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39 replies
Topic Subject: Betrayed by total war?
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 08:36 AM EDT (US)   
NOTE:New Information added at bottom of this post, below the second red text. If you weren't mad before, you will be now.


Quoted from the total war official site

Hi guys,


We have made the Special Forces and Pre-order units available in multiplayer games and in skirmish modes (one-off custom battles) from the very start of the game. Previously these units would only be available in the Grand Campaign mode once certain conditions were met.

All of the units are balanced so you have to pay more 'points' to field more powerful units in battles. There will of course be other, just-as-powerful units available to those players without the exclusive units.

Thanks,

Mark O'Connell

(aka SenseiTW)



here is the link- http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update-.html

If the link doesn't work, you can also find it by going to total war.com and clicking the bottom left corner "Special Forces and Pre-order Units update!"


Anyways, although I'm not exactly sure what they're talking about, after reading the forum basically players who order early and pay extra money(I think about 10 or 20 dollars) they get access to some special-unique units. Although they say the units are "balanced" with points, they admit that the units are unique(there is a "unique" artillery unit for sure).

The units are rare, if you don't buy them now, you will forever have a disadvantage against certain players in multiplayer. Been saving up anticipating total war? got the 50$ ready from mowing lawns, baby sitting etc.?(or doing extra chores if your a younger player) Well, sorry but you know that rich kid next door that's always buying his status in games? The kid who used to always buy the best yugioh, pokemon whatever cars and rip you to shreds? Remember how you started playing total war because, no matter your status, if you had a computer than ran it, you had just as much advantage as the next guy.

The units may be balanced, but then again so are elephants in medieval total war They cost allot, and might run amok but in large florin matches, that isn't really a problem. These players who bought the special units will have advantages in unlimited florin and large florin matches, and will have access to strategies unavailable to normal players. After all, if the units just looked better than normal units they wouldn't be worth the 10 bucks now would they?

Ive probably spent about 200 dollars on total war games/expansions. I was already planning on buying the next total war game when it came out, even before they started planning for it. I can afford the special units, I have about 250 dollars(about a years worth of savings) saved in my video game fund, its not a big problem to pay 10 dollars for the units, but that's not the point.

When the next tw game comes out, will it be just another zoo tycoon? Will it be whoever has the richest parents wins? I may just be blowing things out of proportion, but I think this nears to be known. I'm greatly reconsidering buying empire total war. I feel like total war is trying to take advantage of me.


Don't think its that bad? Read this from direct2drive, a site offering download of ETW with the special units

from Direct2Drive
Empire: Total War Special Forces Edition Elite Units

* HMS Victory - The Royal Navy's most distinguished and formidable first rate ship of the line; Lord Nelson's 104 gun flagship is one of the most heavily armed ships of the 18th Century.
* Rogers' Rangers - Major Robert Rogers' company of rangers are highly trained elite light infantry, specialising in reconnaissance and special operations. They are extremely mobile in even the most challenging environments.
* Ottoman Organ Gun - A viciously powerful field gun, able to inflict incredible damage on the opposing army. Emphatic proof of the Ottoman Empire's advanced knowledge of gunpowder and firearms technology.
* Ghoorkas - "Better to die than be a coward" has been the motto of these elite Nepalese soldiers for centuries. Disciplined, tough and courageous, they carry a deadly 18-inch long, curved knife known as the kukri.
* Corso Terrestre Guerillas - An independent light infantry guerrilla regiment, experienced in skirmish and stealth tactics. Surprise raids and ambushes are the guerillas' favoured tactics, a way to compensate for their limited number and light armour.
* Bulkeley's Regiment - A French unit of Irish mercenaries with a fearsome reputation for hardiness. Exceptionally tough and resilient, they make for a highly flexible and dependable regiment.
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-19-2009 @ 11:38 AM).]

Author
Replies:
Hunterufus
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 10:16 AM EDT (US)     1 / 39  
Its obvious to me the point your making as many others have made a point of feeling that they will have a weaker army against someone who has the special forces edition. Let me say this:

These units will cost more than the usual ones, so your opponent wont have as many men as you. And a key point in Empire will be: the more guns the better.

These units can be powerful but they all had their weaknesses, to the people who are commanding them to the weather conditions aka: an organ gun is powerful at range but crap when attacked

Finnaly according to some of the member at ETWH someone is going to find a way to mod them into the regular game anyway so you can have them.
Baggies great escape!

Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Bender, be careful! That's the ship's diamond filament tether. It's unbreakable.
Bender: Then why do I have to be careful?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: It belonged to my Grandmother.
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 11:39 AM EDT (US)     2 / 39  
In my 3+ years of playing total war, I've only played 1 multiplayer match.

That's not really the point. I'll probably not be playing much multiplayer, at all, either way.

The point is, total war gave me the offer "give us money and you'll have an edge!"

That's incredibly offensive, we've been loyal to them, and they try to pull this on us? Do they think I'm some kind of gullible kid?

A special pre-order offer is great, but give us something like a total war mouse pad, or a limited edition wallpaper. Not a multiplayer advantage!

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-04-2009 @ 02:32 PM).]

Woolagaroo
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 03:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 39  
First of all, why would you even come here and post if you do not plan on buying the game? This is obviously a place for people who are enthusiastically looking forward to the game. You are, of course, free to express your opinion.
However, again, if you do not play multiplayer, why would you gripe about a feature that might, as you say, unbalance multiplayer? It seems somewhat like complaining for complaining's sake.
Finally, we do not know if the additional units will unbalance gameplay, or even if those with the units will be able to use them against those without. On the whole, I've gotten the impression that the units are to enhance unit diversity in the game, not to give certain people advantages.
Oh yeah, and there are special editions offering more 'substantial' extras.
Deutschland erwartet, dass jeder Mann seine Pflicht tun wird.
Россия ожидает, что каждый исполнит свой долг.
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 03:49 PM EDT (US)     4 / 39  
I originally posted in on the medieval 2 total war discussion, but it was locked and ordered to be moved here. Unfortunately, there is no general total war forum and this is the only place for it.

As for why I'm posting it, its a disgusting move by total war to, putting in gimmicks like these. You can't tell me that there isn't even a slight advantage with these units, or nobody would pay extra for them. Creative assembly, total war, whoever is working on the game is reducing it to a collectible card game. They're reducing total war to a game where, instead of "best man wins" its "richest man wins"


I don't want to complain just for the sake of complaining, i don't want to start a flame war, I just want to get the word out. I believe that people should know about this.
Palatine warrior
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 04:44 PM EDT (US)     5 / 39  
I definitely see what you mean, and you're right. For example, in a naval battle, average budget, you have a balanced fleet of frigates, first-rates and the like, and instead of a roughly even fleet, he has the HMS Victory. I don't play multiplayer often, and when I do I expect the winner to have won through strategy, not his/her wallet.
I'm not playing all the wrong notes. I'm playing all the right notes. But not
nessescarily in the right order.- Eric Morcambe.
I have the body of a GOD!- Buddha...
www.Nottinghamrugby.co.uk
They have sown the wind, now they will reap the whirlwind.- Arthur "bomber" Harris.
Woolagaroo
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 06:53 PM EDT (US)     6 / 39  
I think you are making some unfounded leaps in your argument. First off, Creative Assembly is not asking players to sink huge amounts of money into this like the trading card games you alluded to. The unit pack is ten bucks, which for the average gamer (considering they're already shelling out $50 for the game) is not bad at all. Secondly, I think the assumption that these extra units will completely overpower the regular units in the game is pretty unfounded. Let's take your example of the HMS Victory. The Victory, while a large ship (100-guns), was not really any larger than a contemporary first-class. Therefore the advantage of the Victory will most likely be from 'experience'. However, the Victory will also cost more to use. Therefore a smart player will use their numerical advantage against the Victory to achieve victory. Besides, the concept of downloadable content is not new. Games from Call of Duty to Guitar Hero have had downloadable content (none of which enhanced a player's ability). The point of this content is to add variety to a game, and I think gamers will pay for variety.

Frankly, there is only one concrete gripe I can see against the unit pack, and you haven't factored it into your argument at all. However, one could argue that $10 is a stiff price to pay for, as far as we know, only six extra units.
Deutschland erwartet, dass jeder Mann seine Pflicht tun wird.
Россия ожидает, что каждый исполнит свой долг.
rob_redcoat
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 08:04 PM EDT (US)     7 / 39  
I understand the special forces pack and don't mind that. What I don't like is the preorder units making you go to a specific retailer, or if you buy from one retailer, you may miss out on a unit being sold at another retailer.

