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Topic Subject: Sallying out, chipping away
posted 05 November 2005 19:52 EDT (US)   
In my egypt campaign (h/h,) the Seleucid Empire, Pontus and Parthia all want my head on a plate. And they're allied. Ugh.

So while I'm blazing a trail of conquered land west through Carthage and Numidia, my nortern frontier (mostly old Seleucid cities,) keeps getting pounded by full-stack armies. Sometimes two at once.

These cities are fresh and need development so I can't crank out much beyond Nubian spearmen. So instead, I've relied on sallying out to break a siege. Not with a full-on conflict, but my sallying out once a turn with long-range skirmishers.

I don't have any Cretan archers, and I wouldn't risk such a great unit out there, but slingers are infinitely disposable and cheap. Chariot archers are amazingly adept at this stuff too.

Just skirmish. Chip away at the more vulnerable troops, and if you have an opportunity, try to rout dangerous stuff. Take pot shots at the general, try to rout elephants and scythed chariots, etc. When they charge, flee. A lot of the time, they'll try to respond with missile cavalry or marching up one unit of infantry. Mow down missile cavalry with chariot archers' melee charge and just keep your distance from infantry and take shots at them. In the long run, you can earn some valor for your ranged troops and if you cut down even just a hundred or so, it'll sometimes cause the besieging army to give up the fight.

If you're in an ugly situation where the besieging army isn't nearly so conservative as to let a band of slingers just drop infantry for free, you have to be careful, but it can be a good way to lure an army up into range of archers within the walls and within range of towers. If you don't mind watching them get chopped down, do it for the full thirty and exit the battle just before the time is up. Remember that in a sally battle, you don't lose for exiting the battle unless your units are still outside the gates.

Replies:
posted 05 November 2005 20:42 EDT (US)     1 / 7  
There's no need to 'chipping away' at them when you have phalanx units. Just wait till they attack you, then put a couple of those babies in some of the narrow streets leading to the town square, sit back and enjoy watching their entire amry getting butchered. All the while, keep training an elite army in your main cities and send them on a strike against their capital or large cities. Cripple their economy and let them wither away.
posted 05 November 2005 21:41 EDT (US)     2 / 7  
Very few armies have reliable phalanxes early on.

A phalanx defense is great when you have a Greek army, but it's just not practical for lots of others. Early Egyptian and Seleucid armies have phalanxes, but piss-poor ones. And of course plenty of armies have no phalanxes at all.

If they're the be-all end-all to your defense strategy, my slingers and archers would like a word with you.

posted 05 November 2005 22:01 EDT (US)     3 / 7  
1) You were talking about sieges (fighting in cities) this renders slingers and archers mostly useless once you get away from the walls.

2) Even a crappy phalanx unit can hold off several good units in a narrow street (not to mention the phalanx mercanaries). Put several phalanx units together, and it's impossible for the AI to break through. And they hardly break when attacked from the front and have their backs/flanks secured.

3)Who said they were the 'be-all end-all' to my defensive strategy? I mainly use them for city defence when attacked by an overwhelming force.


Give me my legions, and I'll give you the world.

[This message has been edited by Centy (edited 11-05-2005 @ 10:29 PM).]

posted 06 November 2005 10:48 EDT (US)     4 / 7  
I'm with Centy. 4 militia hoplites around the city square can hold of most armies, unless they have mass heavy cavalry or elephants, but the AI rarely build such armies (even with Parthia and Scythia...)

"The real Art of Peace is not to sacrifice a single one of your warriors to defeat an enemy. Vanquish your foes by always keeping yourself in a safe and unassailable position; then no one will suffer any losses."
-Morihei Ueshiba, founder of aikido

English is not my first language, so please excuse me.

posted 06 November 2005 10:58 EDT (US)     5 / 7  
The most obvious reason why he cant is not only are nubian spears not very good (I learned that against militia hoplites!!!!) but with the seliciuds (pardon my spelling I have been away for a while) they have spears that are longer!, and the enmy will have lots of archers and such since they are parthians. And I have had enemy parthian armies with cata's in em attack me, its not very fun.
posted 06 November 2005 13:23 EDT (US)     6 / 7  
I'm glad someone gets it. YES I could just defend a square with some elite Spartans.

But I'm not playing as Greece and not all tactics can accomodate phalanxes. And even in a Greek situation, it can be useful if you have Rhodian slingers. (I wouldn't risk Cretan archers since they can't seem to outrun much of anything.)

Do you want your city under siege for several turns until they've built the battering rams, then have to repair your walls?

If you let your slingers or other ranged units go out there and chip away at their men, they might lift the siege on their own, restoring the town's economy and saving you the trouble of repairing walls and retraining the units that get busted up.

posted 06 November 2005 15:58 EDT (US)     7 / 7  
I think that you need a balance of ranged units and phalanxes, especially when fighting Parthia, who have no phalanxes with which to fight yours.

Use your "chipping away" strategy, but then when they chase you, have them chase you right into a phalanx held gate.

Also, whenever you have the chance, send full armies of peasants into the city and disband them. Although it may seem a little costly for the intial minimal payoff, it helps you immensly in the long run.


"War gives the right of the conquerors to impose any conditions they please upon the vanquished."
-Julius Caesar
There's no justice like conqueror's justice.

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