Empire: Total War Heaven

Right near my house there is an old paper mill. It certainly isn't as old as Kor's castle, but it's something.

When I was in Russia I went through an old looking gate on a whim. Inside was a very large, very old, and very beautiful monastery. If I can dig of my pictures of it I'll post them.

Following Legio,
in my village, there is one of the oldest medieval lavatory (14th assumed). It is simply a pool 20 metres long by 8 wide with an insured flow of clean stream water.

It was dilapidated, until a school of architects decided that their 2nd year training course would deal will restoring it.

----
For tourist places, I am still waiting for Sudan to be opened. We shall find there relics more ancient than the ancient Egyptians. I am dreaming of cities (or whatever alike) as old as 4.000 B.C.

Is near my flat. About three hundred yards in fact. Sadly little is original, or even properly medieval, there having been substantial Elizabethan redevelopment. But the gatehouse is Norman and at least parts of the walls are 14th century.

Prince Hal thumbed his nose at Mortimer's rebels from those very walls. And Harry Hotspur's body was displayed just up the street.

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Is an arial view.

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Is a C16 plan of the town. Sadly the town walls survive only as a street name. It gives a good idea of the natural strength of the position, the river providing a substantial natural moat with the castle guarding the thin neck of land.

[This message has been edited by D Furius Venator (edited 11-07-2007 @ 04:17 PM).]

The resort and spa near my house is built on what Hernando De Soto thought was the fountain of youth.

http://www.safetyharborspa.com/about_us/history.asp

This is named Nidarosdomen. Nidaros was the name of the town back in the ages, and Domen is dome in English(obviously) The city is named Trondheim today.

King Olav Haraldson, whom was killed in the battle of Stiklestad, witch was the last stand of the farmers who didn't want Norway to be christianiest, was buries on the bank of Nidelven(the river of Nid). One year and five days later he was cannonised, and pilgrims started to visit the tomb. The constuction of the cathedral started in 1070, and it's glory days was around 1300.

Nidarosdomen is today, or was the 3rd most important church/cathedral for pilgrimage. I can't remember if it was that earlier, or still is.

After centuries of decay, it is under constant restoration, and has been been for about 130 years now.

It is 102m x 50m x 26m.

This is my town; Link rollY=0
(press "flyfoto" to get plane photographs)

Btw, the city was founded by Olav Trygvason for it's defencive location. The river acted as a natural defence, a wall that was erected from the sea to the river defended the town from land attack. Only in the late 19th century the town urbaniezed beyonde the river, before that, it was only farmland.

The name Kristiansten is the fortress of the city(the best preserved in Norway; link ollY=0
(FLYFOTO!!!! to see the walls )

Haha, damned() Sweeds captured the town, but not the fortress. They didn't bring sufficient artillery, pluss they had to digg up cannonballs shot from Kristiansten at them, and fire back, because they where out of ammo...

Here is a closeup birdview of Nidarosdomen; link

Wikipage; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidarosdomen

More pictures; link


Hope you enjoy =)

Edit: Press "Skråfoto" to see pictures form the side(45 degree angle).

[This message has been edited by Gaius Colinius (edited 11-26-2007 @ 07:17 PM).]

Hey Spartamaran, thanks for the pictures, but can you turn the urls into links? Put the urls between [ url=http://...]Link name[/ url] tags; that way they won't stretch the page.

Also, pictures from my trip to Burgundy a few years back, including descriptions I wrote at the time:

Despite spending most of my holiday in France in bed due to a throat infection, I managed to visit the castle of Berzé-le-Chatel and the town of Cluny, once housing the largest Cathedral on the planet - Napoleon had it demolished, so only one wing exists today, still the size of a proper Cathedral on its own.

First, my visit to Cluny. I couldn't actually find the way to the Cathedral remains, as Cluny is a maze of tiny streets making odd turns. Every time you think a street will lead you there, you end up somewhere completely different.
However, I did manage to find two beautiful watch towers.
Tower 1
Note how the tower has been adjusted to support hand gunners.

Tower 2
Obviously there was a wooden hoarding running along the top there, but sadly that is no longer the case.

