Best value would be the GeForce 6600 AGP. That can probably get up around 6-8,000 on high settings.

I agree, I have been very satisfied with my PCI-Express 6600GT. I believe that currently the speed difference from PCI-Express to AGP is negligible.

Hi Tankman!

You are running a 6800 already, right? That is $200-class card, and should be fine. Its already better than the 6600.

BTW, here are specs for one example 6800 video card specs. Yours should be similar:

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However, Rome: Total War is not a Graphics Card limited game (if you have a good card, naturally). It is a CPU limited game. And your CPU is 3.4GHz+, as I recall (OC'd Celery, right?).

So if you are experiencing lag with your CPU+Video card, it is a primarily a system related issue (e.g., configuration/BIOS/driver). On one friend's machine, he's running RTW with just an AMD XP 2100 machine + FX5700, and little lag. Of course, I totally gutted his machine and fixed it from the ground up to run fast. And it does. Ditto for the machine I am typing this on. I run RTW on my personal machine with AMD XP 2600 and a mere integrated GeForce 4, which is roughly the equivilent of an MX400! I get little or no lag. But it runs fast because of the optimized configuration I use. A faster video card would actually not improve speed much, unless I get into higher resolutions (I run at 1024x768).

A 4.8 GHz Athlon 64 will run 5,000 men on the screen better than a 3.2. CPU matters in RTW. Going from a 6800 to a 7xxx will not help much if the CPU remains constant. General opinion seems to hold that going from a 6800 ultra to a 7800 can give a 40-50% improvment in graphics-only performance. Note that if you are CPU-limited, this won't be as great, depending on your chosen video settings. However, for reasons I posted in another thread with you, I would not shell out the bucks for an Athlon64 4.6+ quite yet. But if you got the $$ (~$1,000 will do, plus the MB), then get an AMD FX57.

Bottom line: If you are using a 6800 and OC 3.4++ celeron, stick with it for now. Your lag is likely coming from system configuration issues, not hardware... though faster hardware will mask a non-optimized gaming system.

However, Rome: Total War is not a Graphics Card limited game (if you have a good card, naturally). It is a CPU limited game. And your CPU is 3.4GHz+, as I recall (OC'd Celery, right?).
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Right..only its at 4.1GHZ now

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a non-optimized gaming system.
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How do I optimize for gaming?!?!?
Is there A online guide for it??

How do I optimize for gaming?!?!?

I will talk about it, but this is not a strict HOWTO. Many of the details are simply from years of experience, and not an exact procedure. In part, that is because it depends on each individual machine to some extent.

When I take a look at someone's machine in person, in every single case I have ever come across, the person had their machine misconfigured, or less than optimum setup. Over 2,000 windows installations so far. Every one! No exceptions. However, almost every one could "run" when you turn it on. But they run badly, with conflicts, run choppy, with lag, yada yada yada....

For a few people who are friends, I fix it. It can take me about 8 hours in some cases. In every case, when I am done, the machine works great, and non of the problems I read about on this board or other ones exist. I know about so many problems mostly because I see what people have before we scrap their OS and reinstall from scratch. I will not be able to explain all in this post of just why/how everything is done, as it would take hours or days to write.

General Outline (not a HOWTO!!):
1. Take the machine apart, examine all hardware, replace the weak links, like old hard drives.
2. Update MB & Video Card BIOS, then set every setting by hand, from scratch.
3. Repartion their drive into hard drive into logical drives C: thru H:
3.a. C: is 2GB, with emergency boot (like Win98 or DOS)
3.b. D: is typically 1 GB, with ONLY a swapfile. Nothing else.
3.c. E: is 6.4GB, and contains Temp & Cache files, only.
3.d. F: is typically 24 or 48 MB, and is the main OS.
3.e. G: is usually 24 MB, and the alternate boot OS.
3.f. H: has most of the rest of the drive capacity for data.
4. Install XP (from a custom configuration, slipstreamed, optimized; processes and reasons for just how are contained throughout the MS Knowledge Base & are quite complicated)
5. Optimize all services & registry settings (fairly complicated).
6. Install whatever games and programs... if they do not conflict with other programs (I test each, and know from experience, or else it does not go on a machine).

The repartitioning is a key, nay crucial, element to keeping a MS machine running as well as the MS OS will allow it. I use Partition Magic to do the work.

It is essential to note that if you are not confident in plowing into your registry and understanding it, that it is far far far far simpler for you just re-install your Windows every 6 months or so... more frequently if you start having slowdowns or problems. Problems usually happen as a result of web surfing (I won't go into all that in this post), installing/removing programs, and testing games.

As far as online sources go, I'd google for it. I'm sure there are guides that are written. However, there are no simple "magic bullets". A person cannot just do whatever "damage" to an OS and expect to click on an .exe and cure all.

Your machine, with a 6800 and 4.1 GHz, even from a mere Celeron, should be a screamer. Unfortunately, I cannot give you a golden bullet. Even a fresh install of Windows XP is not optimized for gaming, but I cannot explain all the things I do since it really is vast, and always a work in progess. LOL, I am currently testing two optimized builds of XP as we speak, and this process has been ongoing since XP came out. One method of optimizing some aspects of an XP install is to google for nLite. Then read the several hundred hotfixes and hotfix candidates, particularly for XP SP3 (not released yet). Then do driver optimization. On and on. Its basically recursive. .

So don't bite off on everything at one. Instead, know exactly what a single tweak or idea or recommendation does, and build on that. DO NOT blindly go to a site, and blindly apply some "miracle cure!" It will take time, but you will be playing games for years to come (in the big picture).

