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Topic Subject: What Is Star Wars To You? (RPG Fishing :p)
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posted 12-08-12 09:38 AM EDT (US)   
So, for years, we've hung around here and complained about how Evil Uncle George is destroying all that we know and love about an American classic and major shaper of pop culture. Whether it was Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, a thousand Clone Wars comics that basically chronicle every second between the two films... then the original Clone Wars cartoon, or the new one with even more toys and desperate appeals to the preteen and teenaged female audience (that's not me being a cynic or somehow misogynist; that's from George's words) shoehorned in and merrily retconning and overriding whatever doesn't look cool for the kiddies.

Then there's all of the wonderful Expanded Universe books to wreck the simple, light-hearted adventure (or "dumb action" as Lucas called it in an interview with Rod Roddenberry) of the original trilogy. Whether you blame Anderson, McIntyre, Zahn (?!), Denning, the Vong, the Great Superweapon Dick-Measuring Contest, the Zerg--ah Killiks, Legacy... whatever, something's probably pissing you off in the EU. But we also have the "good" stuff. What that is varies from person to person, but there's usually (not always) something they like, which shapes their perception of Star Wars. Rather, shapes their perception of what Star Wars should be.

Now, some of you probably clicked this because of that "RPG Fishing" thing. Since it's not 2003, I'm guessing it's not to rant and rave about another Moff RPG cropping up in SWU. Well, because Star Wars: Unity is on the quiet side (still alive, though... just waiting on Crazed to post, and he's busy with classes and going to the UK ), I've had plenty of time to think about ways to approach a Star Wars game. Mostly trying to think of how to fix what went wrong in my own games... but things are also very different from 2005. I apparently started SWVII the same day that KotORII came out... and I didn't play KotOR until a few years later. ROTS wasn't out yet. We didn't know much about the Clone Wars (the cartoon was fun). And there certainly wasn't a massive effort to fill in all 25,000 years between the founding of the Republic and ANH. There was no massive war with the Sith that the Republic and Jedi lost that no one remembered. There weren't legions of low-key Jedi, running around, saving the Galaxy from Imperial depredations. There was no prophecy about destroying the Sith, nor Vader wringing his hands about Padme and wallowing in misery.

Star Wars--and how I perceived it and its key elements--was very different in 2005. That's why I can't just simply recreate my old SWVII story (with some minor rewrites to improve the quality of the introductory material). Hell, that's why I can't even really abide by a lot of now-canon stuff. Which got me thinking of reboots.

I think most of us have seen the new Star Trek. Some of us are also probably familiar with Ronald D. Moore's Battlestar Galactica. Both are rather successful examples of reimaginings/reboots. They're edgier, grittier, more suited to a modern audience's tastes than Roddenberry's happy left-wing utopia or Glen Larson's... uh... well, blatant ripping off of Star Wars for the small screen. And the usual drive in Star Wars fandom is for more grit. I guess Han Solo looks more epic when he has to wipe Greedo's aerosolized fluids and organs off his face. Or it lets the Imperials torture him more graphically, making his handsome and defiant sneering at them all the more heroic or something... without taking into account that, in this darker and grittier setting, they'd be more apt to show him a hologram of restrained Leia surrounded by a squad of Stormtroopers and tell him, "Talk... or watch."

Anyway, simply slapping grit onto the setting, adding more blood splatter to the mental camera lens or inserting a brown light filter isn't going to be enough. No, the key to a reboot or reimagining is that you have to completely shift gears. Star Trek was a cerebral social commentary masquerading as a Western in space. It dealt with racism, war, the Cold War, while also providing some time to develop a few characters. The movie is an action flick with the symbology and look of Star Trek with none of the intellectual baggage. Larson's Galactica was a family-friendly space serial with some Mormon tones. Moore's was a dark and brutal tale of how people would actually react to the end of days, and specialized in showing that humans are utter and complete bastards. But it also kept some aesthetic aspects to bridge the gap.

So, how does one do that to Star Wars without completely turning off people that are interested (you know, like the LotF series)? And should it be done at all? And if so, can it be done?