Then, on to Berzé-le-Chatel. I had never heard of it before, but there was a map in Cluny showing the various sights in the vicinity. It's a 50 km drive from Cluny, following the touristic route to Mâcon. The castle quickly becomes visible, as it dominates the valley.

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6
Picture 7
Picture 8
Picture 9

It is truly a very nice castle, built in the 13th century; it received very little alterations since then. It has a grand total of 13 towers. Also, it is still inhabited by a French noble family. During the Bourguignon-Armagnac civil war the castle was captured by the Armagnacs during a siege, but the Bourguignons managed to recapture it allegedly by using a secret entrance - which has never been found.

Last but not least, when in Burgundy, keep your eyes open. There's lizards all over the place, and as their way of escaping your attention is sitting very very quiet while you approach them, you can take a good look at them (if you spot them, that is). Despite being bed-ridden for all but three days of my holiday, I managed to spot 5 of them.
Picture!

[This message has been edited by Kor (edited 11-16-2007 @ 10:52 AM).]

Problem: I don't know how to post pictures in a forum reply!

It is explained on the BB Code page (here). Basically put, you paste the image location (a http:// address) between [ img]http://[/ img] tags. Leave out the spaces in the image tags and it should work (images over a certain size will be displayed as links rather than as pictures).

This is the original Shrewsbury School. Founded in 1552, one of the first schools to be 'open to the public' (ie not restricted to scions of the nobility). It is now the town library (the sons of the effluent classes are educated at a newer site). Darwin studied here (it is his statue that stands outside).

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Sorry Spartamaran but your links were breaking the forum template so I edited the BB code to trim it down a little.

Kor
Apologies. I've been meaning to post some pics here for a long time. I have so many pics with so little time but I will get to it.

The castle on Eilean Donan is rather romantically situated.

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The wikipedia article is pretty decent really:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eilean_Donan

Beware though, if ever you are passing, don'tbe tempted to pay the admission fee. The interior holds precious little of interest save to those fascinated by collections of C19 and C20 nick nacks. There's a semi decent historical display but to be honest it tells you no more than Wikipedia.

This is an interesting link for those who travel in France and are interested in old castles:

http://www.casteland.com

The following picture is a 3D rendering of Chateau-Gaillard, the "daughter" of Richard Lionheart
The ruins can be seen today in Normandy, as archaeologists are trying to save this landmark of medieval architecture from oblivion
For more 3D rendering:
http://www.virtuhall.com

[IMG]http://www.virtuhall.com/virtuel/platinium/gaillard.htm[IMG]

Regrettably I don't have any capacity to put my pictures online as yet, but for the English/Scottish tourist, I recommend the field of Culloden (albeit that it's outside our traditional era of interest ) in Scotland.

The ground itself is, well, a pretty wide swathe of open heather and swamplike terrain, but they still have some decent markers where the lines of the English and their allies and the lines of Bonnie Prince Charlie's highlanders stood.

Standing on the field, even a raw amateur like myself has to stand aghast at how miserable a tactical decision was made on that field. The pretender took an army of close-in, hand-to-hand experts -- the highland clansmen -- and took away their main advantage on their home ground: the cover on the tops of the hills. Instead he stood them on a flat, level battlefield and let them absorb cannon fire from English artillery which had their range.

And then he charged them straight into raised muskets.

Pointless. Absolutely pointless.

About Saintheart comment: Unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately for the enemy) history abounds with such pointless decisions. In your example of Culloden, it means being exactly where the enemy wants you. Like Artois charging into the town of Mansurah, like another Artois charging at Courtrai, like Agincourt, like Talbot at Castillon.

One rare exception: Morat. The Swiss won, yet they had emerged exactly where Charles the Bold expected them. But it was Lunchbreak for the Burgundians !

One rare exception: Morat. The Swiss won, yet they had emerged exactly where Charles the Bold expected them. But it was Lunchbreak for the Burgundians !

Or, rather, the Burgundians had given up on the idea that the Swiss would accept their offer of battle and were starting to pack up and withdraw. When the Swiss arrived there was no Burgundian battleline left and the hurriedly assembled picket line of archers stood no chance against the Swiss, who were far more numerous than the entire Burgundian army let alone the archers.

