Grumpus,

How do you ensure that musicians and dancers walk by all the housing?

Oh, and I had to indulge myself by seeing your block in glyphy:

Legend

--Jimhotep

[This message has been edited by Jimhotep (edited 05-11-2000).]

Grumpus, as always, wonderful.

Jimhotep:

As soon as I read your post I realized that you were right. There should be no way that the inner parts of both blocks get coverage by either dancers or musicians. - But they do!

I turned on the dancer overlay and watched. All of the destination dancers would go straight across the bottom of the block ignoring the interior. The random dancers emitted by the pavillions would be turned back by the roadblocks leaving the interior uncovered, BUT every once in awhile, what appears to be a random dancer shows up in the interior of the block and traipses around it. I haven't the faintest clue as to why this happens.

If anyone would care to take a look at this, I have zipped the file and it can be downloaded from my site:

http://www.topcities.com/Resume/irvdon/index.html

I would love to know what's going on here.

Grumpus

Hi Grumpus,
I have seen dancers and musicians emerge from a school onto a road that was a few tiles distant. In one city (Abu) the musicians did it consistently, and I had to move the conservatory to make them follow the desired path to the pavilion. Maybe something similar is happening in your block.

Yep, it was an interesting phenomonononon

I looked at the test block through the entertainment overlay and noticed that every so often in one inner loop (by the dance school a dancer would "teleport" over to an inner loop juggler stage and then walk around. The same loop had musician access when I first looked at it, but lost it in a few months as no musician did that. On the other loop on the far side, it lost dancer access, but a musician would "teleport" over to a road or pass a road block and wander around that loop. Kind of interesting, but I think it falls back to that "surplus" entertainers will randomly walk around your city, but don't count on it for consistant access.

Bradius

The setup is this:

Dance Sch---Block---Pavillion---Block--Conservatory

Both the blocks get random dancers, evidently from the pavillions when they shouldn't. I have seen them appear from the Juggler's Booth; the water supply; and the bazaar. Once in a while TWO will appear (in different places)

I put a concervatory on the opposite side from the dancer's school and have run this thing for six years now and the block has never devolved. (it did come close a couple of times)

Beats me.

[This message has been edited by Grumpus The Elder (edited 05-11-2000).]

I've noticed this in many cities also, with pavilions but not bandstands, and Nero Would mentions it in his entertainment opus. A fairly high proportion (somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 -- it seems reliable enough to count on) of the entertainers spawned by pavilions start their trips by teleporting to a nearby road space.

Whatever:

I'm going to keep using the block as long as it works. Besides, I like the way it looks!

Grumpus,

If I may be so bold, I think the following layout has a more robust desirability overlay (presuming industry is to the west). Using two more medium statues instead of 8 gardens costs very little extra. If you need to use shrines, a medium statue can be replaced with four of them. for very nearly the same desirability overlay. Or the rose garden can be replaced with a shrine.

Legend

[This message has been edited by Jimhotep (edited 05-12-2000).]

Jimhotep:

You're absolutely right! Your arrangement is better than mine. I compared the two side-by-side and your version has better desirability and appearance.

I prefer the single statue and shrines to the paired statues, and a shrine instead of the rose garden. Needless to say, these statues will not be the pigeon variety. As far as I know, hell has not yet frozen over.

Now all I have to do is go back and spend a couple of hours revising my web site AGAIN!. Thanks a lot! (kidding)

Grumpus

Grumpus,

So you noticed that I labelled the statues? LOL! I'm happy to have helped improve your block, especially if I can be a pest while doing so.

Here is a bigger brother to your block. It is designed to go to Spacious Manor. Some tinkering with desirability could bring it up to stately manor, but this layout is prettier. All two by two housing should go to fancy residence, and will provide enough workers for all the services, and be a start on the workers needed for the support industry.

I'm not sure if your teleporting dancers can be relied upon to support this block, so I put in a Pavillion, just in case.

Legend

Regards,

Jimhotep

[This message has been edited by Jimhotep (edited 05-12-2000).]

Block has been revised:

Diagram
Screenshot (225k)

There are some small differences between the diagram and the screenshot. These are due to terrain limitations.

Now all I have to do is spend ANOTHER couple of hours checking out Jimhoteps contribution. Sheeeez!

[This message has been edited by Grumpus The Elder (edited 05-12-2000).]

It occurs to me that if you want Spacious Manors, you don't need the Pavillion. Should it turn out that the stub road unduly confuses walkers, the Senet Player, Juggler and Venue bonus give you more than enough entertainment points.

Were the city's population to get ahead of the number of venues, the Spacious Manors might drop to Common Manors, but this would not be the catastrophe that a Manor to Residence transition would be.

If your stacked entertainment venues are reliable teleporters, then one needs the interior Pavillion even less. Another library would look nice there, and would keep your culture ratings up. Reliance on teleporting dancers would be another thematic connection with the first block.

Tonight is my night to make supper, and I should start soon, but I'll see if I can begin to design an estate block which bears a family resemblance to these other two. Wouldn't that be nice?

--Jimhotep

[This message has been edited by Jimhotep (edited 05-12-2000).]

Here's Papa Bear! (attn: Homegrown )

Mind the bazaars- they are key to things evolving as they should. Be *very* careful about moving them. Should go up to Stately Manors and Palatial Estates if musicians and dancers teleport in like they are supposed to. I really wish I understood that phenomenon! Build what you like along the top row. If the teleporters are unreliable, a stub road for a pavillion will have to be stuck on. The loop is already 52 long, so there might be coverage problems... Anyway:

Legend

Regards,

Jimhotep

[This message has been edited by Jimhotep (edited 05-12-2000).]

Jimhotep:

Just finished running a modified Big Brother for 10 game years. No Pavillion, no devolvment. Dancers and Musicians appeared in the luxury block before I ever put ANY buildings there!

I did a fair amount of modification and will post diagrams tomorrow. Also hope to find time to take a look at Papa Bear.

Grumpus (Going for a beer or seven!)

Jimhotep:

I've finished screwing up your design and here's what I came up with:

Major changes are:

a - Eliminated two manors. This gets rid of the "bump" on the sides of the block and permits me to more easily merge with other blocks or the entertainment stack.

b - Removed some of the worker's housing. I thought I might want to use that space for something else.

c - Added a third temple to upgrade the block to Stately Manor. Also added third bazaar, but am not really sure if that was necessary.

Before I upgraded from Spacious Manor to Stately Manor, I ran this block, an entertainment stack, and a workers housing block for over 10 years and had no devolvement.

A Diagram of the Paired Blocks

Screenshot

Any comments appreciated.

Grumpus

"Now I gotta go work on your PE block - Sheeez!"

Grumpus,

So you've decided to slim down mama bear, huh? Make her a stately instead of spacious. Sounds good.

Let me see if I can move that third temple into the block somewhere- it looks kinda tacked on. And the services which need supplies should really be closer to the entrance.

How about this:

Legend

If the entertainment stack goes on the right, then the little garden can go- the manor there is just a point short of the 74 desirability needed to evolve to stately.

How do you make your diagrams? I like glyphy, but I would like to know how to draw them your way, too.

Regards,

Jimhotep

Jimhotep:

Good move - leaves more room on that road for the never ending demands for cultural stuff.

I make my diagrams using a program called SmartDraw. I've had it forever, and would be lost without. If interested, you can d/l a trial from www.SmartDraw.com

I've put together a block of 6 PE's with only a Senet House in it. Five of the six PE's have now been stable for 5 years. The sixth devolves to Modest Estate occasionally. I'm going to continue the run some more and see what happens.

Take care -

Grumpus