I guess the first part to answering the question is answering what is Star Wars? What do people look for when they fire up a game, draw up a character, or open a book? So tell me.

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[This message has been edited by Moff (edited 12-10-2012 @ 10:44 AM).]

Replies:
posted 12-08-12 02:09 PM EDT (US)     1 / 49  
This question...used to be a lot easier to answer. Star Wars has fallen so far...it's hard to even imagine what could make it good again. Yet there is good in there. There's a handful of interesting characters, primarily from the EU, and lightsabers and the Force (if we can de-uberize it a little...). For me, I think what killed Star Wars is the apotheosis of the Jedi, the idea that whatever the Jedi do is right, and that there could never possibly be an alternative to the Jedi. An idea that seemed to crop up sometime shortly after AotC, which is probably the only canon source to openly criticize the Jedi...or at least individual Jedi.

In some ways, Star Wars is so far gone that I say, "Screw it. I'll go play Mass Effect." What I'd like to see is a darker element without being whiny EMO (Skyrim) or senseless, mindless grit for grit's sake (to some degree, Abrams' Star Trek). I think taking the tone of KotOR2 or Mass Effect, dark but not hopeless or mindless, would be the best direction to take.

I also want to see more sympathetic villains. Dooku was a step in the right direction, until the Clone Wars decided that a sympathetic villain is unacceptable and bastardized him. Kreia, Thrawn, Pellaeon, Yun, Fel (Soontir or Roan)...all had something likable about them. At times, you might even finding yourself wanting them to win. Star Wars needs more antiheroes like Thrawn Trilogy Mara Jade and more non-despicable villains like the above list.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
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"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"And now the moon, earth's friend, that cared so much/for us, and cared so little, comes again—/always a stranger!"--Robert Lowell, "The Public Garden"
posted 12-08-12 03:15 PM EDT (US)     2 / 49  
Indeed. For me, it's all about original characters. I do like having Imperial characters of varying degrees of nobility... but never just outright "RAWR EVIL FOR EVIL'S SAKE." Even the darker ones (when I played Palpatine aside) usually don't take orgasmic glee in evil actions, but instead of bite their lip and do something because they believe it's an act that must be done.

I have zero interest in the adventures of Han, Luke, Leia, Chewbacca, Lando, and the droids... and I will certainly not lay my characters low to stroke the egos of the characters... or their players.

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-08-12 04:03 PM EDT (US)     3 / 49  
Under the risk of sounding unoriginal, what I like to see Star Wars reimagined Zahn-style. The Thrawn Trilogy still stands as the most brilliant Star Wars EU material ever.

One of my friends recently picked them up again and we debated seeing them on the big screen, coming to the conclusion that they're not movie material. They're not an epic saga, they're thrillers.

Star Wars as a thriller, which I know isn't a very precise term, is what I would answer to your question. As you probably know, I've only RP'ed very few Jedi over the years and I am a total fleet junkie. Military (and, as I have grown older, political) exploits are what I like, but with that great little sprinkle of high adventure that Jedi and the likes lend to the Universe. Which is also why the post-Endor, pre-Vong era has always been my favorite: Jedi generally don't dominate the setting, military action and political maneuvering do.

So what I'd like is to really just use Zahn's tales as the main source of inspiration.

ADMIRAL FYYAR
The RPG & Election Ruiner
Lord Fooby & Lord Fyyarby '09 - The Superior Choice
posted 12-08-12 04:20 PM EDT (US)     4 / 49  
Yeah, I like to write it as military sci-fi with some political maneuvering. You should really get into the Honor Harrington series... it's got everything you love.

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-08-12 04:55 PM EDT (US)     5 / 49  
I really should, yes Perhaps it'll be my summer holiday project.

So why don we do that? I absolutely adore the SW capital ships, especially Star Destroyers in all forms and sizes.

ADMIRAL FYYAR
The RPG & Election Ruiner
Lord Fooby & Lord Fyyarby '09 - The Superior Choice
posted 12-08-12 05:08 PM EDT (US)     6 / 49  
Tough question. Cool armour really. Stormtroopers, Vader, Boba Fett, heck all the Mandos, Revan and even Starkiller. If Starkiller had been done properly, I think he could have been an interesting and complex character. It was rubbish that they rushed his entire existence like that all for a little extra cash.