When I said Lunchbreak, we all know it wasn't just only because Burgundians were hungry after a morning under the rain. But it expresses well the derision and ridicule of the situtation, where an army leaves most of its well prepared defensive positions without proper scouting. Could Charles have won that one is another story ...

When I said Lunchbreak, we all know it wasn't just only because Burgundians were hungry after a morning under the rain.

The problem with statements such as those is that other people might not know, in which case they think the Burgundians were having a lunchbreak, because that is what you said. It is, however, as near to the truth as saying they had accidentally sent all their weapons to the moon in an early model spacecraft.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Posted previously elsewhere at Heavengames (though, I do believe, not at TWH), here are some pictures from Bruges.
City Gate 1 and City Gate 2

Wooden house and Gothic house
Two old houses, age unknown. One is clearly in Gothic style but may be newer (the door is clearly non-Gothic, doesn't even have a decorated frame). The other is a marked world heritage monument (the blue/white triangles thingy) so must have some monumental value.

The Gruuthuse Palace and close-up
The palace of the lords of Gruuthuse. Neerlandicists theorise that the family emblem of a cannonball (middle Dutch 'lode') leaving ('wijc') the cannon (shown on either side of the motto PLUS EST EN VOUS) is a visualisation of the name of the lord who had this palace built: Lodewijc of Gruuthuse. This could mean that these nobles could speak Dutch as well as French, the court language.

Our Lady's Church and from another angle
The Our Lady's Church, supposedly the tallest brick-only tower in the world, nay, the universe! Charles the Bold and Mary of Burgundy are buried inside, and it also houses the coats of arms of the knights of the Golden Fleece as painted in the 1460's.

The Battle of Othee - 1408

This battle is described in some detail in an article in the history section, but for the first time I visited the site myself this morning.

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The tumulus around which the Liégeois formed up their army in a sort of triangular shape, seen from the village side (though it's actually a bit away from the village) facing in the direction of Tongeren.

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Seen from the foot of the tumulus, this shows the approach of the Burgundian army. To the right of the centre there is a rather large group of trees. In the centre of that cluster you can see a tall church tower rising well above the treeline; it's Tongeren's main church. To the right of that you can see, among the trees, a sort of whitish structure; that's the gate to the castle of Hamal. The Burgundian army was positioned there and would have approached from that direction.
The chronicles report it had rained the previous day, and the slight dip in the landscape you can see was wet, though it proved to be no hindrance to the Burgundian approach.
Note that this view is from the foot of the tumulus; seeing as the mound itself is about ten metres high at least, the view from there is even better - but as it is overgrown with trees I couldn't take pictures as the branches obscured the view.

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The battle is commemorated with this commemorative plaque and a little chapel. To liven it up, a decorative Christmas tree has been placed there as well as a bunch of pellets, for no apparent reason. This is by far the oddest war memorial I have ever seen.

Text on the plaque, translated:
"To the glorious memory of the Liégeois warriors who died at the battle of Othee 23-9-1408 for protecting rights and freedoms"

No mention of the Burgundians or that the protection of rights and freedoms was accompanied with pillage and murder and death.

Addendum:
When the people of Tongeren saw the battle in the distance, they sortied and started the approximately 8 km march to the battlefield to aid the people of Liège. However, they did not arrive in time; when the Liégeois were defeated, a detachment of Burgundian heavy cavalry attacked them. The Tongrois were routed and annihilated. Had they made it back they perhaps would have seen the old Roman wall:
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The city of Tongeren was probably the biggest of Roman settlements in the Low Countries. The city walls were so extensive that the citizens, incapable of defending them, abandoned the place at the start of the Middle Ages. Later on, life returned to the city, but the new settlement was small compared to the modern city. The wall shown here was left to decay for centuries; only recently, in the post WW2 period, did housing return to this part of town. The wall now serves to protect the gardens of modern houses. This photo was taken from the side of a football field, as the goal posts on the grass indicate.
The base of the tower is about a metre high. The entire wall rises to 1,5-2 metres. The city centre of Tongeren also has a Roman wall, which was modernised during the Middle Ages and is in much better shape.

[This message has been edited by Kor (edited 12-27-2007 @ 09:24 AM).]

Apologies for neglecting this thread for so long. I was in Rome last January and here are some snaps I took of ancient Roman ruins (Medieval/Papal stuff to come in another post).
The photos appear in reverse order to that in which they were taken. Blame photobucket!


