Excellent!!

I'm now working on the solution for flood plain farming and building monument dilemma. I think I've just about got a handle on it. A demonstration will be in order though. This may be the year of the break through!!

Thanks for sharing and all your excellent contributions.

Bee

may the year of the breakthrough be with you bee...may all brugle starage yards make impressions proud

Hey schnurbart,

Are you receiving mail? If not , send me a note and I'll respond (cause I already have!!). I'm not a troll !!!

Bee

Great idea Vaia , I can think of a couple of times when this would have been very useful.

Now you have me thinking, last night I was playing a custom mission where I was "getting" chariots from right across the map (where the only wood was) and was micromanaging turning on and off "getting" so as to have them delivered to the barracks. I never had a full 1/4 of a yard of them, but by using your method I expect I could have had them delivered to another storage yard which could then have delivered them to the barracks. Now why didn't you post this yesterday, could have saved me time last night

Merepatra,

What you are talking about with chariots is a BSY (Brugle Storage Yard.) That’s old news. (Been around for almost a month. ) It’s your own fault that you lost sleep over that one.

My discovery was that you could get the Storage Yard cart pushers to deliver food directly to a Granary.

Yes you are right of course . My problem was in not reading Brugles post correctly the first time . It sure should be stuck in my mind now

VitruviusAIA,

This is an excellent discovery--in my opinion, more important than simply increasing distribution efficiency. It neatly solves a problem (supplying non-imported food to an area that is disconnected from local food sources) that everyone previously thought needed micromanagement (which I consider repulsive in a finished city).

Just one suggestion. I'd expect the "getting" storage yard to (at least part of the time) "get" food from the "accepting" granary instead of the "accepting" storage yard. That could be prevented by setting the granary to "get" food.

Merepatra,
I don't think the BSY would work as well getting weapons and chariots as it would getting the raw materials for them. This is because cart pushers will get 4(00) copper or wood but only 1 weapon or chariot at a time. So, in the case of wood 'way over there' and recruiter 'here', build the chariot maker near the recruiter and use the BSY to go get the wood.

Vitruvius,
I've been trying something like the VSY for months, but it didn't work for me as well as you describe. But then, my "getting" SY wasn't a BSY (which hadn't been invented yet). My cart pushers would put the food in the granary, then take it back out, then put it back in ....

I'm sure now that my problem was that the 'receiving SY' was quite a way away from the 'getting SY', rather than next to it. While SY cart getters will go all the way across the map to get a non-food item from a disconnected SY, there is a limit to how far they'll go to get food from a disconnected SY.

I don't know if this is true about a connected SY, but it's almost irrelevant, since SY getters prefer to get food from a granary (if it's connected by road) before from another SY. More than once, I've accidentally emptied a granary in this way.

I've even seen SY getters do the 'blink' thing when instructed to get food and they sensed food in a disconnected granary which was much closer than a connected SY with food in it.

............
DAMN! it was a BSY (just full of several 'active' goods, rather than one 'inert' good). I realize now that I was trying to use a BSY without realizing it or realizing the significance of how they work.

...........

Another odd thing about food and SY:
As we all know, bazar buyers won't buy a non-importable food item from a SY ... except in some cases they will. I've seen them buy the non-importable food if it was in the same SY as an importable food (whether set to actually import or just to 'import 0') and they were instructed to buy both.

Brugle,

I would never have considered trying this if it wasn’t for you post. What made me think that it might work was when you discovered that a SY filled with “filler” goods and set to get something else would deliver the goods directly to the industries.

I wondered if the same thing might happen with food, since the only place that they could possibly deliver it was to a Granary. What I really expected to happen was that the cart pushers would become “stuck” beside the SY. When I set up the experiment, and saw the first load of grain delivered to the Granary, I actually shouted “YES” with joy. (My wife thought that I had finally gone crazy.)