For Example, I preordered at JB HiFi because you get an extra unit, the USS Constitution. This is the only offer Ive seen like this, but what happens if I miss out on a unit only available through EB games or Big W.

That in my books is not fair and I do have a problem with.

At the moment Im getting 7 extra units, but how many am I missing out on taht are being offered elsewhere and I will never have the opportunity to buy??

Does anyone know of any other units offered around the world as a preorder incentive??

[This message has been edited by rob_redcoat (edited 02-05-2009 @ 00:49 AM).]

deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-04-09 09:20 PM EDT (US)     8 / 39  
wool, your missing the point. Yes, 10 bucks is cheap, and yes, they're just starting. What will happen next year? Any marketer knows that you don't pull something like this on a big scale all at once, Its just like a frog in water. You don't kill him by cranking the heat up to the max, you slowly increase the temperature before frying him like a piece of sausage. Now, in this case, Ive noticed CA cranking the temp up, and I'm thinking of jumping out of the pot.

Of course, all the units won't be the deciding factor in the game, probably won't even make a difference MAYBE even put the special unit user at a disadvantage. That isn't the point.



Total war can't afford to advertise, how many of you started playing based on a tv commercial? I read a review on it, that's how I got hooked. If the person who liked the game wouldn't of written the review, I wouldn't of spent almost 200 dollars on tw games and expansions.

In case you didn't know, these units are rare. Once etw is released, you will NEVER BE ABLE TO GET THEM AGAIN. That's CA using emotional manipulation tactics to get the better of me, and their loyal total war fanbase. I feel like I'm missing out on something if I don't pay the 10 dollars(they want me to anyway).

Without the fanbase, without the people who modded the AI of past tw games, without people like unspoken knight who made retrofit, without the people who pre-ordered their games and put in their ideas for improving the game, total war wouldn't be here.

Total war has a fanbase that many game companies would kill to have. They are spitting in the face of the people who have stuck by them for years, thick and thin.

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-04-2009 @ 09:22 PM).]

Hunterufus
Mariner
posted 02-05-09 01:40 AM EDT (US)     9 / 39  
I think the word 'disgusting' is a little inappropriate here. You seem to be pretty hard to persuade so I'm not gonna try. But these units might not have any impact on the game atall, becuase no one even tried them yet! Finally I found these:

"According to the descriptions I've read on a few webshops they're only available in the single player campaign. Seems fair that people can't buy an advantage over their opponents."

"Once the game is installed and verified by Steam, players can enter their code and unlock these elite units which will then appear in the single player game."

Notice the word: single player there,
Baggies great escape!

Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Bender, be careful! That's the ship's diamond filament tether. It's unbreakable.
Bender: Then why do I have to be careful?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: It belonged to my Grandmother.

[This message has been edited by Hunterufus (edited 02-05-2009 @ 01:44 AM).]

Crue Knight
Divine Favor
(id: Crusader Knight)
posted 02-05-09 02:12 AM EDT (US)     10 / 39  
"Once the game is installed and verified by Steam, players can enter their code and unlock these elite units which will then appear in the single player game."
Well, there you go. You can always get it on Steam if you can't get it once it's released.
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¨°º¤ø„¸EPIC MOD „ø¤º°¨
¸„ø¤º°¨ IS EPIC!``°º¤ø„¸?
¸„ø¤º°¨¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º
Ex mod on: Spore - HG - RoN - RoL - N:TW
Check out my: DeviantArt - Steam
Patpat
Mariner
posted 02-05-09 02:33 AM EDT (US)     11 / 39  
nice so i should buy collection pack then
not again...
Berky
Banned
posted 02-05-09 04:12 AM EDT (US)     12 / 39  
I'll bet my life that sooner or later they'll release these units to everyone. Probably in a patch.
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-05-09 04:23 PM EDT (US)     13 / 39  
hunter, if you read the quote, you would of known that they have made the units available for multiplayer.

If they were available for everyone, or single player only, I would't have any problems with it.


As for steam download, I doubt the offer will stay up, if it does, I'll still have to go to steam to get them. I'm pretty sure I need winrar to download from steam, if not I'll still have the steam version, which is difficult to modify, and isn't compatible with some mods. Anyway, that isn't really the point.

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-05-2009 @ 06:27 PM).]

