Hi Brugle

I would be glad to see your solved "1 Granary Tarsus challenge". Not only final version but also at least 5-10 milestones saves. (To improve my gameplay and find some nice ideas and inspiration).

As for me - I don't like "1 granary challenge". I guess the best approach is to have each granary accepting only one food. It makes life in C3 much more simple and logical. If challenge - I would prefer "the same number of granaries as food types used in city". And increasing difficulty by other restrictions.

jaroslav80,
I'm still designing--it should be a few days before I start building. Eventually I expect to submit a set of progressive saves and the final city.

When I've built Tarsus before, the dock was efficient. (In my previous Tarsus it was necessary.) Marble and weapons were delivered from the rocky island to a warehouse near the dock, which was fairly close to the ship entry point.

In my 1 granary Tarsus, 2 ships per city every year will be enough. The dock is on the most southeast shore. A split block has houses near the dock and on the rocky island. (I built a split block in an old Tarsus, but this time marble and weapons will be delivered southeast instead of northwest.)

I designed the split block with 6 large insulae and the shipyard. It supports the dock area, the military, and the pottery, marble, iron, and weapons industries.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 07-18-2017 @ 01:57 PM).]

I remember your Happy Tarsus. I liked it very much. The villas was on the West and Insulaes on the SouthEast. In Tarsus I learned to build my first stable 3x3 villas.

Will there be some forced walkers in this Tarsus? Or will you achieve your goals without them?

I follow Zarquan's rules (as well as some of my own), so forced walkers are not allowed. That should have been included in my goals, so I edited the opening post.

The design of my 1 granary Tarsus is done. There are two main housing blocks, each with 33 large insulae, not too far from the granary. They support the fish, timber, furniture, and oil industries.

There is space for 14 schools and 6 academies. That should be enough--some may not be built.

All fountains are upgraded twice.


How to build the city?

One concern is labor access versus fire risk. The last time I built Tarsus, I had a few tents that lasted from the 1st year into the 4th year (when they were absorbed by houses evolving and expanding). This time, I intend to evolve all tents to at least shacks by the 2nd year (to reduce fire risk), which may cause labor access problems.

When all tiles of the eventual large insulae can be both watered and passed by market traders, at least 3/4 of the vacant lots can be placed at any time, and labor access will probably be fine. The applies to the rocky island, where all tiles of the eventual 3 large insulae can be both watered and fed, so 10 of the 12 vacant lots can be placed early.

However, almost all of the eventual large insulae that provide labor access to the fish, timber, furniture, and oil industies are watered in only 1 or 2 tiles. With the limited houses, I expect some industries to occasionally lose labor access. (I won't use future knowledge, but if I knew which locations for large insulae would allow four 1x1 small tents to merge, I could form 2x2 tents in those locations and get better labor access.)

The vacant lots have to be placed so that large insulae form in the right locations. There are two ways to place a few more critical vacant lots. There are some locations with trees, which I will use to prevent large insulae from forming in the wrong places. Otherwise, desirability can be carefully controlled (so only certain medium insulae have enough to evolve), which I expect to use a little on the mainland and perhaps on the rocky island if the initial square of four 1x1 tents merges.

Marble will be the first export industry, because it makes the most money per worker and should have good labor access.

I will try to get blessings from Neptune, Mars, and Mercury in the first year. (Since there is only 1 temple to each god, there won't be any blessings in later years.) I will delay selling marble until Dec, unless Neptune blesses the city.

The initial population will be 195, which should produce enough workers for 3 temples, a warehouse, and about 7 marble quarries. Labor will be micromanaged, so prefects and engineers will be sent out without decreasing marble production. I don't know how much money will be left--if there isn't enough, the 200-300 push will wait until marble has been sold (and if that is late in the year, the 200-300 push will occur in the 2nd year).

Time to start building!

I will try to get blessings from Neptune, Mars, and Mercury in the first year. (Since there is only 1 temple to each god, there won't be any blessings in later years.) I will delay selling marble until Dec, unless Neptune blesses the city.

Please can you explain me this paragraph? I understand there will be 5 temples and a lot of oracles in the final city. But you use also "not destroing constructed buildins" rule.

At first there will be only Neptune temple, then Neptune+Mars, then Neptune+Mars+Mercury ... and then you will add the last two temples?

I will try to get blessings from Neptune, Mars, and Mercury in the first year. (Since there is only 1 temple to each god, there won't be any blessings in later years.) I will delay selling marble until Dec, unless Neptune blesses the city.

Please can you explain me this paragraph?

A god must be Exalted to get a blessing. There are two ways to get a god Exalted. One is to have complete coverage for the people (a single staffed small temple is enough for 750 people), either not be Venus or not have fewer temples than all other gods, and to have a festival in the past year. A festival is presumed to have occurred just before the start of the mission.

