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Topic Subject: Moors guide
posted 14 June 2008 09:57 EDT (US)   
I submitted this to yakcamkir but seem to be getting no response... oh well, might add pics later .
Now here

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OVERVIEW

Islamic presence in Iberia have lasted over 3 century at the start of the MTW time frame. but infighting and the resurging Catholic presence is starting to threaten the existence of all muslims living in Europe. already various Moorish nobels have lost significant chunk of northern Iberia to the small Catholic Kingdoms of Leon, Castillo, Portugal and Aragon. recent Norman invasion resulted in the destruction of muslim political presence in Sicily.

All is not lost though, at long last the Moorish people have regain some semblance of unity under the Almoravids dynasty and victory against the Spanish Catholic coalitions have brought renew hope for the muslim people. united for the first in over in half a century. now they are a mighty empire stretching from western Africa to the Iberian.

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Opening moves

As the Moors, you start out with 4 settlements as one of the bigger factions in the game. your position is very secured, of your 4 starting settlements only your capital Cordoba is under and sort of risk any time soon. Alger and Granda start out as wooden castles while Cordoba is a minor city and Marrakesh a large town.

3 rebel settlements is next to your starting position and ripe for the taking. Valencia is on the eastern coast of Iberia, Tunis is strait east of Alger and Timbutsku is in the middle of the Saharen desert. avoid Tunis at the start as Sicily will almost suerly head over there right off the start. and a two front war is never a good idea at the very start. while the distance between Algier and Tunis should keep them from attacking you anytime soon.

the Saharan settlement of Timbutsku should be you first major target. it is a huge advantage to hold it. as it is by far the best single trade resource province in the game. with 5 highly profitable resource stash (2 gold, 2 ivory, 1 slave ). if you've never been there before it might be hard to find on the map, but you could look at the very bottom of the map you should see a river, and there you should see a slave resource. the town is right next to the slave resource. right off the start. it is held by a smallish stack of African soliders and a unit of Taureg camels. Valencia is held by a relatively stronger stack led by El Cid.

Spain starts directly north of your capital with 2 settlemtns, Portugla also starts with 2 settlements but they're seperated. Spain poses the bigger threat of the two by a good margin.

you have a few ways to approach the start. calling a Jihad rightaway against Toledo could settle the Iberian situation almost immediaetly, as it would completely cripple Spain and it also gives you the highest starting level castle in the area. it is however a little risky as you'll be seiging a stone wall Castle with nothing but lightly armored troops. or you could choose to just take the Rebel settlements first and build up.

I will write up that moves for the early Jihad, accomplishing all 3 of my early goals at the same time. (probably within 15-20 turns)

1. take Toledo, thus effectively gaining an overwhelming dominance on the Iberian

2. take Timbutsku, securing my major cash cow.

3. acquire a Hashashim guild at Cordoba. effectively giving me one of the best foot swordsman in the game very early in the game.



turn 1: take your faction heir and all the garrison out of Marrkesk, (leave 1 town milita of course) and merge with the armies you have standing near the straits of Gibratal. take all your cavalry and your general from Alger and head south towards Timbutsku (I usually build some towers along the way.) build a merchant and diplomat at Cordoba, build a port at Cordoba and build roads everywhere else. march your starting spy towards Toledo area, march you starting diplomat to Portugal for trade right. march your starting Imam south towards Timbutsku.

turn 2: call a Jihad with your starting Imam. join with your faction heir's army and move up. at Cordoba built as many spear milita as possible. move whatever you have at Granada minus minimal garrison towards the Crusade. build land clearance at Granada / Alger / Marrakesh. send your 2 diplomats running through the various factions in Europe to get trade rights. you could add a 3rd diplomat to head towards Egypt at some point of your leisure. head your Merchant down towards Timbutsku as well.

turn 3: your Crusade should be near Cordoba, move whatever you could afford to the Crusade, leave our Sultan there with 1-3 unit will do. build a brothel at Cordoba

Turn 4: marching towards Toledo, hire whatever Ghazi you can in Cordoba and later in Toledo. if you still have space left hire Mutatwwiis.

Turn 5 and beyond: from here on obviously, seige Toledo and Timbutsku when you reach them. for Toledo you probably want to head on assault, (i suggest auto resolve as it tends to be more favorable to you in vinilla than actually trying to assault yourself)for Timbutsku once you reach the gate hire as many Sudanese tribesman as you can. I probably wait out this one as it doesn't take as long as you don't have enough infantry. in Cordoba build a Inn after your brothel finish and train assasins and go after those random priest / heretic / captians or sabatoge churchs, until you get the Hashashim guild. everywhere else focus on economic buildings .

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Marrakesh should be a major cash cow as well as Cordoba. because Granada starts out as a very small wooden castle with almost nothing you could consider converting it to town . espically since Valencia is also a wooden castle. keep Alger as a Castle until later stages. it should be your main troop producer in the early going, tech up the military tech tree in that settlement.