Woolagaroo
Mariner
posted 02-05-09 07:37 PM EDT (US)     14 / 39  
I can't believe I keep coming back to this topic. So much of your argument and complaints seems to be based on your own assumptions, such as the assumption that the unit pack will be taken off of Steam after a while. Yet wouldn't it make sense that, if Creative Assembly is as greedy as you say, they would leave the unit pack on Steam in order to facilitate more sales?

Quoted from deathdude612:

hunter, if you read the quote, you would of known [sic] that they have made the units available for multiplayer.
If you had read the quote, you would know that the more powerful units will be more expensive, and therefore balanced, just as everyone responding to this topic has said.

I'm not quite sure what your problem with Steam is. If it is that it might require WinRAR (unlikely), then you should be aware that it is a free program. If you just don't like Steam, then you just need to deal with it, because the game is going to be on Steam, whether you like it or not (although, ultimately you are right; this is not on-topic).

Finally, I think you just need to stop complaining. If you don't like the idea of the unit pack, don't buy it. One will still be able to be competitive on multiplayer (which you said you don't play anyway) without the units, and it has been stated that there are hundreds of units available in single-player, so you won't be missing out on too much there.
Deutschland erwartet, dass jeder Mann seine Pflicht tun wird.
Россия ожидает, что каждый исполнит свой долг.

[This message has been edited by Woolagaroo (edited 02-19-2009 @ 10:15 AM).]

Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 02-06-09 03:02 AM EDT (US)     15 / 39  
As long as their cost is appropriate for their abilities I don't have a problem with it. I don't think spamming on high money battles will be much of an issue as the armies you get will be unbalanced and thus beatable.
          Hussarknight
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-06-09 06:47 PM EDT (US)     16 / 39  
I can't believe I keep coming back to this topic. So much of your argument and complaints seems to be based on your own assumptions, such as the assumption that the unit pack will be taken off of Steam after a while. Yet wouldn't it make sense that, if Creative Assembly is as greedy as you say, they would leave the unit pack on Steam in order to facilitate more sale
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~

No, if the units are rare people will want to buy them immediately, on the other hand you may be right and they'll want to keep them on steam.


To the poster above me: Creative assembly said they are "balanced" but then again so are elephants.

Hunt is right, I don't know a whole lot, and I am jumping to a lot of conclusions. I'm going to keep this thread up, because I still believe that people should know this(a mod may feel differently, and I respect it if they do).

I won't debate anymore, because I believe I have gotten through all of my concerns in the posts I have.

I have reconsidered buying etw, I realize that it's probably someone in a monkey suit who knows nothing about total war making them do this.

I still don't like it, but I'm not as angry as before.
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-18-09 04:06 PM EDT (US)     17 / 39  
I'm back, and now I'm a bit more angry due to this.


from Direct2Drive
Empire: Total War Special Forces Edition Elite Units

* HMS Victory - The Royal Navy's most distinguished and formidable first rate ship of the line; Lord Nelson's 104 gun flagship is one of the most heavily armed ships of the 18th Century.
* Rogers' Rangers - Major Robert Rogers' company of rangers are highly trained elite light infantry, specialising in reconnaissance and special operations. They are extremely mobile in even the most challenging environments.
* Ottoman Organ Gun - A viciously powerful field gun, able to inflict incredible damage on the opposing army. Emphatic proof of the Ottoman Empire's advanced knowledge of gunpowder and firearms technology.
* Ghoorkas - "Better to die than be a coward" has been the motto of these elite Nepalese soldiers for centuries. Disciplined, tough and courageous, they carry a deadly 18-inch long, curved knife known as the kukri.
* Corso Terrestre Guerillas - An independent light infantry guerrilla regiment, experienced in skirmish and stealth tactics. Surprise raids and ambushes are the guerillas' favoured tactics, a way to compensate for their limited number and light armour.
* Bulkeley's Regiment - A French unit of Irish mercenaries with a fearsome reputation for hardiness. Exceptionally tough and resilient, they make for a highly flexible and dependable regiment.



Even if they cost more, there will still be an advantage. gotta catch'em all guys!

