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Topic Subject: Multiplayer game lags and freezes
posted 24 December 2005 15:50 EDT (US)   
I could use the help of any player with either RTW 1.5 or BI 1.6. I'd like to do some testing to try a number of settings and options to troubleshoot my setup. Testing would probably take 30-45 mins., which would mainly involve setting up a few games to see if they launch and run correctly. And of course, if we get the thing working well enough, we might even have a game or two afterward.

If you're available and would like to help sometime, flash me an email or IM. My info is listed in my profile.

Ever since these patches were installed, I can't stay in a game, but frankly I had some similar but less serious issues before the patch.

Symptoms: During game setup, there are frequent messages from Gamespy that I've lost contact with one player or another. The other players say they are seeing me as the player popping up as losing connectivity. They resolve after 5 or 10 secs. and I can complete setup, but when the battle starts, the game lags horribly and ultimately freezes.

I play Empires: DMW using Gamespy hosting, and it runs perfectly acceptably.

Game runs fine in RTW/BI SP battles and should be reasonable on the sets I use in MP, generally medium settings, but even on low sets the same thing happens, so I think it is not related to the machine being overtaxed so much as my connectivity.

Things I've already tried:

-Exiting/disabling all background programs, including Norton AV, Spybot, BHO Demon, ZoneAlarm, MSN, Teamspeak.
-Checked line up/down speed and packet loss, and other connectivity issues using tools from Broadbandreports. All tests returned normal/above average performance in all respects.
-Tried a second NIC in the event the integrated NIC was bad.

Things I've considered doing but haven't yet:

-Updating the BIOS, (haven't done so because the update doesn't appear to fix anything important, or related to this).
-Updating some drivers (I keep the essential ones, like the video card drivers updated).
-Getting a new computer, (haven't done so because I don't want to spend the money just yet).
-Slashing my wrists, (haven't done so because I'm hoping this problem will resolve).

Here is a link to DxDiag.txt: All DxDiag tests run successfully.

Here is a link to technical info on the MB and graphics card

I have noted that the Aperture Size setting in my BIOS is fixed at 64 MB, which has been known to be problematic, but the game runs fine in SP battles of large size, so I have a feeling that's not the problem. And the existing BIOS and the only available update for this board do not have a tab to change aperature size (although the original Intel BIOS does, this board is modified by Gateway as a "Lexington" board and proprietary BIOS.

I have all the board specs sheets.


Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
Replies:
posted 26 December 2005 15:24 EDT (US)     1 / 11  
You may want to try this in the tech forum as well. Wartrain should be able to give you a hand.

Adder |
"I would like to wonder if Adder always acts like a stuck up asshole?" - Coldviper
posted 27 December 2005 09:25 EDT (US)     2 / 11  
[Update]

I completely rebuilt my system over the long weekend. Haven't tried to play online yet, but we'll see how it goes. I've now got a dedicated partition just for gaming/RTW/BI, with it's own OS installed on that partition, so it should reduce the possibility of any conflicts with other games/apps.


Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
posted 27 December 2005 14:27 EDT (US)     3 / 11  
I'm going to go ahead and move this to see if anyone can help in the tech forum.

Adder |
"I would like to wonder if Adder always acts like a stuck up asshole?" - Coldviper
posted 27 December 2005 19:14 EDT (US)     4 / 11  

Quote:

I have noted that the Aperture Size setting in my BIOS is fixed at 64 MB, which has been known to be problematic, but the game runs fine in SP battles of large size,


With 256 MB of video RAM on the 6800GT, the 64MB AGP Aperture size should be OK in most cases. The Aperture is not used until the 256 is consumed. However, RTW was built to consume quantities of video RAM that did not exist on any graphic card in the world in 2004 (using Huge size mostly). So you'll be fine on Large (e.g., 80 unit) sizes. And even in most Huge sizes... except maybe with lots of flame textures, buildings, etc.

1. Questions:
What is your exact RTW install state, right now (e.g., RTW 1.0 installed, no mods, no patches?). Did you do a multi-install?

2. Machine configuration:
- MB (with PCB revision # & BIOS version if you can) [e.g., ASUS A7N8X rev. 1.1)
- RAM (and RAM configuration in BIOS, if not default) (e.g., 2x512MB Hyperion PC3200 running at 2-2-2-5-1T)
- Power supply Maker/model & wattage rating (& rated Amps on 12v & 5v rails if known)
- Network card driver version (network chip should show up if you post a Step5).

3. RTW Preferences.txt (& the revision it is from, e.g., 1.6).

4. Output of current gaming DXDiag.

5. Output of MSInfo32; to post your System Information NFO file: SStart - Run - MSInfo32 - save - choose filename.nfo - Upload file to host - hotlink the file in your post.

posted 27 December 2005 20:56 EDT (US)     5 / 11  
Hi Wartrain, happy to see you have an interest in this challenge. I previously welcomed you to the team, and want to reiterate how happy I am you've joined the HG team whether you can help in this situation or not.