Once you taken Timbutsku, there is another small village to the west in Arguin. it also has a lot of natural resources (not quiet as much but still pretty considerable) it has the potential to build ports but in the vinilla version of this game no sea trade will happen dispite building ports. while the only ships that could sail to it are the late game ocean going version. rebels will be a problem for both of these province throughout the game but they still make you a nice sum. keep a smallish army around one of the town and just kill whatever rebel that show up. to the north of Valencia is the rebel town of Zaragosa. though unless you head toward Valencia in the very early going it is more than likely that one of Spain / Portugal / French owns it.

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SECOND PHASE:

Now that you have Toledo and Timbutsku along with a Hashashim guild, set up to take the village of Arguin from Timbutsku, and start the final phase of your islamic reconquista. take out Leon first and finish off the Spainiards (should be little resistence left), and then take out Lisbon and/or Valencia, before finsihing off the remaining two settlements.

Economic wise just make sure you get merchant on all the resouces in Arguin and Timbutsku, after that it's just the usual build whatever that makes money thing.

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THRID PHASE AND BEYOND:

Now that you rule the Iberian and west Africa. you should easily be one of the top 3 factions in every catagory . your position is also very safe. from here move at your lesure . typically Sciliy should become a major target as they will by now most likely to own Tunis, Tripoli and the islands in the western Mediterranian. the French is a obvious target also. as they'll probably be hit from all side by now anyway. another possibility is to sail to the British isles and open up a new front there. I would usually start by looking to see if any of the island settlements are still unoccupied. if they are take it.. soon enough Genoa and Scilily will come knocking :P

Egypt should be an partner for most of the game. though after you have considerable holdings in Western Europe and Italy you need to move that way eventrually. as Jerusalem is a victory required city. the Mongols and/or Timurids probably would have overran them by then anyway.


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MILITARY:

As the Moors, you have a fairly interesting selection of troops, what initially looks like a bad rip off of a Spanish army could become great if properly used. their biggest advantage is that almost all of their best troops could be build at cities. with the exception of Desert archers and Camel Gunners and Dismounted Christian guards. It's funny that the game description claims they have good early troops but poor late troops, when the truth is more like the other way around.

Spearman:

Ironically spearmans maybe the weakest link for the Moors despite having a boatload of different types to choose from. they pretty much all range from fairly useless to useful with flaws. in the early goings the spear milita is good enough for whatever you need. Berbers are sergent spearman with desert bonus but no armor upgrades. Nubians are higher tech but somehow suckier version of Berber. Dismounted Arab cavs is your only spearman that could actually wear high level armor but they're smaller in unit size than other spearmans with no formation ability. Latuma spears are you best unit and they have very good skill ratings. but being desert troops they could only wear up to leather armor. for all prupose just use Latumas if you can, Arabs /Berber if you can't, and the ole spear milita is obviously useful for their purpose.


Infantry:

The Moors get 3 different type of sword infantry and they range from WOW to OH MY GOD! all 3 should be used. Urban Militas are free upkeep in cities and is just a little weaker than dismounted fedual knights. they are one of the most cost effective infantries in this game and given the unattractive selection of spear units for the Moors they should form the bulk of your army from mid game on. Hashashim cost a lot but can be had very early (Before Urban) and they hit A TON. only high level dismounted knights really stand a chance against them. and all you need is a guild. getting those guilds of course require a bit more planing though. if you plan carefully you could build a lot of them quiet easily. Dismounted Christian guards, which for some reason is statistically better than any other European knights, hilarious as this sounds. they are probably THE best foot swordsman in this game... a few of these will make the Europeans look silly.

Archer / crossbows:

You get the desert archers fairly early, and they're one of the better archers in the game. while not quiet as good as longbows, they're not really far behind (and cheaper anyway). their long range and pretty hard hitting. and should be the staple of your army. peasant crossbows is also fairly good. espically against heavier armored troops. but desert archers are typically more effective against just about everything else (including melee) so your army should have a mix of these two. the foot gunner units you get is useless. espically since you get the camel gunners. so don't bother with them at all. you also get crossbow militas, while not quiet as good as peasent crossbowmans they're useful enough for seige defense. the Moors selection in this department about average, it's better than their Iberian counterparts though.. espically early game.

