What's a Brugle block? - City Builders Forums

Topic Subject: What's a Brugle block?

Jacobus Grisius
Pleb

posted 03-06-00 10:13 ET (US)

Ave, omnes!

What is a Brugle block? I've seen the term on this board a few times and have no clue what the layout for it is.

Gonna try Lugdunum again today...but first, I may just do some planning (gasp!), which is a new tack for good old design-on-the-fly me. I think this is one of the reasons I'm having so much trouble on this map...it's not one you can just move in, plop some buildings down, and win. Now if only my brain didn't start swimming when I try to crunch the production versus consumption numbers from Grumpus' site...

"Let's see...it's one farm feeds 360 people, unless you're in a northern province on a leap year with exactly fourteen wolves and a native uprising..."

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Procurator Jacobus Grisius, just a guvner

Author

Replies:

Marcus Lindicus
Pleb

posted 03-06-00 11:50 ET (US) 1 / 22

Ave Jacobus,
Brugle is one of the C3 legendary status players. He is so meticulous and thorough that he has established a name for himself on the forums as one of the greats. Grumpus diagrams Brugle's palace block on his site. As for Brugle's plain housing block I am not too sure. I think Grumpus' block is the u shaped 4x9 seen on his site, but I am certain Brugle has one he has devised. Maybe he can be convinced to share his design with us. Maybe in the glypy1.1b format?

Cheers,

onsul

arcusLindicus

-----I always wanted to be someone....I guess I should have been more specific.-----

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-06-00 17:22 ET (US) 2 / 22

Hello.

You can download some of Brugle's amazing games at the download section. I think there are five maps total, all on the later levels. He has his hippodrome lux palace block in one of them, and a giant lux palace block on some of the other ones.

Porcius
Pleb

posted 03-06-00 19:20 ET (US) 3 / 22

I think that Brugle's block for small casa is an interesting type of block. The block is sort of U shaped, with housing on both sides of the U. Optional roads on the outside of the U may be used for either more buildings or for labor access depending on the situation. The outside roads will not be connected to the inner U road. Buildings on the ends of the U are service buildings, most notably a market on one end and a granary on the other end. The net effect is something similar to an enclosed walkway block. Not as tight of a loop as an enclosed walkway, but it has the advantage of a higher house density and markets have become part of a dedicated system. The market buyers only know the one road past the housing, through the granary and past the food production buildings. The market buyers will not attempt to find other food types in distant granaries. One great use of this is to keep your multiple food types,that you set up for your palaces,from being stored in the small casas.

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 03-06-00 19:42 ET (US) 4 / 22

Marcus Lindicus, Fishman
Ah shucks, you'll make me blush...

I do try to be thorough and sometimes meticulous, but I haven't participated in any competitions or discovered much about the game. Most of what you hear from me I picked up here. If I'm "legendary", it's probably because I've continued to visit here even after Pharaoh came out.

Grumpus the Elder liked the luxury palace block in my Damascus, and (after some modifications we made so it'd work well in all climates) put it on his site. He called it the "Brugle block". I don't know why anything else would be called that.

Once I discovered how a combination of small casas and a few luxury palaces gives high prosperity with few distribution problems (by minimizing the demand for goods), I built most C3 cities that way (but not in Samizegetusa, where I made all houses medium insulaes just for fun). When possible, I usually built very efficient (people/service worker) small casa "loop" blocks (but not in Londinium, where I built no gatehouses just for fun). Those blocks have a single ring of road in the area covered by 2 or 3 fountains, which is mostly filled with small casas. The loop road extends out of the fountain coverage for a short ways, where there is a prefecture (if needed), engineer post, clinic, small temple, theater, library, forum, 2 or 3 markets, and a gatehouse (connnecting to the "outside world" which includes a granary and an actor colony). My Massilia, Damascus, and Valentia have such blocks.

I consider Massilia to be my best C3 city. I expected it to be difficult, spent a lot of time planning it (even by my standards), and was surprised by how smoothly it went. (I also expected Lindum to be difficult, so I also built it with small casas and luxury palaces, but I wasn't nearly as satisfied.) In retrospect, I think it would have been better to build more of the later C3 cities with better plebian housing (as in most of my Pharaoh cities). There were two rather nice large insulae blocks in Tarsus, and I might have submitted it to the Downloads if I hadn't accidentally deleted the saved game.