I will build small temples to Neptune, Mars, and Mercury as soon as they can get labor access. It will take a little over 3 months after the temple is staffed for the god to become Exalted. Once the god is Exalted, a blessing may occur--this depends on the map. After the end of the year, it will be too long since the presumed festival, so the gods won't be Exalted and a blessing won't occur.

The other way to get a god Exalted, if it is not Venus, is to have more temples than all other gods (and to have fairly good coverage). Since I will be building only 1 temple to each god, this won't occur. (In my previous Tarsus, I used a 2nd temple to Neptune to get him Exalted and get his blessing a second time.)

A god won't have a mood worse than Displeased when the city has less than 200 people and the god is either not Venus or does not have fewer temples than all other gods. A god whose mood is Displeased or better will not collect "lightning bolts", so will not curse the city. I will build small temples to Venus and Ceres around the time that the population reaches 200.

[Changed "to get a festival" to "to get a blessing".]

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 07-21-2017 @ 02:50 PM).]

A god must be Exalted to get a festival.

... to get a blessing, I guess.

So in first step there will be temple to Neptune, Mars and Mercury, people will have perfect coverage for this 3 gods and that will be reason why all three will get a blessing?

Let say there will be one temple to each god (5 temples in total) and then Neptune and Mercury will receive another temple each of them. The jealousy effect will not work in such a case? No other god can have equal number of temples (to reach the jealousy effect)?

A god must be Exalted to get a festival.

... to get a blessing, I guess.

Oops. Thanks for correcting me. I edited reply #8.

people will have perfect coverage for this 3 gods and that will be reason why all three will get a blessing?

You might get blessings for all 3, or maybe fewer--it depends on the map. (I remember which of those blessings occur, but I play as if I didn't since I won't use future knowledge.)

Let say there will be one temple to each god (5 temples in total) and then Neptune and Mercury will receive another temple each of them. The jealousy effect will not work in such a case?

No. For the jealousy effect, the god must have more (or fewer) temples than any other god, and it doesn't work for Venus.

I decided that the 200-300 push could be done in the first year, although money will be tight if a second trade route is opened.

My C3 building skills are very rusty. After playing 4 months, I saw a house that was offset by 1 tile, so I started over. After replaying just 3 months, I realized that my vacant lot placement was bad, both in choosing which ones to place initially and the order to place them. I knew I could play better, so I stopped for a while, hoping that some rest would help my memory.

The third try was much better. I played quite slowly, frequently stopping and considering what I wanted to do in the next several months. (For the first time ever when playing at Very Hard difficulty, I did not receive the "People disgruntled" and "Emigration" messages. I did try to make the 200-300 push happen quickly--it took less than half a month, but it was pure luck that it began just after the middle of Jul.)


Tarsus starts (at Very Hard) with 0 people, Cu 0, Pr 0, Pe 0, Fa 40, and 6000 Dn.


1st Year (120 BC): The marble industry was completed. Blessings were received from Mercury (early Aug) and Neptune (early Sep). The water trade route to Miletus and the land trade route to Damascus were opened. 22 marble was sold at double price, for 6160 Db! Fishing boat construction began. The barracks, military academy, and 1st cavalry fort were built. The year ended with 440 people (in small tents), Cu 30, Pr 5, Pe 2, Fa 39, and 642 Dn.


Sorry about taking so long. Later years should be faster.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 08-02-2017 @ 01:34 PM).]

I would never be able to play your "nothing previous built deleted" rule.

Also for this reason your people must live in small tents instead of large tents. You as governor have >6000 Dn and you don't spend 5 Dn for a water-well.

The rule should be upgraded at least to "nothing built instead of wells and small statues was deleted" to make the game playable

I would never be able to play your "nothing previous built deleted" rule.

There is nothing special about my additional goals--they make the game more challenging and enjoyable for me. Play by whatever rules you enjoy.

I actually started using the "no delete" rule in Pharaoh, where some pyramids and mastabas need to create a lot of materials (which requires a large industry for a fast completion). A common technique is to build that large industry, and later (when no longer needed) delete it to provide workers to raise Prosperity and Culture. This means that a completed city may give little indication of how the monument was constructed, but the "no delete" rule makes sure that any industry is preserved.

I enjoyed playing with the "no delete" rule even when there wasn't an industry to provide monument materials, because it made me be very careful, so I sometimes used it in C3. (In several of my cities, I intended to use the rule but messed up: it could happen here.)

I thought the whole USA were built using that procedure - deleting unnecessary industry and cities .

