Lets play this out:

1)We Lynch Ovi
Debs Kills Rayo
We lynch debs (might be a problem because Rayo might be able to switch one of us with her)

2)We Lynch Ovi
Deb kills one of us and things get confusing.

3)We Lynch Debs
Ovi and Ray either win or switch us around (and we're happy if that happens because we all know we're good)

Hmm, I like the idea of lynching Ovi. I havn't really trusted him (and his win condition) and so far we've played right into his hands.

We've all been a townie at one point in time so I think our win conditions are rather blurred. I think it's in our best interests to lynch Ovi.

Unvote

Vote: Ovidius

If Debs were to kill Rayo tonight I imagine one of us would now have debs role (as he'd prolly switch us) but at this point I've been town a lot longer than scum so it'd feel like a victory to me if I were to end up getting lynched if I got switched tonight.

Quoted from street hobo:

Thanks, hobo, I appreciate your vote of confidence but it's not a mistake...

Ok, you clearly don't believe that lynching hobo is in our collective best interests, but it really is. I can't say that I blame you, although, if you think back, without Ray and I, both the mafia boss and the serial killer could still be lurking amongst us.

Unofficial Vote Count
street hobo - 3 votes (Ovidius, Ray, Debbie)
Debbie - 2 votes (street hobo, Niempie)
Ovidius - 1 vote (Adder)

Let's look at Adder's suggested strategies (all of which involve me dying!! Shame on you Adder! )...

Quoted from Adder:

Sounds good... except... Why would Debbie engineer the deaths of the only people who aren't against anyone, just to be left facing the lynching power of three pro-townies (cop, doc, and townie)? She needs us going into Day 5, so I don't think this strategy will work (or at least, if I were in her position, it would not be my number one win strategy).

Quoted from Adder:

I am not sure that this is a viable strategy for anyone, never mind the town. With me and one of the pro-townies (cop, doc, townie) dead before Day 5 dawns, Ray and Debbie will not vote for themselves, nor is it likely that it is in their best interests to vote for each other, because in Day 6, they'll be outvoted 2:1, assuming the game continues that far.

Quoted from Adder:

Why didn't I think of that?

RECONFIRM VOTE STREET HOBO

I think the best option of all is that today's lynch is Ovidius or Ray, I kill the other tonight, we are rid of the role swappers.

This is based on the fact (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I was only switched once) that as the cop the first night I got my result and THEN I was switched afterwards. If Ray or Ovidius were lynched today and then I kill the other one tonight, I am assuming that no one will be switched (unless Darth is evil and picks a whole new role switcher, but that's an easy figure out since everyone is being so honest) Adder, Niempe, Hobo and I are still alive, role swappers (which I do not think are pro-town) are all dead, I'm the last remaining mafia, lynch me, town wins outright.

I'm all for an Ovi vote today then.

Quote:

I have no win strategy, my back's against the wall.
NO WAY I CAN WIN. I prefer a town win instead of a unknown role swapper win.

Unvote

Vote Ovidius

Quoted from Debs, post 205:

HUH?!? WHAT?!?!

What the hell kind of logic is that?

“I’m the bad guy (or girl) and I only win if the good guys lose . . . but I would rather the good guys win instead of someone else who might or might not be bad.”

So if this actually follows through – the sole remaining ACKNOWLEDGED mafia is going to get the townies to lynch someone who is AT WORST neutral and still might be good, but is definitely not mafia.

Think this through folks – Debs isn’t being completely honest (hmmm . . . surprising in someone who is mafia I know) when she says she can’t win…. If you lynch Ovi, that means there will be 1. me … the sole remaining role switcher . . . 2. Debs the last remaining scum . . . and 3. the three townies.

I must switch AT LEAST 3 folks and can switch more if want to. And if you kill Ovi, I will switch all of you before Debs kills me tonight. Promise.

Debs will get switched with one of you, you will be the scum, you will be killed and then . . .

Surprise!!! - Debs wins!

Actually, Ray. That's fine. Don't swap Debbie tonight. It's not like you have to. You all can lynch me now. Debbie is scum tomorrow. Lynch her then. Then lynch Ray. Town wins, cos the three townie roles will just be swapped with each other. Anyway, it was fun while it lasted.