I liked the way different factions were portrayed as groups - the Mandos, all at war; the nemodians as shrewd businessmen; the wookies as honourable clans and so on. But that's just another thing that Mass Effect did better, I guess.

I've looked at very little EU material. I guess at some points I was really caught by the atmosphere in the SW universe. I think it happened mostly in the KotOR games, but a little in the films too. It was really captivating - and its very difficult to describe.

Finally, I think SW was huge potential as a very complex universe. Unfortunately, Lucas chose to focus on the tiniest little thing and say "THIS IS ALL THAT COUNTS!!" As I said I haven't dabbled in the EU, but from what I've heard it seems to be made of really good material, but all skewed in different directions creating a very mixed-up place. If only some ground rules or some basis had been set down it would work out much better, instead of "I'm doing something over here, you go and make up something over there"

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posted 12-08-12 05:35 PM EDT (US)     7 / 49  
Well, that's the big problem I've had is running afoul of all of George's rewrites. For example, Carida is going to appear in an upcoming TCW episode. And will probably get ****ed up all to hell.

But even the ships and stuff are horribly inconsistent. For example, Venator and Imperial class Star Destroyers have totally different armaments in the films compared to the roleplaying guides and guidebooks (well, not totally for the Venator... but no one accounts for those gun galleries). And then you have how powerful fighters are versus capships... and then how powerful they are versus ground vehicles. And it all gets messy and horrible and confusing.

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-08-12 05:54 PM EDT (US)     8 / 49  
You see, some of us can live with a general idea of how much things go boom and such. A universe doesn't need a fully detailed set of calculations for battle to be fun to take part in

ADMIRAL FYYAR
The RPG & Election Ruiner
Lord Fooby & Lord Fyyarby '09 - The Superior Choice
posted 12-08-12 06:19 PM EDT (US)     9 / 49  
My point is that even relative figures are inconsistent or nonexistent. Not detailed numbers, but even something a tenth as detailed as GB is nearly impossible.

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-08-12 07:49 PM EDT (US)     10 / 49  
But even the ships and stuff are horribly inconsistent. For example, Venator and Imperial class Star Destroyers have totally different armaments in the films compared to the roleplaying guides and guidebooks (well, not totally for the Venator... but no one accounts for those gun galleries).
And what the hell happened to Victories? I don't have my technical books any more, but when I first read about them, Victory star destroyers had been in use at the end of the old republic (and were in fact the main capital ship of that period). Imagine my surprise when they didn't appear anywhere in the movies.


Anyway. My original core amalgamation of star wars was the OT, and some EU stuff (Thrawn and the surrounding material). As has been said, Jedi weren't really a factor (there were never many running around). What really defined the setting for me, and set it aside from other series, was its expanse. Throughout all of that material, everything seems enormous. I mean, look at the death star. The size of the empire that built it is phenomenal, and the fact that that empire could hold together across that vast distance is both mind boggling, and shows how large the empire must me. When the New Republic actually started to govern significant portions of space, it became less interesting.

It's a problem with a lot of SF- the unknown in your universe is often far more interesting than anything you could make up. If you try to define everything, you'll make everything not that interesting, and take out all the room for imagination to create new interesting things around it. For me, SW was interesting because it was imaginative, and largely undefined. There were tons and tons of people and aliens and the like, all interacting with each other, and we didn't really know anything about them. Somebody did, but we don't.

The problem came when things started to get defined and regularized, both spatially and chronologically. The more of the galaxy that was explored and standardized (through our exposure to it), the less interesting it became, and the less room authors had to create new elements (that's why they had to resort to tricks like pulling the Vong from outside the galaxy- there wasn't enough room for them in galaxy). Star Wars has gradually chipped away at that undefined space around the fringes. The fact that the Unknown Regions even appeared is something of a symptom of that, in my book- the universe was already well enough known that they had to add a region that wasn't.

