Empire: Total War Heaven

The problem I've always had as India is expanding outside of the subcontinent. It seems to me that India is in a hopeless position, as far as expanding outside of India itself is concerned. For that reason, I have not played them more than twice simply because once the Mughal Empire, Mysore, and the Europeans are kicked out there's nothing left to do.

However, there is the option of the Americas. Populations there are small, and therefore relatively easy to mass-convert to Hinduism. They can also provide an excellent source of trade wealth and eventually be a springboard into Europe (America is significantly closer to the European theatre than India).

Nevertheless, that means conflict with Europe. At any rate, you'll need a powerful navy and sufficient funds to support the initial invasion. You'll also need to patrol your trade routes and keep your sea lanes open. With all those islands and forests, conquering the Americas can be tricky without adequate naval transport.

Typically, once the first few colonial territories are established, no more expeditionary forces are required and the colonies can begin to fend for themselves (i.e., pay their own way for troops, new buildings, etc.).

Is there any unit the Marathas has that uses fire-by-rank?

No, I'm afraid. That will haunt you when the time comes to fight Europeans.

Well, I have taken most of the straits of Madagascar, the only other trading 'cells' belong to the Ottomans and Sweden, both of whom are trade partners.

Since trade with France and Sweden is so constantly blockaded, should I bother trading with them at all, or cancel them and try to find other trade routes? When they're open for short periods of time they are very profitable, but most of the time they are closed and useless.

If the trade routes are constantly being blockaded you're best of cancelling those trade agreements. The goods that used to go there will now be sent to your other trade partners so you won't lose money. The only danger is that the chance of all nations cancelling your trade agreements gets bigger, but that depends on how many you have.

As to the geopolitical situation, I would try to expand into the Americas. They're generally easier to conquer and there are more trade goods there. You'll also have to worry less about troop shipments getting attacked since you can send them via the pacific and land in Mexico.

Expanding into the Middle-East isn't worth the effort as the regions are quite poor and not worth risking your trade agreement with the Ottomans. I'm sure Afghanistan is doing a fine job of being a bufferzone so I'd leave them be.

And yes, you are stuck without Fire-by-Rank which will be a big hurdle once you go into Europe, so I'd put that of as long as possible.

Ok, my current situation is thus:

I have an army sitting in an Afghan fort, close to the border, in order to keep them under control.

I have started expanding into the Ivory coast, and defeated a British trade fleet there, capturing an indiaman and a Second Rate, the latter of which is being sent back to India for repairs.

I'll cancel trade with Sweden, but keep trade with France as it is only a poor Austrian navy that is blockading the port my trade happens in, and they are now landlocked and have no chance of replenishing their navy.

Expanding via the pacific is a good idea, not sure if I want to come to blows with Spain just yet though.

EDIT: Attempted to get a foothold in the east indies, but hadn't counted on a British fleet, which promptly disintegrated my fleet of Dhows. I now have a navy being built to retaliate.

On the plus side, their trade goes through my theatre, and since I am the only naval power there, I can raid their routes at my leisure.

I took out the Austrian fleet blockading France, and now trade with France has been freed up, and I am currently getting close to 10000 gold a turn. I have most of the Ivory coast now as well as the straits of Madagascar, so the East Indies are the only trade theatre left to control.

[This message has been edited by Primo (edited 05-21-2010 @ 02:55 PM).]

On the plus side, their trade goes through my theatre, and since I am the only naval power there, I can raid their routes at my leisure.

Actually, I've found this is a very plausible form of making money. Just snatch all of it from their trade routes! haha

Often, I'll place full-stack fleets right in front of an enemy's main port to raid ALL of the shipping going through that port. When fighting the Ottomans as Russia, I had a full-stack army raid their land trade rout out of Istanbul. Each unit takes 5% of the money from the route, so 20 units is 100% of their money. I stole 8,000g from the Ottomans' trade, forcing them into bankruptcy, a revolution, and then subordination to me.

I'm so evil

Hello

I was in the same situatrion as you were at the begining of this Thread...

I headed for The carrabian and took the pirate settlements.. then drove north and took out the Inuit i think.. the ones on the north East of canada, above Newfoundland. While doing this i constucted a Military barracks at the pirates Capital and Recruited a 10 unit island hopping stack... SInce in my campagin i was at war with Spain i used by big army to take over the South American Territories while my Island hoppers took Cuba, the other one and Florida for a toehold on mainland America.....

It was a pretty succesful move...

Hi,

To begin with I like the way you think TKWarrior17. Plonking a stack outside an enemy capital and stealing all their trade is a real money earner. Not sure what impact this tactic has on trade relations with other nations. It might go down.

Regarding India, unlike other nations the Marathas have the opportunity to gain control of an entire theatre very quickly. Once achieved I've found the best think to do immediately is destroy Afghanistan then disband all your military forces, make peace with anyone you are at war with and open as many trade routes as possible. In short take a deep breath and develop your economy, ports, industry, and techs.

After about ten turns or so developing and earing loads of money I always think the best way forward is throwing everything against the Ottomans (which seems to fly against what other gamers are saying). There is a good reason for this tactic. The Marathas can focus all their military forces and bramens on just one front, which is very reassuring. I've never known the AI to launch a sneak attack on India from the rear. About 3/4 turns before attacking the Ottomans cancel your trade alliance to reduce the negative effects on diplomacy. Build three full stack armies and go in and take out the Ottomans (you've taken out Persia first of course so Isfahan will be a good springboard city).

