Wartrain, since you seem to be the resident comp expert (your statements baffle me, that's fer sure ), I was wondering...if I quote you me (rough) system specs, could you make any suggestions for upgrades, within a 200-250 dollar price range? (Canadian, so let's say 200 bucks U.S.)
P4 2.6 (can't remember the motherboard tho)
1 gig pc3200 ram
e-vga 6600, 128 mb ram (not a gt model)
audigy white-box model (couple a years old, but still holding up)
Seagate 120 gb drive (can't remember speed)
420 watt powersource

I'm not at home right now, and I don't know my specs completely off the top of my head, and I know its not much to go on, but I'm hoping to tinker in the new year, so any suggestions would be most helpful.
Preciate it, thanks.

[This message has been edited by He113ent (edited 12-12-2005 @ 02:37 AM).]

Quoted from He113ent:

You will be running a P4 MB, so for $200, the upgrade path of CPU to an AMD 3700+ (San Diego core) is not possible because you would need to replace the MB. But if you could sell the MB+CPU to offset the an AMD 64 3700+ or 4000+ (~$270USD and ~$320USD) plus ASUS MB. If your RAM is a single stick, however, you would need to sell the RAM too, and get an identical pair (I prefer matched by maker, like Kingston HyperX, but as Don Xuan points out in another thread, it is possible to use stock parts and do the matching yourself and save ~30; just get a return guarantee in case they don't run well together).

You will see about a 50% or more increase in gaming capability with the CPU+MB+RAM (dual channel).

The 6600 is OK, and will do the job. It is not worth upgrading from that one until next summer. In February, nVidia will drop the 72xx line anyway. And ATI may retake the top spot in graphics with a new card set that on paper is actually superior to nVidia 72xxx (reality is yet to be demonstrated in hardware though).

If the Seagate is an ST300822A or 0822AS, then you are already at 65MB/s on the outer tracks, like the Maxtor 300GB 16MB. The WD Raptor is not really worth P/P it on your hardware.

So I'd wait until you can afford a good MB and AMD 3700+ or 4000+ single core. This is in the $450 league. And 1GB RAM (512+512 hyperX) is $120. If you can offset by selling CPU+MB+RAM (it should fetch $180 or more), you are not too far away. That would give a good solid upgrade, and next summer upgrade the GPU, when the GPU wars really heat up and drive down the 7200s or maybe even the top ATIs.

Of course, I don't know what your monitor is like. You can get a decent LCD flatscreen in the $250 range.

Totem Via
All the way (US Army Insurgent Team War Cry, meaning go all the way and do it right)

[This message has been edited by Wartrain (edited 12-12-2005 @ 08:25 AM).]

Thanks for the tips!
The ram is 4x256 sticks (I upgraded the ram in bits and pieces), and the monitor is a Samsung Syncmaster 755df; 19 inch and good enough for me.
By your suggestions, I think we'll just go for a full overhaul around tax-return time.

Quote:

Quoted from Wartrain:

Yes you were right, it's a Venice core.

Alright so here's a couple more configurations (I'm trying to keep the price at or below $1500 USD, all of these are priced with a 15 inch LCD moniter (17 in some cases because of promotions), speakers, Antivirus, MS Work Suite)-

#1 (a modified version of my previous config) Here it is- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16883102654(this is the "base" system mind you, below is what I will upgrade it to)

CPU: Athlon64 3200 (socket 939, Venice)
RAM: 2gb DDR 400 (2x 1gb)
Video: Radeon X850 XT (PCIe x16)
See the vid card here-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102505

Price: about $1500 USD

I don't know the make and models of the MB because this is a prebuilt computer (it's just that I will be adding the Video Card, and RAM.)

#2 Here it is (its the same base system as the previous one)- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16883102654(again this is the "base" system , below is what I will upgrade it to)

CPU: Athlon64 3700 (socket 939, San Deigo)
RAM: 2gb DDR 400 (2x 1gb)
Video: Radeon X850 Pro (PCIe x16)
Here's the video card-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121534

Price alittle over $1600 USD

Again I don't know the make and models of the MB because this is a prebuilt computer (it's just that I will be adding the Video Card, and RAM.)

#3 A Dell E510

CPU: P4 650 (3.4 Ghz 800Mhz FSB)
RAM: 2gb DDR2 400 (2x 1gb)
Video: Radeon X850 XT (PCIe x16)
Here's the video card-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102505

Price: about $1500 USD

Again I don't know the make and models of the MB because this is a prebuilt computer (it's just that I will be adding the Video Card)

#4 HP d4100e Desktop

CPU: Athlon64 3700 (socket 939 San Deigo)
RAM: 2gb DDR 400 (2x 1gb)
Video: Radeon X850 XT (PCIe x16)
Here's the video card-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102505

Price: about $1500 USD

Again I don't know the make and models of the MB because this is a prebuilt computer (it's just that I will be adding the Video Card)

#5 Fully custom pc (I don't feel comfortable building one from scratch and I would prefer not to)

CPU: Athlon64 3800 (socket 939 San Deigo)
RAM: 2gb DDR 400 (2x 1gb)
Video: Radeon X850 XT (PCIe x16)

Motherboard- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127225

Price about $1500 USD

I want to get a system that gives me the most "bang for my buck", which one of these would be good? If none of them are good can you give me some suggestions (in the $1500 USD range)?