Chronological definition is another problem. The clone wars used to be just a name, that sounded cool and killed a bunch of jedi and man does that sound awesome. As expected, the reality that we were shown was far less than our imaginations could imagine. And honestly, the Republic isn't interesting. It's just backstory. Showing it makes it less appealing, and just further defines the universe.

My ideal reboot, then, would preserve elements of unknown, and expand on elements of scale. No unknown regions, no outside the galaxy- if we ever even begin to define any small portion of the galaxy, we're doing it wrong. If we ever stop defining new bits of galaxy, and visiting new settings, we're doing it wrong. And if anyone can understand the whole galaxy in any useful way, we're doing it wrong.

I hope that makes some semblance of sense.

Maegereg
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posted 12-08-12 08:28 PM EDT (US)     11 / 49  
Some. I agree with a lot of what sapped the interest from SW. But then, for a game, having some defined "playing area" is good. The universe can be defined... as long as the scale allows room to stretch your legs. Also, if those definitions stay constant and aren't utterly ridiculous. For all of my science rants, I'm actually willing to forgive a lot of stuff for SW.

For instance, humanity shouldn't exist. No, screw that genetic diversity and probability crap; I don't mean that. I mean humanity evolved on a planet orbiting a star that would've died before the planet would've cooled enough to have a solid surface. And I will forgive that. Not to mention lightsabers, hyperdrive, blasters, ion engines (in terms of strength), blah blah blah... that's fine.

But when gravity magically reverses so the five-mile long ship doesn't hit the magical Jedi planet... no, **** you. Or when the astrophysicist takes his calipers to his widescreen and calculates that the Death Star has a power output that outstrips the current system of metric prefixes by several orders of magnitude, and a stray shot from a light escort vessel can render a planet utterly uninhabitable.

And then the roleplaying stuff... I mean, a Y-Wing through a TIE Defender can be hunted down--in atmosphere--by an aircraft built by a "mere" industrial state twenty to thirty years after the discovery of the jet engine. That's why I want to do a reboot in a technological sense... as for story, well... yeah. Prequels, TCW, and comics. What's to work with?

I would likely draw upon the backstory notes presented in the Thrawn trilogy while paying some lip service to the prequels. Anakin would likely be older, the gap between events longer... the birth of Luke and Leia not tied to the end of the Clone Wars...

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
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posted 12-08-12 10:31 PM EDT (US)     12 / 49  
I have mixed feelings about Zahn. The Heir to the Empire trilogy is good. Just about everything he's written after that...well, it goes downhill with each successive book. The only thing outside of HttE that I've really liked is when he gives glimpses at Chiss culture, especially in the two books centering around Outbound Flight.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"And now the moon, earth's friend, that cared so much/for us, and cared so little, comes again—/always a stranger!"--Robert Lowell, "The Public Garden"
posted 12-08-12 10:46 PM EDT (US)     13 / 49  
Again, less Zahn himself... more the backstory he was provided before George rewrote it all to appeal to teenagers and young kids.

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-21-12 04:52 PM EDT (US)     14 / 49  
Also, I'd like Force users to be scary, very few in number, shrouded in mystery (as per Tarkin's comments in ANH). And, of course, with Blue and Orange Morality.

ADMIRAL FYYAR
The RPG & Election Ruiner
Lord Fooby & Lord Fyyarby '09 - The Superior Choice
posted 12-21-12 05:02 PM EDT (US)     15 / 49  
shrouded in mystery (as per Tarkin's comments in ANH)
"They're all dead"?

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-21-12 05:16 PM EDT (US)     16 / 49  
What Is Star Wars To You?
A bunch of movies, videogames, books, toys, and bad TV Specials.

