From those specs, it looks like option #5 is the most value-for-money. The thing is, you don't have to build it yourself. You can ask someone you know to do it for you. Or in the first place, you don't have to get your hardware from Newegg. There're a lot of PC shops that do so. You can go to them, select the parts you want, and they'll build it for you.

As for the graphics card, I don't recommend getting the X850XT. It's kind of like old technology. If I were to get a card from the X800 series, I would go for the new and revamped X800GT cards. There's a new card made by Sapphire, called the X800GTO16, which has the same number of pipelines as the X850XT. Over here, it costs only half the price of the latter. Of course, its performance is a little below the X850XT, but it's already very good.

Since you'd like to get an nVidia card, may I suggest getting the 6800GS. It's another new, bang-for-buck graphics card.

*edit* Btw, building a PC yourself isn't as tough as it's often thought to be. I dug out this article about building a budget system. I've met and even spoke to the person who built that system and wrote the article. He's one of the world's finest overclockers, so he knows his stuff well. Very reliable source of info. You might want to give that article a go, then see if you feel a little more confident about it. Of course, I don't expect you to know how to build a PC after reading it. Just hope that it removes most of the doubts you have.

[This message has been edited by Duan Xuan (edited 12-14-2005 @ 00:22 AM).]

Great Post Don Xuan! Whilst you were making your, I was actually answering his in the baths! And (though mine is longer winded) we say pretty much the same thing right down the line, here.

Here are links to various parts, as I'd narrow the list to (links are full, so you can see the source):

PARTS LIST

$99 Antec Sonata II Quiet Super Mid Tower Case (Piano Black) Retail
w/450W Power Supply
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=140122

$162 Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce 4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240418
2000MT/s, ATA/133, 4DDR DIMM, 2 PCI Express x16, 2 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA
http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=375&modelmenu=1
http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=375&l1=3&l2=15&l3=0

$334 Retail Boxed AMD Athlon 64 4000+ Processor (San Diego)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80724-5

$29 Asus Star Ice CPU Cooler Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=372300

$166 Corsair VS2GBKIT400C3 2GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 Value Select Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80098-86
2048MB (2x 1GB), DDR, PC3200 2x128Mx64, non-ECC 2x184 DIMM, Unbuffered, CL3, 64Mx8 DRAMs

$235 Asus EN6800GT-2DT256 GeForce 6800 GT PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=324538

$133 Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 300GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100719-4

$48 Liteon SOHW-1693S 16X DVD Dual Drive (Black) Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=170661

$28 Mitsumi FA404A/FA404M-Black 7-in-1 USB 2.0 Media Drive (Black)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductList.jsp?ThirdCategoryCode=010901&SortBy=D

OTHER

$95 Antec TruePower TrueBlue480 True480 Power Supply Retail w/Blue LED Internal Illuminations
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270018

$103 Thermaltake W0023 Silent PurePower 560W w/Active PFC Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370465

$196 Kingston KVR400X64C3AK2/2G 2GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80098-50
2GB Kit 400MHz DDR PC3200 DIMM 3-3-3 Standard 128M X 64 Non-ECC 400MHz 184-pin Unbuffered DIMM (SDRAM-DDR, 2.6V, CL3, 400mil, TSOP, Double-Sided, Gold)

$215 Asus Extreme N6600GT Silencer/HTD GeForce 6600GT PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card w/HDTV-Out & DVI-I Retail ***PASSIVE COOLING!! NO FAN!!***
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=324570

$135 Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition (Full Version) Single-Pack OEM
MFG SKU: E85-03013
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=604631&ps=sw1

$290 Viewsonic VP171B-2 17in LCD Monitor (Black) Retail *** Free 2nd Day ***
8ms response time w/ThinEdge ultra-slim 17mm bezel
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=231630

FINAL PRICES

ITEM    COST
CASE      99
PS        --
MB       162
CPU      334
FAN       29
RAM      166
GPU      235
HD       133
DVD       48
FLOP      27
       =====
      $1,233
                  -(OPTIONAL)-
                  OS       135
                  TFT      290
                        ======
                          +425
TOTAL $1,233            $1,658

CONCLUSION
So for about $1200 + options you can get a very good system, not including mouse + keyboard. If you get a gaming case, get it without the PS, and get the TrueBlue or Thermaltake W0023. If you don't already have a legal copy of MS XP SP2, get the full version (OEM), which can be bought at this low price only with system parts. You can of course upgrade the video card, depending on just how much performance you want, or even go SLI.

