Well, it was in the year 33 (or really the year 27, because a few centurys ago they changed our calender with a few years, so Jesus was really born in 6 BC). The game goes untill the year 16 (I think), at least it does not go to 27 AD or 33 AD. So no, it is not included.
You can mod the game so it ends later, but it's still not included. I have once seen the game pass 0 AD/BC but there wasn't a message over Jesus being born, so they wouldn't have the crusifixation included.

(Correct me if Í'm wrong )

Ok, so you mean that if I dont have the amount of provinces owned that is required by year 16, I lose??????

Hmmm, for some reason I though the game went to like 200 AD.

You can make the game go past 14AD by editing the end date in descr_strat. I don't think it affects existing campaigns. You should have the provinces you need by that time though.

Do a search on Jesus in these forums. I vaguely remember someone describing some acknowledgement of Jesus in the game.
I think it was something like you get a message around 1AD (when people heard of the birth of Christ) saying there is great unrest around Jerusalem.
I dunno, check it out. It's around somewhere.

Who's this Jesus guy? Was he like Sulla or Attila the hun or something?

Gaius Collinius :: You know, the Son of God as the Christians believe it...

[This message has been edited by Iason Caesar (edited 12-22-2005 @ 11:07 AM).]

Quote:

The Son of God. Also known as Christ (the English representation of the Greek word Χριστός, transliterated as Khristós), and three days from now, the birth of Jesus Christ (the namesake of the remembrance, Christmas) will be marked in western culture (and indeed... by non-Christians!) throughout much of the world as a time of joy, peace, and giving.

Historically, whatever a person's personal religious view, Jesus Christ lived as an actual person, and Jewish expectation of His coming (the Messiah) was an influence in the Judean Roman world even in the years leading to the birth of Jesus. Interestingly, Jesus is an important character in three major religions: Christianity (one of the Trinity: God, The Son, and the Holy Spirit); Judaism (a Prophet, but according to Jews, not the Son of God); and much much later (AD 600's), Islam (Jesus was a Prophet, but not divine). Ultimately, the Romans themselves were Christianized late in the life of the Roman Empire, but that is more of a factor in the BI era as opposed to RTW.

The general effect of Jesus Christ, who was ironically the ultimate peacemaker of His times, might have been considered in the unrest of the Judean area modeled by the Rome: Total War game -- a permanent 30% unrest penalty. In RTW, one must keep extra troops in order to quell unhappiness & discontent... much like the troubles of Pontius Pilate (the Roman governor whom pronounced the order of crucifixion, at the behest of the Pharisees). In fact, about 100 years later, Rome destroyed the Jewish Temple (and the Holy of Holies) in Jerusalem, and renamed the area Palestine to add insult to the Jews (the ancient Jewish enemies called the Philistines, who are not the modern Palestinians, were the source of the Roman rename). To this day, unrest marks the region, and the ultimately unsuccessful attempt of the Roman Empire in 135 A.D. to remove Jews from the region (the Diaspora, or dispersal) has only recently been reversed... as prophesied in the Bible about 2,000 years ago.

RTW does not mention Christ explicitly, however in \Data\descr_sounds.txt , a christmas tree is referenced in line 162. Interestingly, three CA employees own their RTW-credited namesakes to Christ. However, the name Jesus is not actually in any game files.

There is also a more subtle & indirect modeling: Kings, wise men, trade caravans, and ordinary people, were aware of the birth of Christ and its special significance, and the crossroads of trade in that area that evidently allowed travel along the trade routes converging in that vicinity is also modeled in the very high trade that the Judean area can achieve in the game. The Roman roads used for military and trade likely aided this travel. As mentioned before, you can mod the game to account for events like the birth, the crucifixion, the Resurrection (Easter) of Jesus... or even the spread of Christianity in the years between RTW and BI.