ARMY STRONG
"Rhys wins this thread." - Tsavong Lah | "Gen freakin wins." - Jon Rolos | "...Any mercenary force trained by you, Dallows, would be all kinds of awesome." - Flying Ace
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[This message has been edited by Gen_Rhys_Dallows (edited 12-21-2012 @ 05:16 PM).]

posted 12-21-12 05:33 PM EDT (US)     17 / 49  
But that doesn't help with making an RPG with the necessary mix of character stuff and 'splosions. <_<

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-21-12 08:21 PM EDT (US)     18 / 49  
Also, I'd like Force users to be scary, very few in number, shrouded in mystery (as per Tarkin's comments in ANH). And, of course, with Blue and Orange Morality.
Seconded. Though I'm not sure where you're going with Tarkin, since he seemed pretty dismissive of Force users.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"And now the moon, earth's friend, that cared so much/for us, and cared so little, comes again—/always a stranger!"--Robert Lowell, "The Public Garden"
posted 12-21-12 08:56 PM EDT (US)     19 / 49  
I'm curious about how you'd like Blue and Orange to work... especially since it seems like these Force groups define morality, and it's the general populace that are either shades of gray or blue and orange.

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-21-12 08:58 PM EDT (US)     20 / 49  
I'd like to have clear cut high fantasy good guys and bad guys when it comes to the Force. Grey Force users or Force users who'd like to define morality for themselves should be in grave, grave danger of falling.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"And now the moon, earth's friend, that cared so much/for us, and cared so little, comes again—/always a stranger!"--Robert Lowell, "The Public Garden"
posted 12-21-12 09:03 PM EDT (US)     21 / 49  
That's exactly how it is in canon. They dabbled with "shades of gray" with Vergere and Jacen... and the Word of God came down from on high, and every Jedi that espoused that was suddenly pure evil. They're even called "heretics" now.

And... *shrug* I could go with that. I mean, Palpatine's fun aspect is that he is just pure evil. Same with Vader; he's a total badass (if you're talking the original, pre-SE OT) who will snap your neck if you forget the straw for his coffee. He had a small kernel of good at his core, but it was buried under all of the cool stuff. <_<

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-21-12 09:08 PM EDT (US)     22 / 49  
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a bad guy who's not 100% pure bad@ss evil; to me, that was always the appeal of pre-Clone Wars Dooku. I'm just saying I'd prefer that, in the Force, there remain a clear light side and dark side--no "I can use the Dark Side and be a good guy" kind of thing. Unless you're Kyle Katarn. 'cause Kyle Katarn is awesome and does what he wants.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"And now the moon, earth's friend, that cared so much/for us, and cared so little, comes again—/always a stranger!"--Robert Lowell, "The Public Garden"
posted 12-21-12 09:19 PM EDT (US)     23 / 49  
Right. And even then, Kyle has a degree of darkness about him. So it's okay. Same with Luke. Normals can be more gray and/or conflicted. >_>

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-21-12 10:57 PM EDT (US)     24 / 49  
I honestly preferred pre-retcon Vergere. Yes she tortured Jacen to teach him a lesson, but he would've suffered had she been there or not - he was a prisoner of war. Really Vergere was nothing more than an unorthodox teacher like the Dark Woman at first. Having a "grayer" Jedi like her was a refreshing look at a Jedi who wasn't holier-than-thou.

Honestly, I still enjoy about 80% of the EU. What really started killing it for me was the new Clone Wars cartoon that took a huge crap on established material, and TOR, which butchered the KOTOR series. LOTF had some promise if they had just stuck to the civil war aspect and less of the Jacen falling to the dark side, and FOTJ was pure garbage. Abeloth would've been an interesting concept had they left her as a sort of vague psychosis infecting Force-sensitives, not some omnipotent Lovecraft Cthulhu. Legacy and Dawn of the Jedi are pretty good, and I never hated NJO like most Taliban SW fans did.

What I enjoy most about RPGs is the dynamics between my characters and those of others. Politicking is always fun, particularly if there's a Senate around. Of course space battles are fun too, so long as there's an end to be reached and not an "I BRING 20 STAR DESTROYERS AND OBLITERATE YOUR ENTIRE FLEET ZOMG" situation.