Quote:

1. What is your exact RTW install state, right now (e.g., RTW 1.0 installed, no mods, no patches?). Did you do a multi-install?

RTW is patched to 1.5 using the (presumably correct method) 1.2, 1.3, BI install (to 1.4) and the 1.5 patch, in that order. Both games are installed in a completely vanilla way, no mods, etc.

BI was patched to 1.6 by adding the 1.6 patch after the others noted above.

Quote:

2. Machine configuration:
- MB (with PCB revision # & BIOS version if you can) [e.g., ASUS A7N8X rev. 1.1)

MB is Intel Corporation Model D850MV, Version AAA57887-301

BIOs version is MV85010A.15A.0035.P04.0201071437 (default for the Gateway 700XL) dated Jan. 7, 2002

Quote:

- RAM (and RAM configuration in BIOS, if not default) (e.g., 2x512MB Hyperion PC3200 running at 2-2-2-5-1T)

RAM configuration is 4x256MB RAMBUS PC 400, (standard manufacturers configuration)

Quote:

- Power supply Maker/model & wattage rating (& rated Amps on 12v & 5v rails if known)

Power supply is 350W (upgraded at time of Video card upgrade per wattage requirements of video card vendor)

Quote:

- Network card driver version (network chip should show up if you post a Step5).

I have two network cards: An Intel PRO/100 VE (integrated) card and a 3Com 3C905TX card. The Intel card driver has been updated, but it works no differently from the 3Com card.

Quote:

3. RTW Preferences.txt (& the revision it is from, e.g., 1.6).

The version of this file I have (which hasn't changed much, if at all): link

Quote:

4. Output of current gaming DXDiag.

here

Quote:

5. Output of MSInfo32; to post your System Information NFO file: SStart - Run - MSInfo32 - save - choose filename.nfo - Upload file to host -

hotlink the file in your post.

If there's anything else, as it may be very particular to my system/situation, feel free to email/IM me. We'll be sure to post anyting of significance here.

And yes, I've skipped a couple of very particular questions here because I did't have time to take the case off my computer, but if it's truly required, let me know and I'll be happy to do so.

Thanks in advance for your help.


Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor

[This message has been edited by Chonaman (edited 12-27-2005 @ 09:11 PM).]

posted 27 December 2005 22:26 EDT (US)     6 / 11  

Quote:


BIOs version is MV85010A.15A.0035.P04.0201071437 (default for the Gateway 700XL) dated Jan. 7, 2002


That is very useful. Your BIOS is fine, though Intel disavows this MB and banishes you to Gateway (as if Gateway made it, LOL).

You system is mostly fine.... but.

I'm assuming your fresh install has the same issues as the 1st post.

It is very complicated (and IMHO stupid), but there are certain things tied very closely between the network and sound drivers in MS OSs.

Your sound drivers say 9/13/2001 18:09:48. Yet I'm seeing some files with 2004 dates. Did you install a sound driver update, or is it stock XP drivers? I would try a new update from SB, www.soundblaster.com.
or
http://drivers.soft32.com/driver/download-Creative_Audigy_SB_Live-22633.html

The 3Com 3C905TX card is outstanding, and the most trusted card which I use in person with network issues.

Make sure you disable one network card, from within windows networking (control panel). I'd go with the 3c905tx, and disable the Intel.


For your MB, intel says this:

Quoted from Intel:


Critical Driver Installation Order! Performance, Device, and Driver Problems?

Driver installation order is one of the most crucial issues when talking about overall platform performance. This is especially true for IntelŪ chipsets. Drivers should always be installed in the order displayed in Table 1 below. The most critical step in the installation order is to install the IntelŪ Chipset Software Installation Utility (INF) first before all other drivers. Once the Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility is properly installed device driver installation order becomes less crucial and will have less impact on system performance.

In all cases, it is advised that a clean operating system load be performed before conducting these driver installations.

Table 1: Installation & Configuration Order

Order
1Fresh Operating System Installation
2Latest Service Pack or Patch
3IntelŪ Chipset Software Installation Utility (INF Utility)
4All other device drivers
5IntelŪ Application Accelerator if needed
6Microsoft* DirectX*

Driver Description


IntelŪ Chipset Software Installation Utility (INF)
The IntelŪ Chipset Software Installation Utility (INF) is a driver that enables many features of the Intel chipset that are built into your IntelŪ desktop board. This utility must be installed FIRST in order for the operating system to accurately use the features built into the chipset. If this utility is not installed, the operating system will not know what chipset features exist. Peripherals added may, in most cases, not run to full potential. This is especially true with graphics performance.


IntelŪ Application Accelerator (IAA)
This driver provides all the features of the Intel Ultra ATA Storage Driver, plus Windows* XP support and includes faster boot time via accelerated operating system load time. This driver also enhances disk I/O for games, graphic applications, disk utilities, and media authoring applications. On IntelŪ PentiumŪ 4 processor based systems, this driver provides a performance enhancing data pre-fetcher. The IntelŪ Application Accelerator also provides support for 137GB and larger IDE hard drives.