Buy the parts and build it yourself, or get someone to hep you... or take the parts list and go to a company and insist you want these parts.

The only part I would really consider "variable" is the GPU. Do you want quiet? Get the 6600 I listed. Want more power? Get the 6800. Want even more? Shell out $200 - $300 more. Want ATI? Then get some people to post about their ATI cards... I rarely use them, but also will say that they can be good. Their drivers have a bad rep of late, but then nVidia's blow hot and cold too. But I do use nVidia mostly, ever since the original Diamond Viper TNT, which I still have.

EDIT: See Post 4 for motherboard alternatives which can save an additional $30 to $60; this line of ASUS A8N motherboards range from $250 down to $99, all with the same nVidia chipset, SLI, and board speed; the difference is in the features, some of which some users may not need (in which case it is wise to compare, and maybe save some money as Don Xuan suggests). Compare features to needs, and if in doubt and it does not cost a great deal, go 'up'... you can't upgrade later without buying a whole new board and reinstalling it and your OS again from scratch.

[This message has been edited by Wartrain (edited 12-14-2005 @ 09:06 AM).]

Quote:

Thumbs up for a great casing! I'm using the previous version, the Antec Sonata, and it's really silent. The Sonata II does a better job with the cooling, so I'd expect it to be even more quiet than my casing. I can only hear mine in the middle of the night, with my speakers turned off. And the black piano finishing looks great. If you like a silent casing with a classy feel, go for this one.

Wartrain, do you think Bstoned should really get the SLI board? I'm not so sure that's necessary, since his next graphics upgrade would probably be a single GeForce8 card or something like that. Especially if he gets a 6600GT, an SLI board isn't worth it, IMHO.

Quote:

There are other options, to be sure.

I would actually buy the $250 sus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI Athlon 64(FX)/Athlon 64 X2/Sempron Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Dual Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail (2000MT/s, ATA/133, 2 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI Express x4, 3PCI, 4DDR DIMM, USB 2.0/1.1, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA), which mainly features passive heatpipe cooling, but I drew the line at an $88 upgrade that really does not add much in terms of performance.

$250 Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI Athlon 64(FX)/Athlon 64 X2/Sempron Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Dual Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail 2000MT/s, ATA/133, 2 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI Express x4, 3PCI, 4DDR DIMM, USB 2.0/1.1, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=744&modelmenu=1

Given the other components and ability of this board, with the prices league (~1,200 to ~1,600), then I think the $162 board is a good idea. I almost always buy the Deluxe version of ASUS MBs when I make someone a system, but in the SLI, you can save $30 to $60 by going non-deluxe or even non-SLI. Here is the ZZF ASUS pricelist:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductList.jsp?ThirdCategoryCode=011405&SortBy=BD&Brand=ASUS

To be fair to other brands, there are perfectly good alternatives to ASUS, too. ABit in particular, and MSI, are boards that I sometimes use for people, depending on local availability and feature sets at the time of purchase decision.

I've bought a lot from ZipZoomFly, and also some (but not as much) from NewEgg. Neither company has made a mistake or sent me a defective part. For local buying, I like Frye's Electronics (in Texas).