Oh, Porcius snuck a post in while I was writing the above. He must be referring to the small casa blocks (without gatehouses) in my Londinium. They worked well, but weren't quite as efficient as my standard "loop" blocks.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 03-06-2000).]

Marcus Lindicus
Pleb

posted 03-06-00 22:28 ET (US) 5 / 22

Ave Brugle,
I think you are legendary no matter how modest you may be. You taught me everything I know about planning. Before I discovered your posts I simply planned blocks as stand alone entities. Now I plan blocks within the framework of a city. That change in my strategy sent my game light years ahead. It is now amazing to me how simple most of the levels are (overall), with alot of planning. Planning is over half of the game and in many ways is the most enjoyable part for me. I do love to have surprises come up and occasionally have to scramble for something, don't get me wrong, but the stage where I imagine what my city CAN be is the most intellectually stimulating. Once a city is going it is more organic and less esoteric. This is just personal preference, of course, and is why I keep playing the game. But at the end of all that it comes back to your lesson of patience that I took to heart. I also use your hippodrome palace block with regularity. Having tried devising others, I am still of the opinion that that block design is genius. So cheers to you Brugle, and your block. May many more learn from you.

Cheers,

onsul

arcusLindicus

-----I always wanted to be someone....I guess I should have been more specific.-----

MarcusMaximus
Pleb

posted 03-06-00 23:06 ET (US) 6 / 22

Ave Brugle,

Your palace block is my palace block.

The only thing I modify is the water fountain placement in the deserts. I also built a double wide in Valentia (12 palaces) and often expand the width to accomodate the senate, my governor's palace and usually large temples in the middle (depending on my whims and available space/supplies).

I stand upon the shoulders of giants.

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A Glorious Death Is Always Preferred To A Mediocre Life!

Eraserhead
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 10:24 ET (US) 7 / 22

Just a question. I'm wondering why none of Brugle's casa blocks (and also his palace loop block) are included in the housing strategy section. Better yet, maybe his city layouts, particularly Valentia and Massilia. I'm sure C3 players can learn a lot from it. I know I have.

Marcus Lindicus
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 11:36 ET (US) 8 / 22

Ave all,
Wow Marcus I want to see one of those 12 palace blocks done in glyphy! If nothing else send me a sav file and I will do it for you, giving you generous amounts of credit of course. I am really trying to get a palace block that will include about a dozen palaces, the hippodrome, a senate, a governor's palace, all five large temples, and a couple of triumphal arches. If you are already semi-incorporating Brugle's design I would love to see it. LMK

I have had minimal experience in palace building so help is desired

Also, eraserhead is right, where are Brugle's designs in the housing block section and why has he not been promoted to Cherub? Three cheers for Brugle!

Cheers, Cheers, Cheers,

onsul

arcusLindicus

-----I always wanted to be someone....I guess I should have been more specific.-----

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 11:54 ET (US) 9 / 22

Hello.

I found Brugle's palace block on this forum in glyphy, thanks to Brugle for the palace and thanks to Procurator MarcusLindicus for making the glyphy and special thanks to Crassus Pauper and Angel Jayhawk for making the glyphy tool.

Legend

A little messed up it seems.

Marcus Lindicus
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 12:00 ET (US) 10 / 22

Ave Fishman,
Thanks for your help. But alas, I was Procurator MarcusLindicus for awhile.

And I made that glyphy Brugle block for my old old thread, "Drool over this". Good research.

I had to change my name because I didn't have enough email addresses to keep getting a new user name with every promotion, just in case you were wondering. So the wait for the 12 palace glyphy continues.

Cheers,

onsul

arcusLindicus

-----I always wanted to be someone....I guess I should have been more specific.-----

[This message has been edited by Marcus Lindicus (edited 03-07-2000).]

MarcusMaximus
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 12:54 ET (US) 11 / 22

Ave Marcus Lindicus,

If I still have the "correct" Valentia saved, I will send that along when I can.