Also, I would like a system that can play BF2 and F.E.A.R on decent settings.

Note: I will answer bluntly; no answer is meant to demean or whatever if someone owns something which is not my own personal favorite... there are a lot of perfectly good computers & components.

Quoted from prebuilt system ad "General specs":

Ugh! Absolutely not. I will not pay M$ for their chopped-down, bug-ridden 'home version' OS... I've never ever allowed any friends or relatives to buy this 'Home' OS, and I have almost never installed XP Home (once or twice as a mercy favor, but that's IT). Get the OEM Windows XP Pro, or get a license from an old computer, or use your existing license (if a person is upgrading, which I know you're not in this case). And do NOT settle for a 'Restore Disk'.... INSIST on the FULL, retail install disk!! And any XP OS you buy now should explicitly be a factory pressed disk with SP2.

Quote:

NO! Get GIGABIT ethernet if you buy now! 10/100/1000!

Quote:

NO! Not a chance in hades! Get DUAL CHANNEL RAM CONTROLLER & Properly configured dual cahnnel RAM, or keep your money.

Quote:

Yes... if you enjoy liesurely:
1. System crashes
2. CTDs
3. BSODs
4. Glitches
5. System hangs
6. Troubleshooting software problems

Get the Antec 480w TruBlue, or better. Price is no object for stability.

Quote:

If you are going to use it, yes. If not, don't buy it. I'm using mine (the Shuttle SN41G2 integrated MX400 IGP 128MB), but I can put a card in anytime.

Quote:

Need read no further. Pentium=pitch. No way. Get [single core] AMD Athlon 64 3700, 4000, or 4200 (all San Diego core).

Given the choice, ATI 8xx, no. Why? Here. And here. Assuming replacement can meet budget, of course. But it does not seem to be a "bad" card, however.

Here are links to various parts, as I'd narrow the list to:

$99 Antec Sonata II Quiet Super Mid Tower Case (Piano Black) Retail
w/450W Power Supply
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=140122

$334 Retail Boxed AMD Athlon 64 4000+ Processor (San Diego)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80724-5

$48 Liteon SOHW-1693S 16X DVD Dual Drive (Black) Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=170661

$28 Mitsumi FA404A/FA404M-Black 7-in-1 USB 2.0 Media Drive (Black)
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductList.jsp?ThirdCategoryCode=010901&SortBy=D

$196 Kingston KVR400X64C3AK2/2G 2GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80098-50
2GB Kit 400MHz DDR PC3200 DIMM 3-3-3 Standard 128M X 64 Non-ECC 400MHz 184-pin Unbuffered DIMM (SDRAM-DDR, 2.6V, CL3, 400mil, TSOP, Double-Sided, Gold)

$166 Corsair VS2GBKIT400C3 2GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 Value Select Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80098-86
2048MB (2x 1GB), DDR, PC3200 2x128Mx64, non-ECC 2x184 DIMM, Unbuffered, CL3, 64Mx8 DRAMs

$162 Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe nForce 4 SLI Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240418
2000MT/s, ATA/133, 4DDR DIMM, 2 PCI Express x16, 2 PCI Express x1, 3PCI, USB 2.0, IEEE 1394, Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA
http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&model=375&modelmenu=1
http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=375&l1=3&l2=15&l3=0

$95 Antec TruePower TrueBlue480 True480 Power Supply Retail w/Blue LED Internal Illuminations
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270018

$103 Thermaltake W0023 Silent PurePower 560W w/Active PFC Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370465

$215 Asus Extreme N6600GT Silencer/HTD GeForce 6600GT PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card w/HDTV-Out & DVI-I Retail ***PASSIVE COOLING!! NO FAN!!***
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=324570

$235 Asus EN6800GT-2DT256 GeForce 6800 GT PCI Express 256MB DDR3 Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=324538

$133 Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 300GB Serial ATA 7200RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100719-4

$29 Asus Star Ice CPU Cooler Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=372300

$135 Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition (Full Version) Single-Pack OEM
MFG SKU: E85-03013
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=604631&ps=sw1

$290 Viewsonic VP171B-2 17in LCD Monitor (Black) Retail *** Free 2nd Day ***
8ms response time w/ThinEdge ultra-slim 17mm bezel
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=231630

And the final prices:

ITEM    COST
CASE      99
PS        --
MB       162
CPU      334
FAN       29
RAM      166
GPU      235
HD       133
DVD       48
FLOP      27
       =====
      $1,233
                  -(OPTIONAL)-
                  OS       135
                  TFT      290
                        ======
                          +425
TOTAL $1,233            $1,658

CONCLUSION
So for about $1200 + options you can get a very good system, not including mouse + keyboard. If you get a gaming case, get it without the PS, and get the TrueBlue or Thermaltake W0023. If you don't already have a legal copy of MS XP SP2, get the full version (OEM), which can be bought at this low price only with system parts. You can of course upgrade the video card, depending on just how much performance you want, or even go SLI.