I did check to see if it would still work if the Granary was set to “get” instead of “accept”, and it does. I didn’t think that it made a difference. I didn’t know that a “getting” SY would get food out of a Granary. I’m still learning.

[This message has been edited by VitruviusAIA (edited 07-11-2001 @ 02:53 PM).]

Ilion,

Your observation, that bazaar buyers will get multiple foods from a storage yard when only one of them is imported, is interesting. When conditions are right (spacious residences or better also eating imported food), it could be quite useful. Yesterday I thought that there was no non-micromanaging way to supply non-imported food to an area that is not connected to local food sources, and now I know two ways!

I've seen various problems caused by a cart pusher trying to "get" food from an "accepting" granary. (The first time was at Saqqara--2 "accepting" game granaries were near hunting lodges, and a disconnected third granary was supposed to "get" game from a distant storage yard near a third set of hunting lodges, but the "getting" granary cart pusher just 'blinked' since it wanted to go to the other granaries.) Most of the time the solution is easy: just set the "accepting" granaries to "getting". (In Saqqara, that cured the problem--it caused cart pushers from the 2 granaries near hunting lodges to 'blink', but they didn't have anything else to do.)

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 07-11-2001 @ 04:05 PM).]

Vitruvious,
When I tried this basic concept (in primative form, since the BSY didn't exist), setting the granary to "get" did help keep the SY getters from robbing the granary they'd just put food into. But overall, I still ended up micro-managing the process. Obviously, I'll want to get the VSY/G combo working in my cities.

Brugle,
I've seen bazzar buyers buying local-only food from a storage yard many times. But since it was always a curiosity, I didn't study it in depth. It's *possible* that they'll do this if the SY also has an imported good, besides the local-only food. I'm not sure.

I do think they'll only do this if their stocks of the imported food are low, which means that the trigger to buy the imported food accidentally triggers buying the local-only food.

If buyers from two bazzars both set out to buy the imported food (and, due to this 'bug') and local-only food from a SY, one will get there first. Even if she buys all the imported food from that SY, the second buyer will still buy the local-only food. This would be because her orders were set when she left the bazzar.

.....
I think Vitruvius' method would work more efficiently for supplying food to a village (that's what I call the non-connected portions of my cities). While my observation might work in a pinch to keep an area from devolving, to rely on it would probably involve micro-management.

In my test I never encountered a problem with the Granary set to “accept”. This is probably because the VSY was full of clay, and the chart pushers had no place to deliver grain to. Therefore, they didn’t “rob” the Granary.

But, as I said, the setup also works with the Granary set to “get”. Why tempt fate? Setting the Granary to “get”, as Brugle suggested, would be safer.

Ilion,

I really like the nomenclature “village” that you use for the non-connected portions of your cities. I have always built fully connected cities in the past because I felt that it was a more realistic approach. (A “real” city wouldn’t function if its dock area was separated from the industrial area, which was not connected to the housing areas.) Buy thinking of these different areas as “villages” makes me more inclined to use this technique.

I have really been looking for an “excuse” to allow non-connected portions of my cities. I can now do so because you have given me the rationalization that I needed.

Thank you. Designing cities (with villages) will be much easier than the way I was doing it.

Besides, it would be a shame to have discovered the VSY, and never be able to use it.

[This message has been edited by VitruviusAIA (edited 07-11-2001 @ 06:41 PM).]

hello cartouche bee,
yeah i recieve mail no problem...never thought you were a troll tho they can not all be bad..even tom wanted to "let the little bliter go"...lol..the quote from the hobbit

Vitruvius,
I used to think of housing blocks as 'neighborhoods' until I discovered this site and learned the generally used term.
At first I tended to build fully connected cities, but I got tired of seeing a SY deliver papyrus to a school clear across town while the SY near the school just sat there. After I learned that SY getters will go cross-country, I began trying to learn ways to use that to my advantage.
Recently, I've been building cities made of villages, with a village being made of 3 to 6 housing blocks and their support structures.
I think as I get better (and this site is a big help), I'll work towards building integrated cities ... or at least the housing portions.

