feeding houses, the sentiment in those houses begins to rise faster (or fall more slowly) than sentiment in your tents. That effect is more marked in houses which enjoy 2 food types.

Further to that, as your tent population becomes increasingly marginalized, it suffers further negative sentiment effects. Those too are more marked if some houses enjoy 2 foods. So you will likely end up with disparity between happiness in tents and happiness in other houses.

The effect on city sentiment, which is an average of all your houses, will obviously be more negative if you have a greater number of tents (and it is the number of houses that count, so 4 1x1's count as 4, a 2x2 as 1). The lower your overall sentiment, the more likely it is that crime will occur. With sufficiently few tents, overall sentiment can be maintained high enough to avoid crime no matter how angry a few tents might be (a fact observed by Brugle some years back)

Since I posted the information in previous replies to this thread I have discovered that the monthly 'tent penalty' is even higher when there are three-food houses around (Grand Villa and up). I've not quantified it yet, but I was getting minus 5 in a city with a 20% tent population (I would expect -2 with one food and -4 with two)
posted 10-13-13 16:16 ET (US)     11 / 14  
As long ago as April 2009 I posted on another thread that I would update this one with some new information about the effect of Venus. I subsequently forgot all about it - I've now re-written the Venus Effect section of the OP to include this information (and to remove stuff I now know to be incorrect). While I was at it, I thought it was about time I quantified the effect of Grand Festivals, so the festivals section has been updated too.

I also finally quantified (by savagely decimating Brugle's LuxPal256 to obtain the desired tent population ratios) the sentiment penalties for tents when there are three-food houses around. Here's the full table:

Tent population under:
Max Housing Level 40% 25% 10%
Large Insulae -1 -2 -3
Large Villa -2 -4 -6
Grand Villa or above -4 -5 -6
posted 10-04-17 12:21 ET (US)     12 / 14  
When building my 1 granary Damascus, there was a protestor which I didn't expect. I investigated.

At Very Hard difficulty, with wages and taxes and unemployment set to be overall neutral towards sentiment, so houses with food should have a positive effect twice per month and tents should have a negative effect once per month. Existing tents had high sentiment, so they were fine for months. New tents were settled near the beginning of a month, and I thought that if they got food and evolved to at least shacks before the end of the month they would be OK, but sometimes they weren't.

Tents that evolve to at least shacks in the second half of the month were fine. However, tents that evolve to at least shacks in the first half of the month new houses (whether or not they evolved above a tent) sometimes had a negative effect on sentiment at mid-month, causing crime bars and a protestor! I'm calling this a bug.

Crime bars and a protestor are not formed if taxes are lowered to the next level or at Hard difficulty.

[Replaced "tents that evolve to at least shacks in the first half of the month" with "new houses (whether or not they evolved above a tent) sometimes".]

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 04-03-2024 @ 08:50 AM).]

posted 10-05-17 06:13 ET (US)     13 / 14  
Down with the governor!!

It could be considered as a small glitch in a masterpiece. Common player in common gameplay will never notice it. Few years longer gameplay because of slower peace rating is not a huge problem. And it is not unrealistic. The people tend to react inadequate in new situation (jast after arrival to new city).

I think the "ghosts" bug is much more frustrating and illogical bug.
posted 04-03-24 09:07 ET (US)     14 / 14  
I decided to check this out while building my 1 Granary Massilia. A recently settled house may have a tent penalty at mid-month, whether or not it has evolved above a tent. I edited reply #12. It may be that that occurs when the house was settled shortly before mid-month, but I'm uncertain, so I just wrote "sometimes".
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