So my answer is yes to SLI, even if not used at first. There is not much price differential (if any), and a later upgrade or resale can make the difference. However, for an average gamer (e.g., no need of multiple networks, extra RAID options, etc. of Deluxe), then this one can save about $30 and still do SLI:

$126 Asus A8N-SLI nForce4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail (1600/2000MT/s, ATA133, 4DDR DIMM, 2 PCI Express x16, 2 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240422
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=382&l1=3&l2=15&l3=148

$99 Asus A8N-SLI SE nForce4 SLI Athlon 64(FX)/64 X2 Dual-Core Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, Serial ATA Retail 1600/2000MT/s, ATA133, 4DDR DIMM, 2 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, Gigaibt LAN, RAID/SATA
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247031
http://www.asus.com.tw/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=789&modelmenu=1

The differences are in the extra connectors, additional chipsets (e.g., Marvell Gigabit LAN for the $129 board): look at the Specs page on the ASUS site for the "small" differences & 'creature comforts'.

The basic Chipset and board capability (e.g., benchmarking) will be the same in all 4 of these ASUS models with SLI, from $99 to $250, and on balance, I'd personally use (do use) the deluxe, but if the extra features are not needed, then the $129 or $99 will do nicely .

Alright a couple of questions-

1) Would I need heatsinks for the RAM?
2) Would the 6800GT have enough power to play BF2 and F.E.A.R on high settings?
3) Would I need to pick up some Arctic Silver 5 for the CPU?
4) Would that case have problems with holding in too much heat? (because it is made of steel)
5) Would the PS that comes with the case, and the ones you listed under the "Other" section be able to run SLI?
6) Which RAM would you prefer that I get? (the Kingston or the Corsair that you listed, or neither?)
7) Would getting a soundcard be better than onboard, or would there be no difference?

I'm not really worried about noise THAT much, but I don't want my computer to sound like a jet engine either.

I'm very thankful for your help, Duan Xuan and Wartrain!

[This message has been edited by bstoned (edited 12-14-2005 @ 05:48 PM).]

Quote:

Not if you don't overclock. For RAM, they term it "heat spreader".

Quote:

See charts of performance comparison. Yes, it has the power. Its a matter of resulting framerate. Spending ~$300 more will get top framrates today. Also, with SLI, you can add another graphic card for more power if you want (see charts I posted; look at Tom's Hardware Guide and 3D gaming sites for more opinions).

Quote:

I use it; however, AMD ships good compound with its retail boxed CPUs.

Quote:

No. I use this case, in particular the Sonata I, with AMD 64s. It is an OUTSTANDING case. But it is not 'see thru', and is a few pounds heavier than a lightweight LAN party machine. The powersupply is rock solid... and it is in the price. The workmanship is impeccable, inside and out. It is very quiet. Accept no imitations .

Quote:

Yes. If you get a LAN party case, get one of the 2 PSs I listed (I recommend them because I use them).

Quote:

I use Kingston. You will likely not see a real difference in actual use. I include Corsair because it is also very good.

Quote:

Keep the onboard sound. Get a sound card later if you need... its an easy upgrade. I usually don't, unless people have special sound needs.

I think I'll up my budject to $2000. I would prefer to get the 7800GT, but I also want a decent speaker system, MS Work Suite, and Antivirus software. All of the won't fit into my old budget so I'll save up more than what I was planning.

Thanks guys!

Wartrain has answered almost everything that I have to say. I'll just add in my two cents.

Quote:

The material of the casing doesn't affect the temperatures inside. It only affects durability, weight and the amount of sound it can muffle. Steel casings are much heavier than aluminium or plastic ones, but they're very solid. Vibrations from the inside, resulting from high-speed fans, hard disks and plain sound, can all be muffled by steel.

I feel that it's important to give a lot of thought to what casing to get. You want a casing with the looks and quality, as well as ease of installation. It's a a part of a PC that most people neglect. I have a friend who got a pretty good system earlier this year, but he didn't think about what casing to get beforehand. As a result, he ran out of his budget, and had to settle for a S$20 iCute casing, made of plastic. I went to his house the other day and found the noise to be quite annoying. It was incredibly hot inside the casing too, despite it having 7 case fans.

Some other suggestions that I have for casings are the Thermaltake Soprano, Gigabyte Aurora and Antec P180. They don't come with PSUs though, and are pretty expensive, especially the P180.

