Actually, armoured elephants are not that great. They are near impossible to stop head-on, but a volley or two of flaming arrows will always send them running into their own teammates.

With the 1.5 patch, berserkers have been toned down to 2 hit points instead of 3. This makes them much weaker.

Spartan hoplites could probably beat them one-on-one, although I'm not sure.

^I'm gonna try that!
Spartans vs. Berserkers
I say Berserkers.

I'd say Urban Cohorts.
Well they are not the "BEST", getting pwned by Spartans but..i donno, i just love them ...you know when you enter a battle and just LOVE to hear that voice whenever you call their unit..URBEEN COHOORTs?..
hmm, maybe i am just dizzzzzzzzy..gotta get some sleeeeeep

For SP, a Spartan Hoplite is not the best overall, if one is Greek. That's because it can ony be made and maintained with severe limitations (2 locations). A lot of threads discuss things like Spartan vs Urban. Early in the game, where most of my own fighting tends to occur, the units I use to dominate (as Roman) are the Equite and the Cretan Archer/Cretan Slinger. Based on maximum effect for the cost, I would have to say the mighty Equite! But if you say best, in terms of any unit any game time/era, well obviously not Equite.

Armoured hoplite, they are cheap, easy to produce early int he game, and powerful

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I did a test in Extended Greek Mod where the berserkers are 2 hitpoints and they beat spartans in phalanx.

That's sick.

I never new berserkers were THAT good. I new the kicked ass against every infantryman, but PHAlANXES?

Wew. I'm going to try them.

But, the best overall unit must be:

My beloved IBERIAN INFANTRY. The're cheap, can hold a line, look cool:P and are a useful flanking force. I love to see them cut trough the enemies line with there falcatas. They rule in the campaign.

But in customs, the Spartan hoplite ignoreseverything like flies. theyrule

I tested Spartan Hoplites vs. Berserkers. Winner? Berserkers win with heavy casualties on both sides, if you don't change anything and do a head on battle. With Phalanx formation on. But, if you spread your Spartans out wide (2 lines deep) Then they spank the Berserkers with very little casualties. The reason? With 5 rows (what the default # of rows is for Spartans) the Berserkers can get around and "inclose" the Spartans, Making the long pikes useless.
With 2 rows, though, the line of the Hoplites is much longer, and the Berserkers can't get around it. Thus, the Berserkers run strait into the pikes, a keep making a futile attempt to break through the Spartan pikes. Therefore, 2 wide lines is a better strategy than 5 thin lines, in this matchup.

I found the berserkers to get slaughtered in the first phase, Berserker Vs Pike. Afterwards the berserkers manage to break through and start slaughtering the formation.

Spartan Hoplites hands down, no contest

Or if you want to include cheat units, then Oliphaunts. Virtually unroutable and can break apart Cataphracts without a single casualty

Once I modded Roman peasants and gave them 99 attack, 99 defense, 99 charge, 99 hitpoints, 99 morale, ect.
Unbeatable! Can kill thousands without ever losing a single man. I also gave them the "launching" capability, so combined with the unbelievable 99 charge, they could send people flying 20 feet on impact! Kinda like elephants, exept a lot smaller. :> )

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lol, thats kinda what happened with my oliphaunts.alot of times, dudes would get thrown so high that they would go off the screen!

back on topic...

but when you say in your title,

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i though you ment best unit as in most affordable, managable cost and good fighting ablility, not the most powerful unit in the game...

following those terms, i would say one of the post-maruis legions.

Berserkers can easily break into phalanxes. Get them to use war cry and they become berserk. They charge at the phalanx, jump right over the spears, and start slaughtering.

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I did that to rebel generals once. uber attack, defense, HP, charge, and the same number of men asa regular infantry unit. Along with the "launching" and "berserk" ability. You can imagine the rest.

Urban Cohorts - I've tried spreading the line as thin as poss against Spartans to negate the advantage of the phalanx with plenty of success.

In campaign i think legionary cohorts are hard to beat - quicker to produce than urbans and less upkeep. Also Chosen Swordsmen rock.

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I laughed so hard when I read that.

Spartans
or
Companion cavalry

Companion cavalry have that awesome charge as well as being able to fight really well in hand to handcombat.

Cataphracts and Companions both have a 9 charge (the highest in the game, other than elephants). The Cats also have 22 defence, higher than the Companions (no doubt from the armor difference), but the Companions have a higher attack rait. I think it's like 13, not sure, but I know the Cats is 8.
What makes Berserkers so special is that they have a 7 charge, yet their infantry. And their huge. Plus, when they hit people, the other troops go flying. lol.

[This message has been edited by TotalWarFanatic (edited 01-08-2006 @ 05:28 PM).]

It's stupid actually, going berserk gives you a better attack sure, but it significantly lowers your defence. Realistically, men going berserk against a Phalanx is like me trying to stab an 18-wheeler powering down the highway.

(Once I modded Roman peasants and gave them 99 attack, 99 defense, 99 charge, 99 hitpoints, 99 morale, ect.)

How would you do something like this? I tried once before and it didn't work. I normally wouldn't do something like this, but I think it would be cool to create a one man "hero" squad that could turn the balance of battle.

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Huh? Barbarian Noble Cav +10... Gothic Cav +10... Greek/Mace/Sele/Eastern General's bodyguard +16... Light Lancers+25 ... Companion Cav +16... Barb warlord+10... Sythian Nobles +17... Sythian Warlord +17... Sarmation Mercs +17... Rebel General +10.

The only cav with 10 charge is scythian nobles, but they suck because charge bonus is useless. The catas, companions, light lancers, and cata camels all have 9 charge, greek armored general also has 9 charge. However these rarely make any difference. Praetorian cavalry completely dominates Companion cavalry in every way despite the lower charge bonus.

Catas have 8 attack, while companions have 10, however catas win easily because of the better armor and AP mace, which is extremely good. Light lancers are good because they are cheap, and since they have no armor, AP units have no effect. SB cavalry is crap, companion is crap. Gothic has a shield which is immune to AP, so it's ok.

You're right, I just looked in the export_descr_unit.txt in Patch 1.5, and see the charge values are altered, generally toned down, from 1.2 in particular. And that will affect some of my strategies. Thanks.

np, but do yourself a favor and disregard the petty charge bonuses. They give u an illusion of power, however if you pit praetorian cavalry, the epitome of combat stats, and the companion cavalry, even with upgrades, the epitome of charge stats, you will see that the former utterly and completely dominates the latter.

If you take both and charge them into the front of a stationary and ready large sized iberian infantry, you will see that the praetorian kills average 10 more than companions on impact, and subsequently routs them much faster than companions.

bottom line, charge bonus sucks

Ugh. I now see that Equites go from 7/7 in 1.2 to 6/5 in 1.5. Equites are now mucho weaker. Barb cav from 9/9 to 8/7. Carth round shield went from 7/2 to 7/4 though. I know what you're saying about the charge bonus & illusion of power... but when the charge bonus is used tactically to force a rout by increasing the short-term casualty rate in a situation where without that bonus the enemy would not be forced over that line and into the rout, it helps. In open combat matchups, I totally agree. However, if one is able to micromange a campaign battle, that charge can be used to great affect. If one assumes that charge will blindly carry the day, then the ones doing the charging will often be in for a rude awakening.

My vote for best overall unit goes to the scythed chariot. Quick, early available, and with some help can tear down trough 66% of the enemy army without a casaulty.

No charge bonus still sucks. Even if you use them for rout, praetorians work alot better. They have MORE initial damage.