The tomb of Saint Therese (?) in the Pantheon in Rome.


This is the inside of the Pantheon. It's the best preserved ancient Roman building in Rome because it was turned into a church.


The "hole" in the roof of the Pantheon is extremely cool.


This is Trajan's column and it was taken by night.


If you want to see the building where Caesar was assassinated, you'll be sorely disappointed as it no longer exists but this is where it used to stand.


Same building from a different angle.


We were all excited about seeing the circus Maximus and were a little disappointed to find the grassy in the picture hillocks above. It's a popular spot for jogging.


At the back of Palatine hill, there were some nice trees that are apparently a few hundred years old. They don't have all that much historical significance but they look nice.


This is a view of the Roman forum from the top of Palatine hill.


A rather modern looking villa at the top of Palatine hill.





You can see the remains of the temples of Saturn & Jupiter in this pic. Also note the more modern Christian buildings dotted about the forum.


It amazing when you consider that much of this stuff is over 200 years old. I'm sure somebody has been cutting the grass in the meantime though.


More views of the Roman forum. I'm not sure what the colossal building in the background is though.


The place is reasonably well preserved considering how long it has been there and the neglect it has suffered but tourists need to be kept away from the ruins in order to keep it that way.


This is a very cool fountain on the way up to the top of the Palatine hill.


A Ground view of the Roman forum.


Temple of Jupiter I think.


The arch of Septimus Severus if I'm not mistaken.


The same arch from a distance.


More views of the Roman Forum.


The arch of Tiberius.


Assorted columns at the entrance


Some rather medieval looking buildings at the entrance to the forum.


Detail on Constantine's arch which is next to the Colosseum.


Detail on Constantine's arch which is next to the Colosseum.


You can clearly see where the outer ring of the Colosseum was stripped away (to provide building materials elsewhere)


Looking in the direction of the forum from inside the Colosseum.


Assorted tablets from the Colosseum.


Assorted tablets from the Colosseum.


Some tourist fodder outside the Colosseum. They appear to delight in terrorising pretty ladies.


An excellent view of the entrance to the Roman Forum from the Colosseum. You can see the arch of Tiberius in the distance.


Same view at a different angle.


Constantine's arch


Constantine's arch


This view gives an idea of the size of the Colosseum.


One end of the Colosseum is now an outdoor theatre stage.


Showing the full height of the Colosseum.


The underground section was where all the mechanical lifts, etc were worked from.

That last picture of Constantine's Arch is dynamite. Good show.

Agreed; lovely pictures, particularly of the Arch of Constantine and the Colosseum. Everyone sees pictures of the exterior of that building, but it's only once you're inside the joint that you get a real sense of the scale. And to think it was once decked out top to bottom in white marble...the expense beggars the imagination.

From what I remember, Constantine's Arch has a detail of the legions bearing away the Temple treasures away with them, doesn't it?

No, that's the Arch of Titus.

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City wall in Brussels which my dad took the liberty of photographing when he was over there a while ago. Note the immense height of the walls, not just by medieval, but by any standards. Certainly one of the tallest city walls I've seen, which reflects on the importance of the city back in the 14th century.

Another surviving part of the wall is the bloody impressive Hallepoort:

Also from the 14th century, though with heavy 15th century alterations as you can see, which is bloody massive and the only surviving gate of the city (photograph not by my dad).

Different angle.

Almost looks like a castle, tbh.

Admittedly a cross post from my blog, but I'd hate to see this topic die. As an extra, in addition to the text from my blog I've expanded on the information provided for the actual structures, in addition to the basic information.

Yesterday, while on a trip to Val-Dieu with my father, we drove through a rather peculiar little town on the way from Visé. As I saw more and more of the hilltop structures reports became increasingly excited ('Ooh, there is a castle on top of the hill!' 'Oh, and a church. Or is it a castle, too?' 'And hey, there is a house over there built on the remains of a turret!' 'There's the ruins of a keep over there!') and we decided to stop and have a look.

