Greece on vh/vh - Total War Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: Greece on vh/vh

karoaper
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 22:26 EDT (US)

I had recently completed the Brutuii campaign on m/m. I must say it was very easy and near the end quite boring. Now, I've started a vh/vh Greek campaign. Man, it's like a completely different game. First off, the damn Romans want a piece of me almost every turn. The Brutuii army went around Sparta to attack the weaker Athens. So the campaign AI is definetly smarter. The strange thing is I can't get alliances to save my life. Carthage even refused my offer to attack Scipio (their historical enemy)and make an alliance, and then the crazy bastards attack me(Syracuse). Pontus and Seleucids have said no to alliance as well. The thing that blew my mind is that a full Julii army has decided to leave their main enemy (the Gaul) alone and has sailed to attack me (see below). I guess Romans hate the Greek most of all.
Ok 2 more comments:
First of all, I've had to change the defending tactics. Rather than put the hoplites on the walls, I cover the streets and dig in. I tell you, those Hoplites in phalanx made the hastati cry like little girls (principes will be more difficult I suppose).
The second thing is that on vh, horses (Macedon light lancers) are able to decimate phalanx hoplites (even the armored hoplites) in a frontal charge. I'm not too worried though; the second Sparta can train the lovely Spartans, I'm gonna mass produce them and ship them to all corners of the world to kill infantry and cavalry alike.
It's just hit me, I'm gonna have this game on my computer another year, as I don't play very often and there are still completely new factions and with them new units and new gamestyles to explore. Next, I'll try Armenia (horselords), then Carthage, then Germania (want to try those berserkers and chosen axemen).

[This message has been edited by karoaper (edited 03-03-2005 @ 10:36 PM).]

Author

Replies:

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 22:31 EDT (US) 1 / 16

What do you mean by the brutii bypassed sparta for the weaker athens? Does Sparta even have a wall??? Never put hoplites on walls, just fight in the streets. I never once lost a settlement that had hoplites or above. The AI will always (on h and vh) focus on the human controlled player. Majorly outnumbering you is the only thing the AI can do as it lacks the skill of a human. Especially on the battlefield, where tactics would be pretty complex for the AI to do as well as humans. Oh yeah, nobody will ally with you. If they do they are too far away to fight you anyway, and if you expand to their border they will break alliance. That's hwo it's always gone for me. Heck, as Julii on vh/vh I couldn't get britannia and germania to fight one another, which is rediculous.

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 03-03-2005 @ 10:33 PM).]

karoaper
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 22:34 EDT (US) 2 / 16

Well, it doesn't have a wall, but it had a large garrison, because I assumed the romans would attack the closer shore, but they didn't. My point is that they didn't do it in medium.

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 22:43 EDT (US) 3 / 16

What year are you in?

karoaper
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 22:52 EDT (US) 4 / 16

260BC (10 turns in).
I've got 8 cities so far. Need to get some horses and archers so I can go against Macedon.

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 23:18 EDT (US) 5 / 16

FYI: 260 BC is ten years, which is twenty turns. Also, don't count on greek cavalry to do too much. They aren't the greatest. And as for archers, recruit as many cretens as you can. My h/vh greek campaign I used hoplites/armoured hoplites, some spartans, some onagers, and mercenaries. I'm curious, what cities do you have? Did you expand in asia minor? I'd say your number on priority should be to get the romans off of your mainland. I know it was h/vh and yours is vh/vh but in mine I didn't allow the romans to take more than apollonia. Then I used a strong navy to keep them on their side and blockade every port I could. I also blitzed macedon before they could field large armies. They were destroeyed by ~262 BC. If you can hold the romans back on land(shouldn't be too hard defending settlements with phalanxes) and then keep them at bay with a good navy you should have no problem wiping out macedon, thrace, and dacia. Once you get port upgrades up and going on mainland greece/asia minor/crete (kydonia) the money will come rolling in so fast......

I only made more money as the seleucids once I took over egypt as well as asia minor. We're talking close to 500,000. As greece I managed to maintain over 100,000 though.

Edit: I didn't have to fight the julii until it was over segestica. Have fun with that, lol.

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 03-03-2005 @ 11:25 PM).]

