I, too, struggled with cav-on-cav engagements for a while but I've noticed something recently.

Remember, unless you're under intense pressure, try clicking on the enemy cav just once. That way, you're cav will walk to the target and charge at the last moment to get maximum charge bonus.
I've also found wedge formation is devastating against enemy cav.
You need decent cav too. It's no use trying to win cav duels with crap units and if both cavs are equally matched, try the wedge.

If my cav is being charged, I double click on the target to get my horses charging at them straight away because the AI doesn't seem to be able to reconfigure its "walk-then-charge" manoeuvre against oncoming running enemy cav.

Also, make sure after the charge you press alt+right click so that your cav pull out their secondary weapon....that second weapon negates(ignores) 50% of the enemy armour.

Do Roman cav have alt-weapons?

Quote:

This is NOT true. Cataphracts are the only cavalry unit who have an AP secondary weapon.

Using secondary weapons is a fairly simple thing, but you need to know your stats. A unit such as Preatorian Cavalry's initial attack and secondary attack are identicle, the difference is that the secondary attack is a sword and uses no attributes whereas the first attack uses the spear attribute; giving it a slight bonus against cavalry and a penalty against infantry. Thus Preatorian cavalry should draw swords when engaging infantry.

In an instance where a units secondary attack is clearly better such as with Cataphracts (it does 2 points more damage and is armour peircing) it is generally better to use it against all targets.

Just check out the export_decr_unit file to check on what kind of cavalry you plan on using.

LOL *wiping tears from eyes* I too know the feeling Mike. I feel the same way if someone were to be conscripted into my calvary, their families and neighbors probaly throw them a last going away bash knowing they will n'er to be seen again in this life.

I just suck with fighting after that charge, I try harrasments, charing and pulling out to regroup. But often in my recent game of playing Greeks, while regrouping I'm getting chased and mowed down.

Now I just keep my horses in the rear and have them chase down runners or try to out flank enemy already engaged in combat with my hoplites.

My equites [u]adamantly insist[/s] on charging into enemy phalanxes despite my orders. Any suggestions?

That's impossible, either you ordered your equites into the fray or the phalanxes advanced on them. Equites are not an impetuous unit (unless they are modded) so they couldn't have charged in without your permission.

yeah, I have that troble too. Cavlary just takes too much micromanagement. A little micromanagement is fun, but you can't leave them alone for five seconds.

The basic counter to enemy cavalry charging yours is to run the other way for a short distance and then whip them around and charge up their nose.

I suppose that that is just a modification on the mongol tactic where they would feign a charge and then flee, getting their enemies to chase them out of position and then turning on the spot and runnign over them.

Also, do this with the alt button, so when they stop, they switch to their secondary weapon. This is a helluva lot more effective than using the primary weapon, and I don't care what you say, its true.

Quote:

From what I've read on these forums, Greek cavalry suck and really are only effective to chase routers. I want to play as Greece for the phalanx units but I prefer civs with strong cavalry.

well thats helpful
I can use these on the guals, im playing as the britons and they enemy have terribal cav
(gleafully relishes the thought of victory and terror)

I think most cavalry FAQs out there already gave very good detailed strategy about how to make good use of the cavalry. I took their advice at heart and found my Cavalry become my main attack force. All my army stacks consist of mainly cavalry (equates, I'm playing Rome) with one infantry (or two if I plan to use my army to face an army with size close to a full stack) no archers and no skirmishers (velites) plus one onager for attacking city wall. Often time, my infantry has only limited contact with the enemy force.

With cavalry I can usually wipe out all the infantries (from weak warband to hoplite phalanxes) with minimum (or no loss if the infantry units are not heavily banded together). Against cavalry units, I also usually get them into "shaken" state very soon once I engage them.

To me, there is one and only one way when using my cavalry: attack the enemy unit from rear and flank.

My strategy: Divide and Conquer
Because my units are mainly cavalry, I can't go head to head against the enemy units directly. Thus I try to engage them section by section.

As I said, the only way to engage any unit with cavalry is from rear and flank, here's how you get into the position.

To get to the rear or flank of a cavalry, you need to have at least one unit in front of them to get their attention. Usually, it's less likely you can directly position your troop by putting one cavalry in front of the enemy and others at its rear or side. Because the enemy cavalry may be deep in its troops. Generally move one cavalry slowly to the edge of the enemy to lure some small number of units (if they are not already charging to you) out while having some attacking cavalry units at the far sides of this decoy unit and be ready to charge.

Once you get some enemy units moving forward, lead them some more distance by pulling your decoy cavalry back (walking if possible to keep them on hook) to be further away from the rest of their idle units. This also helps to position your waiting cavalry units to be at the side of the enemy units. Then charge the side cavalry into the enemy units. Always pay attention to the direction the enemy units are facing and never charge into an infantry facing you, that could be a disaster. But for archers or skirmishers, there's no need to concern.

If the enemy units are cavalry, sometimes you may need to also charge your decoy unit back into the pursuing enemy cavalry if they will reach your decoy unit before your attacking cavalry units can reach their rear/flank first. Because when an enemy unit reach your cavalry's back, they can easily wipe out over half of your unit fast. By charging the decoy unit back into the pursuing cavalry, at least the impact won't be that much, you sustain much less loss. Either way, once your attacking cavalry reach the enemy's flank or rear, it's a sure victory.