Still don't think there is an advantage? imagine if you couldn't use monster ribaults, sherwood archers and battlefield assassins. They are similar to some of these units, except these units are probably stronger. Even if they cost more, you will have a disadvantage against these people. Oh, and btw the "adding these units with a mod" they're probably going to put some software in to prevent that, you might getem in campaign mode, but I doubt in multiplayer. SO, not only will multiplayer be compromised, but modding to to keep them from "stealing" these units!

If that doesn't make you mad, your turning a blind eye!
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1
Eicho
Mariner
posted 02-18-09 07:48 PM EDT (US)     18 / 39  
I've never played any TW game in my life (ETW will be my first one), but I play Age of Empires (III) a lot, and use multiplayer a lot.
I agree that this elite units shouldn't be usable in multiplayer, not even if they are perfectly balanced. Because, balanced or not, this units would give more options to the person that has got the money to buy them.
In singleplayer only, that would be okay, you payed more, you've got some extra toys to play with. But in multiplayer, it makes the player that payed +10$ have more options to chose, and while it may not change the gameplay in a significant way, it might do. And that makes multiplayer play unbalanced, because one player has more options than the other.
deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-18-09 09:58 PM EDT (US)     19 / 39  
Very good point eicho, exactly the one I was trying to stress. I hear sega, the company that helps make tw games, is under tough economic times, they've already layed off 18% of their workforce, and I can understand the pressure to nickel and dime their fanbase, but they don't get it. Thq, which is also suffering, even worse than sega has been pulling stuff like this for a long time, take for example smackdown vs. raw 2009, made by thq.

They advertised "downloadable content" They didn't mention it was only available on 30% of the systems it was released on, and came with a 5$ price tag for just a few characters that should of been there in the first place, as well as some extra outfits.

They also advertised the new "create a finisher" feature, and only included it on 60% of their systems.

Sega is beginning to do the same thing, and are sinking lower into the quicksand because of it. The video game industry isn't suffering, only companies like sega and thq, that screw people over. Not because people are going on strike, but because they realize they don't have to put up with it!

Heck, they've already lost my 50$. I was planning to pre-order ETW very soon, I put it on my "to do list". Once I saw this, I originally planned to not buy it because I felt like I was going on strike, but, after a while I looked at some trailer reviews and thought,

"hey, I don't play multiplayer anyway, and the game looks awesome. Who cares if they're immoral and don't care about you, all game companies are like that, halo 2 didn't have an ending so people had to buy halo 3 just to find out what happens and nickel and diming people to death is 1000x worse in other games. Go ahead and pre-order"

I began to debate with myself on whether or not to buy this game, and while I was debating, I decided to look at other games.

I found out that, I actually DON'T have to deal with nickel and diming. I checked out virtual console on the wii shop, theres a bunch of super nintendo and n64 games that I've always wanted to play. Most of them have as much playability as modern games, but they only cost from 5-10$.

I checked out console games and much more. I now don't plan to buy this game, not because of going on strike, but because It's not actually as good as I thought.
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1
rob_redcoat
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 01:12 AM EDT (US)     20 / 39  
I don't mind buying extra units. Ive brought this up before and everyone ignores the point, but I dont like how they have extra units, beyond these six, when you preorder at particular outlets.

For example, Ive preordered the special forces at JB HiFi. I get the above 6 units plus I get the USS Constitution.

I have seen at least 2 other types of units available at particular retailers that I will never have because I wont buy 3 versions of the game from 3 retailers.

Its these units that I have an issue with, its unfair I cant even have an opportunity to get them.

Maybe they will be released later I dont know.
Hunterufus
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 01:35 AM EDT (US)     21 / 39  
Deathdude, you seem to have a problem with this SF edition don't you?

Firstly, I cannot believe that you hadn't already heard about all this stuff months ago!

Secondly, I don't like repeating myself so I'm not going to bother.

Lastly, beacuase of your exploits on the wii, are we no longer going to hear from you on this matter?
Baggies great escape!

Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Bender, be careful! That's the ship's diamond filament tether. It's unbreakable.
Bender: Then why do I have to be careful?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: It belonged to my Grandmother.

[This message has been edited by Hunterufus (edited 02-19-2009 @ 01:40 AM).]

rob_redcoat
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 03:17 AM EDT (US)     22 / 39  
Exploits on the Wii?????