ThomasMalthus
Legionary

posted 03 March 2005 23:38 EDT (US) 6 / 16

One thing I learned from my two Greek campaigns vh/vh is not to give up Sicily. It can be hard to hold off Carthage and/or the Scippi turn after turn, but it will be worth it in the end. The Scippi should be your main threat and they'll committ all their forces to taking Syracuse. Just keep on the defense until they seem to weaken a bit and then make your attack. In no time Sicily will be your, which is a good trading spot and a steeping stone to Southern Italy. If you already lost Syracuse, oh well, you can still attack the Roman homeland through Segestica or by landing armies from the Greek mainland. Also, try to get as many trade agreements as you can. On another point, though Greek cavalry may seem weak, large numbers of them can with sound strategy can make them very deadly.

doitzelkaiseriii
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 00:11 EDT (US) 7 / 16

^^^ Very true. Syracuse also gives you another place to train Spartans from, so it's invaluable! I never play the campaign above hard, because there's just too many rebels and Romans to deal with. In my current campaign I've had some real trouble. I used the mass migration idea I saw in the strategy forum. I moved from Scythia to Crete, Rhodes, and Sparta. I can never successfully assault the Greek settlements. I have to wait for them to sally forth, because fighting hoplites in the streets with the Scythians is very, very, VERY difficult. Be sure to get Sardis and Halicarnassus as soon as you can. Major trading points in the Aegean, which further increase Athens' revenue. I'd suggest doing something about how weak Sparta currently is. It looks like there's no garrison and no walls. They could sneak an army in and take it in one turn. Be wary...

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Ignoramus
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 00:50 EDT (US) 8 / 16

All it takes it a Brigand army to appear and WHAM! Spatra is gone! Maybe try to place a few forts near the shore. Ai seems to go for them rather than cities.

Edit: DoitzelKaiserIII LOL on Florida's school system.

I came, I saw, and I couldn't believe my eyes! Julius Caesar Asterix in Britain.

[This message has been edited by Ignoramus (edited 03-04-2005 @ 00:51 AM).]

Centurion Triarii
Legionary
(id: Triarii)

posted 04 March 2005 04:12 EDT (US) 9 / 16

You CAN build a wall round Sparta. Just because it never had one in history doesn't mean that You can't build one.

After all it's your empire so if you decree that walls will be built around Sparta the people can't really argue with you.

Kapitan_brad
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 08:04 EDT (US) 10 / 16

woah. . . . .your screwed, lol

That is all I have to say.

Shusky
Legionary
(id: Silver Husky)

posted 04 March 2005 12:13 EDT (US) 11 / 16

I'm playing Greece on vh/vh right now. I left Syracuse early in the game, and only reconquered it after I got rid of Macedonia, Pontus, and most of Seleucia.

One thing you should pay attention to - don't let the Romans overpower you on the seas. They won't stop trying to take your western coast until the last one of them is dead.

It flies!

BDC
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 12:19 EDT (US) 12 / 16

I'm playing Greece VH/VH and the Romans haven't been too much of a problem, fought the Scippii off Scily easily and the Brutii off the mainland. All the Julii have done is blockade a few ports. I left off attacking the Macedonians until absolutely possible though to get some more trade income off them.

Mod at HaloPlanet

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 12:29 EDT (US) 13 / 16

I don't agree with the logic of holding off attacking macedon so you can get trade income. Just take their settlements and you'll get your trade income, plus more trade income, and taxes.

BDC
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 12:31 EDT (US) 14 / 16

Yes but in the meantime you can annex the rebel states and beat off the Romans.

Mod at HaloPlanet

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 12:34 EDT (US) 15 / 16

True, and I'm not sure how much more ridiculous very hard campaign is than hard for greece, but on h/vh I held the romans off while blitzing macedon very, very early. I didn't put any resources into syracuse, and subsequently lost it, however. I retook syracuse once I had spartan ability at sparta. A strong navy goes a long, long way.

karoaper
Legionary

posted 04 March 2005 16:23 EDT (US) 16 / 16

Thanks for all the comments.
I took Messana from the Scipii. The Carthaginians have a couple of elephants already, so taking the western tip of Sicily from them will not be easy. One thing I'm amazed at is how tough the Hoplites really are, especially if you keep your general right behind them. I had 5 hoplite units (2 armored, 1 regular, 2 militia) hold off 8 units of hastati and 2 units of equites. 4 of my units were completely destroyed near the end, but didn't route. They had the entire street behind them open if they wanted to break and flee, but they dug in and fought to the last man. I guess it was the General's proximity to them that inspired the troops to fight. Finally, the entire enemy army started to route one by one (it was like the domino effect). Quite amazing.
Syracuse's pop has reached 10000 (+3% growth). That means soon I can train the Spartans (they are really the reason I chose the Greeks). I'm enjoying the Greeks so far more than the Romans. I don't know if others feel that way too.
As far as taking Macedon right away or waiting a bit, I'm waiting now, since I need a stronger army (armored hoplites at least) to counter the endless barrage of light lancers that they have. Larissa has a garrison of 13 light lancers. I guess Alexander's main military legacy was the extensive use of cavalry. And, as I mentioned before, on vh cavalry are ridiculously strong against hoplites.

[This message has been edited by karoaper (edited 03-04-2005 @ 04:30 PM).]

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