Cavalry:

Moors selection of cavalry is actually fairly weak in the early going. the Arab cavalry is basically a mounted sergent. the good thing is that they can be build in both cities and castles, and for a early city cavalry they're good. if your going to use these guys make sure you use them in mass and remember that they're not knights. so don't hope for too much espically in melee. you could also build the Tuareg Camel riders in your castles from the caravan. statistically they're not too shabby because of their bonus against other horsemans, head on they beat up mail knights without much problems and in deserts they can even beat fedual knights. unfortunately their camel bonus doesn't apply to foot soliders and they're also a bit slower than horses, what needs to be kept in mind is they're recruitment cost. they're recruitment cost is a lot like mercenaries, their actual cost isn't that high, and for that cost they're very good. but their upkeep cost is off the chart for a early cavalry at 300 a piece. so if your going to use them make sure you disband them after your campaign.. espically true in the early stages. where you need them to deal with knights but don't have the money to keep them around for long.

After that you get the Granadien lancer, which is basically a glorified mailed knights. needless to say that it might actually be LESS useful than the two previous selection. funny enough that your final cavalry selection completely flip the table and give you the Christian guard, which is inexpliciabily the best knight int he game?!?! not only are they statiscially better than Chivaric knights but what's more unfair is that they could be build with nothing but Huge city walls. so ALL your settlements could produce these babies. that's just not fair.

Skrimishers:

Another funny part proving how dumb the game description is, the Moors start with desert cavalry, which isn't too shabby and can be very good when used wisely like all other javlins. the only problem is that their Iberian counter part starts with Jinets, which is the same unit that's a lot better statistically. the Moors get their own Jinets... but 2 level higher up the tech tree and arguably WORSE statistically (but could be build in cities also). they get the Sudanese Javlinman. which isn't better than the normal Javlins and a lot worse than Almughavars... they get a mounted crossbowman at the highest archery range level and they're pretty good, better than the generic versions most catholics get.

And then there's the Camel gunners. which is in a world of it's own as some sort of 17th-19th century unit that somehow morphed back in time. they're just insane, all they requier is the caravansary which also gives your citidal a trade bonus. (you also need at least one gunsmith in you realm) they cost a ton, but boy are they good.

Being one of the very few mounted musketeer in this game. (if your playing without kingdoms, they're the ONLY mounted muskets in the game), they simply make a mockery of anything that comes their way. they are on par range wise with all the other long range missiles, while having the gunpowder bonus. they're espically hard hitting up close. a round of point blank muskets into the back of any engaged unit is a near guarentee of a rout.

They cost a TON (1000+ per peice) but by that stage of the game you should be drowning in money anyway, but they simply kills anything in their path and rarely takes heavy casualty.

Artiliery:

Moors have a very basic selection of artilery. aside from the normal seige equipments that everyone gets they only have the ability to recruit grand bombards and cannons. not exactly exciting by any means but they will be more than capable in seige assualts.

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General advice:

1. for some reason the Moors stable is completely useless, all their cav units can be acquired simply by having the castle / fortress / citidal upgrade with the exception of the Christian guard.. which can be had with huge city walls anyway. so don't upgrade those and demolish any that you see.

2. in general there isn't too many units that you need from the castles. so switch up your castles to towns and just keep a couple of them as troops producers.

3. make sure you have merchants on all your resource stacks in those two saharen towns, they'll gain fiances skills like crazy and a high finace merchant on those ivory / gold stacks typically makes well over 700-1000+ per turn with ease.

4. early stage is probably the hardest for the Moors as Spain / Portugal's early troop selection is simply better than yours. make sure you out produce them on the map and hire mercenaries.

Battle planing:

Moorish army can be extremely diversed. it's hard to have a single set of army or plan, but the biggest advice you will need is the early stages when your facing tough opposition with a limited selection.

1. desert archers are you single biggest advantage against Spain and Portugal (and France too!) in the early stages your castles must tech to them and produce plenty.

2. desert cavalry isn't as good as jinets but they're important for your early success. the good news is that you don't even need a stable to build them so you could probably put more on the map then the Spanish could with Jinets. the trick to using these javlin cav in general is this... as your main line advances. start skrimishing on their flanks or even up front. this should break up their formation a little even with just a few volley and give your melee line an edge as they collide. after this run them around the side and turn skrimish off, move close up and hit the biggest targets with all you got. bodyguards / knights / heavy infantry should be your biggest priorty. if they have extensive skrimishers / archers themself you could consider just charging them immediately and use them as light cavalry first. if you use up all their armmo and the line's still not broken charge at their weaker links and hope the momentum and numbers will break them.

3. desert cav and grandine jinets are death against the western European factions ( French / English / Scots / HRE /Danes etc.. they get into more trouble against the Italians (Pavis crossbows) and even more against the eastern factions (Horse archers) they're tricky to use and require a lot of micromanagement but the reward is amazing.

4. one trick to remember is that gunners are espically effective close up and against tightly packed enemies. aside from the obvious implications on the field (that you should move the gunners close once other troops eneage and use them more like javlins cavalries.) one thing you could do is using them during seige assualt / defense. on defense just place them at the gate and/or the bottleneck of alley and laugh as their assault quickly turn into massive routs. you could put a cheap unit of spears ahead of them just in case. they'll take some freidnly fire from the gunners though. on offense the trick similary applies as you open up hole in the wall or gate and just march them close to the breach and fire through. and then have them march up the alley and shoot everything that stands before them (never let them melee though.)