Do fill us in!!
Woolagaroo
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 10:13 AM EDT (US)     23 / 39  
Deathdude, you're obviously not going to change your mind on this matter (even though your argument is based purely upon your own unfounded assumptions), which is your right. But if you're that strongly against the game, why not just not buy it and leave it at that? What is the point of this thread?
Furthermore, why did you feel the need to repost in this thread? It had basically died when you made a new post, which as far as I could tell, contained no new information or thoughts. That's dangerously close to spam, friend.
Deutschland erwartet, dass jeder Mann seine Pflicht tun wird.
Россия ожидает, что каждый исполнит свой долг.

[This message has been edited by Woolagaroo (edited 02-19-2009 @ 10:16 AM).]

deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 11:31 AM EDT (US)     24 / 39  
No new information? Before, your main arguments were "unfounded information" and "assumptions". You were right, they were mainly assumptions. I now have information to back up what I was saying.


from Direct2Drive
Empire: Total War Special Forces Edition Elite Units

* HMS Victory - The Royal Navy's most distinguished and formidable first rate ship of the line; Lord Nelson's 104 gun flagship is one of the most heavily armed ships of the 18th Century.
* Rogers' Rangers - Major Robert Rogers' company of rangers are highly trained elite light infantry, specialising in reconnaissance and special operations. They are extremely mobile in even the most challenging environments.
* Ottoman Organ Gun - A viciously powerful field gun, able to inflict incredible damage on the opposing army. Emphatic proof of the Ottoman Empire's advanced knowledge of gunpowder and firearms technology.
* Ghoorkas - "Better to die than be a coward" has been the motto of these elite Nepalese soldiers for centuries. Disciplined, tough and courageous, they carry a deadly 18-inch long, curved knife known as the kukri.
* Corso Terrestre Guerillas - An independent light infantry guerrilla regiment, experienced in skirmish and stealth tactics. Surprise raids and ambushes are the guerillas' favoured tactics, a way to compensate for their limited number and light armour.
* Bulkeley's Regiment - A French unit of Irish mercenaries with a fearsome reputation for hardiness. Exceptionally tough and resilient, they make for a highly flexible and dependable regiment.
Thats more than just some skins. After this new informaton, I won't take this thread down unless it is locked or a moderator asks it, or after I feel that the word is out. The totalwar fanbase DESERVES to know this kind of injustice is going on. CA should of taken away the units from multiplayer, they didn't.

Also, you talk to me about spam? Almost all of your posts have been personal attacks, and saying I should get off the forums. Now, you two have made your point clear you don't want me here, and that you are disgusted with me. I still have a point to make. Now, if you want to let anyone who views this thread what you think about me, go ahead you're welcome to. I still like, and play MTW and RTW because they're great games with fair multiplayer. I'm still involved in the total war community, despite my strong dislike for CA's actions, and the fact that I don't plan to buy etw.

Hunter, you badly want me to get off these forums, but, unless I am asked by a moderator to, I won't. In the 80s and 90s, gaming companies tried this kind of stuff all the time, and they got away with it because the only time someone found out was from a friend. If you know that multiplayer is unfair, and yet you still play, that's your business, and I have no problem. However, people deserve to know what they're buying.


If it weren't for disgusting, annoying abominating piles of scum like me, who write reviews, complements and criticisms for games(I admit, I'm heavy on criticism) You would waste money on games that you don't want. You plan to buy ETW, but you can't tell me that you've never read a review that didn't change your mind, and made you not buy a horrible game, tw or not.
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-19-2009 @ 11:35 AM).]

Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 02-19-09 12:27 PM EDT (US)     25 / 39  
I haven't posted here but I have been reading the thread. Just before this goes down the road I think it may be going down...

At Total War Heaven, we're all for discussion, exchange of views and debate. As long as this thread and it's participants are prepared to debate the points, it'll stay open. If it veers into a yelling match or a non-productive circular argument, we'll cast it into the burning chasm of hellfire behind my house.

That is all.
-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid
Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce
Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 02-19-09 12:30 PM EDT (US)     26 / 39  
Yeah, keep it nice everyone.
          Hussarknight

[This message has been edited by Hussarknight (edited 02-19-2009 @ 12:37 PM).]

Hunterufus
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 12:34 PM EDT (US)     27 / 39  
The 80's and 90's? What a time they were...

On a related note:

I can see your not going to back down, and like me, you prefer to have people see your points of view. So I hope someone else can make you change your mind on this matter.
Baggies great escape!

