Good Tips and fun stuff - Total War Heaven Forum

KaiserWinterfeldt
Legionary
(id: Night_Raider)

posted 24 December 2005 15:16 EDT (US) 1 / 17

Quote:

1) Divide your army into ten or twelve or more little things on the campaign map, and siege a city with all twelve of them. Build siege equipment if you want, to waste time, but it won't make a difference. Any time the comp tries to counter one of your sieging armies, withdraw, then bring it back in the next turn. By the time the city starves, you'll have conquered it without losing a single man! HAHA!

This is actually a fairly common startegy. I've captured fully garrisoned cities with two units of peasants. And with the advent of 1.2 patch, you (and the AI) can only sally forth once per turn.

Quote:

2) Train maybe ten assassins and ten spies, and ship them off somewhere far off away from your Empire. Spy on enemy (or neutral in this case) cities, and build up your assassins' skills. Make sure they're pretty good, and have them attempt to kill off all, if not many, of their family members, even if it means having all your assassins die off. Another faction gone! FWAH!

When a faction becomes low on family members, they automatically get more adoptions and more MOTH's. It's almost impossible to kill off a faction with agents now.

Quote:

3) Spy time. If you play as Scythia or Armenia or some faction with great horsemen and crappy infantry, and don't want them held back by slowmoving infantry, have lots of spies travel with them. When sieging a city, put them all in, so the percentage of unlocking the gates increases to nearly 100%. Attack the city with all cavalry and no infantry! HAHA GREAT!

No offense, but this is almost a given.

The others, I'll admitt I've never tried before. #4 I've heard about quite a lot, but #5 is a new one. You really don't need to, though. Peasants are too weak to fight a lot.

(�`�._.�[ .:^:. ]�._.��)
��O.:.O�� KaiserWinterfeldt ��O.:.O��
R.I.P. Kayla Renee Winterfeldt & Jet “Jetboy” Winterfeldt
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shadowarmy
Legionary
(id: shadowarmy75)

posted 24 December 2005 17:47 EDT (US) 2 / 17

Quote:

and your pop keeps taking off and economy going down the cesspit.

Your economy only gets better with more pop.

"The most virtuous are those who content themselves with being virtuous without seeking to appear so."-Plato

Andariel
Banned

posted 24 December 2005 17:54 EDT (US) 3 / 17

Quote:

Your economy only gets better with more pop.

Not true! I've had cities with only 3000 or 2000 or 600 people in it, churning in revenue of up to 2000 or more money, whereas cities like Carthage, who are constantly increasing in size go from some 2000 to -6000 in less than 25 turns

To sort of reset a city to start plussing up on money, you abandon it to rebellion, then come back and crush the rebellion and exterminate the populace, and your economy goes back up!

Aemilius
Legionary

posted 24 December 2005 18:19 EDT (US) 4 / 17

*sigh*

In case Andy is not a troll:

The upkeep money for every single piece of army your empire is upholding is paid accordingly to the cities' population. If Carthage has 13% of you total population, it will pay 13% of your total upkeep. Larger cities ALWAYS make tons of more money than small ones, but also pay more of your upkeep costs for army and generals.

Just idag �r jag stark!

Andariel
Banned

posted 24 December 2005 18:33 EDT (US) 5 / 17

okay... I'll pretend to understand that, then wonder why Carthage and Thapsus are in the negative 6000's while Lepcis Magna, with its population of barely 700 is making 2000... sorry :S I don't understand

MaximusDecimus
Legionary
(id: maximus09)

posted 24 December 2005 18:50 EDT (US) 6 / 17

Quote:

Not true! I've had cities with only 3000 or 2000 or 600 people in it, churning in revenue of up to 2000 or more money, whereas cities like Carthage, who are constantly increasing in size go from some 2000 to -6000 in less than 25 turns

Duh. Thatsd cause bigger citys pay higher Army Upkeep. The bigger the city, in mose cases with large armies for your faction, the lower the income.

________________________________/I've got nothin...I'm fo like'a bajillion!\

RomanKnight
Legionary

posted 25 December 2005 02:16 EDT (US) 7 / 17

Ok Andariel, I'll explain this to you:

Let's say that your total army upkeep per turn is 20,000 Denarii. Let's say that your total income per turn is 25,000 Denarii. So your profit per turn is 5000 denarii. Let's say you have 8 cities. Lets say that this is how your population is split up:

City#1- Pop. 20000
City#2- Pop. 4000
City#3- Pop. 4000
City#4- Pop. 2000
City#5- Pop. 25000
City#6- Pop. 10000
City#7- Pop. 5000
City#8- Pop. 30000
Therefore, your total population is 100,000.