Buy the parts and build it yourself, or get someone to hep you... or take the parts list and go to a company and insist you want these parts.

The only part I would really consider "variable" is the GPU. Do you want quiet? Get the 6600 I listed. Want more power? Get the 6800. Want even more? Shell out $200 - $300 more. Want ATI? Then get some people to post about their ATI cards... I rarely use them, but also will say that they can be good. Their drivers have a bad rep of late, but then nVidia's blow hot and cold too. But I do use nVidia mostly, ever since the original Diamond Viper TNT, which I still have.

[This message has been edited by Wartrain (edited 12-13-2005 @ 11:57 PM).]

Hey took me a while to dig up this topic but aye ive got a few questions im wondering if anyone can help me.

Im buying a new pc this week custom built ordering every part sepratley and its the first time so im confused a bit.

Im getting a duel coure amd athlon prossesor 939 pinned. and the mother board im buying is a 939 socket. So im assuming the 939 will fit the 939 duel or single coure dont matter.

But im buying a processor fan aswell. And its 939 socket thing but im not sure if it will fit the duel coure. Does anyone know?

Also i dont know what wires to buy. Does anyone know what wires you need for hardrive floopy drive power cables etc like every cable to run a pc?

Quote:

Right. A socket 939 chip will fit a socket 939 MB. Single/dual core is irrelevant... both will work.

Quote:

The fan fit is not a single/dual issue. Its a Motheboard/case physical dimensions issue.

Quote:

If you are buying a major-brand MB, then all the cables are supplied with the MB. Personally, I use the ASUS MBs a lot. A whole lot. But I've also used a few Chainteks & ABits.

You need an 80-pin UDMA (100 or 133 MB/sec high speed IDE connector) flat cable (some you can buy are "round") to connect an IDE hard drive. The alternative is a SATA drive... that is a small (usually red with black connectors) cable. MBs usually supply two SATA cables, one 80-pin UDMA (with two device connectors, master and slave), and one standard IDE connector (either 40 or 80 pin; used for slower speed 33 MB/sec devices like DVD & CD readers).

You will also get a floppy drive connector cable.

You will also get a variable number of USB connector cables.

You can look on the MB maker's website to see what is included in any give box.

Thanks for that man im in the middle of gathering it all up lol Yeh my manufacturer of my mother board is asus it is

Asus A8N-E Nforce4 Ultra PCI-E DDR400 GB LAN SATA

So i think the cables will come with it wont they.

An excellent choice, and yes, the cables come with it.

Are you buying the box or tray version of the CPU? The boxed version will have an AMD stock fan bundled along with it, the tray version is just the CPU (somebody please correct me if I've gotten them mixed up).

You're right, Duan Xuan. And technically, AMD invalidates the retail boxed warranty if you use any other fan than the screamer they provide. The AMD fan will work... but again technically, it has little excess thermal dissapation, which means if you lower the fan speed (ASUS MB can do that) to make it quieter, the temps will go up.

I use a 3rd party fan either way. If you buy OEM (the raw CPU... no retail packaging), then you must go to the OEM provider for warranty (if chip is bad). Usually, its only 1 year warranty. AMD retail gives 3 years. FWIW.

I had a look at it comes boxed with no extra parts such as ram heatsink prossesor etc.

Just a mother board in a box lol. But tommorow is the grand buying lol. Ive gotta nip round my local computer shop to get a crap load of software and my case to start it of.

Thanks all you guys that have helped me through the weeks of planning especially thanks to wartrain and Bstoned cheers guys

Quote:

???

We're talking about the processor. I don't quite get you here...

Ahh just ignore me there lol. Sorry yeh im buying the CPU sepratley so it may come with a box lol

Athlon64 X2 3800+

Is where im getting it. So if it comes with a stock fan that would be pretty cool.

EDIT: Forgot to ask is this worth overclocking? Or can i leave it stock.

Its running with a 256 Sapphire X800GTO and a Asus A8N-E motherboard and 2gb of pc3200 ram (think its 3200)

[This message has been edited by Seany Boi (edited 01-08-2006 @ 12:40 PM).]

From the same company, look at the MSI Geforce 6800GS 256MB DDR3 TVO DVI SLI. And look at the reviews, and

http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=3&tn=3515&st=2#post3

http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=3&tn=3483&st=5#post6

http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=3&tn=3524&st=0#post0

Compare the performance. The 6800GS is much better for about the same price, including performance, esp with options on, and options like DVD rendering and Pixel Shading 3.0.

But the Radeon x800 will work OK, as the charts show... just not as fast, and not near the rendered frame quality of the nVidia 6800 in the most recent games like AoE3.

My advice on OC is don't do it. If you learn all about it, and put the time into it, then maybe. But spend your time playing and having fun instead.

Well ive added that to my text document and the price differ is nothing to worry bout so if its faster im gonna go for it.

I go to pick up money tommorow. My mums worried about it all being compatable. So once ive written up my list ive to send it to her so she can have her IT man look at it lol how sad.

But yeh tommorow is the day Thanks wartrain.