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posted 12-21-12 11:02 PM EDT (US)     25 / 49  
Well, that's the real trick: making battles more than just "ZOMG I BRING FIVE BATTLE SQUADRONS AND CRUSH YOUR PUNY FACE"

...We never did figure that out; the most interesting battle was actually the one that never happened: where the Empire smashed a giant fleet flitting about going "OMG I HAVE MORE SHIPS I SHOULD WIN", then burned the planet it was based at to the ground. <_<

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
posted 12-22-12 06:04 AM EDT (US)     26 / 49  
I mean that "sad devotion to an old religion" comment. It makes no sense when Tarkin is old enough to remember the Jedi being everywhere
I'm curious about how you'd like Blue and Orange to work... especially since it seems like these Force groups define morality, and it's the general populace that are either shades of gray or blue and orange.
That's what I'd like to change, dammit The Force users operating with a set of morals that non-Force users don't really get. Of course there should still be Sith, but their evil should have some Lovecraftian shades in my opinion. You know they're pretty darn evil, but also with powers that border on the incomprehensible. Basically divorcing most of the Jedi/Sith conflict from secular Galactic affairs in the eyes of most people, but with catastrophic consequences when they mix, with Palpatine's Empire showcasing that.

I think KOTOR 2 did a good job of this, showing the conflict between the Jedi and Sith to play out at a level most of the Galaxy was not really aware of.

ADMIRAL FYYAR
The RPG & Election Ruiner
Lord Fooby & Lord Fyyarby '09 - The Superior Choice
posted 12-22-12 09:51 AM EDT (US)     27 / 49  
NJO works out to be not utterly horrible in the end, but Legacy was an abomination from start to finish--starting with Jacen falling to the Dark Side for no other reason than because an Emperor's Hand shows up and tells him that there was this one Sith who was a nice guy.

Zaarin | Creator of Coruscant Life SE
deviantArt | New Campaign Coming Soon
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

"And now the moon, earth's friend, that cared so much/for us, and cared so little, comes again—/always a stranger!"--Robert Lowell, "The Public Garden"
posted 12-22-12 09:59 AM EDT (US)     28 / 49  
But... that was Motti, not Tarkin. And he said "sad devotion to that ancient religion", which is actually more a statement of fact. "Old" carries with it a strong connotation of it being before Motti's time; "ancient" carries this as well, but diluted by the alternate usage of being just a statement. And 30,000 years is rather ancient.

As for Motti's age, yes, that's questionable. But yeah, mystery works (...although, considering a damn protocol droid can detect Jediness in TPM... ). As for Blue and Orange...
The Force users operating with a set of morals that non-Force users don't really get. Of course there should still be Sith, but their evil should have some Lovecraftian shades in my opinion. You know they're pretty darn evil, but also with powers that border on the incomprehensible. Basically divorcing most of the Jedi/Sith conflict from secular Galactic affairs in the eyes of most people, but with catastrophic consequences when they mix, with Palpatine's Empire showcasing that.
"The Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice for a thousand generations." That... yeah...
I think KOTOR 2 did a good job of this, showing the conflict between the Jedi and Sith to play out at a level most of the Galaxy was not really aware of.
Very true. Hell, the same could even be said of TPM if taken mostly at face value (i.e. no EU which declares it the absolutely most important trade dispute of all time).
NJO works out to be not utterly horrible in the end, but Legacy was an abomination from start to finish--starting with Jacen falling to the Dark Side for no other reason than because an Emperor's Hand shows up and tells him that there was this one Sith who was a nice guy.
Excuse me... Legacy of the Force. Legacy is a rather well-done comic series. <_<

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[This message has been edited by Moff (edited 12-22-2012 @ 10:01 AM).]

posted 12-26-12 04:29 PM EDT (US)     29 / 49  
I wouldn't mind doing another pre-Republic RPG like we did in the old days. Has there ever been an RPG about the Great Schisms?

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posted 12-26-12 09:56 PM EDT (US)     30 / 49  
But, if it's pre-Republic, how can you have suicide-bombing Ewoks?

Purveyor of the Poi | Deliverer of Desu | Weeaboo Brony Conserative - The Ultimate Foe to the Internet
Lord Sipia: "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SIPPY IS EXCLUDED! EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR SANITY" | Also Lord Sipia: "...Of course. Prepare the butter."
Hi, I'm Kongou! Are you my admiral?
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