Professor Hubert Farnsworth: Bender, be careful! That's the ship's diamond filament tether. It's unbreakable.
Bender: Then why do I have to be careful?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: It belonged to my Grandmother.

[This message has been edited by Hunterufus (edited 02-19-2009 @ 12:57 PM).]

deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 01:50 PM EDT (US)     28 / 39  
This isn't really going anywhere, I'm going to leave the thread open until Monday, that will allow people to see it over the weekend, then I will edit all my posts. I don't want to cause trouble.
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-19-2009 @ 01:51 PM).]

Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 02-19-09 02:13 PM EDT (US)     29 / 39  
Err mate. It's the mods who decide what threads get closed. Also abusing your right to edit posts is not on. Just leave the thread alone if you're not happy with the outcome. There's a discussion worth having on the Special Forces pack. Who knows? After release, somebody may well agree with what you've said.

Vandalising it and preventing anybody else having a say doesn't reflect well on anyone.
-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid
Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce
Woolagaroo
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 02:29 PM EDT (US)     30 / 39  
I'm sorry if what I said was interpreted as a personal attack, that was not my intention. As for my assertion that your post contained no new information, I stand by that. The descriptions of the units you posted as 'new information' have been around for a while. Also, the fact that these units were going to be more powerful was never disputed, I even said it in some of my earlier posts in this thread. As for your argument that CA should stick to balanced multiplayer like RTW, I think you should examine that game a little more closely. Not only do the Romans, because of Marian reforms, sport more unit types than other factions, but their units (especially post-marian) are stronger than other factions. Therefore much of what you see on RTW multiplayer is Roman factions, followed closely by Greeks because of superior Spartan hoplites.

Finally, my point before was that after you said that you had made your argument and were going to leave the thread alone, you came back and made a redundant (see my argument above) post. To me, it seemed like you were simply trying to bump your post after it reached the 10 day expiration mark, which would be consistent with your stated goal of "getting the word out to the Total War fanbase".
Deutschland erwartet, dass jeder Mann seine Pflicht tun wird.
Россия ожидает, что каждый исполнит свой долг.

[This message has been edited by Woolagaroo (edited 02-19-2009 @ 02:30 PM).]

deathdude612
Mariner
posted 02-19-09 04:02 PM EDT (US)     31 / 39  
to gaius:I was only going to edit my posts, I acutally didn't even know it was possible to edit others. If you want me to keep it up, I will, I just didn't want to cause a flame war. Sorry for coming off as arrogant.


To wool: Yes, your right the romans are quite possibly the best faction in the game, however they are available to everyone. These units are only available to the people who pay extra. RTW was unbalanced, but not unfair.

As for the personal attack, thank you for the apology, I accept it; although I was mainly talking about hunterfus.
Betrayed by total war? Last minute game change that will
give people who pay 10$ extra an advantage in multiplayer. Must read
http://etw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,232,,30
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/41604/t/Special-Forces-and-Pre-order-Units-update.html?page=1

[This message has been edited by deathdude612 (edited 02-19-2009 @ 04:09 PM).]

crazycloud
Mariner
posted 03-07-09 06:25 AM EDT (US)     32 / 39  
Hey all!

Well, Empire is finally released. Possibly the greatest strategy game to ever grace our systems? Probably. Yet here I am, aghast that some gamers are griping over a £5 ($10) fee for some great special units! Sorry, but I feel this is a small price to pay for a nice added extra to an already monumental game. Lets face it, we have in our grasp a superb title that either with or without the special units.
We've all played the Total War franchise enough to know that these "special units" will cost an arm and a leg in multiplayer, the guys at creative assembly aren't stupid, the cost of having them in your army will mean other areas of your chosen force will be weakened. Whats the issue? Plus, if you don't want to battle using special units, specify it within the rules you set for each particular battle! C'mon, it ain't rocket science!

At the end of the day, the peeps behind this colossus of a game should recieve a collective doffing of all our caps rather than bitching over a very small and utterly insignificant £5 voluntary upgrade.