Anyway, I've side-tracked a tad too much. I was saying, the material of the casing doesn't affect temperatures. It's the amount of airflow inside that does. I personally shun casings with only 80mm fans. I prefer those with 120mm ones, since these larger fans generate larger airflow in CFM (cubic feet per minute) and hence don't have to spin as fast as smaller fans. Faster fans = more noise.

If you look at pictures of the front of the Sonata II, you'll see that the bottom is bulging outwards. In the old Sonata, the bulge wasn't there. There were two air intake vents there, but it's a little too small to be effective. The Sonata II has made those vents much larger now, hence improving air intake. I personally don't give a damn about the Sonata II's new air duct feature, because it's so bulky. I feel that the rear exhaust fan is sufficient. If not, installing another 120mm fan in the front will do (I did).

As long as there is good cable management inside the casing, airflow wouldn't be a problem.

Quote:

I'm personally not very concerned about the brand of RAM. Brands like Corsair (world no. 1), Kingston, TwinMOS, etc etc, all get their memory chips (the black rectangles you see on RAM modules) from memory manufacturers like Samsung, Hynix, Winbond, Infineon, etc. As long as the RAM does its job well, I don't mind forgoing a more expensive Corsair module just to get a cheaper GeIL one. There're a lot of good brands out there such as GeIL, OCZ, Patriot, G.Skill, etc. It's just that brands like Corsair and Kingston are very well known. I personally wouldn't mind not buying from them if budget is an issue (although I am using Kingston now ).

Quote:

I agree with Wartrain on this one. But of course, it's up to you. The question is, will you be getting surround sound? If not, a sound card is unnecessary. Otherwise, I recommend the Creative X-Fi Music Xtreme, which is an entry level X-Fi card. A few weeks ago, I went to a local IT fair and I visited the Creative booth. There was this X-Fi live demo, so me and my friends went in to try out. I was utterly blown away by the quality of sound that this new technology card rendered. Of course, it was all with surround sound, without which it would all be pointless. Worth buying if you want very good sound quality.

Quote:

Its your lucky day. I have been testing these product categories in Oct & Nov, and can say:

1. $500 MS Pro Office needs are history, if you get the free Open Office 2.x. If someone needs more, for $69 (or free in education/non-profit), Star Office 8.x. If a company has huge programming staff tied into the MS VB 'solution', then SO 8.x might cause slight hesitation. Average users should all stick with OO 2.x... its free, and works well. There are 2 other major free Office products, but they were not as high quality and still have some quirks. But OO is the way to go fo' mo' fo'lks.

2. And to one of my technical headaches of the year... the best AV, esp. for gamers. Well, to cut through it:
2.a. The fastest major AV product? NOD32.
2.b. The least resource footprint? NOD32.
2.c. The best, bar none, every single week for 6 years, at detecting Virus threats? NOD32. Since its first submission for Virus Bulletin 100% Awards testing in May 1998, NOD32 was the only one that has never missed a single In the Wild virus.
2.d. NOD32 is lean, fast, by far the most accurate of any AV (including NAV & MacAfee).

About the 7800 GT, exactly how much faster is it than a regular 6800, and is it worth an upgrade?

Fellow countryman! The 7800GT is much better than the 6800 vanilla. But of course, the price difference is huge. Have you been down to Sim Lim Square to have a look yet? The former is something like S$600-700+. The latter's only like S$300+.

*edit* If money is not an issue, by all means upgrade. The 7800GT is a great card. You can sell your old card at VR-Zone Forums too, if you're rather tight on budget.

[This message has been edited by Duan Xuan (edited 12-15-2005 @ 08:47 AM).]

We now have an Index where this sort of thing can be more easily found, even in buried posts, here.

The charts are in a couple places (check index again in a day or two for more), like here.

As to the value/worth, that is an individual thing, based on your own assessment of price/performance (P/P). The 7800 can run about $250 to $300 more than the 6800.