The Hammer and Anvil straetgy - Total War Heaven Forum

NA Lord Blaine
Legionary

posted 22 September 2005 16:13 EDT (US) 1 / 20

no way! I thoyght you were suposed to make a spartan circle with onagers and cretans?

sorry, I had to do it...:P
but yes, that is the basic strategy with phalanx nations, that is what makes selucids good(good calvery) and I would suggests at least 8 calvery, because if you loose calvery duel, your are dead meat.

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rtwguru1200
Legionary

posted 22 September 2005 16:49 EDT (US) 2 / 20

This happened to the romans, when Hannibal had a larger cavalry force, wiped out the romans' cavalry, and hit the infantry line from behind. Good strategy, but the romans did the exact same thing to them the next battle :P Started the downfall of hannibal, I believe.

lxpeng
Legionary

posted 22 September 2005 17:18 EDT (US) 3 / 20

Actually, this is a very basic strategy in RTW, infantry to pin and cavalry to flank. But I'm glad you figured it out, when I first played RTW I could never win because I just charged everyone I had at the enemy in one big mob. May work in RTS games but it most definitely didn't work in Rome Total War.

toturi
Legionary

posted 22 September 2005 21:23 EDT (US) 4 / 20

Quote:

I just charged everyone I had at the enemy in one big mob.

Ever seen an all HHM/DC rush? Not pretty but it works.

Power corrupts. Knowledge is power. Study hard, be evil.

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 22 September 2005 21:53 EDT (US) 5 / 20

"What you have to do is to make sure your oppoent charges their infatry head on with the phalanx"

Pretty stupid opponent you got there.

Ace Cataphract
HG Alumnus
(id: Ace_Cataphract)

posted 22 September 2005 23:11 EDT (US) 6 / 20

Quote:

Ever seen an all HHM/DC rush? Not pretty but it works.

Not always.

I put a dollar in one of those change machines. Nothing changed. ~George Carlin

el_bandito
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 04:01 EDT (US) 7 / 20

Barbarian cavalry rush(10 Barbarian Nobles and 10 Barbarian cavalry mix) once decimated my Triarii army. Triarii are friggin useless if you ask me

. Cycle charge owns it.

Michael Jackson

cheezedoodle
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 06:45 EDT (US) 8 / 20

i guess u can call me a noob, but i take all my units and chrge the general. tho, i do play on easy

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Jackrum
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 11:58 EDT (US) 9 / 20

"pretty stuipd opponet you got there"

ahem you have actually played this game right? i mean you do know what the AI are like? e.g give em a wall with a few arches on top on it and they'll put their slowest troops right under it

Sithlord_999
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 12:36 EDT (US) 10 / 20

I think Themistocles was referring to the online part of the game.

Though people do normally charge their infantry straight into your phalanx, it's quite surprising actually. I normally come at their infantry from an angle and try to coordinate two cavalry attacks (if possible) against lesser opponents this confuses and they tend to end up with a lot of dead troops. You must have fast cavalry for this job.

It is normally best to have some infantry in with your cavalry in order to win the cav duel because otherwise it can become very hard to win.

-sithlord

Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 13:50 EDT (US) 11 / 20

Playing on easy? Easy? You have got to be kidding me. Do yourself a favor and start again but put it on hard/hard NOW.

Yes, I was referring to online. Even against the computer they won't always run at a phalanx. I was going to say that hopefully they won't with the new AI from BI and 1.3 but there are no phalanxes.

And yes, Triarii do suck. They aren't worth paying half what they cost to recruit, never bother with them.

Once, against the computer on very hard, I had one unit of town watch and one Triarii (Scipii). Enemy (Carthage) had one unit of round shields. I put the town watch in front of the Triarii and we met head on with the round shields. The town watch absorbed the charge and routed shortly after, the Trirarii proceeded to get DECIMATED by the round shields in straight up melee. They were outnumbered by a margin of 3 or 4 to one by the time they routed. If they didn't route they would have all been killed and the round shields were barely dented while I was left with about 10 Triarii out of 81.

That really shows you how horribly useless triarii are. (and how much of a cheat the computer gets on very hard. I hated very hard because it was so unbalaned in that way)

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 09-23-2005 @ 01:55 PM).]