The town of Dalhem turned out to be a city and the hilltop was actually a citadel. Apart from that, the men who had once lived in the now ruined keep had held the office of count (if only because, until the thirteenth century, no one could force them to give up that grand design), their lands stretching from Cadier, in the north, to Olne, in the south (but not exclusively: stretches in between were owned by other lords, abbots, etc). This map shows the territories of the duchy of Limburg and the territories of Dalhem, Valkenburg and 's Hertogenrade. The first thing that leaps to mind here is that the duchy of Limburg is tiny and barely deserving of the name, but that's medieval imperial politics for you: support an emperor, receive a ducal hat.

Pictures of the county:
17th century gatehouse - the approach to the gate is steep and protected by at least three different portcullises. This is the second. You can see the third right behind it.
The gatehouse from inside - From the inside of the citadel, that is. The door you can see only provides access to the gatehouse itself, it doesn't allow you to exit. The actual entrance to the citadel is right underneath the gatehouse, under the straight horizontal wooden beam with white text. It's not a very tall space and rather steep, and neither horse nor cart will fit through.
Continuing our path through the hilltop settlement, we reach the:
Ruins of the keep - destroyed in 1648 by the Dutch Republic, the keep's walls still stand some 14 metres tall. They are now falling apart, however (hence the 'chutes de pierres' message), but the castle grounds are still inhabited (house number 29). The keep's walls only serve as an oversized fence now.
Ruins of the medieval gatehouse - and so we leave Dalhem, through the Our Lady's gate (because there used to be a figure of Mary's above it). The gate itself is, as you can see, mostly destroyed, but like the keep it has been incorporated into more recent housing.

The county lost it's independence in 1239, when Henri II, duke of Brabant, laid siege to Dalhem. After seven weeks, count Dirk van Hochstaden threw the towel in the ring and negotiated peace. In 1244 the county passed into the hands of the duke of Brabant (who was never there but in stead had a voogd or drossaard reign in his place, a common occurrence in the many castles of the region), and Dalhem itself was united in union with the lands of Outre-Meuse or Overmaas, first Brabançon possessions, later, after the Eighty Years War, Dutch territories.

In 1785 the majority of the county of Dalhem passed to Austria after the treaty of Fontainebleau, signed in the same year. The treaty brought an end to the Cauldron War (named thus because the only victim was an unfortunate cauldron) in which the Austrians tried to force the Dutch blockade of Antwerp. This blockade had been in place since the Eighty Years War (1568-1648) and the Austrians thought that, the year being 1785, it might be time to end the ancient tradition. Three warships were sent up the Schelde river, but a single shot (which hit the legendary cauldron) from the Dutch warship De Dolfijn was enough to force the leading Austrian vessel, the Le Louis, to surrender. While preparations for war were made following the incident, it never came to that, and the treaty confirmed the blockade. The Dutch paid the Austrians an indemnity of perhaps 8,5 million guilders and some territories switched hands, including parts of Dalhem. In return, apart from maintaining the blockade (and thus preserving part of the Dutch naval economy), a few other villages were handed over to the Republic.

What heroics!

After that, we visited Val-Dieu, the 13th century abbey still known for its beers (and its 'fromagerie'). The place was destroyed multiple times (by fire, protestants, and French revolutionaries) but rebuilt each time. However, the church appears to have suffered the greatest damage: many of the outer buildings, including the wonderful palace of the abbot, are still quite old (the palace dates from 1739, or so the inscription above its entrance claims).

Pictures of the abbey:
Main entrance - the abbey ground plan is very simple and reminiscent of that of many castles and major farmhouses in the region: a simple courtyard with buildings on all four sides.
Palace tower - this tower flanks the abbot's palace on the left (from the front). It is probably mostly decorative, despite what the gunloops may indicate.
The Abbot's palace - the palace itself is a little more decorated than the simple main entrance, but it's still far from opulent.
Another palace tower - this one flanks the right side of the palace. Note that the tower roof is different from the first tower. The path to the right leads to the brewery; only go there if you've got a cold, as it smells like hell over there, believe you me.

Apologies for the monstrous post. I'll add comments as I edit but the pictures are from Avignon, France, home of the popes in the 14th century.
As you can see, it's a remarkable well preserved town and very pretty. About the only thing that isn't in perfect nick is the famous bridge. There are only four of the original twenty two arches still intact.