maybe we can do a Europa Barbarorum kind of thing, allowing them to recruit their good troops only in Italy, so that they would be forced to move there quickly?

So they can only recruit poorer quality troops in any other areas, but their higher tier whatever they may be in Italy.

Perhaps, although that won't really help the AI survive ingame.

Allow them to horde?

Oh, most definitely yes to hording.

We should not worry too much about AI Lombard survival. Factions wipe each other out all the time. It is natural.

What we do not want is that a really strong AI wipes them out to become stronger.

And of course, primary goal is to make the faction tough but survivable for a human player.

I like the hording idea- it fits with their historical move-about-conquer-move-on type of mentality they had (or were pushed out).

We should not worry too much about AI Lombard survival. Factions wipe each other out all the time. It is natural.

I beg to differ. Firstly, because in order to make each game play out differently each faction should stand a chance. And on top of that, the Lombards should be able to go whereever and stand a chance, not just Italy. Secondly, because the easiest way to achieve this:

What we do not want is that a really strong AI wipes them out to become stronger.

...is to make sure that all AI are equal.

I (and I am sure many others too) also enjoy having enemy factions survive for a long time. This provides variety in the late game, as opposed to having to fight identical stacks turn after turn, and also allows for better roleplaying. Once a faction is gone, it is gone... one which is only weakened can come back.

So yeah, give them a good Italian AoR or something, but don't let them recruit "their good troops only in Italy".

Because they did eventually get ousted from north Italy by the Franks, the region where they apparently held significant influence.

Set their victory conditions to "hold Rome and Milan"?

Possibly Southern Italy too.

The first king we know of is called Tato. This king destroyed the kingdom of the Heruli in 510. Remaining Heruls joined the Langobards and moved later with them to Lombardia, today Italy, and some of them sought refuge with the Gepids.

The Eastern Roman empire sought rapprochement towards the Lombards. And around 540 they became foedrati. As foederati they fought in wars against the Ostrogoths and the Persians in the east. Meanwhile in Pannonia the Avars were raiding. The Romans had no interest in this war and did not support the Lombards. Alboin, succesor of king Audoin, signed a pact of non-aggression with the Avars and forge together a large Longobardic army, consisting of veterans of wars against the Goths and Persians. In 567 this army atacked the Gepids and destroyed their kingdom. The last king of the Gepids, Cunimund, was killed and Alboin forced the daughter of the killed king, Rosamund, to marry him.

In the spring of 568, Alboin led the Lombards, together with other Germanic tribes; (Bavarians, Gepidae, Saxons) and Bulgars, across the Julian Alps to invade northern Italy due to their expulsion from Pannonia by Avars.


Later in 572, the thirty-five dukes assembled in Pavia hailed king Cleph. The new monarch extended the boundaries of the kingdom, completing the conquest of Tuscia and laying siege to Ravenna. Cleph tried to consistently pursue the policy of Alboin, which aimed to break the legal-administrative institutions firmly established during Ostrogoth and Byzantine rule, by eliminating much of Latin aristocracy, occupying the lands and acquiring the assets. He too, however, in 574 fell victim of a regicide, slain by a man of his entourage, perhaps instigated by the Byzantines.

Following Cleph's assassination another king was not appointed, and for a decade dukes ruled as absolute monarchs in their duchies, not without internal struggles (Rule of the Dukes or of anarchy).

As you can see the Lombards had quite a lot of "tribes" standing with them when they attacked Italy. So i'd say we give the Lombards a veteran army maybe in Sassanid territory?

And to simulate the idea of strong nobility maybe a building that gives unrest and gives money?

[This message has been edited by Seneca Monachus (edited 10-16-2011 @ 07:46 AM).]

Who? I'm pretty sure you don't mean the Sassanids?

(Also do remember they didn't invade for quite some time after the game starts)

I mean the Lombards. It might be a bit off the time, but i think for gameplay it might be interesting if the Lombards have a strong army far away from home, while their lands aren´t well protected. The player can choose to get the army back to the homelands asap before it gets raided by a neighbour. Or to abandon their lands and conquer new land somewhere else, in the spirit o the Lombards.

Although i agree maybe Sassanid territory is a bit to far in time for it.

[This message has been edited by Seneca Monachus (edited 10-04-2011 @ 05:22 PM).]

Yeah, maybe somewhere out in modern western russia, like on the edge of the steppes and the forests of eastern europe

Instead of spawning a veteran Lombard army in distant Persia which might be too far away for them to return in one piece, why not just make available an AoR building letting them recruit from the other tribes?

Another option could be to include these other tribes' units as horde units which spawn as the Lombards go horde. Personally this option makes a little more sense to me, but I think it's probably going to cost a few more unit slots...

My last suggestion on this would be to just extend the merc pool said units to that area. Much less of a fuss.