In \Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_events.txt, lines 7&8 reference a 'new religion' in the summer of 8, but were commented out (removed) from the final RTW build's gameplay:

; eventnew_religion
; date8 summer

Lines 148 & 149 speak of "trouble" in Judea, albeit long before Christ's birth and the actions of King Herod in reality:

eventtrouble_in_judea
date284 winter

The Judean unrest simulated in RTW in part comes from events like when Herod the Great, son of Herod Antipas II, had to flee for his life because of a successful revolt by the Hasmonaean Antigonus -- Herod fled to Rome to gather to himself a Roman army of sufficient size, and return and to take Jerusalem and establish himself king of Judea. In 39 BC, Herod is appointed “king” of the Jews by the Roman senate, but is not able to establish himself as de facto king until two years later. In 37 BC, Herod took Jerusalem and deposed the Jewish Hasmonaean prince, Antigonus, son of Aristobulus. Herod persuaded the Roman Mark Antony to kill Antigonus and to seek out the principal members of Antigonus’ party, putting them to death. The Hasmonaean rule was crushed, and thus ended the troubled period of the Maccabees (or Hasmonaeans) that began in 164 BC. Herod’s rule effectively began in either 37 or 36 BC.

Herod was respected by the Romans as a builder of fortresses, cities, temples, aqueducts. He encouraged foreign trade by building a port at Caesarea -- which RTW simualtes in the trade aspect of Judea. The Jews hated Herod for his heavy taxation, for his tyrannous cruelty and selfishness, and his political scheming which included many murders.

By the year 30 BC, Rome emerged as the sixth world in Bible prophecy (the previous five world powers were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece)... as simulated in the game RTW, the Roman Empire eventually subjugated an area extending from the British Isles, through much of Europe, all around the Mediterranean, and beyond Babylon in Mesopotamia to the Persian Gulf.

Line 809 of \Data\text\strat.txt expounds on the "trouble"... which seems to be a reference to the Gospel of Matthew and Luke in the Bible. An error in most modern nativity scenes is that the wise men (the Bible does not say how many, only that 3 kinds gifts were brought) were certainly not at the manger the night Jesus was born. It says that the wise men (Magi) came to Jesus' house, so it seems clear that the wise men came just prior to the time Herod issued his decree to slaughter all the boys under two years. The star first appeared to the wise men when Jesus was born, but it led the wise men to Jesus' house (Matthew 2:11 "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother").

Quoted from Line 809 of \Data\text\strat.txt:

In Judea, while Joseph, Mary, and Jesus were living in a house in Bethlehem, astrologers (not numbered in the Bible) came from the east to Jerusalem to find the one who was born king of the Jews; this probably occurred sometime between mid-November of 2 BC and Herod’s death (which occurred before Passover of 1 BC). The astrologers inquired first of "mad client ruler" King Herod about the whereabouts of this newborn king of the Jews. All Jerusalem become agitated -- again, as RTW simulates. The astrologers visitd the “young child” in Bethlehem and gave gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Then they withdraw, being given divine warning, and returned without reporting to Herod. Joseph was warned in a dream and fled immediately to Egypt (then a Roman province) with Mary and Jesus.

Herod ordered the massacre of male children in Judea (Matt. 2:16-18) when the Magi did not return from Bethlehem as Herod had requested (Matt. 2:8), and that was probably because they never went to Bethlehem. Herod concluded that he had been outwitted, and became enraged -- then Herod ordered his soldiers to butcher all Judean children under two years of age. He chose this age group because he knew the child (Jesus) was no longer a newborn infant, but must have been between one and two years of age. This calculation was probably based on the time when wise men said they first saw the star, and the time required for their travel to Judea.

RTW's "mad client ruler" Herod ordered that all the boys in Bethlehem from two years and under be killed, thus the murder of Jewish infants fulfilled Jeremiah's prophecy of "great mourning and weeping for the children" (Jer. 31:15).

Jesus [mentioned, RTW, role, year]: 1

Damn, Wartrain, that was quite possibly the best reply to a question I've ever seen in these forums.
It was amazing.

I agree with greasypig. Great post.

Um, Wartrain, how do you do it? Eek...

And the Jesus unit is just a hoax. He was supposedly an 'adulterer', and a poor general in Judea. Hoax.

Ive heard rumors tht a messege does come on but I doubt it?