This is how your upkeep of 20,000 denarii will be paid:

City#1- 4000 denarii
City#2- 800 denarii
City#3- 800 denarii
City#4- 400 denarii
City#5- 5000 denarii
City#6- 2000 denarii
City#7- 1000 denarii
City#8- 6000 denarii

So, you can see that your larger cities will be paying a much larger chunk of your army upkeep. So, even though it seems like they're losing money, in reality they're making much more money than your smaller towns. Its just that they're paying a larger percentage of your army upkeep.

***

Wow, that was long. I think I'll go to sleep now...

By this I solemnly swear that the day is coming when the Greeks one and all will miss Achilles badly, and you in your despair will be powerless to help them as they fall in their multitudes to man-slaying Hector. Then you will tear your heart out in remorse for giving no respect to the best of the Greeks. - Swift-footed Achilles, The Iliad

KaiserWinterfeldt
Legionary
(id: Night_Raider)

posted 25 December 2005 02:45 EDT (US) 8 / 17

I know what you're talking about... but I never did understand why they expressed it in negatives... when those cities are actually making more money...

(�`�._.�[ .:^:. ]�._.��)
��O.:.O�� KaiserWinterfeldt ��O.:.O��
R.I.P. Kayla Renee Winterfeldt & Jet “Jetboy” Winterfeldt
(�`�._.�[ .::. ]�._.��)
(�`�.__.��)
(�v�)

lxpeng
Legionary

posted 25 December 2005 14:32 EDT (US) 9 / 17

They should just not display how much income each city makes and instead just show the income/expenditure in the financial scroll. It causes people to make a very common mistake of thinking that extermination will solve their problems.

steace43
Legionary

posted 25 December 2005 19:11 EDT (US) 10 / 17

Quoted from Andariel:

Not true! I've had cities with only 3000 or 2000 or 600 people in it, churning in revenue of up to 2000 or more money, whereas cities like Carthage, who are constantly increasing in size go from some 2000 to -6000 in less than 25 turns

Quoted from Andariel:

okay... I'll pretend to understand that, then wonder why Carthage and Thapsus are in the negative 6000's while Lepcis Magna, with its population of barely 700 is making 2000... sorry :S I don't understand

http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=2,2024,,10

Quoted from the link/me:

Cities always gain money from things like taxes and trade. The only reason that they might seem to be losing money, is that they will have to pay their part of your army upkeep, wich might be bigger than the income from the city. How much they pay is decided by how big percentage of your total population lives in the city, if 20% of your citizens live in a city, it pays 20% of the upkeep.
Because of that, your big cities will be paying a large part of the upkeep, and might therefore seem to lose money, while your small ones that pay only a small part will show a positive income. Extermination of a city will NOT increase it's income, even though it might seem like that. This is proven by this example:
You own Syracuse, Lilybaeum and Messana. The upkeep for your army is 20.000. Syracuse has 10.000 citizens, Lilybaeum has 6.000 and Messana has 4.000.
Syracuse show a income of -1000 (beacuase of paying 10.000 denarii of the upkeep, while earning 9.000), Lilybaeum +500 (after paying 6.000 denarii for the upkeep and earning 6.500) and Messana +1000 (after paying 4.000 denarii and earning 5.000).
Your total income for the whole empire: +500/turn.
Now let's say you exterminate Syracuse because of it showing an negative income (killing 7.500):
Syracuse shows an income of +500 (after paying 4.000 denarii and earning 4.500), Lilybaeum -3.600 (after paying 9.600 denarii and earning 6.000) and Messana -1.400 (after paying 6.400 denarii and earning 5.000).
Your total income for the whole empire: -4.500/turn.
As you see, exterminating will only spread out the upkeep to other cities, while decreasing the income from the city, even though it might show a higher income. You will get around 20.000 denarii when exterminating, but in four turns the decreased income will have eaten up that, and after that you will have less money.

Hope you understand, otherwise just go to the thread (in the link) and I'll try to clarify what you didn't understand.

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Wartrain
Legionary

posted 26 December 2005 02:35 EDT (US) 11 / 17

Quoted from Andariel:

4) ... Not only will units come cheap, but their times will decrease! An Urban Cohort could be done in 1 turn!!! For even better results, make sure the religious temple gives bonus to Experience. If you're playing as the House of Julii, use Mediolanium, for their temple to that Gallic goddess of Horses. The Romans love her, and you can build Roman Horse Temples adopted from her, that eventually lead to a +5 bonus to experience in Pantheons. WOOT!Intersting strats... people have commented on most, but:

As for the first part, stacking ancillaries, you can get the cost to 60% (also there are traits), but I was unaware this could affect training times. I have not observed this effect, if true... so what patch was it done in?