Anyway, I'm glad to have furnished you the rationalization you needed.

Vitruvius, that is absolute [edit] genius

[edit] by request: please do not attempt to circumvent the word filters

[This message has been edited by ET FLAVIUS (edited 07-13-2001 @ 05:44 AM).]

VitruviusAIA,

glad to see it worked out

Last night, the first time I tried your idea the cartpushers would deliver the food to the granary. Then instantly they would rob it back but there was no space for it anywhere else so they put it back in the granary again. This would go on until a bazaar buyer would arrive and take the food out of the granary and the cart-pushers would go off to collect more. Help

Pepperses I,

I haven’t had this problem (for whatever reason) but others have. The reported solution is simple. Set the Granary to “Get” instead of “Accept”. Storage Yard deliveries will still be made to the Granary, and it should stop the “robberies”.

VAIA

Greetings!

The cart pushers will always gather from the closest available source. So, to get this to work the granary need to be farther away from the VSY than the source which you want the VSY to retrieve from.

Hope this helps.

Cartouche Bee

Hi VAIA,

I think you will find that cart pushers will steal from granaries, regardless.

CB

I don't think I was to clear on my last post. If a granary is set to get a food, and a storage yard is set to get the same type of food, the storage yard will take that food from the granary if it is the closest source. The granary order to get food, does not over rule the storage yards order to get food.

It would seem to me that the granary order should be of a higher priority than the storage yard since the building is more valuable. IMHO.

CB

Well, this may have been obvious to others attempting to use a VaiaSY to supply raw materials to an industry or to supply food to a granary, but it wasn't obvious to me, so I'll post it anyway.

It's important to get the SY in question filled with whatever the filler-good is /before/ setting it to get the food/raw material. Otherwise, confusion ensues, and you'll end up with a mess.

Hi Everyone
I know this is a relatively old thread, but I was just curious as to people's recent experiences with the Vaia storage yard. I've not used it myself before but it seems an excellent discovery. Due to a blunder on my part (which I won't go into now) it looks like this could be the solution to help me out. However I will have spent several more hours building before I get to the point of actually putting this mechanism into place at which point it will be hard to turn back. Just wondered if anyone had uncovered any other useful info which I should be aware of.

Thanks

This distribution system works well for dellivery to service facillities and industries as well.
I tend to consentrate all my industies in the dock aerea,which is disconnected.That`s allso where I usually have my brick works.
Now,bricks need straw from the flood plains,and that`s allways been a dilemma to me.
The solution with the Vaia-system is:
Have one SY "outside" the industrie block accepting straw(does`nt even have to be close),and a SY inside filled with, whatever you don`t use.
The cart pushers will delliver straight to the brick works,filling first one,then moveing to the next.
Tested it for 12 brick works,and they never,even remotely,ran out of straw.Now sign of delliverers getting stuck either.

Same can be done with flax,barely,and "outside" clay pits.

I`ve allso tryed this with distribution of goods,such as linnen,wich my mortuaries allway run out of.
Have one SY set to get all.Then a filler yard set to get linnen.
This yard will first of all help fillig the other yard,and then start helping with the distribution.
It is somewhat expensive in terms of extra laberors needed,it takes up maybee,well needed space,and there`s the initial cost for placeing it.But I find it worth while in certain missions.

My first post here by the way...
This forum is like a shrine to the game of all games;Pharaoh.

All,
I don't know why (I generally read everything in this forum), but 2 years ago I missed Cartouche Bee's error in replies #19, #20, and #21. (VitruviusAIA's reply in reply #18 is correct.) A storage yard (or granary) will not send its cart pusher to get a food from a granary (or storage yard) that is set to get that food. (A cart pusher that is already on his way to get a food from a granary will do so even if the granary's special orders are changed to get that food.)