Designing it is simple. Use the basic plan and be creative!

First, rip out the road next to the hyppodrome and "shove over" the entertainment venues. Place the road accordingly (backfill any spaces between the hyppodrome and entertainment with statues or gardens).

Then, reverse the pattern of the palaces and services on the opposite side.

I also added a little spare space to adjust the markets and theaters. Note that all 5 gods have representation in the whole block.

Leave room for roads and extra prefects/engineers should you need them. Use the overlays! Nudge the roads past the colussuem, too. Where I can, I also add the senate and governor's palace and any triumpal arches.

I also only had one gatehouse and surrounded everything with statutes so that the only access point was the gatehouse. I used large statutes whenever possible since that seem to have the "best" effects on the surrounding area.

I also switched the theater by the colussuem and the market by the palace nearest the gatehouse. I don't know the full effect, but I found it easier to rest assured that I would not hear a complaint about being too near a market.

Immediately outside the gatehouse, I positioned accepting graineries for each type of food. I also placed receiving warehouses beyond those and I included food warehouses, too. Remember one item per warehouse and build your stockpiles high! I also had at least one other warehouse between the sources (industry or import dock) for each item and tried to fill that before evolving the palaces.

I found that by using a small section of the coast for wharves connected only to the palace fish graineries (???) I could establish a consistant single food source. I had to be a little creative at laying down the road to accomodate this.

Luck

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A Glorious Death Is Always Preferred To A Mediocre Life!

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 13:13 ET (US) 12 / 22

Hello.

Brugle has another casa loop block. I like this one.

Legend

A little messed up.

Jacobus Grisius
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 13:36 ET (US) 13 / 22

Ave, Fishman!

Ooh, I do like that casa block! And if you drop out one of the outside 2x2's you can put in a bathhouse and get them to large casa. The only thing I can think of that would limit this is the character of the map. I doubt if I could build too many of these in Lugdunum, for example (I have enough trouble fitting in 4x9's!).

Given the right map (which is probably anything but that gods-damned Lugdunum), this would work great. I think I'm saving this plan...

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Procurator Jacobus Grisius, just a guvner

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 13:44 ET (US) 14 / 22

Hello Jacobus Grisius

I just finished Lugdunum maybe two weeks ago. Beat it on first try. But took four days of planning and number cruching to make it. I ended up getting annoyed and just stealing a little bit of Crassus Pauper's design (farm). To beat Lugdunum, you cannot have small casa, properity too low. insulae has high enough properity though. have fun

Jacobus Grisius
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 14:04 ET (US) 15 / 22

Ave Fishman!

Planning? What's that? Yes, I tend to be a seat-of-the-pants city planner, but Lugdunum actually made me sit down and figure out how many clay pits, potter and furniture workshops and farms I had to have. At the moment, I have two small casa blocks on my export island (looks like I'll have to start a clay pit or two on the mainland (sigh)), five small insulae blocks over by the native land, and two blocks I'm nursing to medium insulae for the prosperity value on the plateau. Population of 6,000+, but my culture and prosperity ratings are still under. The culture will come in as I add necessary services to those two high-end blocks, but the prosperity makes me nervous. (I have 30 right now...I know it can only go up 10 points per year and that's extreme...)

Well...maybe I can finish it tonight. Wanna offer a burnt sacrifice to Mercury for luck for me?

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Procurator Jacobus Grisius, just a guvner

Marcus Lindicus
Pleb

posted 03-07-00 15:30 ET (US) 16 / 22

Ave all,
Planning is the key Jacobus, and you are finding that out in Lugdunum for sure! I like the Fishman beat Lugdunum on the first attempt, but four or five days of planning went into it.

And thanks to Marcus Maximus I have my 12 palace block up now. It rocks! Thanks my man.

Cheers,

onsul

arcusLindicus

-----I always wanted to be someone....I guess I should have been more specific.-----

Jacobus Grisius
Pleb

posted 03-09-00 13:58 ET (US) 17 / 22

Here's an insulae variation on the Brugle casa block that fishman posted above. If anyone can critique this for me, please do. If...no, WHEN I beat LugDAMNum and get a map with a little more room, I'd like to use this. Farms would go to the bottom, industry to the top (knowing, of course, that I'll never have the ideal placement of farmland and industrial sites to do it exactly that way...). This plan should evolve to medium insulae without any great trouble, assuming goods flow is adequate.