As for temples... it has nothing to do with Mediolanium, per se. It is the Temple of Horse. If the temple is level 3, and a Roman faction... ANY Roman faction takes over the city with level 3 Temple of Horse, then the Roman faction can build it to level 4, then level 5. If you lose it to the Gauls at level 4, the Gauls cannot build it to level 5. But if you retake it, e.g., you can build it to level 5 (Pantheon). Anyone possessing the city gets that experience bonus of the existing temple.... but again, the relevant factor is that the temple was level 3 Temple of Horse (e.g., Epona) when the Roman took possession.

BTW, If the temple of Horse is level 1 or 2, the Roman cannot upgrade it to level 3. A good strategy if you want the Temple of Horse Pantheon is to allow the enemy to build it to level 3, then take the city and upgrade it, as a Roman.

Quote:

PUT THEM TO USE! Rebels are constantly around--use masses of Peasants to take out the Rebel brigands wandering around your territory

Depends on which civ you play... some peasants are more effective than others, esp. with experience.

However, Peasants are useful for swamping chariots, for example. But they are probably better used as population transfer, like moving to a city that needs to grow, and disbanding... then you get to keep the citizens and recover some money/labor.

WarTrain {} Tech, RTW, Strat Content Contributor, Moderator @ Rome: Total War Heaven
INDEX of Technical Issues & Help {} Patch 1.5/1.6 Install Help/Bug Reports {} INDEX of RTW Discussion & Strategy

Sep_18th_480BC
Legionary

posted 26 December 2005 22:03 EDT (US) 12 / 17

Thats a funny topic

RTWpatch1.2:

...a good thing I realized that can happen in 1.2 is the effect of bribary attempts on my Scipio Leader.Its quite simple:In turn #2 of the game,you create a diplomat (Scipio already have a diplmat outside Capua in start,but he is useless there) in Messana.

Spend ALL your money,or at least most of it.In turn #2,approach the Greek diplomat standing outside Syracuse.Try to bribe him.Or try to bribe the Syracuse itself!Its the same,cause with 0 denarii,nothing and noone is gonna get lured!

So bribe,and see their answer:"Our honour and friendship..." and blah blah and yawn.Then bribe again.Again.Cut is short,after about 30 attempts,look up Cornellius Scipio (or any Roman leader) scroll.Now he is:Consumnate politician,Virtus and Great Deceiver!In less than a turn,you gain about +10 influnce without spending a single pence (sorry denario,lol)!

...unforunatelly (for those who like tips),this thing has been corrected in 1.5(?not sure if i am playing this version!)patch.Now all you can get is "Consumnate politician".Neither "sly" nor "true roman" traits are triggered in a single turn anymore.

....also, (provided you play limited time battles)a bad cheating of course is "sallying out multiple times over a single turn" but I guess most of you know it.But without this cheating I must admit I wouldnt be able to defend my Eastern Empire cities against the Huns or the Goths in B.I!
(I know its cheating!at least I am sincere for one credit!)

Wartrain
Legionary

posted 27 December 2005 04:20 EDT (US) 13 / 17

Indexed: General Tips [fun, odd, advantage]: 1

WarTrain {} Tech, RTW, Strat Content Contributor, Moderator @ Rome: Total War Heaven
INDEX of Technical Issues & Help {} Patch 1.5/1.6 Install Help/Bug Reports {} INDEX of RTW Discussion & Strategy

Andariel
Banned

posted 27 December 2005 17:22 EDT (US) 14 / 17

Quote:

As for the first part, stacking ancillaries, you can get the cost to 60% (also there are traits), but I was unaware this could affect training times. I have not observed this effect, if true... so what patch was it done in?

1.5, the best patch there is!
And it doesn't matter what level the temple of Epona is--as Romans it let me build Horse temples at level 2 and above.
The Unit Training costs go down a bunch (not too much to be incredible) and units that took 2 turns to build now take 1 turn (Wardogs, Urban Cohorts, Praetorians, etc)

Wartrain
Legionary

posted 27 December 2005 18:44 EDT (US) 15 / 17

Well as a result of going back to the sources to check some patch 1.5 things in this thread, I've found a big change from Patch 1.2 to Patch 1.5: The upgrade of a level 3 or level 4 temple to Awesome or Panteon is no longer limited to just Romans! Patch 1.2 explicitly limited this upgrade to ONLY Roman civs, and no one else.