[This message has been edited by Gaius Colinius (edited 07-14-2008 @ 03:48 PM).]

Replies:
posted 14 June 2008 10:54 EDT (US)     1 / 11  
Been wondering when a Moors guide would pop up. I also submitted a guide to yak (All-out Charge) but no response, and me and Legion of Hell did a joint guide to artillery, but no response. If you click his profile he mentions something about an email...yak, what's the problem?

------m------m------
(o o)
(~)

Monkey beats bunny. Please put Monkey in your signature to prevent the rise of bunny.
m0n|<3yz r 2 pwn n00b
posted 14 June 2008 12:33 EDT (US)     2 / 11  
Rest assured they will be posted up once they are formatted correctly for the articles section. Which is a lengthy process.

Why don't you post up a copy of your guide in the strategy section so we can all get a peek at it and get a discussion going?

A f t y

A A R S

:: The Sun always rises in the East :: Flawless Crowns :: Dancing Days ::

"We kissed the Sun, and it smiled down upon us."
posted 14 June 2008 12:34 EDT (US)     3 / 11  

*sings Auld Lang Syne* *gets annoyed with self for doing so*

Good idea! I'll ask Legion.

------m------m------
(o o)
(~)

Monkey beats bunny. Please put Monkey in your signature to prevent the rise of bunny.
m0n|<3yz r 2 pwn n00b
posted 14 June 2008 14:32 EDT (US)     4 / 11  
I completely disagree with starting off against the rebel provinces.Number one move should be to call a jihad against Spain. Stack together troops with generals and join them in even if you aren't attacking with them. This way, you get XP all around, and you can hire Jihad troops which are cheap and great for overwhelming in sieges. Besides, you make great money in sacking spanish cities, not rebel ones. You can get these later. Forget Timbuktu until you have the Iberian peninsula. This should be very low on your list of things to do. Merchants to saharan towns is a MUST. Mercenary spearmen will do wonders as well.
posted 14 June 2008 14:45 EDT (US)     5 / 11  
I agree that calling a jihad on Toledo right off the bat is a sound startegy too. you could just take timbutsku with your Alger forces anyway. (for the most part I would suggest just racing down there with your cavs and hire those useful Sudanese tribesman on the spot. that REALLY save some time

Having tried it myself though, a early Jihad is pretty difficult to pull off as the quality of your troops is pretty terrible . trying to segie Toledo with nothing but spear milita and Ghazis / Mutawwi is pretty hard. (espically since Toledo's castle setup is very difficult with a really small wall section to approach)

[This message has been edited by RollingWave (edited 06-15-2008 @ 09:47 PM).]

posted 15 June 2008 22:40 EDT (US)     6 / 11  
edited to use saven's suggestion of the early crusade.
posted 15 June 2008 23:13 EDT (US)     7 / 11  
I personally take Lissabon first. Having the Portuguese off my back early on feels very rewarding. Lissabon is easy to take providing you can beat the army in front of it.

Michael Jackson
posted 16 June 2008 01:55 EDT (US)     8 / 11  
Lisbon is a fairly easy target. it's a bit much to waste a Jihad on it.the point in going after Toledo is because it's a castle right off the bat. if you take it out it essentially kills all hope for Spain and give you a solid troop producing center on the Iberian (it will take awhile to get Granada anywhere near that and besides you probably want to trun Granada into a town soon anyway)
posted 17 June 2008 10:05 EDT (US)     9 / 11  
Yak was in the middle of exams and is currently in the middle of a "secret project" that ye'll hear about in due course. Aftermath is working on this article and will be in touch about the pics.
The guide is good RollingWave but I think you should mention the higher morale of Lamtuna spearmen as well as their skill ratings.

Gallowglass, send your article to either or both myself & Afty and we'll look after it.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

posted 23 June 2008 18:11 EDT (US)     10 / 11  
RollingWave
If you send your pics along to myself to Afty, we'll be able to finish it off for you.

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

posted 14 July 2008 15:43 EDT (US)     11 / 11  
Nice article RollingWave.
Good news is that we have a few more articles in the pipeline!

-Love Gaius
TWH Seraph, TWH Grand Zinquisitor & Crazy Gaius the Banstick Kid

Got news regarding Total War games that should be publicised? Then email m2twnews@heavengames.com. My blog.
Nelson was the typical Englishman: hot-headed, impetuous, unreliable, passionate, emotional & boisterous. Wellington was the typical Irishman: cold, reserved, calculating, unsentimental & ruthless" - George Bernard Shaw
Vote for McCain...he's not dead just yet! - HP Lovesauce

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