I don't think so. I don't give up that easy.

As for you, Ovi

Do not go gentle into that good night,
. . .
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas

OK, so how about we lynch Debbie then?

Sounds good to me. I'm not sure how you and I will end up. We lose if Debs wins, and we sort of half-way win and half-way lose if she dies. Hmmm....almost like we're neutral. Neither good nor bad.

Anyway...

Unvote

Vote: Debbie

Quote:

but can we believe that? When I was the cop I got my result THEN I was switched. If the people who are what they are going into the night and you're dead because I killed you, doesn't that nullify your switches?

Good question, Debs. I don't know the answer, but all the more reason for the town to kill you now. We KNOW you're scum. Ovi and myself are neutral. If the town lynches you today, then the game is probably over. If not, Ovi and I can only switch the townies around and everyone is still pro town. If that's the case, naturally they will kill either Ovi or myself one day and the final one the next day. Still, game over; town wins; Debs loses.

fine by me, although I really don't know your and Ovidius's true alignment, neutral or otherwise. Do you have a win condition?

Yes. Without mod-quoting, it's basically, we win if the town wins and John Murdock is dead. We lose if the mafia wins. I'm not sure if we win or lose if the town wins, the mafia is dead, but John Murdock is still alive - which is almost certainly how the game will end if we lynch Debs.

I guess we neither win nor lose. Which is better than just plain losing. Kind of a metaphysical result really. The neutral players end up with a neutral finish.

Ovi and Ray, it seems really obvious that you guys are desperate right now. The thing is it's hard to tell where the desperation is coming from.

Quote:

Unless you win when there's nobody who can kill you anymore...I must admit that'd be a really weird win condition but there must be a reason you're labeled as neutral, if you were pro-town the game would be really unbalanced.

Quote:

Night actions happen first; that's why cops have been able to get results. I personally wouldn't mind being switched with Debs, it'd still feel like a win to me. Maybe the scum and the town can live together in peace even if no roles are switched (AKA repeat no lynches and no night kills ).

Quoted from Adder, post 251:

Not desperate. Just resigned to fate. We can't outright win the game anymore (unless 2 of the townies want to lynch John Murdock for some reason) but it looks like we can perhaps pull out a tie. I know for sure that we lose if the mafia wins. Period.

But hey, don't take my word for it. I'm just one of The Others. Go ahead, believe the Mafia instead. I'm sure the Mafia has the town's best interests at heart.

When the mafia hasn't been the mafia the whole game a bit of a problem is created.

You guys make the game way too pro-town powerful though. I'd like to believe you, I really would.

I'll wait for hobo's and Niempie's take. If they choose to continue to vote for Debs I will as well.

Quote:

so your win condition is that John Murdock is dead. Pro-town with a win condition that someone is dead? I'm dead anyway, I guess its up to ya'll if you want an outright townie win, which you will get if you lynch Ray or Ovidius, and then I kill the other at night. Then, by all means, lynch me, I'll still win because I started a townie, even though I'm a dead scum.

You want the game to be over today? Lynch me and we'll see if that is their only win condition. Lynch one of them, I kill the other, outright townie win the next day with my lynching.

Your choice. I don't care one way or the other since I'm doomed. I'm just giving the option of an outright townie win versus an unknown outcome if you do lynch me today.

Quote:

I would agree. I really liked being a cop the first day, my first chance to investigate each night and test my ability to ferret out scum never really had the chance and I would have liked it.

I would have enjoyed killing people as the sk.

Quote:

Please! Look at the table. Debbie's been mafia for the entire game except the first day and the first night.

UNVOTE
VOTE DEBBIE
Killshot.

Is that four??

If so (looks like it is) I'll update when I get home. Just got in from work (started before 6am, been up since 4:30), and now I've got college...

As Debbie was hoisted up onto the lynching scaffolding, she shouted at the top of your voice "You're making a big mistake! What is not evil may not necessarily be good! Remember my words!!"

And at that... she was dead.

Town wins - But the Strangers still have control of the Dark City... this isn't over...

So is the game over or are we still playing?

*haunts*

Quote:

told you, you never listen to me

*goes back to being dead*