About the message, it does not exist. There are some references to adultry, however. Line 394 of export_descr_character_traits.txt:

Trait Girls
    Characters family
    AntiTraits Prim, Upright

Starting in line 64 of export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt, the 4 adulterer degrees are stated. The 4 adultry descriptions are here:

Quoted from export_VnVs.txt:

And in strat.txt, line 808, the Roman adultry Law is described:
{SMT_LEX_ADULTERIIS_COERCENDIS_BODY}The Roman Senate have passed a new law making marital unfaithfulness a public crime. To commit adultery now carries the sentence of death or, in some cases, banishment from Rome for the lovers.

In descr_events.txt, Line 145, the Summer of 271 is the event lex_adulteriis_coercendis. The very next event is Winter, 284: eventtrouble_in_judea. That may be where the Adultry/Judea association comes from, but there is not an association of Jesus with it in either text or events.

[This message has been edited by Wartrain (edited 12-27-2005 @ 03:59 AM).]

All other things aside, you could also argue that from the larger Roman perspective (which this game is about) Jesus was simply a non-issue.

The faith was spread later on. But at the time it actually happened, it was just an execution of a rebellious prophet in a far away province - something that probably happened every other day throughout the vast empire. Aside from his followers and the local community/administration, I doubt it registered with anyone.

Please mind I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I'm just trying to describe the point of view of Rome at the time, not the one of early (or contemporary) Christianity.

[This message has been edited by bertel (edited 01-05-2006 @ 10:47 AM).]

The funny thing is, although the Romans crucified Jesus, they later accepted Christianity as their official religion!
Hence the term, "Roman Catholicism." The eastern section of the Roman empire (who later became the Byzantines) didn't support the catholic way as much, so they created their own denomination, the Orthodox church.
The Romans killed Jesus in attempt to stop the spread of his teachings, but as it turns out it only made them spread further. Funny thing, history. We can learn a lot from it.

Actually, the "Roman" in "Roman Catholicism" is from the city of Rome, rather than any association with the Roman Empire. After Imperial authority in the west was transferred to the Eastern Emperor in 476 with the deposition of the last Western Emperor by his Gothic general, the Roman Empire was reunified. Ever since that time, the eastern and western Churches slowly drifted apart until the western Church, under the Popes in Rome (hence Roman Catholics), permanently severed ties with the eastern Church (and vice versa) in 1054. There had been previous schisms, but they had all been resolved. This last one has not to this day been undone.

The Orthodox did not split from the Catholics, nor did the Catholics split from the Orthodox. The Catholic Church sundered, leaving the two halves divided into east and west. The Roman Catholics were nothing more than western Christendom, and the Eastern Orthodox nothing more than Eastern Christendom.

And most historians who care enough to look into the matter will tell you that nobody called the Byantines "byzantines" until very much after Constantinople fell in 1453. Until that time, they still called themselves the Roman Empire, despite not having controlled the city of Rome itself from almost a millenium. The fact is, Rome had become such a backwater that it didn't matter enough to hold onto. Constantinople, Syria, Egypt, etc. were so much more important, and the threat of Islam so much greater, that the Roman Empire decided to let Rome go as the useless cash sink that it had become and focus its efforts on regions that mattered.

Wartrain....there is one more: Sexual; predator:

Level Casual_Adulterer
Description Casual_Adulterer_desc
EffectsDescription Casual_Adulterer_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect TroopMorale 2

Level Blatant_Adulterer
Description Blatant_Adulterer_desc
EffectsDescription Blatant_Adulterer_effects_desc
Threshold 4

Effect Influence -1
Effect TroopMorale 1

Level Womaniser
Description Womaniser_desc
EffectsDescription Womaniser_effects_desc
Threshold 8

Effect Influence -1

Level Won't_Take_No_For_An_Answer
Description Won't_Take_No_For_An_Answer_desc
EffectsDescription Won't_Take_No_For_An_Answer_effects_desc
Threshold 16

Effect Influence -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Sexual_Predator
Description Sexual_Predator_desc
EffectsDescription Sexual_Predator_effects_desc
Epithet Sexual_Predator_epithet_desc
Threshold 36

Effect Influence -2
Effect TroopMorale -2