But I understand your point. You would like to have difficulty harder. What about the unnecessary bricks industry in Pharaoh 20 years later? Did it provide material to inefficient distant monuments? Or did it just fill stockpile to maximum and then everybody was waiting? Employed but waiting. Sometimes I have the same feeling on my workplace.

I forgot to mention opening trade routes in the first year, so I edited reply #11.

I thought that evolving tents to shacks reduced fire risk, but Trium said in reply #7 of questions on fire risk, waiting time between walks, and market buyers that shacks have the same fire increase as tents. I must have read that thread, so another of my memory failures. Oh well: the shacks will evolve to hovels next year.


2nd Year (119 BC): A useless blessing was received from Ceres (early Jan). The iron industry was completed. The weapons, timber, and furniture industries began. The land trade route to Hierosolyma was opened. The 2nd cavalry fort and 1st javalin fort were built. Except for pieces of the Road to Rome, all roads were connected. The year ended with 1206 people (1006 in small hovels, 11 in a large shack, and 189 in small shacks), Cu 9, Pr 12, Pe 4, Fa 38, and 1630 Dn.

3rd Year (118 BC): The timber industry was completed. The pottery and oil industries began. The water trade route to Alexandria was opened. There was unemployment, so labor was no longer micromanaged (making development easier). The 2nd javalin fort was built. All roads were connected. The year ended with 1768 people (in small hovels), Cu 44, Pr 19, Pe 9, Fa 37, and 3772 Dn.

Nice progress.

Today I found your rule:
All houses have all education and theater coverage.

It means academy coverage for every house. Interesting.

I use the academy building usually to deal with huge unemployment.

Nice progress.

Much slower than I intended.

I use the academy building usually to deal with huge unemployment.

Since I don't collect taxes, unemployment can be high without problems.

4th Year (117 BC): Pergamum invaders were defeated. The Emperor requested 10 iron, which was stockpiled and dispatched. The 1st legionary fort was built. The year ended with 2068 people (57 in large casas, 306 in small casas, 15 in a large hovel, and 1690 in small hovels), Cu 45, Pr 26, Pe 14, Fa 44, and 9943 Dn.

Since I don't collect taxes, unemployment can be high without problems.

The zero taxes are able completly compensate the unemployment problem?

The zero taxes are able completly compensate the unemployment problem?

It works in this city.

I looked up the details in Trium's Sentiment (mood) - some numbers, and the negative effect of high unemployment (over 25%) is balanced by the positive effect of no taxes. If there are no festivals and no Venus blessings or curses, sentiment in a house is dependent on wages and whether it is a tent. Even if wages are at Rome's rate (which is neutral), having food is positive and the negative of being a tent doesn't last long. I usually pay wages over Rome's rate (to make Prosperity rise faster, just for fun), but may cut back to Rome's rate later.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 08-06-2017 @ 09:03 AM).]

5th Year (116 BC): The pottery and oil industries were completed. The hippodrome and 2nd legionary fort (last fort) were built. The year ended with 2885 people (473 in large insulae, 1020 in medium insulae, 323 in small insulae, 19 in a large casa, 68 in a small casa, 930 in large hovels, and 52 in small hovels), Cu 56, Pr 34, Pe 19, Fa 43, and 10965 Dn.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 08-07-2017 @ 04:48 PM).]

6th Year (115 BC): The Emperor requested 10 iron, which was stockpiled and dispatched. Miletus increased its clay import quota, so no pottery will be bought. Pergamum invaders were defeated. The year ended with 3737 people (1948 in large insulae, 300 in medium insulae, 171 in small insulae, and 1241 in small casas), Cu 41, Pr 39, Pe 24, Fa 42, and 12699 Dn.

Hello. I'm glad to see you are doing the one granary challenge.

Quoted from Brugle:

...For the 1 granary challenge while feeding most people, Zarquan suggested that Massilia was the most difficult (saying "It may not even be possible")...

I believe you may have misread what I wrote. I said that Massilia may be impossible if every house must be fed with one granary due to the sheer distances between the two farmlands. When I said major housing areas, I was including things like neighborhoods and excluding things like a 2x2 tent you put up in an industry to give it workers. I finished Massilia with most houses fed, but without a lot of your other rules. Massilia was certainly the hardest mission to complete.

[This message has been edited by Zarquan (edited 08-09-2017 @ 03:40 PM).]

Quoted from Zarquan:

Quoted from Brugle:

...For the 1 granary challenge while feeding most people, Zarquan suggested that Massilia was the most difficult (saying "It may not even be possible")...

I believe you may have misread what I wrote. I said that Massilia may be impossible if every house must be fed with one granary due to the sheer distances between the two farmlands.

Perhaps, but it doesn't matter: if I try the Massilia 1 granary challenge, the plan will be to feed everyone.