The Roses Thorn
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 14:11 EDT (US) 12 / 20

Well, Triarii can get elephants to rout without the elephants even reaching them...but then again so do archers...and onagers...ad scorpions...and a cavalry charge...nevermind.

"Math is the language in which God has written the universe."

NA Lord Blaine
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 14:39 EDT (US) 13 / 20

well that is what you get for facing a gold cheveron openent with only 1 weak unit and 1 ok one...

Quote:

Once, against the computer on very hard, I had one unit of town watch and one Triarii (Scipii). Enemy (Carthage) had one unit of round shields. I put the town watch in front of the Triarii and we met head on with the round shields. The town watch absorbed the charge and routed shortly after, the Trirarii proceeded to get DECIMATED by the round shields in straight up melee. They were outnumbered by a margin of 3 or 4 to one by the time they routed. If they didn't route they would have all been killed and the round shields were barely dented while I was left with about 10 Triarii out of 81.

��(-� ₤ o r d B l a i n Ʃ �-)��
RTWH | ETWH | OD [ Hark Upon the Gale ] [��]�λ�[��]
�Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.�
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Themistocles472
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 14:44 EDT (US) 14 / 20

Gold chevron? Who said anything about a gold chevron unit?

One weak unit and one okay one? For one, the point of that post was to show that Triarii suck. They are suppose to be the best Roman infantry pre marius and they suck. They are suppose to have a bonus vs cavalry but the worse cavalry in the game (round shields, come one!!) destroyed them in melee. Round shiels are a WEAK unit.

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 09-23-2005 @ 02:45 PM).]

Sithlord_999
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 15:24 EDT (US) 15 / 20

I reckon someone should completely remodel Triarii. They should have a form of short phalanx, have a decent defence against cavalry, and actually be worth having, then again, so should all non-hoplite/phalangite spearmen in the game. I also think it would be nice to have a system where you could gain triarii by having a unit of hastatii or principes get lots of experience.

-sithlord

yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus

posted 23 September 2005 16:53 EDT (US) 16 / 20

I play hammer and anvil with every faction, though I do sometimes mix in missile duels/shooting fish in a barrel (against the AI). One good tactic I have found for chasing down AI missile troops is hammer and anvil, but using the cavalry as the anvil and the infantry as the hammer. It really works, as they close around the cavalry, I allow them to surround the cavalry while the infantry that are charging in barrel into the skirmishers and wipe them out. It is best done with generals and ligt infantry (Eastern Infantry are surprisingly good at this).

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Brock88
Legionary

posted 23 September 2005 23:31 EDT (US) 17 / 20

The hammer and anvil strategy is as old as warfare itself. Though not always in infantry/cavalry form, it has been used in one form or the other.

Anyway, on getting AI to charge your phalanx, it's actually pretty easy even on hard. All you do is get skirmishers and get the AI to chase after it, run back to your line and run through your hoplites and the enemy will follow and crash into the spear wall.

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yakcamkir
Seraph Emeritus

posted 25 September 2005 04:22 EDT (US) 18 / 20

Another good way is to put your infantry in standard formation, waiting for the enemy to attack. Even Peltasts just charge you head on. Then you put your infantry back into phalanx formation, and the AI fails to change the orders. Watching the routing speed when 15 units of Peltasts charge 8 units of Armoured Hoplites from the front is quite fun. I didn't even need to flank them.

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Bitmapmonster
Banned

posted 25 September 2005 07:22 EDT (US) 19 / 20

Gaj
Legionary

posted 25 September 2005 11:57 EDT (US) 20 / 20

You don't even need a phalanx. Urbans, Praetorians, even Town Watch (if you're quick enough) can be the anvil. The whole point is that you attack the enemy from the side or rear, causing him to route.

But you cannot count on
A) Having your enemy charge head-on. If your enemy will charge a phalanx, you might as well sit there and enjoy the show.
B) Having stronger cavalry than your opponent. Phalanxes are even more vulnerable to flanking than regular infantry, so if you lose your cavalry instead, you are doubly in trouble.

The Hammer and Anvil is the simplest strategy, and really only is effective if the enemy is already going to lose. Its fine for that purpose, but I don't think that was why Alexander was so great.

GAJ