EDIT: (30Dec2005) This turns out to be a bug which is now officially corrected in an "ADDITIONAL ROME CAMPAIGN FIX FOR PATCHES 1.5/1.6". CA intended for only Romans to upgrade a temple_of_horse, "Only Romans are now able to build an Awesome Temple or a Pantheon of Epona". In an unprecedented move for RTW, they provide this single-file fix:

export_descr_buildings.txt - this file must be placed in the Rome data directory. Example path: c:\Program Files\Rome - Total War\data. (download is direct from totalwar.com).

HOWEVER... the same restriction is in effect for constructing Levels 1, 2, and 3: Only 2 civs can build it to level 3... and those 2 civs are still Spain and the Gauls. No one else.

That means if you have a level 1 shrine to Epona, and take possession as a Roman, you cannot upgrade it to level 2 (or level 3). It MUST be at level 3 (or 4) for you to upgrade it.

But another catch. The Gauls, e.g., cannot build a level 4 city, since they cannot build the proconsuls_palace (which requires factions ct_carthage, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, or roman). Hence, the Gauls cannot grow city, and build a level 4 temple.... but they can if the take over a city that has the requisites.

Quoted from export_descr_buildings.txt, PATCH 1.5:

building temple_of_horse
{
levels temple_of_horse_shrine temple_of_horse_temple temple_of_horse_large_temple temple_of_horse_awesome_temple temple_of_horse_pantheon
{
temple_of_horse_shrine requires factions { spain, gauls, }
{
capability
{
happiness_bonus bonus 1
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 1
}
construction 1
cost 400
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
temple_of_horse_temple
}
}
temple_of_horse_temple requires factions { spain, gauls, }
{
capability
{
happiness_bonus bonus 2
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 2
}
construction 2
cost 800
settlement_min large_town
upgrades
{
temple_of_horse_large_temple
}
}
temple_of_horse_large_temple requires factions { spain, gauls, }
{
capability
{
happiness_bonus bonus 3
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 3
}
construction 3
cost 1600
settlement_min city
upgrades
{
temple_of_horse_awesome_temple
}
}
temple_of_horse_awesome_temple
{
capability
{
happiness_bonus bonus 4
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 4
}
construction 5
cost 3200
settlement_min large_city
upgrades
{
temple_of_horse_pantheon
}
}
temple_of_horse_pantheon
{
capability
{
happiness_bonus bonus 5
recruits_exp_bonus bonus 5
}
construction 6
cost 6400
settlement_min huge_city
upgrades
{
}
}
}
plugins
{
}

This thread is now Indexed

WarTrain {} Tech, RTW, Strat Content Contributor, Moderator @ Rome: Total War Heaven
INDEX of Technical Issues & Help {} Patch 1.5/1.6 Install Help/Bug Reports {} INDEX of RTW Discussion & Strategy

[This message has been edited by Wartrain (edited 12-30-2005 @ 12:55 PM).]

RomanKnight
Legionary

posted 27 December 2005 21:44 EDT (US) 16 / 17

Quote:

The Unit Training costs go down a bunch (not too much to be incredible) and units that took 2 turns to build now take 1 turn (Wardogs, Urban Cohorts, Praetorians, etc)

If you want, you can modify the training time for any units you want yourself. Just go to the export_descr_units.txt file in your RTW data folder.

This is what it looks like:

-----------------------------------------------------------

type roman praetorian cohort urban i
dictionary roman_praetorian_cohort_urban_i ; Urban Cohort
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Medium_1
soldier roman_praetorian_cohort_ii, 40, 0, 1.3
officer roman_centurion
officer roman_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 18, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown ap
stat_sec 14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 7, 5, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 5
stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 12, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 860, 350, 90, 130, 860
ownership romans julii,romans brutii,romans scipii,romans senate

-----------------------------------------------------------

See the bold line? Change the first number to 0 from 2.

By this I solemnly swear that the day is coming when the Greeks one and all will miss Achilles badly, and you in your despair will be powerless to help them as they fall in their multitudes to man-slaying Hector. Then you will tear your heart out in remorse for giving no respect to the best of the Greeks. - Swift-footed Achilles, The Iliad

Wartrain
Legionary

posted 28 December 2005 12:07 EDT (US) 17 / 17

Good info. That post has its own index now...
Change/alter build/construction times [export_descr_units.txt]: 1

WarTrain {} Tech, RTW, Strat Content Contributor, Moderator @ Rome: Total War Heaven
INDEX of Technical Issues & Help {} Patch 1.5/1.6 Install Help/Bug Reports {} INDEX of RTW Discussion & Strategy