Postscript, edited: I just noticed the library fronting two streets. Mentally move the library below the theater and switch it with that housing. Thanks!

Legend

Thanks!

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Procurator Jacobus Grisius, just a guvner

[This message has been edited by Jacobus Grisius (edited 03-09-2000).]

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 03-09-00 16:22 ET (US) 18 / 22

Everyone,
There are a lot of block designs (in old threads in this forum, in the Strategy section, in saved games) that have been built and work. I'd much rather look at a working block and try to make it better, than look at something with obvious flaws. Of course, that's just my preference. But (from now on) I'll usually not comment on block designs that haven't been tried.

By the way, I hope that people realized two things about Fishman's casa block diagram in reply #12: it's an example of what I described in the middle of reply #4, and the loop road (except for the very top) should be plazas. An interesting feature of that block is that the granary has fire/damage protection, as does anything (perhaps an actor colony) directly above the forum.

Jacobus Grisius,
The houses in the middle have too little desirability to be medium insulaes (and may not even evolve to small casas). The school kids might not cover everything. Why not add another row of housing at the bottom? (And I don't like using 4 fountains in this size block, but there's no problem with it if you've got the workers.)

I'd position the block so that farms are on the right, close to the granary (especially with central/southern wheat farms). And I'd put industry anywhere except the top, so that (like the farms) labor access would be supplied by the block.

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-09-00 16:33 ET (US) 19 / 22

Hello Jacobus Grisius.

This might not be nessesary, but it can help. You should swith the places of your prefecture, engineer, doctor, and barber. The perfect should be next to the gatehouse, while the barber should be right next to the homes. This would help if you need a better desireability, nothing more. The engineer and doctor are neutral buildings, so anywhere really.

On the granaries, they need fire and damage protection (but you already knew that, right ).

Oh, one more thing. The gardens on the right, replace them with some temples, oracles, libraries, schools, etc. that you might need for culture.

On the library. Do not put it under the theater. Again for desireability. Put it a couple of spaces left of where it is now. That might cancel the negitive effect of the Gatehouse. If your block works fine now, ignore my ravings, as I indeed am a madman.

Brugle
HG Alumnus

posted 03-09-00 16:58 ET (US) 20 / 22

Fishman,
With a prefecture beside a gatehouse, I have seen (in Tingis and somewhere else) a prefect patrol the road on the other side! My guess is that the prefect emerges inside the gatehouse and walks out the "wrong" end. I switched the prefecture with a clinic and never saw the same problem with a doctor. Since I don't understand the situation, I'm not sure that my solution is always good, but I recommend being very careful around a gatehouse.

In Jacobus Grisius's block, the bottom granary has fire/damage protection.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 03-09-2000).]

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-09-00 17:04 ET (US) 21 / 22

Brugle! You beat me! I just mentioned that the desireability of some of the homes might not work.

Take Brugle's advice on the farms and industry, it's the only way to go (unless your insane ).

Can't think of anything for the school kids. They are almost (but not quite) as troublesome as the pea brains who run the market.

Unlike Brugle, I shall always have opinions on blocks, for I have little imagination and am a thief (when it comes to blocks anyways but you knew that already ).

Fishman
Pleb

posted 03-09-00 17:14 ET (US) 22 / 22

AHHHHHHH!!!!! You beat me again!!!!! How can this be?!?!?!

Well, anywho......

About Brugle's perfect gone crazy.... This has happened to me as well, in Carthago (which made the majority of my population catch fire. It was worse than seeing a homeless person! ) Well... I too switched it with a doctor (odd, Brugle and I did the same thing) and it worked. Too bad the perfect is a little confused sometimes, they never complain about anything.

The moral of the story? I'm not sure, but i guess the doc's know what I want and the perfects are not bright enough to complain about anything ("there's no sign of crime around here!")

Caesar IV Heaven » Forums » Caesar III: Game Help » What's a Brugle block?

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