With this strategy, one unit of equate (size 27) can take on one unit of any enemy force (warband, hoplite phalanxes of size 60) at a time easily.

Yes, there are lots of micro management here and I pause often once my units engage the enemy. It's vital to avoid charging into spear heads at all cost. But with this strategy, I can keep my army size small with lots of army units. Most fights I encountered, the enemy size is always much higher than mine and sometimes the number could be close to 2 to 1. The result is always that I have a minor loss with the enemy army fully wiped out (I always continue fighting when prompted). I get "crushing victory" oftentimes so I don't put general in my army anymore (I leave them to be governors to grow my cities). In every one or two battles, I have my captain promoted to be a general because the crushing victory. Thus I'm spreading generals to all my cities.

During my campaign against the Gauls [as Roman Julii] I was testing out some different cavalry tactics. During one battle of evenly matched forces, I seemed to slack off and let victory get away from me. My soldiers began to route and only three units of cavalry were left.

I decided that I'd try to take out their general and a few infantry units before I lost the battle. I spread out my horses, having one remain in the center as bait - continuously dashing about to draw them farther down the slope. My other cavalry had snuck up on either side of the attacking force, and, when the moment was prime, I sent one down the right flank of the enemy to pummel them.

After the inital charge shock wore off, I sent the attacking cavalry off to minimize losses. Just as this unit was escaping, my second flanking cavalry charged in from behind the same unit.

I was able to do this for quite some time between three Equites units. I, of course, lost the battle at the end, simply because they had a large reserve force that flooded my cavalry. But I was able to destroy a large portion of their army and kill their general.

I've used this cavalry hit and run method in other scenarios to great effect. Its of course most effective against infantry in which your own infantry are having problems with.

EDIT: Ha, I just read the post above me. Oh well.

[This message has been edited by Gaius Sacratus (edited 10-08-2005 @ 08:20 AM).]

Do the converted souls for cavalry stand by it for the Greeks? As has been said, Greek cavalry really does seem pretty awful. My general bodyguard unit is more useful to get a fighting bonus out of phalanxes than it is actually fighting.

My cavalry are essentially a suicide squad anymore. If they survive, great, but they just can't seem to run away after the initial charge.

So instead, I've been charging them in, trying to time it so they hit with the first barrage of missiles. I target the cavalry for the weakest units to try to engineer a rout. Then MAYBE the general comes out along with any Thracian or Bastarnes I've hired along the way. They're so fast that they make a competent mop-up force. I had a unit of Thracians brace themselves and pitch a routing unit of Equites off their horses. Hilarious.

Greek Cavalry suck initially, but after they gain valor, they become better. When they reach +3 Valor, they're great units as long as they're not fighting enemy cavalry or spearmen from in front.

wow, people are still answering
this post.

To reply to THANATOS

It is possible for the Equites to randomly charge into spears. I have found (at least in 1.2) that grouped units of cavalry have a tendancy to ignore your specific instructions to charge a particular enemy unit. Some of them will, instead, charge the nearest unit instead. Also if the equites clip (the edge of the cavalry unit hits the edge of the enemy) another enemy unit on the way to their deisgnated target , they sometimes get distracted and turn on the unit they clipped.

Even with 1.3 after installing bi I have regular cavalry units, none that are impetuous, charge nearby enemy units while I am attempting to maneuver them. They also fall to the "clipping" you mentioned, if a few of them glance the enemy unit they all get sucked into a melee. It can be quite frustrating when they simply refuse to listen to you and end up getting massacred as a result.

[This message has been edited by Themistocles472 (edited 10-17-2005 @ 01:47 PM).]

I find ordering my army to attack a unit in the rear usually results into my army practically shattering the enemy frontlines to get to the general located in the back.

Last time i did that in the campaign, the enemy army practically died in formation....a line of WRE red...

For cav on cav engagements, put your cav in two groups. Engage with one then flank with the other. The enemy cav will rout. If they don't then you were going to get wiped out anyway.

Strategies shouldn't be dependent on always having superior numbers and troop power, though.

It's a goal you should always have in mind and makes life a lot easier, but there are going to be times when the fight comes to you, and it's those instances where a masterful handling of cavalry can save your ass.

But again, the question becomes "how?"

I use only two methods to fight cavalry on cavalry. Firstly, like yakcamir says, 2 units, distract em with one , hit them in the flanks or rear with the other.
Secondly, works wonders with wimpy Greek cavalry, send your cavalry in a head on attack to another cavalry unit, then run away before you hit them, let them chase you.... onto a waiting phalanx unit that only goes 'Phalanx' in the last two seconds before impact. Wait 5 seconds and charge in your scaredy-cat cavalry just before the enemy runs away or routs. That should take care of them.
If you pause just as you go 'phalanx', zoom in to in front of the phalanx, then unpause, you get one of the most poetical and aesthetic sights outside of a National Art Museum, 80 enemy cavalrymen charging onto a solid bank of spears... Exquisite!
i sometimes weep with emotion at that one...!!