Phalanxes from the front and cavalry from the back. In fact, if you can prevent the phalanxes from being flanked, then just phalanxes from the front will do.

The above or try to separate his army into several groups, tire the Urbans and overwhelm him group by group. If you cannot counter his cavalry however, this wont work.

And about the phalanxes, that's assuming that a storm of pila doesn't shred your phalanx to peices.

Try shredding 16 Sacred Bands to pieces.

Send forward several units of peasants to get mashed by the pila so that they run out. From there send in your mighty persian cavalry and run rings around them wiping them as they try to chase you and fail.

Yuri, the questions was how to defeat Urbans at the hands of a good player, not how to beat the AI.

P.S. Even with the Pila, if the Urbanns cannot flank or spill to the sides of the phalanx, the pikemen have a good chance.

[This message has been edited by Silencio (edited 07-13-2005 @ 11:25 PM).]

I've noticed AP units (obviosly) work well against them. Chosen Axemen and Berserkers, for example.

except not berserkers, they are too few in number to put a big dent in urbans.

[This message has been edited by NA Lord Blaine (edited 07-13-2005 @ 11:53 PM).]

Chosen Axemen will do the job decently, though they might possibly need back up, flanking them with Desert Cavalry also work nicely, as that is what I am doing right now in my Eygptian campain. I usually field at least 8 Deserts, 6 for wiping out the Roman cavalry force and 2 for fresh reinforcements.

Chosen axes can beat Urbans cost effectively in a head on charge, but only in a snow or forest environment. But in the big picture, they will get shot up by arrow fire pretty quickly.

Berserkers do not have AP.

Quote:

9-12 of those 16 won't be in terrible shape after the Pila storm. Plus 10-12 Urbans leaves the Roman player with more support troop options than 16 Sacred Band Infantry.

As a parthian player, I've routed an entire battleline of urbs with a single ele unit with a well timed charge from the flank.

"Well, what if it's no ele/no art?"

If it's no ele/no art and its not also no elite infantry, then i won't play u. I'm not sacrificing my shock units if u dont sacrifice yours.

Cav archers can also affect them if shooting from behind.

Or by shooting them from their right flank. A solid mix of cataphracts, persian cavalry and war elephants will destroy them. Have the persian cavalry weaken them before the elephants charge them in the flanks and once they are in confusion charge the cataphracts into the front and move your persian cavalry around the back and kill them as they rout.

Engage from the front with anything that will hold for long enough for the cavalry to charge into the rear. eg. Armoured Hoplites and Greek Cavalry or Sacred Band and Long Shields.

A solid mix of Persians, Cataprhacts and elephants cost an arm and a leg. Persians can be countered by foot archers and if they switch to Cantabrian Circle counterattacked by Praetorians.

Urbans in testudo in the meantime will hardly take any noticeable damage. In addition some players (at least one of whom does not wish to be mentioned by a known name) can switch quickly from testudo to normal formation to meet cataphract charges. Cataphracts charging without support fresh, massed Urbans, led by a good player, is not a smart idea.

Elephants are a very risky strategy - fire volleys from onagers or Archer Auxillia could send them amok quickly.

Plus cataphracts and praetorian cavalry are roughly on even grounds, so ur cataphracts won't be idle most of the game.

Quote:

Or I can have only a couple of them up front to soak up the pila.

Even better, some low cost units (who don’t rout immediately) to soak up the pila.

Friesian

I use Sacred Bands because I can easily afford 16 of them + support units on a 15k budget.

Chosen Axemen can tear through a diverse amount of units, including Urbans if they have upgraded weapons and support. Chosens are the best, low-cost all around infantry unit.

Or, like many people have said, just make them busy with a phalanx, then rout them with cavalry. May I also suggest peppering them with missiles?

I've done some testing with missiles, peltasts, archers, and slingers barely do anything. The urbans are too heavily armored for the missiles to have much of an impact.
Head hurlers work wonders though, a swordmen unit could beat urbans if they had a group of HH supporting them.

Yep. There is no much point in using archers against Urbans, unless you need distraction or some cheap units to absorb the pila and/or initial charge.

One funny thing though, if I move my peltasts to the Urbans' back, fire my missiles then charge in with them, it helps alot.
It's not that the peltasts are doing any damage, but the urbans turn away and face the peltasts, which allows my pikemen to actually inflict major losses on them.

Such an opportunity rarely exist in multiplayer though.

Peltasts missiles are supposed to be ap, but they don't work well against Urbans unlike the HHs. Don't really know why. Slingers are a little better with alot more ammo, but they aren't available to the Seleucids.

The AI seems messed up if skirmish mode is on, the peltasts don't shoot anything and they just shuffle around, I always turn it off when unnecessary.

[This message has been edited by LostWraith (edited 07-15-2005 @ 06:20 PM).]

Quote:

They are not.