Its easier to take the Middle East as Ottoman forces are on a par with your forces, and your Sikhs are devastating. Furthermore you won't upset the Europeans as you storm through the Near East. Also, I disagree that Ottoman/Persian provinces are poor. No way!! Textile industry and techs make these provinces very rich. Also, if you are able to take both Guyana provinces you will have a trade monolpoly on spices.

I've never really bothered with the trading theatres in East Indies or anywhere as the cost is prohibitive to protect such trade navies. In fact, I didn't have a navy as the Marathas which saved so much money for development. Favour being a land power and raise three full stack armies to conquer the Middle East and North Africa & Caucasus.

Cheers.

I, too, have gone the way Sublime suggested and conquered the Ottoman Empire. While it was easier than going up against a European nation, I noticed that you cannot, actually, concentrate all of your forces on that front, at least not in my experience. Playing on Hard campaign difficulty, the British were continuosly at war with me, and in the course of the first 50 years of the game, they tried to invade India 4 or 5 times (not to mention a couple of raids by the UP). While that's only once every 10 or 15 years, they did so, generally, with vastly larger fleets than I could muster (several 2nd Rates in each), and superior land forces. It was all I could do to keep them from gaining a foothold on India, and I was usually unable to intercept their fleet before it landed its forces.

So don't neglect to keep a rear guard near Satara or Mysore, especially if you're at war with Great Britain. In order to win, they have to conquer both Bijapur and Bengal, so if you're not ready to give a warm leaden welcome, you may regret it.

I decided to destroy Persia and the Ottomans, then I launched an attack into the Americas with two full stacks. I took Florida and one other place made peace with Britain and then got an army ambushed and almost destroyed by the Cherokees who could some how afford about 3 full stacks. got so disappointed with that I started a Prussia campaign... don't do that =P.

The first "Global Domination" campaign I won was as the Marathas in VH/VH. India is SOOOooo rich! Of course Mysore declared war on me on about turn 2, and I think Great Britain declared war on turn 1 or shortly thereafter.

GB attacked me every 10 years or so, usually with a full stack conveyed to India in a HUGE navy. I never tried to defeat their navy (at this point), but made sure I had one troop occupying each and every port. That way the Brits couldn't sail into a port and immediately march their army to attack one of my cities. They had to land the troops and wait at least one turn before the troops could lay siege somewhere. I had about two full stacks of pretty good troops sitting around in forts between Mysore and Calcutta so that I could usually get at least one stack against the Brits in time to defeat the siege, or at least to make them regret having taken my city by the 2nd turn afterwards.

After I consolidated control of all of India, then I slowly worked north and northwest to defeat Afthanistan, Persia, Georgia (since they foolishly declared war on me), the Ottamans, and finally Venice (all of whom declared war on me at their own peril). I also took all of Northern Africa. My European adventure came to an end with 3 full stacks in and around Venice, fending off attacks every other turn or so from the French, Spanish, Italian States, or somebody else. These 3 stacks managed to hold the area for the entire rest of the game, against probably 40 attacks.

Spain or France finally knocked off UP, so I immediately conquered the rebels occupying Ceylon, and then sailed into the Caribbean and picked off the rebels who occupied the former UP provinces there. Somewhere along the line I conquered the Pirates, and all the British, Spanish and French islands. Then I started building up my navy at the expense of the British navy --- I never built one warship higher than a 4th rate, but eventually picked up 4 or 5 Heavy 1sts, several 1sts, 2nds, 3rds, from the Brits -- every time they foolishly offered me a naval battle with 1 vs 1 or better odds.

I conscienciously occupied all the trade nodes in the East Indies during the long 35-year period when I was the big dog on the board -- therefore won the "Maharaja of India" challenge. [In subsequent campaigns I won "Emperor of Europe" as Prussia, and "Ruler of the Americas" as Great Britain].

I would look at trade and take over trade theaters. once you have trade theaters and a strong Navy, decide Americas or Europe and attach rebel States or Pirates, thus not upsetting any large nations until you want to.

So, I took the plunge and attacked Spain in Central America. I was worried since they were allied to Russia, which accounted for the vast majority of my trade income, which in turn was propping up my empire. Luckily only France declare war on me, the Russians broke their alliance with the Dons. Phew!

After taking over a woefully undefended Guatemala, I can go either way to expand into the Americas.

In other news, the British surprised me in the East Indies with a powerful fleet. Lucky it was heavily damaged, so despite destroying my initial fleet, the second fleet wiped the floor with them. I captured every single one. Russia is right next to me now, the Ottomans are all but evicted from Turkey and the Middle East, and the Mamelukes have risen up in Cairo against their Spanish masters.

Wow... the AI is useless. My army got intercepted by two French armies, and they spent most of the battle reforming and reforming endlessly, until the soldiers were worn out. I then decided to march forwards and put them out of their misery.

On the other hand, when they brought fire by rank volleys to bear, they were quite devastating, even when fired by exhausted troops. I hate to think what a fresh unit could do to my men. Since I don't have fire by rank on my side, what tactics can I employ to minimize casualties from this method? Cavalry is an option, but I prefer to save them for flanking and taking out artillery. Perhaps using more melee infantry, which the Maratha have quite a selection of?

Unless you want to have to replenish heavily depleted units after every battle, I think you're going to have to rely to a considerable degree on out-classing them in artillery.

If you catch them while they're still forming up, then melee can be very useful, otherwise ...

Charging melee units towards formed lines of line infantry with fire-by-rank researched is a sure recipe for disaster. Even more so if the line infantry also have upgraded bayonets, because then they can pretty much match you hand-to-hand.

You can win, but you'll suffer heavy casualties.

Whenever im them i ussualy take control of india, middle east, northafrice , balkens, italy and central eupore then either britain or the americas