BTW, this is the sort of reason why I don't like Intel MBs. But that is their reason.


Another thing to look at the is Logitech optical mouse. You might try safe mode, with a standard plain ball mouse connected to PS2. Certain Logitech drivers, for optical mice, have given me difficulties in the past (and you guessed it, I don't use Logitech Cams or mice anymore, and hence have no troubles).


OK, so the summary is that Intel MB (especially that line, after reading about them) + Logitech + Network + Sound = potential for problems in your case. I have seen similar network issues with other games, notabley some Command & Conquer stuff and IPX + early updates of SP1.

It is quite possible for this to manifest in certain network problems, though I am not able to say for sure that X+Y=Z. Eliminate the conflicts: use the "intel method" of mobo install, use the new drivers for SB (e.g., new sound driver if not done already), test with a PS2 ball mouse and LOGITECH drivers uninstalled.

Since I know the drivers for the 3c905TX to be good, and sound to be an issue, you can also try reducing sound acceleration. Be sure to reboot after each new acceleration setting, however, or it won't take affect.

Note: To open Sounds and Audio Devices, click Start, point to Settings, click Control Panel, and then double-click Sounds and Audio Devices. In the Advanced Audio Properties dialog box, configure performance settings for sound hardware acceleration.

At the end of the day, this is a driver/OS/protocol issue, with driver conflict (and possible HW conflict, or at least someting the OS is not working out properly) the most likely. The big unknown is the intel Motherboard drivers... they and/or their registry changes can render certain network activity poorly.

posted 01 January 2006 14:42 EDT (US)     7 / 11  
Just a post script on the status of my game and machine:

Thanks to Wartrain's tips and suggestions, and a complete rebuild of my system to "Wartrain-like" specs, everything seems to be running just fine. Played a few games in yesterdays' forum party and had no disconnects, and I don't think I lagged (at least no one mentioned that I did).

*Another satisfied customer*


Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
posted 02 January 2006 07:45 EDT (US)     8 / 11  
Now that you have a working 2nd OS, comes the most important thing:

Boot to the other OS (your original), and use WinRAR to compress these 3 directories, individually (one by one, so you actaully make 3 RAR files) using the a recovery record of about 3% (in the Advance Tab of RAR)... the recovery record will allow small defects to be corrected, and the file saved, whereas in ZIP, the file is corrupted and lost if even one bit is corrupt:

"Program Files"
"Documents and Settings"
"Windows"

Also compress any other directories (there should normally not be any) that you forced to install outside the defalut "Program Files" location. For example, I install most of my programs to a 4th directory... so I have to back that 4th directory up too.


If you ever have an issue in this OS, like crashes, virus, etc... then just boot to the other OS, and delete PF, DS, and Windows, then extract the 3 corresponding RAR backups in their place... and in a few minutes, you are exactly back to the moment of backup! No fuss. But naturally the key is taking the time to back up when things are going well .

posted 02 January 2006 16:25 EDT (US)     9 / 11  

Quote:

use WinRAR to compress these 3 directories, individually (one by one, so you actaully make 3 RAR files) using the a recovery record of about 3% (in the Advance Tab of RAR)

It would be great to recover a fully operational OS this way, considering the options. However, this option (recovery record of 3%) is inactive (grayed out) in the Advanced tab, perhaps because I have the feeware version of WinRAR? I also see this may be a command line option, but I'm guessing it too only works with the purchased version.


Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
posted 02 January 2006 18:41 EDT (US)     10 / 11  
No. WinRAR is fully functional, not crippleware like many programs. But it is very powerful, and sometimes rather confusing in how things connect.

1. Go to GENERAL tab, & check the "Put Recover Record" box.
2. Go to ADVANCED tab, & adjust Recover Record from 1 to 10%. In my own testing, I find 1 to 3% is enough. I use 3% for the most important backups.

Should a RAR archive ever be damaged, or corrupted, you can use this recovery record to rebuild and replace the destroyed part of the archive (use TOOLS - Repair Archive). It can take a while for the repair to complete, but it does indeed work! If you used WinZip, the archive would be lost. If you used no archiver, your re-install would be corrupt and you would never know it... until the mysterious crashes & problems started occurring that is.

The only reliable way to 100% ensure OS integrity is with a strong archiver, and WinRAR creams the competition with its ability.

BTW, when you create an OS backup, you should also check 2 more boxes in the GENERAL tab... "Create solid archive" and "Test archived files". This will improve compression greatly, and ensure the file is not corrupt at creation time.

posted 04 January 2006 09:17 EDT (US)     11 / 11  
Thanks Wartrain, done successfully!

Total War Heaven Former Angel Cherub and Long-Time Contributor
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