Hope this helps, or at least makes you aware that 'optimization' as I define the term is not a trivial issue. Things like "Set AGP Aperture Size to 128" are a single item, of hundreds of possibilities, in optimization. And many things only make an impact when they are done properly, in conjuction with other seemingly unrelated things (like network and sound, for instance).

SOOOoooo.... bottom line? Back up your system. Then think about tweaks. Likely, the best tweak is to repartition and install a 2nd OS on one of the new partitions, then get it up to speed, and only play a few of your 'best' games, like RTW, on it.

PS, I guess I'll have to make a basic HOWTO out of this sometime, because I'm sure others have these kinds of questions too.

This post is made in connection with this post and thread, but applies to the broader question of 'best GPU'.

In general, the absolute base entry I'd go for in the ATI line is the x800 series. Really, since you will play games with it for a year or more, the 1xxx series is the best choice, because the lower series simply cannot render the new games in their best 3D glory.

So in that context, here is an overview (partial introduction) to ATI's recent GPU series.

ATI VIDEO CARD SUMMARIES (From ATI)

Radeon® X1800 Series
This is it. The new Radeon X1800 series hands you the visual and performance possibilities you only dreamed of from a PC graphics processor. It has been designed with a radically new ultra-threaded 3D architecture and Shader Model 3.0, unleashing the most mind-blowing gaming effects. What’s more, the X1800 introduces ATI’s revolutionary Avivo™, our new reference for video and display perfection...

Radeon® X1600 Series
The Radeon X1600 series is designed to deliver outstanding digital entertainment and 3D graphics through its unique ultra-threaded core architecture and Avivo™ video and display technology. The X1600 is CrossFire™ Ready to deliver the ultimate gaming performance...

Radeon® X1300 Series
Step-up to serious 3D performance and image quality with ATI’s new Radeon X1300 series. For greatly enhanced visuals, the Radeon X1300 combines a radically new and efficient 3D architecture with ATI’s revolutionary new AvivoTM video and display technology. The X1300 delivers superior visual performance for all types of PC entertainment and productivity...

Radeon® X850 Graphics Technology
The Radeon® X850 series provides High Definition quality visuals and break through performance for an extreme gaming experience with today’s titles...

Radeon® X800 Graphics Technology
The Radeon® X800 graphics technology, award-winning high-end 3D performance , with up to 16 pipelines, higher clock speeds and breakthrough image enhancement technology...

Radeon® X700 Graphics Technology
The Radeon® X700’s advanced graphics architecture and on-board memory will easily handle today’s workload and visual entertainment with plenty of power for tomorrow’s possibilities...

Radeon® X600 Graphics Technology
Take your graphics to new visual heights with Radeon® X600 graphics technology fully supporting PCI Express design specifications...

Radeon® X550 Graphics Technology
Get the most from your gaming, digital photography, video editing and web surfing experiences with the Radeon® X550...

Radeon® X300 Graphics Technology
Radeon® X300 graphics technology is an affordable upgrade to broaden the visual possibilities on your PC...

Radeon® 9800 Graphics Technology
The cinematic revolution continues with Radeon® 9800 Series. A supercharged AGP-based card with 256-bit DDR memory interface and a thrilling 8-pixel pipeline...
Radeon® 9800 XT
Radeon® 9800 PRO
Radeon® 9800

Radeon® 9600 Graphics Technology
Enter the Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 universe with a combination of power, longevity and cinematic-quality imagery. With its quad-pipe architecture and Microsoft® DirectX® optimized features...
Radeon® 9600 XT
Radeon® 9600 PRO
Radeon® 9600

Radeon® 9550 Graphics Technology
The Radeon® 9550 delivers an exceptional visual experience for the value minded gamer and PC enthusiast...

Radeon® 9200 Graphics Technology
Radeon® 9200 series delivers a dazzling visual experience driven by an advanced Quad-pipe rendering architecture, full support for the AGP 8X standard and extremely programmable geometry and texture engines...
Radeon® 9250
Radeon® 9200
Radeon® 9200 SE

Relative performance indicator (THG), Fear (1024x768x32, 4xAA, 8xAF, SS, Max Quality)

The Huge unit size was included by CA for one reason (accrding to their programmers): Video cards that did not yet exist when making RTW, specifically with 512MB or more of RAM for textures. The texture issue and how graphics cards really use it is a limiting factor, and storage is a key to avoiding CTDs and slowdowns.

For about $400, here is the new Asus Extreme N7800GT/2DHTV GeForce 7800 GT Video Card, which has dual GPUs:

THG tested two Extreme 7800 GT Dual cards in an Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe (Revision 2)... and these benchmards are conservative because this concept is "not yet fully functional and not officially supported by NVIDIA." Compare this to the other benchmarks:

BTW, at full 3D graphical load, these cards together consume almost 400 watts of power!!!

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If I have got it right, you work with doing this kind of things? If so, how much do you take for it?

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Yes, I do this stuff a lot, but not for a living. Its for relatives & certain friends (& their kids), but not for money. It began in University, in the 1980's at the dawn of the PC era, and has continued to this day, since everywhere I go (e.g., even work, LOL) people just don't have PCs that run as good as they should.

The post you quoted is not a howto... it is only a general outline. But I'll make a guide about it in January, for those that are interested. If someone already knows what that post is talking about (most won't), its enough to get started (e.g., I think tankman used some info in it). It is neither a quick fix nor a miracle cure... though 8 to 12 hours is quick to some, and results may seem 'miraculous' to others.

^^Okey, then I guess it will have to wait for me. I have no idea what to do yet, but I study at 'IT-Gymnasiet', so I guess I will be able to do it soon.

I've studied at the IT-Universiteet (masters), and their tech director does not seem to know about some of this stuff. All they do is what most 'regular' people do... get it running, no matter how badly. As long as it runs. most of the time.