Total War, I salute you! *doffs cap*

CrazyCloud
Primo
Mariner
(id: Marcus Orentius)
posted 03-14-09 02:09 PM EDT (US)     33 / 39  
You do realise the moment people are able to, these will be modded into the default game?
Exilian - a website for mods for Mount&Blade, Rome Total War, Empire Total War and news about Shogun 2: Total War
"There is no extreme metal, death metal, progressive metal or vegetarian metal." - Tryhard
"Light infantry, rangers, and riflemen all have the unique ability to pull yard-long poles from their arseholes and plant them in order to stave off cavalry." - BurningSushi460
Cheesewiz
HG Alumnus
posted 03-14-09 11:17 PM EDT (US)     34 / 39  
Makes me wonder if they don't have some clever system to prevent modding those specific units in.

Oh well.
Ex-Seraph Cheesewiz - Former WICH Webmaster, AOE3H Webmaster, & RTWH Staff, HeavenGames LLC
World_in_Conflict_Heaven || Age_of_Empires_III_Heaven || Support_HeavenGames || The_Playpen || Do_The_Right_Thing
Primo
Mariner
(id: Marcus Orentius)
posted 03-15-09 01:51 AM EDT (US)     35 / 39  
The same happened with M2TW/Kingdoms. I doubt they have, and if they have, Then how hard would it be to make clones?
Exilian - a website for mods for Mount&Blade, Rome Total War, Empire Total War and news about Shogun 2: Total War
"There is no extreme metal, death metal, progressive metal or vegetarian metal." - Tryhard
"Light infantry, rangers, and riflemen all have the unique ability to pull yard-long poles from their arseholes and plant them in order to stave off cavalry." - BurningSushi460
New Roman
Mariner
posted 03-25-09 11:02 PM EDT (US)     36 / 39  
Well sega has been screwing me over for a couple years now. I bought Rome Total War about 5 times because the CD Keys that came with the game didnt work, when i contacted sega with pictures of the Keys, my game, and a photocopy of the receipt, all they did was say "Oh well there is nothing we can really do" Hopefully i wont have this problem with Steam.
justgotowned
Mariner
posted 03-26-09 04:46 PM EDT (US)     37 / 39  
The good news is that I haven't seen any special units in any of the multiplayer battles. The HMS Victory and the US Constitution are the hard ones because nothing can touch them in sea battles from what I can tell.
nerdydodge
Mariner
posted 03-27-09 04:30 PM EDT (US)     38 / 39  
Hello! I've been lurking on the forums for a few days now, but this thread has drawn me into registering and posting.

I own the special forces edition and I've played some multiplayer, so I'd like to offer my opinion on these unique units which seem to have people so worried about balance.

I'll start off by talking about cost; unique units are hellishly expensive in multiplayer compared to their normal counterparts. A unit of Ghoorkas is among the most expensive early period units in a British army, with HMS Victory having a comparable cost to a heavy first rate. Roger's Rangers and Spanish Guerillas are cheaper, as these are lower end units, but still rarely (in my opinion) deliver value for the money you spend on them compared to normal units. If anything, I think CA has tipped the scales very much against the unique units, there are only a few situations where it is more cost effective to use them than another unit. This means I might get more options, usually 1-2 additional unit choices, but I'd rarely use them.

Most special forces units have a comparable 'normal' unit which costs less but performs slightly worse (usually morale or loading skill) than they do. I'll take HMS Victory and the Guerillas as examples of this, Victory sitting somewhere between a first rate and a heavy first rate and the Guerillas being about as dependable as minutemen. These really aren't too useful for too much beyond the novelty of having a named unit, or perhaps distracting players without special forces who become instantly wary of them. In almost any situation in the line of battle (naval or land) the special forces units are just like any other unit, they certainly aren't invulnerable to bullets!

A special forces unit has only made an above average contribution in one multiplayer battle I've played, where my Ghoorkas were able to advance into and charge some Dutch line troops who were pursuing my light infantry into thick woodland. Only in odd situations like this are the advantages of the special forces units worth having, the melee ability of the Ghoorkas able to charge unhampered by enemy musketry. That said, Hindu or Islamic swordsmen could have filled the same role for an Indian army, which would once again have pushed out the more expensive Ghoorkas.

I'm not going to rant that I as a Special Forces buyer have been ripped off with useless units by CA, but I don't see them having much impact on multiplayer games.
Gaius Colinius
Seraph Emeritus
posted 03-29-09 02:08 PM EDT (US)     39 / 39  
Welcome to the forums nerdydodge. Excellent first post. I don't have the Special Forces units myself but from what I've seen of them, I am completely in agreement with you.
-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid
Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce
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